Completely new to bulking- Need advice
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Brynich
Posts: 65 Member
Hi everyone. I know most people don't like to read long posts so I'll try to keep this short. I'm ready to end a year long cut (started at 235 lbs and now in the 155-160 lb range) and start bulking. I am going to join a gym, and will be free to spend extensive periods of time there daily. I have never set foot in a gym before, so I'm looking to maximize what I've seen referred to as "newbie gains" on this forum. I'd like to make this process as efficient as possible and gain muscle quickly, but I don't even know where to begin. I have no idea what sort of weight gain goals to set per week, what routine to follow (such as Ice Cream Fitness), whether to take supplements such as whey protein or not, etc. So could someone please make some recommendations on what to do, or point me in the direction where I can find what I seek? I would be ever so grateful. Thank you for your energy and time.
P.S. If it makes a difference, I mainly want to focus on abs, pecs and arms (that is not to say that I don't want to work on the other areas as well, because everywhere is important).
P.S. If it makes a difference, I mainly want to focus on abs, pecs and arms (that is not to say that I don't want to work on the other areas as well, because everywhere is important).
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I'd like to make this process as efficient as possible and gain muscle quickly, but I don't even know where to begin.
This statement with the bolded italics jumped out as a bit of a red flag, so I thought I would address it.
Patience, grasshopper. Gaining 30 ounces of muscle weight per month would be setting the bar high, and the process is going to take time. Working the upper body a couple of days per week, and the lower body a couple of "other" days per week to get going would be my recommendation - and it shouldn't require extensive periods of time there daily. An hour per session would be plenty to get going.
I would suggest starting with an adaption phase of working on proper form on all lifts with bars only in some cases and lighter weights for the first 2 - 3 weeks (if not 4 weeks) before moving on with other phases. Don't worry if everyone else in the gym has lots of plates loaded up - you'll get there in time. I'm a big believer in periodization - be it weight training, or cardio training - to avoid injury, get proper form, build a base, and then progress from there. What's from there? From there meaning - I would move into volume phase (hypertrophy) for a solid month where you are lifting a lot of volume.
Now that you are at the end of your cut - how long have you been maintaining your current weight in the 155-160 range?0 -
As a word of advice, I would be cautious of posting a link to your website, as I think advertising is frowned upon on these forums.jmartr29399 wrote: »Hey there! I used to be a big time bulker, and I was usually able to help people out as best I could. First of all, it depends on how much you want to gain. You should really check out my new website with a bunch of free/awesome info..its www.nowheyfitness.com If you were that heavy long ago, I don't think it would take much to get back, but I will cut to the chase. If you are trying to do this naturally (I would assume lol), you need to concentrate on lifting heavy weights, and doing less reps. Before that, I would advise you find your One Rep Max on every exercise, for every body part. From there, you can use a formula to find out what weights you should be using, and how much you should increase on every set. Are you familiar with what foods to eat, how many calories...etc?
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SingingSingleTracker wrote: »I'd like to make this process as efficient as possible and gain muscle quickly, but I don't even know where to begin.
This statement with the bolded italics jumped out as a bit of a red flag, so I thought I would address it.
Patience, grasshopper. Gaining 30 ounces of muscle weight per month would be setting the bar high, and the process is going to take time. Working the upper body a couple of days per week, and the lower body a couple of "other" days per week to get going would be my recommendation - and it shouldn't require extensive periods of time there daily. An hour per session would be plenty to get going.
I would suggest starting with an adaption phase of working on proper form on all lifts with bars only in some cases and lighter weights for the first 2 - 3 weeks (if not 4 weeks) before moving on with other phases. Don't worry if everyone else in the gym has lots of plates loaded up - you'll get there in time. I'm a big believer in periodization - be it weight training, or cardio training - to avoid injury, get proper form, build a base, and then progress from there. What's from there? From there meaning - I would move into volume phase (hypertrophy) for a solid month where you are lifting a lot of volume.
Now that you are at the end of your cut - how long have you been maintaining your current weight in the 155-160 range?
Thank you for the quick reply. I'm prepared to be patient, I just thought that with "newbie gains" the process could be expedited, but if not, it's not a problem. When you say a couple days, do you think 3 days upper body, 3 days lower would be too much? I ask because I've noticed most people say they only go to the gym 3-4 times per week.
