my thoughts on Weight Watchers
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No, that's not right. How could they possibly both dumb it down and complicate it?kommodevaran wrote: »I haven't tried Weight Watchers myself, only read about it and trying to figure it out. My conclusion is that you pay for complicating and dumbing down something simple that you can do for free, is that right?
There are a lot of reasons to pay for a plan. Accountability, education, support, a structured plan, community, professionals, materials...
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Right, people don't understand the 'free fruit' thing. It's more that your fruit and vegetables for the day are 'pre-logged'. So you can skip them if you want but you can't eat junk food instead.As for the fruits are free - maybe it's a gimmick. But if it gets someone to eat a 100 calorie apple over a 100 calorie bag of chips, it can't be all bad. And only your daily requirement of fruits and vegetables are free. You eat 20 bananas, and about 15 of them aren't free. It is tricky getting the points to register but you are supposed to track them over a certain amount.
If I'm calorie counting, I can log my 100ish calories of supplements every single day and aim for 1400 total calories or not log them, still take them and aim for 1300, because I consider them pre-logged, in effect. Same thing, but in the latter case I can't skip my supplements and have a beer instead. The point is it encourages you to do the things you should be doing, unlike pure calorie goals that sort of penalize you for eating things you should be eating.
Plus it's a great way to avoid 'logging fatigue'. Don't feel like logging snacks? Snack on fruit and veggies. Don't feel like logging dessert? Have fruit. It builds good habits.
People don't lose or lose less on the newer WW plans because they allow a LOT of food/calories now. If you don't have a lot to lose and don't want to spend years at it, you can usually forget those weekly points and activity points now. The average WWer eats over 1800 calories now.0 -
I've lost weight with WW in the past, but I always gained it back. It was expensive and the point systems have become more complicated and confusing. The points algorithm is proprietary and is the way they ensure customers will continue to pay monthly dues, because they have to pay for all the materials to figure out how many points items have. It seems counterintuitive to be on a diet that gives you no clear answers on what exact nutritional factors go in to point calculation. MFP is transparent. You know exactly how many calories and macros you are consuming. I think MFP is far superior, but it does lack the meeting aspect. Those meetings can be a life line for many dieters. Personally, I don't like meetings and social pressure and I don't like spending money, so MFP works for me.0
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CshellBwell wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »CshellBwell wrote: »The issue I have with WW is that no foods are off limits. The focus should be on the foods that actually nourish and sustain the body, and help you lose weight. Optimum health is what I am after. My husband and I have been able to sustain our weight loss since 2009. He lost over 80 lbs. and I lost over 35 lbs. We've posted before and after photos on our website to prove it. We don't think about being on a "diet". We eat well. We're healthy- no more prescription meds. And we feel great.
http://www.shelbysguide.com/goals/
No foods should be "off limits". I lost 45 pounds by finally allowing myself to eat whatever food I craved at the time, in smaller portions. The foods you claim to eat which "nourish" your body is not why you feel great or are off prescription meds. It is because of the weight loss. I am also off my meds and I did it by finally allowing myself to eat foods I avoided because I thought it would make me fat. I also have pictures to prove it.
Sorry you took the attack mode. Weight loss for me was a result of focusing on the foods that were causing my body harm. I had some serious issues with fibroids and in doing research uncovered that the foods I was eating at the time were causing the symptoms of fibroid growth due to a diet high in estrogenic food. http://www.shelbysguide.com/blog/2014/12/1/a-choice-that-profoundly-changed-my-eating-habits
I do evaluate the foods that I eat. And I am not going to eat food that I know will cause my body harm. Those I consider off limits. I do not feel as if I am depriving myself because I truly relish and enjoy all the foods I eat.
No attack..just a different opinion. These are some of the foods in your blog that you avoid:
•Reduce or eliminate dairy products and meat from your diet.
•Increase vegetable intake, raw and cooked.
•Consume more beans, seeds, and nuts.
•Eat more fresh fruit.
I just disagree. Avoiding certain foods was what "did me in" every time. It's great that it works for you but advocating these drastic and very limiting dietary habits will not likely work for most people. Yes, eat more veggies, eat more lean protein but if you want a bag of chips, or cheese on your pizza you should have it, otherwise it will probably lead to a binge. I believe moderation is the key.
