Strength training noob - please help
toast4nat
Posts: 16 Member
Hello everyone,
I'm seeing nice definition in my arms from lifting and in my legs from running, but my major problem areas (midsection and back) are still flabby as all get out. I want to tighten it all up and cut the rolls off of myself.
So I've decided it's time for a change in my exercise routine to try and cut more body fat and build more muscle. For the past three months I've been working out 5 days a week, 30 minutes of cardio and 15 minutes of upper body dumbbell lifting. I figured I need to switch these two, to only 15 minute cardio and 30 minute weightlifting. I'm also on day 10 of a 30 day ab challenge.
I've also already made plans of upping my protein intake significantly and cutting out unnecessary carbs. I'm also going to be taking whey protein after workouts.
What I am hoping for is any suggestions for at least 30 minutes upper body and lower body workouts that build muscle and help to burn fat. The thing is, I'm limited by what I have in my gym; dumbbells, leg curl machine, arm press machine, tread mill, stationary bike, and elliptical.
I find that have to have a very strict and set routine to stay motivated, and right now it's like I'm trying to grasp at straws. Links to websites, already set weekly routines, and general advice for gaining muscle/losing fat would be appreciated.
Here are my current stats:
5'2"
130lbs
~26% bf
Thanks
I'm seeing nice definition in my arms from lifting and in my legs from running, but my major problem areas (midsection and back) are still flabby as all get out. I want to tighten it all up and cut the rolls off of myself.
So I've decided it's time for a change in my exercise routine to try and cut more body fat and build more muscle. For the past three months I've been working out 5 days a week, 30 minutes of cardio and 15 minutes of upper body dumbbell lifting. I figured I need to switch these two, to only 15 minute cardio and 30 minute weightlifting. I'm also on day 10 of a 30 day ab challenge.
I've also already made plans of upping my protein intake significantly and cutting out unnecessary carbs. I'm also going to be taking whey protein after workouts.
What I am hoping for is any suggestions for at least 30 minutes upper body and lower body workouts that build muscle and help to burn fat. The thing is, I'm limited by what I have in my gym; dumbbells, leg curl machine, arm press machine, tread mill, stationary bike, and elliptical.
I find that have to have a very strict and set routine to stay motivated, and right now it's like I'm trying to grasp at straws. Links to websites, already set weekly routines, and general advice for gaining muscle/losing fat would be appreciated.
Here are my current stats:
5'2"
130lbs
~26% bf
Thanks
0
Replies
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Go to another gym. That sounds terrible. You'd be better off with bodyweight training than trying to design a meaningful program around those things.
Well, if the dumbbells go heavy enough (100 lbs or so) and there's a bench available you could try doing any "normal" weightlifting routine but just use the dumbbells instead of barbells. You'd want to do one legged bulgarian squats instead of regular squats and deadlift with the dumbbells hanging to the sides, but that's fine.
Also, don't lift 5 times a week. Three days is fine, Monday-Wednesday-Friday and rest or light-moderate cardio on the other days.0 -
Everyone is probably going to say lift heavy. I would too, but I also know that I had great results working out without heavy weights. There are a lot of body weight exercises you can do (lunges, pistol squats, glute bridges, push-ups, pull-ups, etc.) that don't require changing gyms. Many things you can do at home. I started with 30 Day Shred, ripped in 30, a FIRM dvd and a Denise Austin Body Boot Camp I borrowed from the library. They can all be done with 3-5lb hand weights.0
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a couple things…
First- It is almost impossible to build significant muscle mass and lose fat. The reason for this is that stye are opposite processes. To lose fat you need a calorie deficit, and to build muscle you need a calorie surplus. Think of it this way - can you build a house out of the same material and tear it down at the same time?
The only caveat to this is that obese beginners may experience newbies gains, but those are minimal and will cease within about four to six weeks.
Second - What are "unnecessary" carbs? If you are going to be lifting then your body is going to use carbs as a source for energy, so I would not worry about cutting them out. I would just make sure that you are hitting your calorie and macro targets.
Third - i would suggest getting on a structured program like strong lifts, 5x5, etc. New rules of lifting for woman is supposed to be a great resources too. Make sure that you build a program around compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, overhead press, rows, pullups/chinups, etc.
Finally - Find a new gym, seriously
And choose what is more important to you - losing fat or building some muscle. If you want to lose fat continue eating in a deficit and lifting heavy until you get your body fat % to your desired range, and then do a bulk to add some muscle…
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I started lifting when I was 130ish/25% BF/size 8 (I'm also 5'3). I'm down to a 4 consistently; and have started to buy size 2s.
