Will a Mediterranean diet help you live longer?
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »Aren't there a lot of pasta and breads in the Mediterranean diet? Are they whole grain? I ask because I have a fairly extensive cookbook divided by country, and there's plenty of bread and pasta, but mostly not whole grain... Lots of semolina flour. And the Mediterranean delis in my area also serve lots of bread and pasta, Turkish lamb pizzas, pita bread, etc.
Obviously, everyone in the Mediterranean region will not eat exactly the same, just as in any other region. This sight has some good info on the Mediterranean diet.
http://oldwayspt.org/resources/heritage-pyramids/mediterranean-diet-pyramid0 -
Here is another good link for diet comparisons, the Mediterranean is ranked in the top three in this comparison. I think it could, I try and follow it.
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets?int=9be246
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Here is another good link for diet comparisons, the Mediterranean is ranked in the top three in this comparison. I think it could, I try and follow it.
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets?int=9be246
What's interesting about those rankings, is that if you change the ranking to best heart health diet, Ornish, which is a low-fat diet, becomes #1 and Mediterranean drops to #4, which does not match the results of the study discussed in the OP's video.
I wonder who was on their panel of health experts.0 -
These comparisons always make me scratch my head.0
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Ornish is a shotgun solution that gets results based on the demographics it uses....how could it not. Look your losing weight and getting healthier.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Here is another good link for diet comparisons, the Mediterranean is ranked in the top three in this comparison. I think it could, I try and follow it.
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets?int=9be246
What's interesting about those rankings, is that if you change the ranking to best heart health diet, Ornish, which is a low-fat diet, becomes #1 and Mediterranean drops to #4, which does not match the results of the study discussed in the OP's video.
I wonder who was on their panel of health experts.
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neanderthin wrote: »
Ornish is a shotgun solution that gets results based on the demographics it uses....how could it not. Look your losing weight and getting healthier.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Here is another good link for diet comparisons, the Mediterranean is ranked in the top three in this comparison. I think it could, I try and follow it.
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-overall-diets?int=9be246
What's interesting about those rankings, is that if you change the ranking to best heart health diet, Ornish, which is a low-fat diet, becomes #1 and Mediterranean drops to #4, which does not match the results of the study discussed in the OP's video.
I wonder who was on their panel of health experts.
That is probably true, but I would hope that if a health expert was asked which diet was best for heart health they would choose the best for everyone, including those that don't need to lose weight.
And yes, I am aware that my hoping doesn't necessarily make it so.0 -
I'd like to see the low carb / Mediterranean diet comparison too!
Like ninerbuff said though, there are no guarantees that "good" diet means long life and even the "experts" sometimes aren't lucky: http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/stories/7-diet-gurus-who-died-of-poor-health
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SnuggleSmacks wrote: »Aren't there a lot of pasta and breads in the Mediterranean diet? Are they whole grain? I ask because I have a fairly extensive cookbook divided by country, and there's plenty of bread and pasta, but mostly not whole grain... Lots of semolina flour. And the Mediterranean delis in my area also serve lots of bread and pasta, Turkish lamb pizzas, pita bread, etc.
Yes and no. As in, yes, we eat a lot of pasta and bread, but a common misconception for instance is that those are eaten together, whereas they should not. (The bread would only be used to "clean" the plates afterwards.)
As for whole grains... Well, no, not today. As I said above, the Mediterranean diet is not necessarily based on what people eat today. I am not sure when Italians made the switch from whole wheat to refined wheat (my mom says she was still eating whole grain as a kid), but for if you were to follow the Mediterranean diet as recommended you would replace refined wheats with whole-grain.
That said, I am speaking for Italy only, the Mediterranean Basin doesn't spawn quite a few regions, but quite a few countries, all with very strong and plenty of them are considered as representatives of the Mediterranean diet! Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Italy, Morocco and Croatia (not France in fact) and I guarantee you that we most certainly don't eat at all in the same way
Also, even within Italy there are massive differences within its Region... my mom comes from the Alps, and the diet there is much closer to Austrian than what you'd perceive as mediterranean... So yeah, it's complicated. 0 -
From Wikipedia (but very true): "Despite its name, this diet is not typical of all Mediterranean cuisine. In Northern Italy, for instance, lard and butter are commonly used in cooking, and olive oil is reserved for dressing salads and cooked vegetables. In both North Africa and the Middle East, sheep's tail fat and rendered butter (samna) are the traditional staple fats, with some exceptions."