I am pretty sure you get people to sign up for your free newsletter only to sell something at some point. There is no way you do all of that for free...0 -
Here is another "gem" from your blog:
We have a radically, effective and safe drug-free, surgery-free way to lose weight and keep it off forever without exercise.
awesome0 -
I'd have to think smart phones and apps like MFP are making WW somewhat obsolete.
I've always burned out on logging in the past - pre-smartphone - and regressed - it was a pain in the a** to keep lists/spreadsheets, etc. etc. unless you changed your diet to be easier to log.
Info is power and MFP and a smartphone really empower you just like old systems like WW did.0 -
I'd have to think smart phones and apps like MFP are making WW somewhat obsolete.
You actually make a very good point. In the pre-internet days, when logging and tracking calories required either a photographic memory, or a bunch of hard-copy books and endless patience, programs like WW probably were really valuable ways of making a calorie-counting-like program accessible to the masses.
But now we have so many better options. And Weight Watchers sabotaged itself by creating such an opaque program.0 -
I'd have to think smart phones and apps like MFP are making WW somewhat obsolete.
I've always burned out on logging in the past - pre-smartphone - and regressed - it was a pain in the a** to keep lists/spreadsheets, etc. etc. unless you changed your diet to be easier to log.
Info is power and MFP and a smartphone really empower you just like old systems like WW did.
I agree that crowd sourcing and the internet are making WW less relevant. I think it's relevancy will be in the meeting/group aspect of it. They do have an app and barcode scanner so it's not like they don't know it's out there.
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About the zero points foods. Weight Watchers takes advantage of it's exclusive world-wide data when it undertakes a change like this. The zero point program was tested in Europe first and when it was introduced, the European participants outperformed those on the older program.
"The new plan has been in effect for more than a year in continental Europe and has been beta tested by thousands of people across the United States this past year. Results have shown it to deliver significant weight loss, improve risk factors for cardiovascular disease by reducing LDL cholesterol and triglycerides, and improve eating behaviors linked with long-term weight loss and hedonistic hunger."
http://www.todaysdietitian.com/news/exclusive0111.shtml0 -
About the zero points foods. Weight Watchers takes advantage of it's exclusive world-wide data when it undertakes a change like this. The zero point program was tested in Europe first and when it was introduced, the European participants outperformed those on the older program.
"The new plan has been in effect for more than a year in continental Europe and has been beta tested by thousands of people across the United States this past year. Results have shown it to deliver significant weight loss, improve risk factors for cardiovascular disease by reducing LDL cholesterol and triglycerides, and improve eating behaviors linked with long-term weight loss and hedonistic hunger."
http://www.todaysdietitian.com/news/exclusive0111.shtml
Marketingspeak.0 -
WW kind of sucks at apps and internet presence, and I told them that as a lifetime member I was appalled and wouldn't use them anymore.
I don't know if it's because I live in a popular retirement area and went to weekday morning meetings when I went, but it's almost all retirees here that do WW in person.
I do think there's a market for what they do and I think someone will step up and do it better. MFP is terrific but a lot of people need more. Tracking calories is easy if you're quantitatively oriented and comfortable with software but a lot of people aren't.0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »Right, people don't understand the 'free fruit' thing. It's more that your fruit and vegetables for the day are 'pre-logged'. So you can skip them if you want but you can't eat junk food instead.
Which is part of the issue I have with it. I don't like the idea of prelogged foods. I don't always want to eat healthy nor do I. I don't want to pre-log things and use up calories on things I'm not actually eating. At my height and age I don't have a ton of calories to play around with. To each their own, of course.
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leooftheyear wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »How did you lose weight the first time? Was that also WW?
i've been on and off weight watchers for YEARS! and i've always gained the weight back. I lost the weight last year using MFP, then gained it back and started going to WW meetings and lost the first 10lbs and will be continuing with MFP
Thanks for the reply. I hope regardless of what you choose this time will be the last time you (need to) lose weight. cheers0 -
The WW plan seems pretty doable to me. I'm sure that people who are determined to lose could lose weight with that approach.