Pick a program; I did New Rules, Strong Lifts, and am now doing 5/3/1 for squats/dls. The 2 biggest factors that have helped me have been heavy lifting (on a program) and eating at 100+ grams of protein on non-lifting days 150+ on lifting. If you have limited access to equipment at your current gym; I would change gyms if possible.0 -
pick a legitimate program, there were several listed in the previous posts, the one you are currently trying does not make sense according to your goals.
What are your goals?
you cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time.0 -
a couple things…
First- It is almost impossible to build significant muscle mass and lose fat. The reason for this is that stye are opposite processes. To lose fat you need a calorie deficit, and to build muscle you need a calorie surplus. Think of it this way - can you build a house out of the same material and tear it down at the same time?
The only caveat to this is that obese beginners may experience newbies gains, but those are minimal and will cease within about four to six weeks.
Second - What are "unnecessary" carbs? If you are going to be lifting then your body is going to use carbs as a source for energy, so I would not worry about cutting them out. I would just make sure that you are hitting your calorie and macro targets.
Third - i would suggest getting on a structured program like strong lifts, 5x5, etc. New rules of lifting for woman is supposed to be a great resources too. Make sure that you build a program around compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, overhead press, rows, pullups/chinups, etc.
Finally - Find a new gym, seriously And choose what is more important to you - losing fat or building some muscle. If you want to lose fat continue eating in a deficit and lifting heavy until you get your body fat % to your desired range, and then do a bulk to add some muscle…
^This. All of it. OP - You are approaching the issue as if it were an easy process. Increasing protein and changing your training split won't solve your issue of unwanted BF in your midsection. There are no magic "toning" exercises that you can do. As stated above, you need to pick your poison - Sacrifice muscle gain by cutting calories (but still lift heavy) to lose fat, or increase calories to gain muscle, but keep the unwanted bf.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »a couple things…
First- It is almost impossible to build significant muscle mass and lose fat. The reason for this is that stye are opposite processes. To lose fat you need a calorie deficit, and to build muscle you need a calorie surplus. Think of it this way - can you build a house out of the same material and tear it down at the same time?
The only caveat to this is that obese beginners may experience newbies gains, but those are minimal and will cease within about four to six weeks.
Second - What are "unnecessary" carbs? If you are going to be lifting then your body is going to use carbs as a source for energy, so I would not worry about cutting them out. I would just make sure that you are hitting your calorie and macro targets.
Third - i would suggest getting on a structured program like strong lifts, 5x5, etc. New rules of lifting for woman is supposed to be a great resources too. Make sure that you build a program around compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, overhead press, rows, pullups/chinups, etc.
Finally - Find a new gym, seriously And choose what is more important to you - losing fat or building some muscle. If you want to lose fat continue eating in a deficit and lifting heavy until you get your body fat % to your desired range, and then do a bulk to add some muscle…
^This. All of it. OP - You are approaching the issue as if it were an easy process. Increasing protein and changing your training split won't solve your issue of unwanted BF in your midsection. There are no magic "toning" exercises that you can do. As stated above, you need to pick your poison - Sacrifice muscle gain by cutting calories (but still lift heavy) to lose fat, or increase calories to gain muscle, but keep the unwanted bf.
Came to check on thread. See Diesel and NDJ have spoken. Leaving thread as nothing more to say.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »a couple things…
First- It is almost impossible to build significant muscle mass and lose fat. The reason for this is that stye are opposite processes. To lose fat you need a calorie deficit, and to build muscle you need a calorie surplus. Think of it this way - can you build a house out of the same material and tear it down at the same time?
The only caveat to this is that obese beginners may experience newbies gains, but those are minimal and will cease within about four to six weeks.
Second - What are "unnecessary" carbs? If you are going to be lifting then your body is going to use carbs as a source for energy, so I would not worry about cutting them out. I would just make sure that you are hitting your calorie and macro targets.
Third - i would suggest getting on a structured program like strong lifts, 5x5, etc. New rules of lifting for woman is supposed to be a great resources too. Make sure that you build a program around compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, overhead press, rows, pullups/chinups, etc.
Finally - Find a new gym, seriously And choose what is more important to you - losing fat or building some muscle. If you want to lose fat continue eating in a deficit and lifting heavy until you get your body fat % to your desired range, and then do a bulk to add some muscle…
^This. All of it. OP - You are approaching the issue as if it were an easy process. Increasing protein and changing your training split won't solve your issue of unwanted BF in your midsection. There are no magic "toning" exercises that you can do. As stated above, you need to pick your poison - Sacrifice muscle gain by cutting calories (but still lift heavy) to lose fat, or increase calories to gain muscle, but keep the unwanted bf.
