To Keto, Or Not To Keto: That is the question.

miamouse3

What are your experiences with Keto? What are your experiences with LCHF diets/lifestyles? Has it worked for you? Did you enjoy it? Was there any noticeable difference for you compared to other dietary changes/restrictions?

About Me:
23 F W: 250 H: 5'4'' 45% BF BMI 42 BMR 1871kcal TOTAL EXP: 2572kcal

• Known Medical Conditions:

Bicuspid Aortic Heart Defect
Bipolar Disorder (with anxiety)
Scoliosis (slight, not severe or limiting)

• Current medications:

Ativan used only as needed (i.e. panic attacks, serious anxiety)

I have previously followed calorie recommendations from here, used to work out 5 days a week for 1-2 hours mostly cardio, and ate a diet of half produce, mostly lean proteins, and plenty of good carbs (whole grains, raw oats, etc). Have seen no actual result on this, only slight fluctuations by a couple pounds over and under my current weight.

YES, I have a scale (BOTH)
YES, I spoke to a trainer
YES, I've seen a doctor about my weight issues with little result, as apparently I have to be lying about something. Haven't seen one in 1 year, though I have gone about my weight along with various issues that continue to be a problem and was shrugged off, even with switching doctors. My BP is in a good and healthy range, I have no issues with cholesterol, and I've never had an issue with high blood sugar. Sometimes its low. There is a history of both hypoglycemia (mother) and diabetes (grandmother (mom's side) and grandfather (dad's side)).

NO, I am not looking for a medical opinion, so I will ignore any posts treating me like an idiot and telling me to see a doctor. I am looking for genuine experiences, results, and advice. If you can't offer this, and aren't seeking similar answers or answering with anything about Keto, don't comment. Its unnecessary, redundant, and exhausting.
NO, conventional/traditional methods will not work. Clearly, since despite having a very healthy lifestyle for a minimum of a decade I just continue to gain.

If you wonder why I am to the point and may come off as rude, its because while there are genuinely amazing people on here, there are also a dozen obnoxious people for each one (or so my experience has been- and I have seen it on more than my posts. For a group of people all going through relatively similar struggles, you really know how to bully people) and I am tired of listening to you all echo the same things in varying tones of condescension.

And to all of the wonderful people who made it through this post and can offer me information, thank you thank you thank you thank you! I appreciate you, and you are amazing.

Thank you

ndj1979

If you are not losing right now, then you are not eating in a calorie deficit. So if you do keto and continue to eat above maintenance you will not lose weight. All Keto is, is another method/strategy/etc to create said calorie deficit. I would personally rather enjoy all the food groups and lose weight, rather then restricting an entire food group because someone deems it "bad"…..

how many calories a day to do you consume?
do you weigh/log/measure everything bit of food?
can you open your food diary?

Wheelhouse15

OP, I would really caution you against releasing such detailed medical information online.

kgeyser

If you really do have a healthy lifestyle, have been eating in a deficit and have not been seeing weight loss, then the only course of action really is to see a doctor.

LCHF doesn't cause weight loss unless you are in a deficit, so if you're already in a deficit and not seeing any loss, a change in diet isn't going to do much. LCHF has been a good choice for people with thyroid issues or PCOS, but again, you would need a doctor to diagnose and treat. I don't know of anyone on MFP with either of those conditions who is not on some form of medication to regulate the hormones along with a LCHF diet for weight loss.

cajuntank

You are putting people in a catch-22 of sorts as you are offering very serious medical and clinical conditions, yet are stating that if someone defers you to a medical professional, you will be offended.

So I will offer an opinion thusly as if there are no pre-existing medical conditions to take into account. Keto or not to Keto is moot in regards to weightloss. Overall caloric intake vs caloric output is all that matters. If you choose to follow Keto as the protocol of eating due to it initially creating the caloric deficit by negating food groups and you can personally adhere to it, then that's the protocol you need to follow. If you personally cannot adhere to that protocol of eating long term, then no...it's not the protocol you need to do. Keto or low carb, etc... does not do anything special for weightloss. You are substituting one macronutrient for another, but in the end it's calories in vs calories out that dictate weight loss or weight gain. So if your maintenance is 2000 calories (just using an arbitrary number) and you eat 30g of carbs (120 calories) and 2000 calories of protein and fat, you will gain weight (even though you are low carb). That's why I keep referring to Keto or low carb as a protocol (way to eat). It initially creates a caloric deficit because it negates a lot of caloricaly dense foods you are probably overeating already and gets you eating more protein and fat which are satiating (feeling full). But at some point in time, you will have to start counting calories when you stop losing as you will then be at your new maintenance and have to eat even less to keep losing. So it again boils down to personal adherence on which protocol you can follow long term...Low carb, balanced diet (IIFYM), Paleo, etc...