I considered joining because I liked the idea of meetings - the weigh-ins, the meeting other losers, discussions of how it's going, sharing tips, all of it.
I just didn't want to spend the money. I still think about it, but I'm fairly set on my own plan, which works for me. Maybe I should make my own group, lol.0 -
Heh, I actually agree. I resent that a 100 calorie beer is 4 points but a banana or apple is free. Though clearly if I want to lose weight I should have the banana or apple, because I'm not going to want 3 more after I have it like I would a beer. But sometimes you gotta have the beer. My body sees them the same (weight-wise) so I want to, too.WalkingAlong wrote: »Right, people don't understand the 'free fruit' thing. It's more that your fruit and vegetables for the day are 'pre-logged'. So you can skip them if you want but you can't eat junk food instead.
Which is part of the issue I have with it. I don't like the idea of prelogged foods. I don't always want to eat healthy nor do I. I don't want to pre-log things and use up calories on things I'm not actually eating. At my height and age I don't have a ton of calories to play around with. To each their own, of course.
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I joined TOPS (take off pounds sensibly). Thirty dollars per Year and one dollar per week. Get weighed and meet once a week. Greta accountability and learning discussions. Check online for 800 number and for local meetings. Many TOPS members have combined it with MFP for our weight loss program.0
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My experience with WW for the most part was positive. The main problem I had was that there was no way to track macros without a separate food tracking program. Some can eat a good nutrition profile without it but I couldn't. I ate very healthy foods but my macros were off and I ended up too low in protein and fat. A lot of non fat dairy, fruits and veggies, with some whole grains and very lean meat.0
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CshellBwell wrote: »The issue I have with WW is that no foods are off limits. The focus should be on the foods that actually nourish and sustain the body, and help you lose weight. Optimum health is what I am after. My husband and I have been able to sustain our weight loss since 2009. He lost over 80 lbs. and I lost over 35 lbs. We've posted before and after photos on our website to prove it. We don't think about being on a "diet". We eat well. We're healthy- no more prescription meds. And we feel great.
http://www.shelbysguide.com/goals/
You're assuming everyone shares your goals.
ps: you're getting spam flags because, well, you're spamming.
signed: eats a well balanced, whole foods diet, but knows not everyone shares my goals.0 -
Our daughter lost 100 pounds with WW 9 years ago.She leads 2 meetings a week & has kept the weight off.She knows what her body needs to stay thin,walking 7 days a wk.for a total of 35 miles. Tracking her daily points/calories.
Working out at home or gym when she has time.She has learned so much thru WW. It works for her,but nothing works for everyone,or we'd have no need for any diet plan,free or costly.0 -
Celebrating the non-scale victories are so much more rewarding for me, and unfortunately, the WW meetings only measure success by the number on the scale. I have learned so much more while on MFP, and my successes have far exceeded any number on a scale, which has caused me to stick with this lifestyle change.
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I did WW on and off for years, sometimes with success and others not. No fault of the program, I didn't follow it as I should have. However the money was always the biggest issue for me and since finding MFP, this is where I will stick to continue losing, down to my last 5 lbs, and then maintain going forward.0
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
I did WW for years, off an on. They never promoted chips or unhealthy foods at all but in my state it's a franchise so maybe the corporate locations do. They do 100% promote lifestyle change and good nutrition.I personally despise the Weight Watchers ethos. Sustained weight loss is, in my opinion, about lifestyle change. Weight Watchers promote ways to cram unhealthy food into your diet (chips etc). Its so not about this... the right nutrition is key.
I will try and find the UK Weight Watchers radio advert - which was basically a woman munching her way through food saying how she could still eating chips, cake etc on the Weight Watcher diet. That's what put me off !
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I'm a weight watcher flunky - many, many times over. I am very active, and on w.w. I would always lose the first 3 to 4 weeks and then would hit a massive plateau for weeks, get frustrated and then drop out-hence why I'm a flunky.