And "This Mediterranean diet pyramid is based on food patterns typical of Crete, much of the rest of Greece, and southern Italy in the early 1960s, where adult life expectancy was among the highest in the world and rates of coronary heart disease, certain cancers, and other diet-related chronic diseases were among the lowest. Work in the field or kitchen resulted in a lifestyle that included regular physical activity and was associated with low rates of obesity."
From: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/61/6/1402S.abstract0 -
And in fact there is a low carb Med Diet approach.I'd like to see the low carb / Mediterranean diet comparison too!
Like ninerbuff said though, there are no guarantees that "good" diet means long life and even the "experts" sometimes aren't lucky: http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/stories/7-diet-gurus-who-died-of-poor-health
I can link it if you're interested.
And yes, nothing is a given. I don't get the real value in niner's comment, however, because there's NEVER a given.
To me the comment is like: well, you can set up an IRA/401k and it's probably good to do it, but you might die before you retire. Who says that?
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cwolfman13 wrote: »All I can say is that my diet is largely modeled after the Med diet...but I would say I consume far more meat and poultry than would be in the traditional Med diet...but other than that, tons of veg, fruit, nuts and legumes, whole grains, etc...and wine...not always in moderation either.
Personally I think it has done wonders for my blood work. That said, I don't have anything else to compare it to other than the way I was eating before...which actually wasn't all that horribly "bad" or anything...but I definitely didn't get much in the way of fruit and veg...maybe one true serving per day or something...now I get around 8.
Yup, my diet is largely modeled after it as well. In fact it WAS the basis for my weight loss, and then I read the South Beach diet (when the book was published), which is modeled after the mediterranean diet and incorporated some principles from that as well.
I credit these principles (and a few more I picked up along the way) with helping me get to and maintain my weight, and my health. I was eating a pretty S.A.D. diet before. And it wasn't doing me any favors.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »Aren't there a lot of pasta and breads in the Mediterranean diet? Are they whole grain? I ask because I have a fairly extensive cookbook divided by country, and there's plenty of bread and pasta, but mostly not whole grain... Lots of semolina flour. And the Mediterranean delis in my area also serve lots of bread and pasta, Turkish lamb pizzas, pita bread, etc.
Obviously, everyone in the Mediterranean region will not eat exactly the same, just as in any other region. This sight has some good info on the Mediterranean diet.
http://oldwayspt.org/resources/heritage-pyramids/mediterranean-diet-pyramidGingerbreadCandy wrote: »SnuggleSmacks wrote: »Aren't there a lot of pasta and breads in the Mediterranean diet? Are they whole grain? I ask because I have a fairly extensive cookbook divided by country, and there's plenty of bread and pasta, but mostly not whole grain... Lots of semolina flour. And the Mediterranean delis in my area also serve lots of bread and pasta, Turkish lamb pizzas, pita bread, etc.
Yes and no. As in, yes, we eat a lot of pasta and bread, but a common misconception for instance is that those are eaten together, whereas they should not. (The bread would only be used to "clean" the plates afterwards.)
As for whole grains... Well, no, not today. As I said above, the Mediterranean diet is not necessarily based on what people eat today. I am not sure when Italians made the switch from whole wheat to refined wheat (my mom says she was still eating whole grain as a kid), but for if you were to follow the Mediterranean diet as recommended you would replace refined wheats with whole-grain.
That said, I am speaking for Italy only, the Mediterranean Basin doesn't spawn quite a few regions, but quite a few countries, all with very strong and plenty of them are considered as representatives of the Mediterranean diet! Greece, Cyprus, Spain, Italy, Morocco and Croatia (not France in fact) and I guarantee you that we most certainly don't eat at all in the same way
Also, even within Italy there are massive differences within its Region... my mom comes from the Alps, and the diet there is much closer to Austrian than what you'd perceive as mediterranean... So yeah, it's complicated.
