A question about bulking and cutting...
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Have to agree with mrbyte here. The amount of actual energy available to your body is lower from a calorie of protein than from a calorie of carbs. Carbs require less processing for the body to convert to energy. Proteins require more processing, which expends energy. This leaves less net energy.
Except, fats were increased too and they have a lower TEF.0 -
I'm just over 24% BF, OP and have been toying with the idea of trying a bulk but at the end of the day, I am absolutely not mentally ready to gain fat. I think I will continue cutting for another 10 pounds or so and then brace myself for a whole new experience. Like many, I have gone through long periods of my life overweight. I have lost close to 95 pounds in the last 3 years which is the most success I have ever had. I want to be real certain about my mind state when I change gears.
Having said that, I absolutely know building muscle (bulk) will be neccessary for me to attain the physical goals I have for myself and I can't put if off forever!
ETA- OP - also, if you look at my profile pics you will see I have plenty of muscle definition even without the bulk program. With a deficit and lifting heavy, you will increase your physical strength and those muscles that are hiding will pop out!0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »
Have to agree with mrbyte here. The amount of actual energy available to your body is lower from a calorie of protein than from a calorie of carbs. Carbs require less processing for the body to convert to energy. Proteins require more processing, which expends energy. This leaves less net energy.
Except, fats were increased too and they have a lower TEF.
True, but no ratios pre and intra cut were discussed, so the results would be entirely speculative. Regardless, I was simply commenting on the misconception that "a calorie = a calorie" that seemed prevalent in the thread.0 -
If all the calories difference was made up by protein I would not see a 10 lbs loss over 5 months as out of the normal range. Maybe the high end though.
Protein does require a bit more to process but fat is about the same when compared to carbs. Factor in some water weight and satiety from higher protein and fat could account for a larger deficit than expected and I could see where mrbyte might see some success with this. A small amount of recomp might also account for some of the number shift.
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and OP has deactivated their account ~sighs~0
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It's an error I think. They mentioned it earlier in the thread, or in a different thread if I'm not mistaken.0
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LolBroScience wrote: »It's an error I think. They mentioned it earlier in the thread, or in a different thread if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, in a different thread she mentions that she's not deacto, but shows as such.
They're very much active.0 -
oh, ok - thanks gentlemen.0
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It's slow. I went from 18% at 205 to 10% at 195 in about 5 months. But I don't like being under 200. This was also after a long layoff so I was able to gain a lot of LBM back during my reacclomation to weights. So a couple of percent of bf a month. My goal is 205 at 10%. Will be a while before I hit that.
To lose mass you need a deficit . This is a basic law of physics. No one can circumvent this. Carb reduction would flush water which can play havoc with biometric scales... Either that or you are underestimating the calories burned through exercise. There is some debate about the true calorific value for protein because of thermogenesis but I doubt if it would make a significant difference.0 -
Wow when did I miss all the fun about macros?! Lol0
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philwrightfitness wrote: »It's slow. I went from 18% at 205 to 10% at 195 in about 5 months. But I don't like being under 200. This was also after a long layoff so I was able to gain a lot of LBM back during my reacclomation to weights. So a couple of percent of bf a month. My goal is 205 at 10%. Will be a while before I hit that.
To lose mass you need a deficit . This is a basic law of physics. No one can circumvent this. Carb reduction would flush water which can play havoc with biometric scales... Either that or you are underestimating the calories burned through exercise. There is some debate about the true calorific value for protein because of thermogenesis but I doubt if it would make a significant difference.
I'm absolutely positive that you can quote numerous studies regarding this topic, as well as every other fitness related issue. If you find value in that, good for you. I prefer to trust experience and real world results over studies, particularly when there is almost never a solid consensus reached. Mr.byte is simply stating what he has found to be true. You're basing your doubts on theory. Your post seemed patronizing. Apologies if my assumption is incorrect.0 -
Also, to be clear, MrByte simply relayed his experience, not in an effort to blow smoke. Simply to convey how things work for him.
It's possible there are confounding variables that for brevity were left out,, and possible there might be unknown confounding variables that make that approach work for him.0 -
FeralIX: Thanks for your input. Appreciated.
