Glycemic index
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dieselbyte wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »If your question is about carb sensitivity regarding diabetes, please provide which type you have as well as whether you are on insulin (if type 2).
I have "double diabetes" (i.e. I have type 1 and I also have type 2). There are some type 1's who eat LCHF diets in order to prevent or limit post-prandial spikes. Those individuals must be cautious because they usually have higher basal rates set up in order to manage slower BG increases from protein (and fat, depending on quantity). If one of those people skipped a meal one day, they would be at risk of hypoglycemia. So it requires dedication and consistency about when and how much of each macro is eaten (particularly protein and fat, as those diabetics often bolus for carbs).
If you have type 2, then you need to clarify whether you are on insulin. If you are on both bolus and basal insulin (or on a pump with both), then the above would apply to you. If you are just on a basal insulin, then you will likely see smaller post-prandial spikes if you eat fewer carbs, but you will see higher sustained glucose levels instead. If you are not on insulin at all (i.e. you are controlling with oral medication or with diet), then a LCHF diet makes the most sense for you because you are not at a point where you are setup to manage the post-prandial spikes in any way whatsoever.
*Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, just someone who has had more training than most GP's and live with these diseases.
^This. A LCHF diet may make the most sense. Keeping track of your overall carb intake in relation to other macros is more reliable. Glycemic index isn't real world unfortunately - it measures glycemic reponse when ingesting only carbs in a fasted, overnight state. Most, if not all your meals are mixed and ingested in a fed state. While a white potato may be high on the glycemic index, mixed meals of proteins and fats, along with high fiber foods will blunt the glycemic response of said potato.
ETA: From the little I've read, there doesn't seem to be a concensus on what's better - post-prandial control or management of related risk factors and glycemic control to type 2 diabetes (weight, exercise).
From what I have read, the long-term health problems associated with diabetes (of either type) results from elevated glucose levels as little as 140 at 2 hour post-meal. (In other words, at 3 meals per day, 25% of the day at 140 or higher BG.) The argument can be made that this even applies to non-diabetics who eat a lot of carbs, particularly simple sugars, because "junk food" diets in healthy individuals would still cause this result.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »If your question is about carb sensitivity regarding diabetes, please provide which type you have as well as whether you are on insulin (if type 2).
I have "double diabetes" (i.e. I have type 1 and I also have type 2). There are some type 1's who eat LCHF diets in order to prevent or limit post-prandial spikes. Those individuals must be cautious because they usually have higher basal rates set up in order to manage slower BG increases from protein (and fat, depending on quantity). If one of those people skipped a meal one day, they would be at risk of hypoglycemia. So it requires dedication and consistency about when and how much of each macro is eaten (particularly protein and fat, as those diabetics often bolus for carbs).
If you have type 2, then you need to clarify whether you are on insulin. If you are on both bolus and basal insulin (or on a pump with both), then the above would apply to you. If you are just on a basal insulin, then you will likely see smaller post-prandial spikes if you eat fewer carbs, but you will see higher sustained glucose levels instead. If you are not on insulin at all (i.e. you are controlling with oral medication or with diet), then a LCHF diet makes the most sense for you because you are not at a point where you are setup to manage the post-prandial spikes in any way whatsoever.
*Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, just someone who has had more training than most GP's and live with these diseases.
^This. A LCHF diet may make the most sense. Keeping track of your overall carb intake in relation to other macros is more reliable. Glycemic index isn't real world unfortunately - it measures glycemic reponse when ingesting only carbs in a fasted, overnight state. Most, if not all your meals are mixed and ingested in a fed state. While a white potato may be high on the glycemic index, mixed meals of proteins and fats, along with high fiber foods will blunt the glycemic response of said potato.
ETA: From the little I've read, there doesn't seem to be a concensus on what's better - post-prandial control or management of related risk factors and glycemic control to type 2 diabetes (weight, exercise).
From what I have read, the long-term health problems associated with diabetes (of either type) results from elevated glucose levels as little as 140 at 2 hour post-meal. (In other words, at 3 meals per day, 25% of the day at 140 or higher BG.) The argument can be made that this even applies to non-diabetics who eat a lot of carbs, particularly simple sugars, because "junk food" diets in healthy individuals would still cause this result.
Healthy, non-diabetic levels are usually below 120, and it is rare for a healthy, non-diabetic to approach or even exceed 140, due to the first-phase insulin response from nutrient intake. This first phase response is either absent or extremely weak in type 2 diabetics, causing higher BG throughout the day. I'm not an expert, and not diabetic, but I guess I question whether post-prandial control is the main contributor to health problems in the long term?