Thanks! I make a lot of my own pasta and bread, but I do use mainly semolina flour for pasta and bread flour for bread, but mix whole wheat with both. Maybe I'll try increasing the proportion of whole wheat.
I largely eat in a Med diet way, but without extra animal proteins, I find it difficult to meet my protein target. I eat a lot of seafood, but eat more chicken, and occasional pork as well, and a lot of cheese (mainly goat and feta) I try to make veggies, legumes and whole grains/pulses the base of my meal but I can't hit protein without some sort of poultry/fish/meat.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I know there are studies going on in certain areas of Italy--Sardinia for one---where there are numerous incidents of people that live to be more than 100 years old. Researchers are especially looking at diet in these towns. The Mediterranean diet has protection status. It was in all the papers here recently. I don't think a low carb diet can say the same. Sorry.
Sardinia is one of the "Blue Zones". Also, grains and wine were left out of the op
Grains are most definitely part of the Mediterranean diet. Albeit whole grains and not the refined sorts, even though we do tend to not consume those anymore. So is wine, in moderate quantities.
Keep in mind, the Mediterranean diet people talk about all the time is the traditional one, aka the one our grandparents were eating, which may or may not correspond to what people are currently eating in those areas. (Which explains why those women were given the questionnaire)
As far as I recall, the traditional Mediterranean diet is characterised: lots of vegetables, fruits, nuts and legumes, olive oil as main fat source, whole (unrefined) grains, wine in moderate consumption, dairy products immoderate consumption. Little to moderate meat consumption, little to moderate fish consumption. Fish often preferred over meat.
Yep, this ^ Most of the things Paleo says to avoid, Mediterranean says to embrace, most notably, grains and legumes.
I'm not so sure. After all, people on this thread are talking about a "low carb Med diet" which seems even more oxymoronic to me. That's one reason I'd love to see the questionnaire that demonstrates how the researchers defined it.
There are some big similarities and some big differences between the two. Big differences are in the amount of meat (paleo tends to be meat heavy, although some will argue that's overstated, and as defined the Med diet is light on the meat), and of course grains and legumes (Med says go for it, and tends to be higher due to less meat, and Paleo is obviously anti). But similarities include dairy (paleo says no, and apparently the definition of Med is light on dairy). More significantly, similarities include lots of cooking from whole foods and lots of fruits, vegetables, and nuts. You could even toss in not eating a lot of refined grains and sugary foods, as I imagine that's in the chosen definition of Med diet, and would be consistent with Paleo. (In theory, Med would include drinking wine moderately and Paleo not drinking, but I've yet to meet many people who claim to do Paleo who follow that bit.)
The study says they haven't yet figured out what aspects of the Med diet have the positive results, so that's a topic for further research. My personal guess is that it has more to do with an overlap between those who score high on the questionnaire and those who eat mindfully, with a focus on cooking from whole ingredients, relying on healthy fats, and lots of vegetables, although I'm sure there are some who would argue that it's also or significantly related to eating less meat.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I know there are studies going on in certain areas of Italy--Sardinia for one---where there are numerous incidents of people that live to be more than 100 years old. Researchers are especially looking at diet in these towns. The Mediterranean diet has protection status. It was in all the papers here recently. I don't think a low carb diet can say the same. Sorry.
Sardinia is one of the "Blue Zones". Also, grains and wine were left out of the op
Grains are most definitely part of the Mediterranean diet. Albeit whole grains and not the refined sorts, even though we do tend to not consume those anymore. So is wine, in moderate quantities.
Keep in mind, the Mediterranean diet people talk about all the time is the traditional one, aka the one our grandparents were eating, which may or may not correspond to what people are currently eating in those areas. (Which explains why those women were given the questionnaire)
As far as I recall, the traditional Mediterranean diet is characterised: lots of vegetables, fruits, nuts and legumes, olive oil as main fat source, whole (unrefined) grains, wine in moderate consumption, dairy products immoderate consumption. Little to moderate meat consumption, little to moderate fish consumption. Fish often preferred over meat.
Yep, this ^ Most of the things Paleo says to avoid, Mediterranean says to embrace, most notably, grains and legumes.