After joining MFP, I now realize their calorie restriction was way to low for my lifestyle. I think if I were to go now, (a friend of mine is on it), my points would be 26 points per day. That is approximately 1170 calories per day -give or take. But even if I spread out the weekly extra points over the week, it still wasn't enough daily calories to support how active I am. It was below my BMR. My daily goal today on MFP (1850). I now realize why I stalled out after 3 or 4 weeks as I wasn't fueling my body for how active I was. I found it frustrating that the leaders always had a hard time helping me figure out how many activity points I should be eating for the way I worked out.
For me, even though its taken me a year to kinda figure things out and trust the process, MFP is the one I've stuck to, its free, there is a lot of great advise and support.0 -
I was having trouble losing on my own so I have rejoined ww, using the simply filling method, and since oct 14 I have managed to lose 20 lbs, for me the accountability seems to be key. I had lost with mfp in the past but was struggling and I did have success about 8 years ago. The leaders here are good ,and talk about eating real food, the stuff ww sells is not what I consider healthy , and the leaders have basically admitted that as well. What ever works for you is the right things to do, and sometimes things change, Best of luck with your journey, this is a great group of people0
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47Jacqueline wrote: »I did Weight Watchers for years and think it'at an excellent program. I liked the support, made some friends, one of whom I'm friends with for over 20 years andI loved my instructor. I reached the goal I set and I maintained on it. I went to a Saturday morning meeting where a bunch of us went out for breakfast after every week.
Where I ran into trouble was in maintenance. I couldn't inegrate the points as a way of life. My sister-in-law has done this though. With calories, they're everywhere and you don't need to buy a book to translate them into the amount of food to eat. I just thought it was too much work as a lifestyle.
When I found MFP 3 years ago, I liked that it was free. People can lose weight on any program. I went to Jenny Craig too. The key to weight loss is in maintenance, not losing weight. Anyway you can get to your goal and stay there is good.
You are so correct it is in the maintenance where the weight loss is saved or blown out of the window. Finding that eating life style that makes maintenance a low brainer I think should be our goal vs x pounds by X date.
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I am a huge fan of Weight Watchers. The meetings are great. I got a lot of support from them, and it was really nice hearing stories from other members that sounded a lot like my own. It was nice knowing I wasn't alone because sometimes it felt like I was.
I lost a lot of weight by following Weight Watchers (gained it back, but that's my fault, not theirs). I would recommend them to anyone.
However, I have decided not to go back. One reason being that I prefer counting calories and macros to points...but the biggest reason is that I can't handle the sometimes soul crushing weigh ins every week. A few years back, as long as I followed the plan properly I would lose at least a pound a week, every week. But now I might lose 2lbs in one week, gain half a pound the next, lose half a pound the next, etc. It's too hard mentally on me. I need to focus on non scale victories more, and I just felt like Weight Watchers makes it seem like the scale is the end all and be all. Does that make sense??0 -
I did WW for a while a few years ago and lost 36lbs. Left due to job change and it was too far to drive. Tried to get back into it when they went to the newest system - it didn't make sense to me. Fruits and some vegetables that had points before no longer have points (and I know for a fact I get in trouble over eating fruits). I gave it the old college try for a few months and came back to using MFP. And MFP is free...can't beat that.0
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Totally. I'm very similar. Love the programs overall, but hate some aspects of it enough to not do it anymore.0
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Hi all, I found this thread coming back to MFP after going back to WW in August. I just got a Garmin Vivosmart which syncs w/ MFP so I figured, what the hey? I'll double-track for a bit and see where I'm at. I just tracked a typical day on WW for me at 26 pointsplus here on MFP and holy crap, it was like 1300 calories. I work out daily and burn between 300-600 on those days. Am I alone in discovering how little food WW actually is allowing for, if you don't incorporate weeklies and/or Activity Points? I have been using most (or all) of my 49 weeklies on the weekends. I'm working on trying to not go nuts on the weekends (long-established habit, and have binge-eating issues)... Could these habits have partially come from years on WW [lost 25 lbs from 2008-2010] and was a Lifetime member until they switched from Momentum to PointsPlus) where my intake was far too low for my activity level? Who knows. Curious if anyone else was shocked to see how low their intake was when shown in calories.
Also: I feel I need the weekly meetings, at least for now. Am I crazy to be considering going to WW meetings but following MFP? Anyone else do this? LOL0
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