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dieselbyte wrote: »double post
Holy fk bro. That Avi. Well done friend.
Thank you brotha!0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I sort of do that. I don't look up the GI of every food I eat, and those I do look up I look at glycemic load. But I know that things like fiber and protein slow digestion and lessen BG spikes, and that fast digesting carbs eaten alone will cause a BG spike. I usually eat to avoid the spike.
This is mostly how I live... I have reactive hypoglycemia so my insulin over shoots if I eat anything that spikes my blood sugar. I have found it easier to manage this way. Carbs aren't evil and I can have as many veggies and beans as I'd like because of the fiber content. If I want cake or pizza (for some reason pizza and pasta kill me) I have to make sure I have something before or with it to slow the absorption.
Grapefruit juice is another tool I use. It naturally suppresses insulin so it may not work in your situation, but it allows me to have sweets & breads on occasion without my glucose level bottoming out...
Good luck!
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Instead of doing that, which is quite a pain, I look at my total carbs. If I am under 40%, I am not eating foods that will make me spike and crash. That's not low carb, it means I am getting more of my calories from protein and fat and both of these parts of my diet moderate the glycemic effect of carbs on my insulin levels.
From a weight loss perspective, I cannot lose weight easily if my carbs are over 50%. When I'm under 50% or especially 40%, the weight comes right off. High blood sugar and spiking insulin sequester that blood sugar as fat, your blood sugar will tend to overshoot and be too low, the insulin slows fat burning for a period of time (around 2 hours), and you get hungry. That either makes it hard to stick to your calorie goals or you eat and don't hit them. It's why I'm starving 2 hours after a filling waffles breakfast but can go until 1 on eggs.
It's a pretty easy change to make. I found it helpful.
This is what I do as well. Glycemic index is hard to track (although helpful to understand the WHY behind reducing carb intake) I definitely lose more weight when I cut out the high carb/high glycemic foods. I feel much better too. No awful bouts of hypoglycemia as long as I watch what I'm eating.
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dieselbyte wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »If your question is about carb sensitivity regarding diabetes, please provide which type you have as well as whether you are on insulin (if type 2).
I have "double diabetes" (i.e. I have type 1 and I also have type 2). There are some type 1's who eat LCHF diets in order to prevent or limit post-prandial spikes. Those individuals must be cautious because they usually have higher basal rates set up in order to manage slower BG increases from protein (and fat, depending on quantity). If one of those people skipped a meal one day, they would be at risk of hypoglycemia. So it requires dedication and consistency about when and how much of each macro is eaten (particularly protein and fat, as those diabetics often bolus for carbs).
If you have type 2, then you need to clarify whether you are on insulin. If you are on both bolus and basal insulin (or on a pump with both), then the above would apply to you. If you are just on a basal insulin, then you will likely see smaller post-prandial spikes if you eat fewer carbs, but you will see higher sustained glucose levels instead. If you are not on insulin at all (i.e. you are controlling with oral medication or with diet), then a LCHF diet makes the most sense for you because you are not at a point where you are setup to manage the post-prandial spikes in any way whatsoever.
*Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, just someone who has had more training than most GP's and live with these diseases.
^This. A LCHF diet may make the most sense. Keeping track of your overall carb intake in relation to other macros is more reliable. Glycemic index isn't real world unfortunately - it measures glycemic reponse when ingesting only carbs in a fasted, overnight state. Most, if not all your meals are mixed and ingested in a fed state. While a white potato may be high on the glycemic index, mixed meals of proteins and fats, along with high fiber foods will blunt the glycemic response of said potato.
ETA: From the little I've read, there doesn't seem to be a concensus on what's better - post-prandial control or management of related risk factors and glycemic control to type 2 diabetes (weight, exercise).
From what I have read, the long-term health problems associated with diabetes (of either type) results from elevated glucose levels as little as 140 at 2 hour post-meal. (In other words, at 3 meals per day, 25% of the day at 140 or higher BG.) The argument can be made that this even applies to non-diabetics who eat a lot of carbs, particularly simple sugars, because "junk food" diets in healthy individuals would still cause this result.
Healthy, non-diabetic levels are usually below 120, and it is rare for a healthy, non-diabetic to approach or even exceed 140, due to the first-phase insulin response from nutrient intake. This first phase response is either absent or extremely weak in type 2 diabetics, causing higher BG throughout the day. I'm not an expert, and not diabetic, but I guess I question whether post-prandial control is the main contributor to health problems in the long term?