Came to check on thread. See Diesel and NDJ have spoken. Leaving thread as nothing more to say.
Ha, I learned from the best brother!0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »a couple things…
First- It is almost impossible to build significant muscle mass and lose fat. The reason for this is that stye are opposite processes. To lose fat you need a calorie deficit, and to build muscle you need a calorie surplus. Think of it this way - can you build a house out of the same material and tear it down at the same time?
The only caveat to this is that obese beginners may experience newbies gains, but those are minimal and will cease within about four to six weeks.
Second - What are "unnecessary" carbs? If you are going to be lifting then your body is going to use carbs as a source for energy, so I would not worry about cutting them out. I would just make sure that you are hitting your calorie and macro targets.
Third - i would suggest getting on a structured program like strong lifts, 5x5, etc. New rules of lifting for woman is supposed to be a great resources too. Make sure that you build a program around compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, overhead press, rows, pullups/chinups, etc.
Finally - Find a new gym, seriously And choose what is more important to you - losing fat or building some muscle. If you want to lose fat continue eating in a deficit and lifting heavy until you get your body fat % to your desired range, and then do a bulk to add some muscle…
^This. All of it. OP - You are approaching the issue as if it were an easy process. Increasing protein and changing your training split won't solve your issue of unwanted BF in your midsection. There are no magic "toning" exercises that you can do. As stated above, you need to pick your poison - Sacrifice muscle gain by cutting calories (but still lift heavy) to lose fat, or increase calories to gain muscle, but keep the unwanted bf.
Came to check on thread. See Diesel and NDJ have spoken. Leaving thread as nothing more to say.
*Drops mic emphatically*0 -
a couple things…
First- It is almost impossible to build significant muscle mass and lose fat. The reason for this is that stye are opposite processes. To lose fat you need a calorie deficit, and to build muscle you need a calorie surplus. Think of it this way - can you build a house out of the same material and tear it down at the same time?
The only caveat to this is that obese beginners may experience newbies gains, but those are minimal and will cease within about four to six weeks.
Second - What are "unnecessary" carbs? If you are going to be lifting then your body is going to use carbs as a source for energy, so I would not worry about cutting them out. I would just make sure that you are hitting your calorie and macro targets.
Third - i would suggest getting on a structured program like strong lifts, 5x5, etc. New rules of lifting for woman is supposed to be a great resources too. Make sure that you build a program around compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, overhead press, rows, pullups/chinups, etc.
Finally - Find a new gym, seriously And choose what is more important to you - losing fat or building some muscle. If you want to lose fat continue eating in a deficit and lifting heavy until you get your body fat % to your desired range, and then do a bulk to add some muscle…
and I have nothing to add because this is pretty much it.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »a couple things…
First- It is almost impossible to build significant muscle mass and lose fat. The reason for this is that stye are opposite processes. To lose fat you need a calorie deficit, and to build muscle you need a calorie surplus. Think of it this way - can you build a house out of the same material and tear it down at the same time?
The only caveat to this is that obese beginners may experience newbies gains, but those are minimal and will cease within about four to six weeks.
Second - What are "unnecessary" carbs? If you are going to be lifting then your body is going to use carbs as a source for energy, so I would not worry about cutting them out. I would just make sure that you are hitting your calorie and macro targets.
Third - i would suggest getting on a structured program like strong lifts, 5x5, etc. New rules of lifting for woman is supposed to be a great resources too. Make sure that you build a program around compound lifts - deadlifts, squats, overhead press, rows, pullups/chinups, etc.
Finally - Find a new gym, seriously And choose what is more important to you - losing fat or building some muscle. If you want to lose fat continue eating in a deficit and lifting heavy until you get your body fat % to your desired range, and then do a bulk to add some muscle…
^This. All of it. OP - You are approaching the issue as if it were an easy process. Increasing protein and changing your training split won't solve your issue of unwanted BF in your midsection. There are no magic "toning" exercises that you can do. As stated above, you need to pick your poison - Sacrifice muscle gain by cutting calories (but still lift heavy) to lose fat, or increase calories to gain muscle, but keep the unwanted bf.
Came to check on thread. See Diesel and NDJ have spoken. Leaving thread as nothing more to say.