I'm not so sure. After all, people on this thread are talking about a "low carb Med diet" which seems even more oxymoronic to me. That's one reason I'd love to see the questionnaire that demonstrates how the researchers defined it.
There are some big similarities and some big differences between the two. Big differences are in the amount of meat (paleo tends to be meat heavy, although some will argue that's overstated, and as defined the Med diet is light on the meat), and of course grains and legumes (Med says go for it, and tends to be higher due to less meat, and Paleo is obviously anti). But similarities include dairy (paleo says no, and apparently the definition of Med is light on dairy). More significantly, similarities include lots of cooking from whole foods and lots of fruits, vegetables, and nuts. You could even toss in not eating a lot of refined grains and sugary foods, as I imagine that's in the chosen definition of Med diet, and would be consistent with Paleo. (In theory, Med would include drinking wine moderately and Paleo not drinking, but I've yet to meet many people who claim to do Paleo who follow that bit.)
The study says they haven't yet figured out what aspects of the Med diet have the positive results, so that's a topic for further research. My personal guess is that it has more to do with an overlap between those who score high on the questionnaire and those who eat mindfully, with a focus on cooking from whole ingredients, relying on healthy fats, and lots of vegetables, although I'm sure there are some who would argue that it's also or significantly related to eating less meat.
The Mediterranean diet is not low carb. Even with being high fiber, it's not low net carb. The OP said that there is a low carb Mediterranean diet, but that would be an alteration. It's not what is commonly meant by "Mediterranean Diet". Also, the Mediterranean diet features olive oil specifically. I don't know if Paleo specifies, but most Paleo followers seem to favor coconut oil. Also, Paleo followers cheating on the no wine rule, wouldn't make any difference to what the diet itself recommends.
There are many diets that recommend plenty of whole natural foods. That's not specific to Paleo or Mediterranean. The grains, legumes, nightshades, and wine really sets these two pretty far apart.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »The Mediterranean diet is not low carb. Even with being high fiber, it's not low net carb. The OP said that there is a low carb Mediterranean diet, but that would be an alteration. It's not what is commonly meant by "Mediterranean Diet".
Did I say it was? Someone said it was possible to be both, but obviously that would be some kind of alteration. The question is--and I have no opinion on this yet--whether it's such an alteration that it becomes nonsensical to call it a Med diet.
One problem is that we all have ideas about what the Med diet is, but there's a lot of vagueness in how it's normally defined, especially since people like the way it sounds so use it pretty broadly. That's why I think we need to know how the study defined it--specifically, how were they scoring their questionnaires?Also, the Mediterranean diet features olive oil specifically. I don't know if Paleo specifies, but most Paleo followers seem to favor coconut oil.
I believe either is considered fine. Coconut oil is just kind of trendy now (like paleo) so they fit well together. (Not slamming coconut oil, which I like, along with olive oil and butter.)
But I'm also not convinced that bit matters unless you think that using olive oil makes the Med diet more healthy than a diet that mostly used coconut oil instead. I'm skeptical--I think there have been studies of the olive oil claims that were disappointing to the olive oil manufacturers who pushed for them, but I currently forget where I read that. Not that olive oil isn't part of a healthy diet, but just that it's not some kind of medicine or magic elixir or whatever.Also, Paleo followers cheating on the no wine rule, wouldn't make any difference to what the diet itself recommends.
Sure, and generally drinking moderately correlates with better health than not drinking. Whether it relates to the specific findings in this case, who knows.There are many diets that recommend plenty of whole natural foods. That's not specific to Paleo or Mediterranean.
Again, sure, but if you controlled for that would you get the same results independent of what people (or the researchers) called the diet, or would you end up finding that those things are more significant than the differences?0 -
Didn't want to quote all of the above, but my comments were directed specifically at the notion that Paleo and the Mediterranean diets are not that far apart. They really are very different, and quite opposite in most respects.
My main point was the fact that both promote "Whole natural foods" doesn't make them similar when their defintions limit or promote mostly opposite ways of eating.0 -
Most cultures promote whole foods, well except the smart and educated countries where nutritional information is king so then we can get it right and show people how it's done.....sounds right.0
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Yeah, most do. Even the traditional American diet that I grew up with did, though the SAD seems to mean something else today.