All that being said. I would be remiss if I did not point out that there are of course medical reasons for going on a low carb diet that you need to discuss with a Dr. (maybe someone who specializes in medical nutrition and not just a G.P. or some other specialty outside of nutrition). Sorry if that offends.

miamouse3

ndj1979 wrote: »

If you are not losing right now, then you are not eating in a calorie deficit. So if you do keto and continue to eat above maintenance you will not lose weight. All Keto is, is another method/strategy/etc to create said calorie deficit. I would personally rather enjoy all the food groups and lose weight, rather then restricting an entire food group because someone deems it "bad"…..

how many calories a day to do you consume?
do you weigh/log/measure everything bit of food?
can you open your food diary?

Did you read the post? I put in my info and I let MFP do the calculations. When I was sedentary, I ate about 1,200. When I got a job where I spend much of my night cleaning, I switched to lightly active and it told me to eat 1,600. There is a definite deficit. Again, I'm not an idiot. There was more than a 20% deficit. I had a 1000 calorie deficit for a very long time. I shortened it to 500 incase I was going too low or something, and I even did some stupid rotation my trainer suggested of going 1800 two weeks, 1700 two weeks, continued til I got to 1400 and holding there before cycling back up. I've been doing all the conventional tricks of the trade for years.

Please read the post next time.

By the way, Keto is about getting your body to use fat instead of glucose, and the less carbs and glucose you have the less insulin you produce and its a long story. I suggest you go look it up since you are commenting on it without knowing.

Carbs are okay, its called eating LESS carbs, which is fine. I would rather eat more cheese and less pasta. I would rather get to actually put butter in my food and use mushrooms in place of bread. If I didn't think I could live without carbs, I wouldn't consider it.

miamouse3

Wheelhouse15 wrote: »

OP, I would really caution you against releasing such detailed medical information online.

There are millions of people with the same medical stats as me. None of this information enables Identity theft, and good luck if they want it to commit insurance fraud because mine sucks hardcore. I have huge medical debts. If someone wanted to use my information, they aren't going to have a jolly good time with it.

ndj1979

miamouse3 wrote: »

ndj1979 wrote: »

If you are not losing right now, then you are not eating in a calorie deficit. So if you do keto and continue to eat above maintenance you will not lose weight. All Keto is, is another method/strategy/etc to create said calorie deficit. I would personally rather enjoy all the food groups and lose weight, rather then restricting an entire food group because someone deems it "bad"…..

how many calories a day to do you consume?
do you weigh/log/measure everything bit of food?
can you open your food diary?

Did you read the post? I put in my info and I let MFP do the calculations. When I was sedentary, I ate about 1,200. When I got a job where I spend much of my night cleaning, I switched to lightly active and it told me to eat 1,600. There is a definite deficit. Again, I'm not an idiot. There was more than a 20% deficit. I had a 1000 calorie deficit for a very long time. I shortened it to 500 incase I was going too low or something, and I even did some stupid rotation my trainer suggested of going 1800 two weeks, 1700 two weeks, continued til I got to 1400 and holding there before cycling back up. I've been doing all the conventional tricks of the trade for years.

Please read the post next time.

By the way, Keto is about getting your body to use fat instead of glucose, and the less carbs and glucose you have the less insulin you produce and its a long story. I suggest you go look it up since you are commenting on it without knowing.

Carbs are okay, its called eating LESS carbs, which is fine. I would rather eat more cheese and less pasta. I would rather get to actually put butter in my food and use mushrooms in place of bread. If I didn't think I could live without carbs, I wouldn't consider it.

As you already know everything, then I have nothing else to add.