Yup--great advice already given to the OP.0 -
Hi from a 58 year old who continues to try to play rugby. Since you have access to a treadmill, suggest trying increasing gradient, carry 2 5lb dumbells or less, Walk one minute carrying dumbells, continue walking one minute overhead press with the dumbells , one minute lateral lifts with the dumbells, one miute bicep curls with dumbells and finally one minute punchng with the dumbells.
The increased gradient make you slow down a touch but the added weight and the variety of lifting on the move is a good challenge.
Do for 30 mins and sraight off do a plank to exhaustion.
Do this 3 times a week and you will feel stronger and start to see definition. Your heart rate will stay in fat burning range
When it gets easier increase gradient through the stages and increase the weights1lb at a time.0 -
Ok time to clarify, as I said, I'm a noob with no idea what I'm doing.dieselbyte wrote: »As stated above, you need to pick your poison - Sacrifice muscle gain by cutting calories (but still lift heavy) to lose fat, or increase calories to gain muscle, but keep the unwanted bf.
I want to lose fat first and foremost, I was under the impression that building muscle would do that, but if they're in opposition of each other then yeah, getting rid of fat is first.
So does that mean what I have been doing, 30 min cardio with some weightlifting, and calories at a deficit, was correct? If so, why am I not losing fat? Like I said, I've been at this for three months, and have lost 8 lbs, but no fat loss that I can see. I was told in the weightloss forum that I'm losing both fat and lean body mass, but I just can't see it. The only change I've seen is in my legs and arms.
I can't change gyms; my apartment gym is free and, well, in walking distance. I can't afford any dues and the closest gym means a car ride, which is a no go for me.
Thanks for everyone for replying and entertaining my absolute lack of knowledge.
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eat at a slight deficit and do compound exercises (squats, deadlifts, rows....) to maintain the maximal amount of muscle mass, but the loss of muscle mass will happen.0
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Bodyweight exercises. Have you considered ditching the gym and working out from home or anywhere that has a door/swingset/tree? I use the Unit 2.0 from TruFit and I work out at parks and in the forest next to my house. It is just body suspension training but it works great and its easy.
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Bodyweight exercises. Have you considered ditching the gym and working out from home or anywhere that has a door/swingset/tree? I use the Unit 2.0 from TruFit and I work out at parks and in the forest next to my house. It is just body suspension training but it works great and its easy.
I'll look into this. Thanks.
My gym does have a pull down bar/chin up machine but unfortunately it's been out of order for about a month, and I'm short, I don't think I could even reach the chin up bar.
At this point, I'm pretty confused. I feel as if I'm getting mixed messages. Some people are telling me to lose body fat I need to up protein and lift heavy; others are saying to lose body fat I need to cardio and be at a calorie deficit. Which is it?0 -
To lose fat, calorie deficit. Up protein because you'll be in deficit. Lift heavy to maintain muscle during weight loss (to keep it more "fat loss" than weight loss). Cardio for cardiovascular health and to give you some more calories to eat in case your deficit is leaving you too hungry. Your loss so far is great, keep it up.0
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FromHereOnOut wrote: »To lose fat, calorie deficit. Up protein because you'll be in deficit. Lift heavy to maintain muscle during weight loss (to keep it more "fat loss" than weight loss). Cardio for cardiovascular health and to give you some more calories to eat in case your deficit is leaving you too hungry. Your loss so far is great, keep it up.
I agree with this!
I'll look into this. Thanks.
I think they're website is www.gettrufit.com0 -
Ok time to clarify, as I said, I'm a noob with no idea what I'm doing.dieselbyte wrote: »As stated above, you need to pick your poison - Sacrifice muscle gain by cutting calories (but still lift heavy) to lose fat, or increase calories to gain muscle, but keep the unwanted bf.
I want to lose fat first and foremost, I was under the impression that building muscle would do that, but if they're in opposition of each other then yeah, getting rid of fat is first.
So does that mean what I have been doing, 30 min cardio with some weightlifting, and calories at a deficit, was correct? If so, why am I not losing fat? Like I said, I've been at this for three months, and have lost 8 lbs, but no fat loss that I can see. I was told in the weightloss forum that I'm losing both fat and lean body mass, but I just can't see it. The only change I've seen is in my legs and arms.
I can't change gyms; my apartment gym is free and, well, in walking distance. I can't afford any dues and the closest gym means a car ride, which is a no go for me.
Thanks for everyone for replying and entertaining my absolute lack of knowledge.
few questions..