One interesting question, to me, is whether it's really the diet or something else that is measured when you look at people who follow the diet (as defined). Similar to how the correlation between vegetarianism and positive health results could be related to the benefits of not eating meat or something else about the group of people who choose to be vegetarians, which could simply have to do with mindfulness and diet as compared to the general public. (In case this is not obvious, the study was done by looking at women in the ongoing Nurses Study.)
I have managed to track down a vague description of how the researchers defined the diet: above-average consumption of vegetables (but not potatoes),* fruits, nuts, whole grains, legumes, fish, and monounsaturated fats like olive oil; moderate alcohol intake; and below-average consumption of red and processed meats.
Also, and more interesting to me (this is from an article about it in Forbes): "The researchers also found a much weaker positive association with a generic “healthy” diet pattern. There was no significant association between telomere length and two other dietary patterns, the “prudent” and “Western” dietary patterns."
Sadly, none of these other 'diets' is defined, and I'm really not sure how they might differ.My main point was the fact that both promote "Whole natural foods" doesn't make them similar when their defintions limit or promote mostly opposite ways of eating.
If what really makes the Med diet healthy is "generally cooking from whole foods and lots of fruits and vegetables," then plenty of other "traditional" diets might do just as well. If it's something more specific--like legumes or lower than average meat or extra olive oil and red wine--then that might mean that it's more specific. I don't think they've claimed to know that yet. My suspicion is that it's less likely to be specific ingredients and more likely to be mostly eating whole foods, lots of veggies, etc. The things that tend to be pretty common.
But based on the Forbes article, it's possible that's wrong and I'd love to know how they are defining these other "diets."
*This points out a problem with these correlation studies. If you find that eating lots of potatoes correlates with bad health results (or lots of red meat), does that mean those things are bad for us, or does it mean that in the US the people who eat the most also tend, on average, to eat them in less healthy forms (i.e., chips or fries) and in immoderate amounts or (similarly) to also eat fewer other vegetables?0 -
Who knows it might actually be a combination of many social aspects that are reflective of that lifestyle.......if it's olive oil and wine then I'm as European and Mediterranean as you can get right here on a rock in the middle of a lake.lemurcat12 wrote: »Yeah, most do. Even the traditional American diet that I grew up with did, though the SAD seems to mean something else today.
One interesting question, to me, is whether it's really the diet or something else that is measured when you look at people who follow the diet (as defined). Similar to how the correlation between vegetarianism and positive health results could be related to the benefits of not eating meat or something else about the group of people who choose to be vegetarians, which could simply have to do with mindfulness and diet as compared to the general public. (In case this is not obvious, the study was done by looking at women in the ongoing Nurses Study.)
I have managed to track down a vague description of how the researchers defined the diet: above-average consumption of vegetables (but not potatoes), fruits, nuts, whole grains, legumes, fish, and monounsaturated fats like olive oil; moderate alcohol intake; and below-average consumption of red and processed meats.
Also, and more interesting to me (this is from an article about it in Forbes): "The researchers also found a much weaker positive association with a generic “healthy” diet pattern. There was no significant association between telomere length and two other dietary patterns, the “prudent” and “Western” dietary patterns."
Sadly, none of these other 'diets' is defined, and I'm really not sure how they might differ.My main point was the fact that both promote "Whole natural foods" doesn't make them similar when their defintions limit or promote mostly opposite ways of eating.
If what really makes the Med diet healthy is "generally cooking from whole foods and lots of fruits and vegetables," then plenty of other "traditional" diets might do just as well. If it's something more specific--like legumes or lower than average meat or extra olive oil and red wine--then that might mean that it's more specific. I don't think they've claimed to know that yet. My suspicion is that it's less likely to be specific ingredients and more likely to be mostly eating whole foods, lots of veggies, etc. The things that tend to be pretty common.
But based on the Forbes article, it's possible that's wrong and I'd love to know how they are defining these other "diets."
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Do Americans who eat in the way described also share the social aspects? I suppose perhaps. (I also think there are social aspects when you say that eating whole foods correlates with positive results, as there's probably a correlation between cooking and eating as a group, vs. eating in one's car or whatever.)0
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