Tough Love?
astrose00
Posts: 754 Member
This post is just to make a general observation. I've been on here for about 2 months now. Enjoying my weight loss journey. I stay motivated by reading posts of successes and lessons learned.
I've noticed there are a ton of posts on here from people who "beat themselves up" about cheating or lamenting about their lack of willpower or consistency. The vast majority of the replies/comments are what I would consider to be enabling and/or coddling. I just don't see how that's helpful. I'm not advocating that people should be harsh or rude. But for the many of us who need to lose weight or get healthy, I don't think minimizing or treating people with kid gloves is worth the whitespace taken up with the comments. Most of the time I don't say anything and just move on to the next post as quickly as I can. I just can't take the pity-party mentality of these posts. I understand some people have emotional issues (in fact, I worked as a social worker for several years). But aside from deep rooted issues that should be addressed in therapy, I think people need to empower themselves and stop looking for pity or a "pass" when they slip up. Sure, don't beat yourself up and get back on the horse. But all that "I feel so bad because I ate an entire 10lb red velvet cake and I hate myself" stuff is pretty lame. I say, if you are gonna do it then own it. Then make better decisions if you are truly committed to getting healthier. But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
I've noticed there are a ton of posts on here from people who "beat themselves up" about cheating or lamenting about their lack of willpower or consistency. The vast majority of the replies/comments are what I would consider to be enabling and/or coddling. I just don't see how that's helpful. I'm not advocating that people should be harsh or rude. But for the many of us who need to lose weight or get healthy, I don't think minimizing or treating people with kid gloves is worth the whitespace taken up with the comments. Most of the time I don't say anything and just move on to the next post as quickly as I can. I just can't take the pity-party mentality of these posts. I understand some people have emotional issues (in fact, I worked as a social worker for several years). But aside from deep rooted issues that should be addressed in therapy, I think people need to empower themselves and stop looking for pity or a "pass" when they slip up. Sure, don't beat yourself up and get back on the horse. But all that "I feel so bad because I ate an entire 10lb red velvet cake and I hate myself" stuff is pretty lame. I say, if you are gonna do it then own it. Then make better decisions if you are truly committed to getting healthier. But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
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Replies
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My thoughts?
1) You probably shouldn't say 'tough love' when there's no love involved
2) Maybe MFP should rename this forum "Shame and Disdain" to be more reflective of your opinion?0 -
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This is the "support" section, so you'll probably find a lot of people offering support.This post is just to make a general observation. I've been on here for about 2 months now. Enjoying my weight loss journey. I stay motivated by reading posts of successes and lessons learned.
I've noticed there are a ton of posts on here from people who "beat themselves up" about cheating or lamenting about their lack of willpower or consistency. The vast majority of the replies/comments are what I would consider to be enabling and/or coddling. I just don't see how that's helpful. I'm not advocating that people should be harsh or rude. But for the many of us who need to lose weight or get healthy, I don't think minimizing or treating people with kid gloves is worth the whitespace taken up with the comments. Most of the time I don't say anything and just move on to the next post as quickly as I can. I just can't take the pity-party mentality of these posts. I understand some people have emotional issues (in fact, I worked as a social worker for several years). But aside from deep rooted issues that should be addressed in therapy, I think people need to empower themselves and stop looking for pity or a "pass" when they slip up. Sure, don't beat yourself up and get back on the horse. But all that "I feel so bad because I ate an entire 10lb red velvet cake and I hate myself" stuff is pretty lame. I say, if you are gonna do it then own it. Then make better decisions if you are truly committed to getting healthier. But acting like a victim or someone who doesn't know why they keep cheating and they feel soooo bad? Ugh.
Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
If it offends you to the point of having to start a thread to complain about all the support, maybe read another section?
There are many threads going on right now that have the sole purpose of making fun of unhappy and/or weak people. Maybe check one out.
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Are we on the same forum? I think there are people more than willing to tell you the truth even if it seems harsh. Not that it is a bad thing. I just don't see the coddling.0
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This is an interesting twist on the usual Friday mean people thread. Usually people complain about too much tough love around here. I'm curious to see if the coddlers come out to defend themselves the same way that us meanies usually do on the other threads.0
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diannethegeek wrote: »This is an interesting twist on the usual Friday mean people thread. Usually people complain about too much tough love around here. I'm curious to see if the coddlers come out to defend themselves the same way that us meanies usually do on the other threads.
Well I kinda thought Herrspoons already did that with the list of How You're A Failure And Don't Belong Here - I suspect the OP was trying to ride those coattails and get some positive attention from the popular clique there.
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If I hurt someone, I apologize. I don't defend it. I say that I'm sorry. I don't actually want to hurt people.diannethegeek wrote: »This is an interesting twist on the usual Friday mean people thread. Usually people complain about too much tough love around here. I'm curious to see if the coddlers come out to defend themselves the same way that us meanies usually do on the other threads.