Do you own a food scale? if yes, do you weigh/log/measure everything?
what is your current % of fats/carbs/proteins (macros)?
Are you on a structured weight lifting program of have you just developed one yourself?
Are you doing TDEE method or MFP method?0 -
Bodyweight exercises. Have you considered ditching the gym and working out from home or anywhere that has a door/swingset/tree? I use the Unit 2.0 from TruFit and I work out at parks and in the forest next to my house. It is just body suspension training but it works great and its easy.
I'll look into this. Thanks.
My gym does have a pull down bar/chin up machine but unfortunately it's been out of order for about a month, and I'm short, I don't think I could even reach the chin up bar.
At this point, I'm pretty confused. I feel as if I'm getting mixed messages. Some people are telling me to lose body fat I need to up protein and lift heavy; others are saying to lose body fat I need to cardio and be at a calorie deficit. Which is it?
You need a calorie deficit to lose fat.
You don't need cardio in order to lose fat. However, it can be a tool to help the process along.
Lifting weights in a deficit will help preserve LBM.
Make sure you have sufficient protein intake while in a deficit.
That's all.0 -
Bodyweight exercises. Have you considered ditching the gym and working out from home or anywhere that has a door/swingset/tree? I use the Unit 2.0 from TruFit and I work out at parks and in the forest next to my house. It is just body suspension training but it works great and its easy.
I'll look into this. Thanks.
My gym does have a pull down bar/chin up machine but unfortunately it's been out of order for about a month, and I'm short, I don't think I could even reach the chin up bar.
At this point, I'm pretty confused. I feel as if I'm getting mixed messages. Some people are telling me to lose body fat I need to up protein and lift heavy; others are saying to lose body fat I need to cardio and be at a calorie deficit. Which is it?
probably a combination of both ..
If you are newb then maybe a three day total body program would be a good place to start that is build around compounds. Something where you are squatting, doing chest press, overhead press, rows, etc and working in the 8-10 rep range and then cardio on off days...
broscienc and powerlifter what do you think?0 -
Yea, I'd say fine with a full body program 3x week.
Depends on the equipment that she has access to as well.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Yea, I'd say fine with a full body program 3x week.
Depends on the equipment that she has access to as well.
oh yea that is right...
OP - you still need a new gym...0 -
I want to lose fat first and foremost, I was under the impression that building muscle would do that, but if they're in opposition of each other then yeah, getting rid of fat is first.
probably a combination of both ..
If you are newb then maybe a three day total body program would be a good place to start that is build around compounds. Something where you are squatting, doing chest press, overhead press, rows, etc and working in the 8-10 rep range and then cardio on off days...
broscienc and powerlifter what do you think?
I think it's expectation vs understanding... ndj is giving you great advice here, but he also understands why you would center your training around compound lifts and incorporate cardio, and also knows what to expect from a cut. OP, your expectation of building muscle and losing fat may be to look "ripped" or "toned". The fact is losing fat will reveal muscle, thereby making you look "toned". However, you may not have built significant muscle to achive the look you desire. You have to understand that you won't build muscle in a deficit (your muscles won't grow). Also understand that if you don't incorporate resistance training in your cut, you can lose any LBM you have, and end up with a skinny fat look.
Bottom line, do what you can with the limited resources you have in your gym. Resistance train to retain as much LBM as possible. Get to a desired weight, then focus on caloric surplus to increase muscle mass. Cut again.0 -
It's all starting to make sense now, and I really appreciate all the responses.
I will do what the majority of you suggest; lift heavy 3 days a week to maintain LBM and cardio on the other days. I'll up my protein and go with a calorie deficit.
I'm not looking for a super toned body, I just want to to get to a point where I don't have rolls, that's my goal for now. After that I'll look into getting more toned, if I want.
In response to ndj's questions
1) I do not have a food scale but I do log my meals daily, and try to stick to USDA measurements.
2) I believe currently I'm set to 25/40/35 for fat/carbs/protein percents. I really am at a total loss when it comes to these things though.
3) This is the weightlifting routine I've been doing: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet14.htm
4) I'm doing MFP0 -
You can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. It won't just be very effective, but there are lots of studies showing that this can be done, beginners and more experienced trainers alike. You can improve your results by cycling your calories, that is, eat at maintenance or 100-200 kcal over on the days that you lift and then 500-700 under on days you don't lift.
