Weight training for better cycling
Hobartlemagne
Posts: 566 Member
I thought I'd throw this out there. Consulting my personal trainer and the Chris Carmichael training book, I came up with a series of weight exercises that strengthen the leg motions of pedaling:
Seated Leg Press (up angle)
Rotary Calf Extension
Leg Extension
Lying Leg Curls
Abdominal Crunch Machine
Butt Blaster
Tibialis Dorsi Flexion
Cable Knee Lift
I know Abs don't seem applicable to pedaling, but you really need it to keep your core stable during cycling.
There are a number of upper body weight exercises that are cycling specific but personally, I'd rather focus on this lower body list.
Seated Leg Press (up angle)
Rotary Calf Extension
Leg Extension
Lying Leg Curls
Abdominal Crunch Machine
Butt Blaster
Tibialis Dorsi Flexion
Cable Knee Lift
I know Abs don't seem applicable to pedaling, but you really need it to keep your core stable during cycling.
There are a number of upper body weight exercises that are cycling specific but personally, I'd rather focus on this lower body list.
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a lot of people believe that you don't need to work out your upper body for cycling, but it's been found that when you cycle, your effectively pushing against your upper body. so you need to work out your arms. i know that my arms and shoulders and upper back get just as tired on a long bike ride.0
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Are there any that don't use weight stack machines but use free weights or cable machines instead? (yes I see cable knee lift)
I'd think that one would want to work upper body as well so their bodies would be balanced (it's like reversed "do you even leg day?"). I don't cycle so I'm speaking from a general practical use perspective. Having upper body strength is great in every day lift so you shouldn't skip it0 -
Personally I'd substitute squats for the leg press as you're also engaging smaller stabilizer muscles but both are very effective.0
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Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.-1
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Capt_Apollo wrote: »a lot of people believe that you don't need to work out your upper body for cycling, but it's been found that when you cycle, your effectively pushing against your upper body. so you need to work out your arms. i know that my arms and shoulders and upper back get just as tired on a long bike ride.
Agreed. I can always feel it in my back and biceps after a hard ride, especially on the mountain bike.0 -
paultucker1007 wrote: »Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.
disagree. strength does matter, and can most definitely be a limiting factor. Is it generally? No, probably not. But equating walking up stairs to turning over a 53/21 up a 20% grade is dumb.
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paultucker1007 wrote: »Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.
How did you deduce that the OP is a "bit too fat"
They have no pictures up and the ticker says "1 lb to go"
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Anyone using a 53x21 on a 20% grade is dumb. In realistic situations with appropriate gearing, the limiting factor is almost always the aerobic system.0
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paultucker1007 wrote: »Anyone using a 53x21 on a 20% grade is dumb. In realistic situations with appropriate gearing, the limiting factor is almost always the aerobic system.
Sorry, meant a 34/21, which is typical compact gearing.
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I dont pretend to know anything about endurance training but I think there are some studies that show a positive effect on endurance from strength training.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18978605
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24532151
http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/muscular-endurance-and-strength-training-an-ideal-combo-for-endurance-athletes0 -
There are studies that show many things, some of which contradict other studies. The evidence is equivocal, but as I understand it the current preponderance of evidence is that:
1. Strength training almost certainly does not help well-trained endurance cyclists (in fact, the extra weight will likely hinder them on hills)
2. Strength training may help beginners, but then almost anything helps beginners.
3. For non-elite cyclists, the best bang for buck in terms of using a limited training time is always riding your bike.
4. For elite/pro cyclists who've largely maxed out FTP gains, have unlimited training time and will try almost anything for a 0.1% advantage, there may be some benefit to trying things that have yet to be evaluated by science on the off-chance that it it'll give them an edge. 99% of the shite they try will ultimately prove worthless e.g. core strength, low cadence threshold intervals etc etc.
5. Running is not cycling.0 -
paultucker1007 wrote: »There are studies that show many things, some of which contradict other studies. The evidence is equivocal, but as I understand it the current preponderance of evidence is that:
1. Strength training almost certainly does not help well-trained endurance cyclists (in fact, the extra weight will likely hinder them on hills)
2. Strength training may help beginners, but then almost anything helps beginners.
3. For non-elite cyclists, the best bang for buck in terms of using a limited training time is always riding your bike.
4. For elite/pro cyclists who've largely maxed out FTP gains, have unlimited training time and will try almost anything for a 0.1% advantage, there may be some benefit to trying things that have yet to be evaluated by science on the off-chance that it it'll give them an edge. 99% of the shite they try will ultimately prove worthless e.g. core strength, low cadence threshold intervals etc etc.