I don't believe post-prandial control is the MAIN contributor to long-term health complications, because those who run high 24/7 are going to be at much greater risk. Still, diabetics that have good BG's 75% of the time still have a greatly increased risk because of the elevated BG's resulting from post-prandial spikes. It isn't just that it raises BG, but also that BG does not decrease as quickly (because even lab-created insulin cannot be delivered as quickly as insulin from one's own pancreas). So... aside from those who run high constantly, post-prandial spikes are the biggest contributor to glycation damage primarily due to timing. It is just too long to be above 140 still after 2 hours have passed.
As far as non-diabetics being below 120, they generally lower faster than diabetics because of how insulin is delivered. However, even healthy non-diabetics would normally expect a BG of 150-180 at 1 hour after eating a meal with carbs. It would be below 140, though, at 2 hours.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »If your question is about carb sensitivity regarding diabetes, please provide which type you have as well as whether you are on insulin (if type 2).
I have "double diabetes" (i.e. I have type 1 and I also have type 2). There are some type 1's who eat LCHF diets in order to prevent or limit post-prandial spikes. Those individuals must be cautious because they usually have higher basal rates set up in order to manage slower BG increases from protein (and fat, depending on quantity). If one of those people skipped a meal one day, they would be at risk of hypoglycemia. So it requires dedication and consistency about when and how much of each macro is eaten (particularly protein and fat, as those diabetics often bolus for carbs).
If you have type 2, then you need to clarify whether you are on insulin. If you are on both bolus and basal insulin (or on a pump with both), then the above would apply to you. If you are just on a basal insulin, then you will likely see smaller post-prandial spikes if you eat fewer carbs, but you will see higher sustained glucose levels instead. If you are not on insulin at all (i.e. you are controlling with oral medication or with diet), then a LCHF diet makes the most sense for you because you are not at a point where you are setup to manage the post-prandial spikes in any way whatsoever.
*Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, just someone who has had more training than most GP's and live with these diseases.
^This. A LCHF diet may make the most sense. Keeping track of your overall carb intake in relation to other macros is more reliable. Glycemic index isn't real world unfortunately - it measures glycemic reponse when ingesting only carbs in a fasted, overnight state. Most, if not all your meals are mixed and ingested in a fed state. While a white potato may be high on the glycemic index, mixed meals of proteins and fats, along with high fiber foods will blunt the glycemic response of said potato.
ETA: From the little I've read, there doesn't seem to be a concensus on what's better - post-prandial control or management of related risk factors and glycemic control to type 2 diabetes (weight, exercise).
From what I have read, the long-term health problems associated with diabetes (of either type) results from elevated glucose levels as little as 140 at 2 hour post-meal. (In other words, at 3 meals per day, 25% of the day at 140 or higher BG.) The argument can be made that this even applies to non-diabetics who eat a lot of carbs, particularly simple sugars, because "junk food" diets in healthy individuals would still cause this result.
Healthy, non-diabetic levels are usually below 120, and it is rare for a healthy, non-diabetic to approach or even exceed 140, due to the first-phase insulin response from nutrient intake. This first phase response is either absent or extremely weak in type 2 diabetics, causing higher BG throughout the day. I'm not an expert, and not diabetic, but I guess I question whether post-prandial control is the main contributor to health problems in the long term?
I don't believe post-prandial control is the MAIN contributor to long-term health complications, because those who run high 24/7 are going to be at much greater risk. Still, diabetics that have good BG's 75% of the time still have a greatly increased risk because of the elevated BG's resulting from post-prandial spikes. It isn't just that it raises BG, but also that BG does not decrease as quickly (because even lab-created insulin cannot be delivered as quickly as insulin from one's own pancreas). So... aside from those who run high constantly, post-prandial spikes are the biggest contributor to glycation damage primarily due to timing. It is just too long to be above 140 still after 2 hours have passed.
As far as non-diabetics being below 120, they generally lower faster than diabetics because of how insulin is delivered. However, even healthy non-diabetics would normally expect a BG of 150-180 at 1 hour after eating a meal with carbs. It would be below 140, though, at 2 hours.
Thank you for your insight. Truly appreciate it!0 -
OMGosh! You guys are awesome! Thanks for the really great, detailed info. You have given me a lot of info to work with (and some words I will have to look up! haha).0
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