Whatever you do, it is important that you lift or do heavy bodyweight exercises and to eat enough. Don't try going on a super low calorie diet, you'll just end up doing real damage to yourself if you do that while training hard.0 -
Bodyweight exercises. Have you considered ditching the gym and working out from home or anywhere that has a door/swingset/tree? I use the Unit 2.0 from TruFit and I work out at parks and in the forest next to my house. It is just body suspension training but it works great and its easy.
I'll look into this. Thanks.
My gym does have a pull down bar/chin up machine but unfortunately it's been out of order for about a month, and I'm short, I don't think I could even reach the chin up bar.
At this point, I'm pretty confused. I feel as if I'm getting mixed messages. Some people are telling me to lose body fat I need to up protein and lift heavy; others are saying to lose body fat I need to cardio and be at a calorie deficit. Which is it?
probably a combination of both ..
If you are newb then maybe a three day total body program would be a good place to start that is build around compounds. Something where you are squatting, doing chest press, overhead press, rows, etc and working in the 8-10 rep range and then cardio on off days...
broscienc and powerlifter what do you think?
One thing I would add - for your cardio days - instead of "steady state" cardio I suggest you do 30 mins of HIIT (interval training) or tabata style training - suggested to be much more efficient for fat burning.
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You can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. It won't just be very effective, but there are lots of studies showing that this can be done, beginners and more experienced trainers alike. You can improve your results by cycling your calories, that is, eat at maintenance or 100-200 kcal over on the days that you lift and then 500-700 under on days you don't lift.
Whatever you do, it is important that you lift or do heavy bodyweight exercises and to eat enough. Don't try going on a super low calorie diet, you'll just end up doing real damage to yourself if you do that while training hard.
Please link these studies. I've only come across one, based on OLYMPIC athletes in a super-strict testing environment (and olympic athletes don't take steroids, right?) It's an extremely slow process or none at all.
You do realize that muscle is torn down in the gym, and built in recovery? Therefore, your calorie cylcing recommendation of 200 over on liftting days and 700 under on off days doesn't make sense.
Strength gains can be made, but this is more of a function of CNS adaptation, improved leverages, range of motion etc.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »You can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. It won't just be very effective, but there are lots of studies showing that this can be done, beginners and more experienced trainers alike. You can improve your results by cycling your calories, that is, eat at maintenance or 100-200 kcal over on the days that you lift and then 500-700 under on days you don't lift.
Whatever you do, it is important that you lift or do heavy bodyweight exercises and to eat enough. Don't try going on a super low calorie diet, you'll just end up doing real damage to yourself if you do that while training hard.
Please link these studies. I've only come across one, based on OLYMPIC athletes in a super-strict testing environment (and olympic athletes don't take steroids, right?) It's an extremely slow process or none at all.
You do realize that muscle is torn down in the gym, and built in recovery? Therefore, your calorie cylcing recommendation of 200 over on liftting days and 700 under on off days doesn't make sense.
Strength gains can be made, but this is more of a function of CNS adaptation, improved leverages, range of motion etc.
Yea, I don't know about ALOT of studies. I'm aware of that Norwegian Olympic study, and a few on obese individuals but haven't seen many other published ones (which would fit into one of the wide spread exemptions obese, retraining, totally new to training.
However, I do recall Brad Schoenfeld addressing the issue on his Facebook wall a few weeks back saying it possible in trained athletes to have site specific hypertrophy occur while in a deficit. However, there are a lot of factors... can't be a substantial deficit, training needs to be progressive and at a high enough level to product stress and adaptation and much more. So, I interpreted it as possible but far from optimal. Even then, it won't be a very appreciable amount.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »Please link these studies. I've only come across one, based on OLYMPIC athletes in a super-strict testing environment (and olympic athletes don't take steroids, right?) It's an extremely slow process or none at all.
Definitely not among those that I was referring to. I'll see if I have them somewhere in my history or if I can find some of them again.LolBroScience wrote: »However, there are a lot of factors... can't be a substantial deficit, training needs to be progressive and at a high enough level to product stress and adaptation and much more. So, I interpreted it as possible but far from optimal. Even then, it won't be a very appreciable amount.
Exactly. I seem to recall one set of results were something like gaining 2,5 lbs lean mass and losing 7 lbs fat while eating 2000 kcal vs. gaining 8 lbs lean mass while eating 4000 kcal. I might have the exact figures wrong, but the scale should be right.
You can obviously fine tune the cycling as well. For most people it is easiest to manage they way I wrote, but sure, if you want and can it would be better to maintain that excess for around 24-36 hours after lifting and then cutting until you lift again. It is just so much easier to calculate that on a daily basis, so that's why I recommended that.0
This discussion has been closed.
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