Again, all Keto does is create a calorie deficit. At the end of the day, you are burning fat, because you have an energy deficit.

Are you trying to tell me that you can eat over maintenance calories, do Keto, and lose weight?

But again, you already know everything so good luck in your journey..

MelRC117

I eat LCHF...I guess you could say I'm a keto eater.

Its a way to get you to a calorie deficit. You get more full on fat and protein, eating less, which gets you to a calorie deficit.

BTW your body "burns fat" when you eat in a calorie deficit.

I tried many times to eat low calorie, but I thought about food too much or didn't eat very nutrious. Eating low carb allowed took out an area where I couldn't control myself. It is easier for me to eat NO ice cream than a reasonable serving. Will I get to low calorie and get to a more traditional ratio of calorie intake? Maybe. I feel like I have more energy eating low carb, high fat, mod protein and I think about food less.

miamouse3

kgeyser wrote: »

If you really do have a healthy lifestyle, have been eating in a deficit and have not been seeing weight loss, then the only course of action really is to see a doctor.

LCHF doesn't cause weight loss unless you are in a deficit, so if you're already in a deficit and not seeing any loss, a change in diet isn't going to do much. LCHF has been a good choice for people with thyroid issues or PCOS, but again, you would need a doctor to diagnose and treat. I don't know of anyone on MFP with either of those conditions who is not on some form of medication to regulate the hormones along with a LCHF diet for weight loss.

My doctors suspected Thyroid and PCOS, but the blood test results didn't show a yes. I was advised by someone on here to ask for a different test that was more accurate, I have it written down somewhere, but I can't get to a doctor right now because I work full time and the nearest physicians office that accepts my insurance is 1 hour and 45 minutes away on a good traffic day. I will go as soon as I can, but for right now I really can't go wrong with trying something new that could help since I am not getting any better doing what I already am. Its not a crash diet, so really there isn't any harm in giving it a go as long as I do it right.
Again, I was asking for people's experiences. I listed my stats because if anyone who has any similar stats and has tried keto sees this maybe they can tell me how it worked out.
The ASBP often recommends LCHF diets. I have seen a lot of posts on the keto board on reddit where people saw little to no result on other diets, switched to this, and saw change.

I also read about how low carb diets have shown improvements for people in epilepsy. Following keto and similar diets reduced the number of seizures they were having due to the way the diet change affected certain processes. The reaction was similar to results seen on depakote. In theory, epilepsy and bipolar share similarities, and both are controlled with seizure medications like depakote. These medications help make seizures and episodes less frequent. I have been treated with seizure medication in the past. I am not currently on any because I can't see a doctor right now. There aren't enough case studies done on bipolar patients, other than a couple bipolar women with similar issues as mine voluntarily underwent the lifestyle change and saw improvement physically and mentally. Because there isn't a wider grouping and more variables, this isn't a confirmation but it does suggest that theoretically it could be affective in therapies for bipolar patients.

So I do have medical reasoning to want to try it. I will see a doctor when I can. Right now I can't. I'm working on repairing that situation but it is incredibly tiring to hear that over and over when I am doing everything I can right now to have the ability or coverage to see one. its like rubbing salt in the wound. So I would greatly appreciate it if the doctor issue was dropped.

Bukawww

There are only two solutions to your problem available.

1. You are not actually burning more than you are consuming
2. There is a medical issue that needs to be addressed by a medical professional.


There are no other options. Really. If you are a human being with human being parts and physiology, science is science. I am a little concerned that you state you have Bipolar but don't seem to be medicated for that. I also think its crap that you feel ok being rude while also asking for help, but qualifying that you only want help that doesn't exist...and then getting upset when the help offered doesn't fit into your parameters.

PrizePopple

Go talk to your doctor. You have medical conditions that need to be managed properly and not by a bunch of people online. We are not qualified to help you manage your illnesses.

baconslave

I do keto. And have done many other diets. What distinguishes keto from other diets are a couple things. It causes your body to burn ketones for fuel instead of glycogen. It often helps with insulin response and in other ways with other medical conditions. It often helps some people with carb cravings, even to the point of eliminating them for some. It forces portion control for those with serious moderation issues. I have chronic fatigue with some pain and it has helped with that tremendously. The nature of the foods cause you to be satisfied with less food.