5. Running is not cycling.
I will have to take your word for it but the term "strength training" does not always mean "muscle building" or "weight gain". You can become much stronger without any gain in weight.
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mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »I will have to take your word for it but the term "strength training" does not always mean "muscle building" or "weight gain". You can become much stronger without any gain in weight.
To a point yes, but increased neuromuscular strength won't help your body transport and use more oxygen.
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paultucker1007 wrote: »Strength isn't a limiting factor for (endurance) cycling. If you have enough leg strength to walk upstairs you have enough leg strength to win the Tour de France. What you don't have is the aerobic engine, and you're probably a bit too fat.
You've obviously never ridden in the Pyrenees have you? Spend a day climbing like the TDF riders do and tell me again that strength is not a limiting factor.......
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In conclusion, maximal strength training for 8 weeks improved CE and efficiency and increased time to exhaustion at maximal aerobic power among competitive road cyclists, without change in
maximal oxygen uptake, cadence, or body weight. Based on the results from the present study, we advise cyclists to include maximal strength training in their training programs.
MAXIMAL STRENGTH TRAINING IMPROVES CYCLING ECONOMY IN COMPETITIVE CYCLISTS
Journal of Strength Conditioning and Research, vol 24, no 8, August 20100 -
There is not universal agreement as to the efficacy of strength training (outside of core training) for competitive cyclists, so no one can claim they have the absolute answer. And there is one camp that holds that, even if "strength" training is needed, it can be done on the bike.
Most people who comes from a strength and conditioning background will come out as "pro" strength training for cyclists, even given the fact that road cycling is almost all aerobic.
For more detail, I did find an article written by a cycling coach that goes into great depth on the subject.
http://www.cyclesportcoaching.com/Files/CyclingSpecificStrengthTraining.pdf0 -
Hobartlemagne wrote: »I thought I'd throw this out there. Consulting my personal trainer and the Chris Carmichael training book, I came up with a series of weight exercises that strengthen the leg motions of pedaling:
Seated Leg Press (up angle)
Rotary Calf Extension
Leg Extension
Lying Leg Curls
Abdominal Crunch Machine
Butt Blaster
Tibialis Dorsi Flexion
Cable Knee Lift
I know Abs don't seem applicable to pedaling, but you really need it to keep your core stable during cycling.
There are a number of upper body weight exercises that are cycling specific but personally, I'd rather focus on this lower body list.
If you are comfortable with form, squats might be better than the leg press. I would look into some more functional exercises for hamstrings like reverse hypers, ham curls on a stability ball or using cables. And instead of a "butt blaster" I would recommend a full hip extension using a hip/glute machine or cable.
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paultucker1007 wrote: »mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »I will have to take your word for it but the term "strength training" does not always mean "muscle building" or "weight gain". You can become much stronger without any gain in weight.
To a point yes, but increased neuromuscular strength won't help your body transport and use more oxygen.
True, but it can improve cycling economy, allowing one to get more performance out of their VO2
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In conclusion, maximal strength training for 8 weeks improved CE and efficiency and increased time to exhaustion at maximal aerobic power among competitive road cyclists, without change in
maximal oxygen uptake, cadence, or body weight. Based on the results from the present study, we advise cyclists to include maximal strength training in their training programs.
MAXIMAL STRENGTH TRAINING IMPROVES CYCLING ECONOMY IN COMPETITIVE CYCLISTS
Journal of Strength Conditioning and Research, vol 24, no 8, August 2010
One study isn't conclusive; indeed that study has been criticized for a small sample size, lack of blinding and questionable outcome measures.
That isn't to say that strength training definitely doesn't improve cycling economy obviously, just that to the best of my knowledge the studies that support it aren't really conclusive - I did say the evidence is equivocal. However, it has been proven beyond all doubt that riding your bike more will make you better at riding your bike.