If I ever manage to actually provide support (unlikely!), I won't be ashamed of it nor will I feel any need to "defend" myself against an accusation of kindness.
I should try to be nicer. If I succeed, yay me.
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Enabling isn't the same thing as support. I see a lot of coddling here. It doesn't work in the real world and I doubt it works on here. If you are offended by what I've written or disagree... okay.-3
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Enabling a poor relationship with food is not helpful either. Equating food with guilt or shame is a very poor, unsustainable and stressful way to lose weight. Developing a positive relationship with food means not feeling guilt or shame when you eat, even if you decide to eat something less than optimal for health, because good health is not the only purpose of eating food. A great deal of pleasure and community can be had from food without the guilt or shame, and without overeating.0
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Enabling isn't the same thing as support. I see a lot of coddling here. It doesn't work in the real world and I doubt it works on here. If you are offended by what I've written or disagree... okay.
I am not offended and I don't disagree that enabling and support are different things. I just honestly have no idea what you are talking about....okay0 -
I don't think I've ever seen a "People aren't mean enough" thread!0
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Please be careful when posting an opinion unpopular to the tender coddling crowd. As this is the main demographic of MFP, those of us that have different methods of supporting, encouraging and sharing knowledge, are always under fire. The fact that your post was flagged as an attack solidifies this.
If you are a member of the tough love crowd, I suggest being as covert as possible and trying to fly under the radar so you can actually help others without the kind ones forming an angry mob to have you removed from the site. I lack this ability, but Im blunt and I don't want anyone telling me to forgive myself for binging because getting healthy doesn't work that way. It ISNT a new day and all the crap I ate yesterday instead of working out - is going to affect me all week. It isn't over when I close my eyes and my diary and that kind of thinking isn't going to help anyone.
anyway Im rambling now, although - yes I am in agreement.
I think that ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE and ALL PERSONALITIES deserve to find their most effective brand of support - not just the hand-holdy type that only works for some people.-1 -
hand-holdy support makes me stabby :P - if i mess up and someone says there there it's okay, I feel like - oh well I guess they expected me to fail anyway. jerk.0
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Eh, there's a middle ground many of us take. I always try to help with kindness (not tenderness), and if that doesn't work, I usually get firmer/tougher (or walk away). I rarely respond to the threads about willpower or "cheat" days, because they tend to irritate me.
Many people on here are just looking for a*spats, but many people on here are looking for targets. Neither approach is helpful.0 -
yoovie, seems like we are on the same page. I have tough skin, no worries. I asked for people's opinion and they gave them. We can agree to disagree. I didn't realize my post was flagged, that's a shame. Because when someone really does attack someone, it won't be taken seriously. That's the "I'm okay, you're okay" world we live in.
Personally, if I screw up, I want to be called on it if I'm acting like a victim. I would never flock to a message board to look for some stranger to tell me that binging or being inconsistent is OK. It's actually not OK. No one would tell someone it's okay to show up for work on an off, to go to the doctor on an off, to parent on and off. Eating well and being active is the key to a healthy lifestyle. If someone has a problem with control when it comes to junk food, like I do, I think the best method is to be strong and refrain. Sure, you can't beat yourself up but you need to be serious and committed. No one can do that for you and no one can erase the 5,000 calories someone just ate.
I have read the posts of successful losers very carefully. The message that rings loud and clear is that there must be consistency. None of them say it's easy. None of them are making excuses.-2 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »Eh, there's a middle ground many of us take. I always try to help with kindness (not tenderness), and if that doesn't work, I usually get firmer/tougher (or walk away). I rarely respond to the threads about willpower or "cheat" days, because they tend to irritate me.
Many people on here are just looking for a*spats, but many people on here are looking for targets. Neither approach is helpful.
Hi, TheVirgoGoddess (great name!). I, too, take the middle ground on this site because I want to avoid conflict and flags (oh, well!). My middle ground is to just say nothing because I can't bring myself to candy-coat things. I posted my comment to see what others thought, not looking for people to agree or disagree. Just wondered what other people's views were. I'm not surprised by the backlash but was surprised that, until now, no one else seemed to notice the coddling.
I think I saw your before and after pictures. If it was you then congrats on your transformation. You look great!-1 -
i kinda love you.0
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...and I see your post has been flagged twice. By coddlers no doubt. Oh and Hai yoovie
She is most certainly not one who coddles.
Pity parties got us into this trouble, they will not get us out. I used to be a pity party attendee, but thanks to those who shall be uncoddled and who called me on my bullcrap, I got over that shiz. I'm not where I want to be, and still need work on things (early morning pre-work workouts suck donkey balls)...but I AM better and stronger and hotter and did a Spartan Super when a year ago I though there was nowayinhellIcoulddosuchathing.