Regarding hypertrophy, is there a difference in lifting for strength and lifting for size? I always thought they went hand in hand but from sifting through quite a few posts it seems that they're separate things and you work on each aspect individual. Is this so? If they are indeed separate aspects, would hypertrophy simply be for aesthetic appeal (as strength would be worked on separately)? Also, does this mean that one could be very strong but still relatively small in size? I'm sorry for the barrage of questions.
I've been maintaining for about a month.
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jmartr29399 wrote: »Hey there! I used to be a big time bulker, and I was usually able to help people out as best I could. First of all, it depends on how much you want to gain. You should really check out my new website with a bunch of free/awesome info..its www.nowheyfitness.com If you were that heavy long ago, I don't think it would take much to get back, but I will cut to the chase. If you are trying to do this naturally (I would assume lol), you need to concentrate on lifting heavy weights, and doing less reps. Before that, I would advise you find your One Rep Max on every exercise, for every body part. From there, you can use a formula to find out what weights you should be using, and how much you should increase on every set. Are you familiar with what foods to eat, how many calories...etc?
Thanks! I'll check it out in a few. Would you say it's necessary to enlist a personal trainer? No, I actually have no idea about what foods to eat (such as what my macro percentages should be, and so on). I should be eating at a 500 calorie surplus to gain 1 pound per week, right? Or is that too much? What are the pros/cons of a clean bulk versus a dirty bulk?
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grantevans11 wrote: »Thank you for the quick reply. I'm prepared to be patient, I just thought that with "newbie gains" the process could be expedited, but if not, it's not a problem. When you say a couple days, do you think 3 days upper body, 3 days lower would be too much? I ask because I've noticed most people say they only go to the gym 3-4 times per week.
I go the gym 5 times a week - it's important to give your body time to recover! I train back & bi's on Monday, rest Tuesday, hamstrings & calves on Wednesday, chest and tri's Thursday, traps, shoulders & core on Friday, rest Saturday and quads and calves on Sunday. Set yourself a plan to follow and stick to it for 8 weeks or so and have a look at your results at the end of this period.
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I'd start with a slightly smaller surplus- 250-350- 500 is a fairly big jump- and from what I've read for men- the 400 range is better. Trick is finding a surplus that's not so much to make you gain insane fat quickly- but not so little it just gets folded into maintenance- starting at 250-350 is a good bet.
There is no "right macro split" for bulking- even if you split it 33% evenly- and hit it on the head EVERY time- but weren't in surplus- you'd never gain. Surplus trumps macro splits in a bulk.
Carbs and protein- people get really bent about protein- but really it's more important for weight loss than gains. carbs help with insulin spikes which helps build muscles- so make sure you're getting carbs.
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Thanks for all the helpful comments. Can anyone tell me what's the benefit of doing the Hypertrophy Specific Workout versus the Starting Strength one?0
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I'd start with a slightly smaller surplus- 250-350- 500 is a fairly big jump- and from what I've read for men- the 400 range is better. Trick is finding a surplus that's not so much to make you gain insane fat quickly- but not so little it just gets folded into maintenance- starting at 250-350 is a good bet.
There is no "right macro split" for bulking- even if you split it 33% evenly- and hit it on the head EVERY time- but weren't in surplus- you'd never gain. Surplus trumps macro splits in a bulk.
Carbs and protein- people get really bent about protein- but really it's more important for weight loss than gains. carbs help with insulin spikes which helps build muscles- so make sure you're getting carbs.
Thank you so much. I definitely will do a smaller surplus. I have a question tho, is it true that as a newbie I can gain muscle while eating at maintenance or even a deficit? If it is true, how substantial would these be?
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grantevans11 wrote: »grantevans11 wrote: »Thank you for the quick reply. I'm prepared to be patient, I just thought that with "newbie gains" the process could be expedited, but if not, it's not a problem. When you say a couple days, do you think 3 days upper body, 3 days lower would be too much? I ask because I've noticed most people say they only go to the gym 3-4 times per week.