DBmata: Yes I was jusy relaying experience. Who knows if I have medical issues that is producing these results? No one is the same.
Phil, I'm the same age as you. Rather than following the mob and trying to debunk what I'm saying as a falsity, Rather just try it and see if it works for you. I just turned 50 this month and the way I eat makes me lean and the lifting keeps lbm on me.
I'm not here to argue just relay experience that people can experiment with. If it works then great. If not, no big deal..move on to the next diet theory.
The forums here are ruthless. I've been accused of lying about my age, telling me I eat to much protein, etc. People need to lightlen up.0 -
Show us the DL, you have the pecs of a man half your age. heh.0
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Looking great for any age mrB, keep it up. Lol @ too much protein, can't argue with results.0
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LOLBroScience. I stated that I had a lay off from weights. I lost probably 15 pounds in LBM right there. I started lifting and watched my carbs. I gained my LBM back partially and lost fat. If I'm training and watchign my carbs I sit at 200 @ 10% right now. That's at 4000 calories a day.
How many times have you successfully cut using this method?
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Hi I'm not trying to deliberately debunk you for the sake of it but if people quote personal results that go in the face of the laws of physics and biochemistry then you've got to expect a little heat... On forums like this we get so many people claiming contrary results but with investigation their results are actually consistent with the science it is their own self analysis that tends to be wrong. If you can lose fat eating at maintenance then this is fairly unique but I would hazard there is something in the overall equation that explains this. I apologise if I sound patronising I'm just a fellow explorer and member of the 50+ club!FeralIX: Thanks for your input. Appreciated.
DBmata: Yes I was jusy relaying experience. Who knows if I have medical issues that is producing these results? No one is the same.
Phil, I'm the same age as you. Rather than following the mob and trying to debunk what I'm saying as a falsity, Rather just try it and see if it works for you. I just turned 50 this month and the way I eat makes me lean and the lifting keeps lbm on me.
I'm not here to argue just relay experience that people can experiment with. If it works then great. If not, no big deal..move on to the next diet theory.
The forums here are ruthless. I've been accused of lying about my age, telling me I eat to much protein, etc. People need to lightlen up.
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philwrightfitness wrote: »It's slow. I went from 18% at 205 to 10% at 195 in about 5 months. But I don't like being under 200. This was also after a long layoff so I was able to gain a lot of LBM back during my reacclomation to weights. So a couple of percent of bf a month. My goal is 205 at 10%. Will be a while before I hit that.
To lose mass you need a deficit . This is a basic law of physics. No one can circumvent this. Carb reduction would flush water which can play havoc with biometric scales... Either that or you are underestimating the calories burned through exercise. There is some debate about the true calorific value for protein because of thermogenesis but I doubt if it would make a significant difference.
I'm absolutely positive that you can quote numerous studies regarding this topic, as well as every other fitness related issue. If you find value in that, good for you. I prefer to trust experience and real world results over studies, particularly when there is almost never a solid consensus reached. Mr.byte is simply stating what he has found to be true. You're basing your doubts on theory. Your post seemed patronizing. Apologies if my assumption is incorrect.
Very well said.0 -
philwrightfitness wrote: »It's slow. I went from 18% at 205 to 10% at 195 in about 5 months. But I don't like being under 200. This was also after a long layoff so I was able to gain a lot of LBM back during my reacclomation to weights. So a couple of percent of bf a month. My goal is 205 at 10%. Will be a while before I hit that.
To lose mass you need a deficit . This is a basic law of physics. No one can circumvent this. Carb reduction would flush water which can play havoc with biometric scales... Either that or you are underestimating the calories burned through exercise. There is some debate about the true calorific value for protein because of thermogenesis but I doubt if it would make a significant difference.
I'm absolutely positive that you can quote numerous studies regarding this topic, as well as every other fitness related issue. If you find value in that, good for you. I prefer to trust experience and real world results over studies, particularly when there is almost never a solid consensus reached. Mr.byte is simply stating what he has found to be true. You're basing your doubts on theory. Your post seemed patronizing. Apologies if my assumption is incorrect.
thats the nice thing about science, you don't have to believe in it, it just is….0 -
like voodoo.0
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