How is it not different? You are still required to keep a calorie deficit. All weight loss requires calorie deficit.

I have found personally that I lose weight faster with keto (though that might be because it is easier for me to sustain and to eat fewer calories). I have more energy. The joint pain is gone. My pervasive depression, not helped by meds, is gone. My chronic fatigue is diminished, and I don't want starchy carbs any more.

I suggest you have a look at the Keto group here and browse through the old posts. You will probably find many answers there. You can even join and ask us questions. You could lurk around the Keto Redditt site. They have a great FAQ.

Keto isn't for everyone. But if you like eating the foods allowed, then it may help you. And don't mind less carbs, which you said is fine with you. I would suggest reading up and then, if it seems doable, try it for a month. If after that time, there are no improvements, do something else, regular low-carb or go back to only calorie counting.

I'm very happy with it. I've lost 63lbs, exercise, and feel great. But after the first few weeks, you do have to watch your calories. As you lose, your body requires less to run, as you know, so to continue losing you have to watch the deficit. But I don't find it all that hard as the foods are filling.

Good luck.

miamouse3

cajuntank wrote: »

You are putting people in a catch-22 of sorts as you are offering very serious medical and clinical conditions, yet are stating that if someone defers you to a medical professional, you will be offended.

So I will offer an opinion thusly as if there are no pre-existing medical conditions to take into account. Keto or not to Keto is moot in regards to weightloss. Overall caloric intake vs caloric output is all that matters. If you choose to follow Keto as the protocol of eating due to it initially creating the caloric deficit by negating food groups and you can personally adhere to it, then that's the protocol you need to follow. If you personally cannot adhere to that protocol of eating long term, then no...it's not the protocol you need to do. Keto or low carb, etc... does not do anything special for weightloss. You are substituting one macronutrient for another, but in the end it's calories in vs calories out that dictate weight loss or weight gain. So if your maintenance is 2000 calories (just using an arbitrary number) and you eat 30g of carbs (120 calories) and 2000 calories of protein and fat, you will gain weight (even though you are low carb). That's why I keep referring to Keto or low carb as a protocol (way to eat). It initially creates a caloric deficit because it negates a lot of caloricaly dense foods you are probably overeating already and gets you eating more protein and fat which are satiating (feeling full). But at some point in time, you will have to start counting calories when you stop losing as you will then be at your new maintenance and have to eat even less to keep losing. So it again boils down to personal adherence on which protocol you can follow long term...Low carb, balanced diet (IIFYM), Paleo, etc...

All that being said. I would be remiss if I did not point out that there are of course medical reasons for going on a low carb diet that you need to discuss with a Dr. (maybe someone who specializes in medical nutrition and not just a G.P. or some other specialty outside of nutrition). Sorry if that offends.

Thank you for that enlightening post of information I generally already knew and follow.
Again, I was asking people about their personal experiences actually following a keto lifestyle, to see if it was something that would suit me which is along the lines of preferences.

Not offended, seeing a Doctor is smart advice and a good general recommendation. Despite most doctors I have seen being *kitten*, I would be talking to a doctor rather than a forum if I could. I'm not an idiot, and I am generally not that big of a risk taker. Thats why I am researching rather than diving in. And why I posted detailed medical information. It was my hopes someone with any similarity in statistics who has tried keto might tell me how it went for them.


As for how Keto works, here's a ton of articles and such about it for everyones enjoyment:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aiHSPoto_YqsNTDvL-g60nytMnyH-CJcCbiAx1IEUYM/edit

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/2013/10/01/the-fat-fueled-brain-unnatural-or-advantageous/

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/a-fat-chance-of-diet-truth/story-fni0fhh1-1227124893979?nk=e1f00bfc208065484f74f637c64022c4

http://www.livestrong.com/article/415284-ketogenic-diet-bipolar-disorder/

http://authoritynutrition.com/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets/

eric_sg61

miamouse3 wrote: »

kgeyser wrote: »

If you really do have a healthy lifestyle, have been eating in a deficit and have not been seeing weight loss, then the only course of action really is to see a doctor.

