Weight training for better cycling

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Hobartlemagne
Hobartlemagne Posts: 277 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I thought I'd throw this out there. Consulting my personal trainer and the Chris Carmichael training book, I came up with a series of weight exercises that strengthen the leg motions of pedaling:

Seated Leg Press (up angle)
Rotary Calf Extension
Leg Extension
Lying Leg Curls
Abdominal Crunch Machine
Butt Blaster
Tibialis Dorsi Flexion
Cable Knee Lift

I know Abs don't seem applicable to pedaling, but you really need it to keep your core stable during cycling.

There are a number of upper body weight exercises that are cycling specific but personally, I'd rather focus on this lower body list.
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  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
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    a lot of people believe that you don't need to work out your upper body for cycling, but it's been found that when you cycle, your effectively pushing against your upper body. so you need to work out your arms. i know that my arms and shoulders and upper back get just as tired on a long bike ride.
  • lishie_rebooted
    lishie_rebooted Posts: 2,973 Member
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    Are there any that don't use weight stack machines but use free weights or cable machines instead? (yes I see cable knee lift)

    I'd think that one would want to work upper body as well so their bodies would be balanced (it's like reversed "do you even leg day?"). I don't cycle so I'm speaking from a general practical use perspective. Having upper body strength is great in every day lift so you shouldn't skip it
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
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    Personally I'd substitute squats for the leg press as you're also engaging smaller stabilizer muscles but both are very effective.
  • paultucker1007
    paultucker1007 Posts: 37 Member
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    Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    Capt_Apollo wrote: »
    a lot of people believe that you don't need to work out your upper body for cycling, but it's been found that when you cycle, your effectively pushing against your upper body. so you need to work out your arms. i know that my arms and shoulders and upper back get just as tired on a long bike ride.

    Agreed. I can always feel it in my back and biceps after a hard ride, especially on the mountain bike.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    paultucker1007 wrote: »
    Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.

    disagree. strength does matter, and can most definitely be a limiting factor. Is it generally? No, probably not. But equating walking up stairs to turning over a 53/21 up a 20% grade is dumb.

  • lishie_rebooted
    lishie_rebooted Posts: 2,973 Member
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    paultucker1007 wrote: »
    Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.

    How did you deduce that the OP is a "bit too fat"

    They have no pictures up and the ticker says "1 lb to go"

  • paultucker1007
    paultucker1007 Posts: 37 Member
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    Anyone using a 53x21 on a 20% grade is dumb. In realistic situations with appropriate gearing, the limiting factor is almost always the aerobic system.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    paultucker1007 wrote: »
    Anyone using a 53x21 on a 20% grade is dumb. In realistic situations with appropriate gearing, the limiting factor is almost always the aerobic system.

    Sorry, meant a 34/21, which is typical compact gearing.

  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    I dont pretend to know anything about endurance training but I think there are some studies that show a positive effect on endurance from strength training.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978605

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24532151

    http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/muscular-endurance-and-strength-training-an-ideal-combo-for-endurance-athletes
  • paultucker1007
    paultucker1007 Posts: 37 Member
    edited December 2014
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    There are studies that show many things, some of which contradict other studies. The evidence is equivocal, but as I understand it the current preponderance of evidence is that:

    1. Strength training almost certainly does not help well-trained endurance cyclists (in fact, the extra weight will likely hinder them on hills)
    2. Strength training may help beginners, but then almost anything helps beginners.
    3. For non-elite cyclists, the best bang for buck in terms of using a limited training time is always riding your bike.
    4. For elite/pro cyclists who've largely maxed out FTP gains, have unlimited training time and will try almost anything for a 0.1% advantage, there may be some benefit to trying things that have yet to be evaluated by science on the off-chance that it it'll give them an edge. 99% of the shite they try will ultimately prove worthless e.g. core strength, low cadence threshold intervals etc etc.
    5. Running is not cycling.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    edited December 2014
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    paultucker1007 wrote: »
    There are studies that show many things, some of which contradict other studies. The evidence is equivocal, but as I understand it the current preponderance of evidence is that:

    1. Strength training almost certainly does not help well-trained endurance cyclists (in fact, the extra weight will likely hinder them on hills)
    2. Strength training may help beginners, but then almost anything helps beginners.
    3. For non-elite cyclists, the best bang for buck in terms of using a limited training time is always riding your bike.
    4. For elite/pro cyclists who've largely maxed out FTP gains, have unlimited training time and will try almost anything for a 0.1% advantage, there may be some benefit to trying things that have yet to be evaluated by science on the off-chance that it it'll give them an edge. 99% of the shite they try will ultimately prove worthless e.g. core strength, low cadence threshold intervals etc etc.
    5. Running is not cycling.