If one gets to the stage where cycling more (and/or with greater intensity) isn't feasible i.e. you're a full time cyclist and the limiting factor is recovery, then you can start worrying about this sort of thing. Or, more accurately, tell your coach to start worrying about this sort of thing.0 -
BrianSharpe wrote: »You've obviously never ridden in the Pyrenees have you? Spend a day climbing like the TDF riders do and tell me again that strength is not a limiting factor.......
Well, as it happens I have. Strength is not a limiting factor for endurance cycling. I must admit, I'm not quite sure how where I have or have not cycled affects human biology and/or the fundamental laws of the universe - I had no idea I was so powerful. I'm planning to do the Zoncolan in August - do you think this will affect the universal constant of gravitation in any way?
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If strength IS a limiting factor then surely it stands to reason that the best cyclists in the TdF would have the biggest legs. Like Froome, Wiggins, Contador, the Schlecks...... Hang on, they're built like twiglets, why aren't Cav and Cancellara and Boonen beating them up the Pyrenees with their greater leg strength?0
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Hobartlemagne wrote: »Consulting my personal trainer and the Chris Carmichael training book, I came up with a series of weight exercises that strengthen the leg motions of pedaling:
Seated Leg Press (up angle)
Rotary Calf Extension
Leg Extension
Lying Leg Curls
Abdominal Crunch Machine
Butt Blaster
Tibialis Dorsi Flexion
Cable Knee Lift
Squats and deadlifts eliminate the need to do all of those (except perhaps calf raises). They have the added advantage of working your upper body, plus they're more functional for everyday life than machines.
Then again, since you have a personal trainer and a cycling book, you'll probably go with their advice than some unknown person on a forum.0 -
Maybe it would be an idea to decide WHAT type of cyclist you want to be before throwing yourself at any specific exercise regime. Top track sprinters can't ride 10k without needing a lie down and probably spend more time on squat racks than their bikes. Grand tour riders don't usually go near a gym unless it's for a ramp test.0
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FannyLikesDoughnuts wrote: »Grand tour riders don't usually go near a gym unless it's for a ramp test.
Not true.
Lance here.
And Lance here.
That being said, plenty of cycling coaches and cycling training plans include weights - squats, deadlifts, core work, etc... . Certainly during the off-season, and more for maintenance in season. You won't find a Grand Tour rider near a gym as they taper into the event and ride the grueling event.
Lean and mean for the tours of course...
A 
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Where is the upper body work?
Where are the squats and deadlifts?
I see a lot of fluff, but no basic work.0 -
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SingingSingleTracker wrote: »FannyLikesDoughnuts wrote: »Grand tour riders don't usually go near a gym unless it's for a ramp test.
Not true.
Lance here.
And Lance here.
That being said, plenty of cycling coaches and cycling training plans include weights - squats, deadlifts, core work, etc... . Certainly during the off-season, and more for maintenance in season. You won't find a Grand Tour rider near a gym as they taper into the event and ride the grueling event.
Lean and mean for the tours of course...A
Rubbish. Some conditionings fine but for endurance racing you have shown three cyclists who put far more faith in one Dr Ferrari than they ever did in Gym work. If you want to be a good cyclist it's been proved time and time again that 20 hours a week on your bike, plenty of fresh blood during the season and a regular clen/t3 cycle during the winter will see you through just fine.
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paultucker1007 wrote: »There are studies that show many things, some of which contradict other studies. The evidence is equivocal, but as I understand it the current preponderance of evidence is that:
1. Strength training almost certainly does not help well-trained endurance cyclists (in fact, the extra weight will likely hinder them on hills)
2. Strength training may help beginners, but then almost anything helps beginners.
3. For non-elite cyclists, the best bang for buck in terms of using a limited training time is always riding your bike.
4. For elite/pro cyclists who've largely maxed out FTP gains, have unlimited training time and will try almost anything for a 0.1% advantage, there may be some benefit to trying things that have yet to be evaluated by science on the off-chance that it it'll give them an edge. 99% of the shite they try will ultimately prove worthless e.g. core strength, low cadence threshold intervals etc etc.
5. Running is not cycling.
All of this.
If you have time in your training regimen to get some weight training in then that is great (and from a general health and injury prevention point of view it is a great thing to do.)
If you are replacing cycle specific training with weight training because you believe that will get you further then don't.
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can I just say......... GET ON YOUR BIKE AND RIDE!>>>???0
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