LCHF doesn't cause weight loss unless you are in a deficit, so if you're already in a deficit and not seeing any loss, a change in diet isn't going to do much. LCHF has been a good choice for people with thyroid issues or PCOS, but again, you would need a doctor to diagnose and treat. I don't know of anyone on MFP with either of those conditions who is not on some form of medication to regulate the hormones along with a LCHF diet for weight loss.

My doctors suspected Thyroid and PCOS, but the blood test results didn't show a yes. I was advised by someone on here to ask for a different test that was more accurate, I have it written down somewhere, but I can't get to a doctor right now because I work full time and the nearest physicians office that accepts my insurance is 1 hour and 45 minutes away on a good traffic day. I will go as soon as I can, but for right now I really can't go wrong with trying something new that could help since I am not getting any better doing what I already am. Its not a crash diet, so really there isn't any harm in giving it a go as long as I do it right.
Again, I was asking for people's experiences. I listed my stats because if anyone who has any similar stats and has tried keto sees this maybe they can tell me how it worked out.
The ASBP often recommends LCHF diets. I have seen a lot of posts on the keto board on reddit where people saw little to no result on other diets, switched to this, and saw change.

I also read about how low carb diets have shown improvements for people in epilepsy. Following keto and similar diets reduced the number of seizures they were having due to the way the diet change affected certain processes. The reaction was similar to results seen on depakote. In theory, epilepsy and bipolar share similarities, and both are controlled with seizure medications like depakote. These medications help make seizures and episodes less frequent. I have been treated with seizure medication in the past. I am not currently on any because I can't see a doctor right now. There aren't enough case studies done on bipolar patients, other than a couple bipolar women with similar issues as mine voluntarily underwent the lifestyle change and saw improvement physically and mentally. Because there isn't a wider grouping and more variables, this isn't a confirmation but it does suggest that theoretically it could be affective in therapies for bipolar patients.

So I do have medical reasoning to want to try it. I will see a doctor when I can. Right now I can't. I'm working on repairing that situation but it is incredibly tiring to hear that over and over when I am doing everything I can right now to have the ability or coverage to see one. its like rubbing salt in the wound. So I would greatly appreciate it if the doctor issue was dropped.

People with certain neurological disorders cannot properly metabolize or uptake glucose in the brain. Ketones provide an alternate fuel source. Even then, they are not always used and if they are used they are used short-term and the patients are monitored by dieticians and doctors because of the side effects of the diet.

Wheelhouse15

miamouse3 wrote: »

Wheelhouse15 wrote: »

OP, I would really caution you against releasing such detailed medical information online.

There are millions of people with the same medical stats as me. None of this information enables Identity theft, and good luck if they want it to commit insurance fraud because mine sucks hardcore. I have huge medical debts. If someone wanted to use my information, they aren't going to have a jolly good time with it.

I see you just don't get the fact that there are things other than identify theft that can be done and things that can be worse. I would avoid discussion specific medical issues online.

blktngldhrt

Hello. I follow the ketogenic diet. It has been more effective, for me, than having a calorie deficit alone. However, I have reactive hypoglycemia and am treating it with a lchf diet rather than taking medication.

My blood sugar has been more stable in the month and a half I've been on keto than in the 11 years prior that I've been trying various dietary/medicinal changes. My pancreas is highly overactive. High insulin levels increase fat storage. I've been able to exercise without glucose drops for the first time in years. With a calorie deficit and exercise I have lost 12 lbs in 1.5 months. My hypoglycemic symptoms are almost nonexistent..which is amazing because being hypo SUCKS.

It was an easy transition for me because I was already eating fairly low carb. A lot easier than I expected. I do find it difficult some days to get my fat macros up where they should be. Fat Bombs, coconut oil, and hemp oil help with this tremendously. I also had an issue with green vegetables causing discomfort due to lack of food for my gut bacteria. Eating pickles, yogurt, and a probiotic helped with that.

I would say, try the diet and see if it works for you. The worst that could happen is its not for you. It looks like you've done research. There's a keto group here where you might find more supportive answers. Since you don't have access to a doctor right now..do some research to make sure it won't interfere with your medication.