Keep up the hard work honey, it will pay off. Over time. And without hypnosis, ketones, or other Dr Oz type snake oils.
ETA I see yoovie got flagged too. For being honest? Stop that.
ETA v.2 Yeah! I got a flag! Not sure why but...wait...ZFG. -1 -
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diannethegeek wrote: »This is an interesting twist on the usual Friday mean people thread. Usually people complain about too much tough love around here. I'm curious to see if the coddlers come out to defend themselves the same way that us meanies usually do on the other threads.
Well I kinda thought Herrspoons already did that with the list of How You're A Failure And Don't Belong Here - I suspect the OP was trying to ride those coattails and get some positive attention from the popular clique there.
I also have no idea what this is referring to.
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If I hurt someone, I apologize. I don't defend it. I say that I'm sorry. I don't actually want to hurt people.diannethegeek wrote: »This is an interesting twist on the usual Friday mean people thread. Usually people complain about too much tough love around here. I'm curious to see if the coddlers come out to defend themselves the same way that us meanies usually do on the other threads.
If I ever manage to actually provide support (unlikely!), I won't be ashamed of it nor will I feel any need to "defend" myself against an accusation of kindness.
I should try to be nicer. If I succeed, yay me.
I dont think you hurt anyone. I think the point is that everyone needs a different brand of support, and generic won't help everyone - in fact sometimes it works against you! The good news is that there are people on this site that recognize that and there are tons of different 'brands' of support to chose from - it's just that certain groups try to enforce their personalities on every one else and it sometimes backfires.
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My thoughts?
1) You probably shouldn't say 'tough love' when there's no love involved
2) Maybe MFP should rename this forum "Shame and Disdain" to be more reflective of your opinion?
I use tough love on my own friends. If i didn't care i wouldn't say anything - so I wouldnt say there was no love.
For me to say every time, eh it's okay, you'll do better next time - that's how you know i don't care.
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I guess I feel that as adults, most of us know what has to be done to be successful. I feel that if you can not say anything nice, don't say anything at all, let them find their way. If you are honest with yourself, you know what you are doing wrong. Criticism is often (not always) counter productive. There are plenty of people here that are willing to tell us what we are doing wrong, not really knowing anything about us or our lives. I found my way, as have countless others, but for some, it is very difficult. For many of us, positive support works better. We are not all alike.0
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Wow, all these flags... I've created two other posts in the past asking for information. Nothing controversial, just asking for people's input about calories and bodyfat. I basically got NO responses. I guess they weren't juicy enough. Even this post got zero traction for the first several days. Now all of a sudden there's a lynch mob.
I think it's time for this thread to say night-night. The views are polar, people are "angry" and flagging everybody. It's anarchy!0 -
Are we on the same forum? I think there are people more than willing to tell you the truth even if it seems harsh. Not that it is a bad thing. I just don't see the coddling.
different behavior in different sections of the forums. I only go in the exercise and motivation sections, mostly because of those reasons. I go where I feel they may need some balance.
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Anyway, just my opinion. I welcome others' thoughts.
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That is the old and very tired model of dieting which involves very old and tired ideas including deprivation, restriction but also guilt, shame, willpower, motivation and that old chestnut tough "love".
I think we should try a different approach which does not involve bias or negativity. It couldn't prove to be any worse I think...
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lol - i often see people being unnecessarily harsh on mfp, usually where people aren't educated and are trying to understand something that to the more experienced MFPer is very basic. (im pretty new here myself so am still learning all the time)
That said, at the start of my weight loss journey, it was my boss that gave me a bit of tough love... he said my weight was down to me, and my lack of progress in getting it down was all because of the excuses i was making... Excuses! I thought (and fumed) about it for awhile, and eventually realised that he was dead right.. I was making excuses and was my fault!
Ive now lost 17% body weight and fully believe I needed the tough love to get me fired into action in the first place.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »...there's a middle ground many of us take. I always try to help with kindness (not tenderness), and if that doesn't work, I usually get firmer/tougher (or walk away)....
So much ^^THIS^^ that it hurts, son!
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I would also like to add that I do not believe that people should be effectively lied to simply in order to make them feel better. I don't think that helps anyone.
That said the OP, quite rightly, references consistency. I think it is more likely that more people will stay the course if, when they hit a bump in the road, that they are sympathised with to get past the internal conflict than lectured.
So for a person who has binged for example saying "that sucks, it is hard but I am sure tomorrow will be better if you just keep going" will probably secure a better outcome than "you have to want it. No more excuses." It is essentially the same message but delivered in a different way.
And of course, people are different. It is undoubtedly true that some people react well to the tough love approach. My opinion is that they are the minority and as such it shouldn't be the default position.0
This discussion has been closed.
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