    I will have to take your word for it but the term "strength training" does not always mean "muscle building" or "weight gain". You can become much stronger without any gain in weight.

  • paultucker1007
    paultucker1007 Posts: 37 Member
    edited December 2014
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    603reader wrote: »
    How did you deduce that the OP is a "bit too fat"

    They have no pictures up and the ticker says "1 lb to go"

    Practically everyone is a bit too fat to win the Tour, including me. Its hardly an insult.

  • paultucker1007
    paultucker1007 Posts: 37 Member
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    mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »
    I will have to take your word for it but the term "strength training" does not always mean "muscle building" or "weight gain". You can become much stronger without any gain in weight.

    To a point yes, but increased neuromuscular strength won't help your body transport and use more oxygen.

  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
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    paultucker1007 wrote: »
    Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.

    You've obviously never ridden in the Pyrenees have you? Spend a day climbing like the TDF riders do and tell me again that strength is not a limiting factor.......
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    In conclusion, maximal strength training for 8 weeks improved CE and efficiency and increased time to exhaustion at maximal aerobic power among competitive road cyclists, without change in
    maximal oxygen uptake, cadence, or body weight. Based on the results from the present study, we advise cyclists to include maximal strength training in their training programs.

    MAXIMAL STRENGTH TRAINING IMPROVES CYCLING ECONOMY IN COMPETITIVE CYCLISTS

    Journal of Strength Conditioning and Research, vol 24, no 8, August 2010
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    There is not universal agreement as to the efficacy of strength training (outside of core training) for competitive cyclists, so no one can claim they have the absolute answer. And there is one camp that holds that, even if "strength" training is needed, it can be done on the bike.

    Most people who comes from a strength and conditioning background will come out as "pro" strength training for cyclists, even given the fact that road cycling is almost all aerobic.

    For more detail, I did find an article written by a cycling coach that goes into great depth on the subject.

    http://www.cyclesportcoaching.com/Files/CyclingSpecificStrengthTraining.pdf
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    Hobartlemagne wrote: »
    I thought I'd throw this out there. Consulting my personal trainer and the Chris Carmichael training book, I came up with a series of weight exercises that strengthen the leg motions of pedaling:

    Seated Leg Press (up angle)
    Rotary Calf Extension
    Leg Extension
    Lying Leg Curls
    Abdominal Crunch Machine
    Butt Blaster
    Tibialis Dorsi Flexion
    Cable Knee Lift

    I know Abs don't seem applicable to pedaling, but you really need it to keep your core stable during cycling.

    There are a number of upper body weight exercises that are cycling specific but personally, I'd rather focus on this lower body list.

    If you are comfortable with form, squats might be better than the leg press. I would look into some more functional exercises for hamstrings like reverse hypers, ham curls on a stability ball or using cables. And instead of a "butt blaster" I would recommend a full hip extension using a hip/glute machine or cable.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    edited December 2014
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    paultucker1007 wrote: »
    mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »
    I will have to take your word for it but the term "strength training" does not always mean "muscle building" or "weight gain". You can become much stronger without any gain in weight.

    To a point yes, but increased neuromuscular strength won't help your body transport and use more oxygen.

    True, but it can improve cycling economy, allowing one to get more performance out of their VO2
  • paultucker1007
    paultucker1007 Posts: 37 Member
    edited December 2014
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    Azdak wrote: »
    In conclusion, maximal strength training for 8 weeks improved CE and efficiency and increased time to exhaustion at maximal aerobic power among competitive road cyclists, without change in
    maximal oxygen uptake, cadence, or body weight. Based on the results from the present study, we advise cyclists to include maximal strength training in their training programs.

    MAXIMAL STRENGTH TRAINING IMPROVES CYCLING ECONOMY IN COMPETITIVE CYCLISTS

    Journal of Strength Conditioning and Research, vol 24, no 8, August 2010

    One study isn't conclusive; indeed that study has been criticized for a small sample size, lack of blinding and questionable outcome measures.

    That isn't to say that strength training definitely doesn't improve cycling economy obviously, just that to the best of my knowledge the studies that support it aren't really conclusive - I did say the evidence is equivocal. However, it has been proven beyond all doubt that riding your bike more will make you better at riding your bike.

    If one gets to the stage where cycling more (and/or with greater intensity) isn't feasible i.e. you're a full time cyclist and the limiting factor is recovery, then you can start worrying about this sort of thing. Or, more accurately, tell your coach to start worrying about this sort of thing.

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