Good luck!

squirrlt

My Personal Experience:

I'm on a keto diet (in my case, target is <40 net gms carbs per day, protein <95 g) per my doctor's recommendation to treat migraines. I experienced an almost immediate reduction in migraine symptoms. I'm not bipolar (as far as I know) so I can't speak to that, but it certainly seems help calm my "excitable" migraine brain.

In terms of weight loss, in my experience, it is MUCH easier for me to stay in a caloric deficit. I can go longer between meals and I tend to eat less at a sitting. I'm assuming it's because I feel full most of the time from eating high fat/protein and my energy levels are more stable because I no longer rely on carbs to maintain my energy level. I sometimes have to force myself to eat before bed to get to my BMR, and it's very easy to stay within my calorie goal. There are plenty of diets that will put you in a caloric deficit of course, but personally, this just makes it nearly effortless for me.

I have to say, the idea of eating nothing but fatty stuff all day grosses me out, so I try to avoid processed foods or artificial sweeteners, and include at least 2 1/2 cups of low-carb/high fiber veggies per day to make sure I'm getting those nutrients. And I do eat small quantities of fruit as well. However, my carb limit is higher than some other folks that do keto, so it may depend on where you set your limit and how your body reacts.

I definitely don't think this diet is for everyone since it fairly restrictive, but it kills two birds for me (migraines and weight loss) so it's worth it for me. Fortunately, I have found it relatively easy to stick to. However, day 3, I had a bout of nasty muscle cramps at night (watch those elecrolytes in the beginning!!). Since then I have added sodium and potassium to my MFP goals and I try to choose foods high in magnesium. This seems to have corrected the problem but it was extremely unpleasant at the time.

RebelRose122388

I once tried Atkins (another LCHF diet plan) as a means of weight loss about a year ago (I was around your age and stats at the time), and it failed to work for me. I struggled to lose even 9 pounds in a three month period, and it was incredibly discouraging. Later, I read some interesting scientific studies online that indicated there are two types of people in the world: those whose genes "program" them to lose weight and function better on a high-fat, low-carb diet, and those who lose weight and function better on a high-carb, low-fat diet. Do I necessarily believe that we can break the entire world down to who can process fat and carbs better than others? No. But the science behind the study had merit, and LCHF diets typically promote "clean," healthy foods in their most natural state, and by that I mean, the foods you eat on those plans haven't been put through the ringer, where the processing plants have removed all their nutrients and vitamins. Low-fat diets, on the other hand, often promote highly processed, "franken-food" that your body truly has no idea how to properly digest and store.

In short, the only sure-fire way for you to know if Keto/LCHF works for you or not is to try it! And like you mentioned previously, it really can't hurt, because the worst that could happen is that it fails to work. You seem to have done your research and know what the plans all entail, so give it a whirl before you go see your doctor!! And when you get there, maybe he/she will be better able to assist you with your weight loss journey. Good luck, and best wishes!!

Mr_Knight

If you can't offer this, and aren't seeking similar answers or answering with anything about Keto, don't comment. Its unnecessary, redundant, and exhausting.

As is coming on a PUBLIC forum posting PUBLIC comments and (effectively) telling people to shut the hell up.

What, did you just discover this internet thing?

NO, conventional/traditional methods will not work.

Caloric deficit ALWAYS works, no matter what the underlying medical condition. ALWAYS.

If it didn't for you, you were doing it wrong. I suggest open your diary, and you'll get the help you need.

As for VLC, I did it for about a year. It was miserable. Low energy, inability to maintain decent exercise level, mediocre weight loss and constant cravings.

Never again.

PrizePopple

Mr_Knight wrote: »

If you can't offer this, and aren't seeking similar answers or answering with anything about Keto, don't comment. Its unnecessary, redundant, and exhausting.

As is coming on a PUBLIC forum posting PUBLIC comments and (effectively) telling people to shut the hell up.

What, did you just discover this internet thing?

NO, conventional/traditional methods will not work.

Caloric deficit ALWAYS works, no matter what the underlying medical condition. ALWAYS.

If it didn't for you, you were doing it wrong. I suggest open your diary, and you'll get the help you need.

As for VLC, I did it for about a year. It was miserable. Low energy, inability to maintain decent exercise level, mediocre weight loss and constant cravings.

Never again.

I'm going to have to flag you for causing me to spit water on my monitor.