I go the gym 5 times a week - it's important to give your body time to recover! I train back & bi's on Monday, rest Tuesday, hamstrings & calves on Wednesday, chest and tri's Thursday, traps, shoulders & core on Friday, rest Saturday and quads and calves on Sunday. Set yourself a plan to follow and stick to it for 8 weeks or so and have a look at your results at the end of this period.
Thank you very much. Would you say 1 day of recovery per week is enough for a beginner? I heard it's likely that one would need more recovery time the more advanced that one gets, because the training gets more intense. Thus a beginner shouldn't need that much recovery time, right?
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Thanks for all the helpful comments. Can anyone tell me what's the benefit of doing the Hypertrophy Specific Workout versus the Starting Strength one?
As a new lifter, a basic full body would be fine for you. I would look at something like AllPro (link here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843) or StrongLifts, at least at first.
How old are you? I ask as it may be relevant to the appropriate size of your surplus - however, assuming you are relatively young, and especially as you are a new lifter, a surplus of 500 calories is probably fine at first as much will go towards muscle gain (assuming you stick to a good program and get enough protein) - make the most of it while you can - but I would not look to be at that level for long - scale the surplus back after a short while.0 -
Thanks for all the helpful comments. Can anyone tell me what's the benefit of doing the Hypertrophy Specific Workout versus the Starting Strength one?
As a new lifter, a basic full body would be fine for you. I would look at something like AllPro (link here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843) or StrongLifts, at least at first.
How old are you? I ask as it may be relevant to the appropriate size of your surplus - however, assuming you are relatively young, and especially as you are a new lifter, a surplus of 500 calories is probably fine at first as much will go towards muscle gain (assuming you stick to a good program and get enough protein) - make the most of it while you can - but I would not look to be at that level for long - scale the surplus back after a short while.
Thanks for the link. How would I know the potential difference in results between the AllPro and StrongLifts programs though (so that I can know which one better suits my needs/goals)? Surely something must differentiate all these programs that are out there, because a simple search for beginner programs has led me to literally over 10 programs, but no one has ever stated a reason for choosing one program over another.
I am 20. How short is a short while?
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Thanks for all the helpful comments. Can anyone tell me what's the benefit of doing the Hypertrophy Specific Workout versus the Starting Strength one?
As a new lifter, a basic full body would be fine for you. I would look at something like AllPro (link here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843) or StrongLifts, at least at first.
How old are you? I ask as it may be relevant to the appropriate size of your surplus - however, assuming you are relatively young, and especially as you are a new lifter, a surplus of 500 calories is probably fine at first as much will go towards muscle gain (assuming you stick to a good program and get enough protein) - make the most of it while you can - but I would not look to be at that level for long - scale the surplus back after a short while.
Thanks for the link. How would I know the potential difference in results between the AllPro and StrongLifts programs though (so that I can know which one better suits my needs/goals)? Surely something must differentiate all these programs that are out there, because a simple search for beginner programs has led me to literally over 10 programs, but no one has ever stated a reason for choosing one program over another.
I am 20. How short is a short while?
To be honest, as a new lifter, most full body programs will yield similar results at first. You need very little stimulus to build muscle at first, and much of the time will be spent learning the basic lifts. I would pick a program that has the main compound barbell lifts (assuming you have access to barbells) - both the ones I mentioned do. The compound lifts act as the foundation that you can build on for more specific hypertrophy work as you progress.
Stronglifts focuses more on these than AllPro, but AllPro is more varied. It really depends on which one you think you will enjoy more. AllPro is more hypertrophy based and StrongLifts more strength focused - but both will be good for hypertrophy and strength for a new lifter. Total volume and frequency is sufficient for good muscle gains for both and they both have progressive loading built in (which is very important for hypertrophy and strength gains).
Don't get too caught up with selection - just pick one and do it. After about 3 months, reassess and see where you are and how much you are enjoying the routine. You can progress on these programs however for much much longer than that however.
I would not go more then a couple of months at the 500 calorie surplus - then scale it back. If you are worried about gaining too much fat, then just sit at about a 350 calorie surplus - that way it will be more likely that a larger percentage of gains is muscle v fat.
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Thanks for all the helpful comments. Can anyone tell me what's the benefit of doing the Hypertrophy Specific Workout versus the Starting Strength one?
As a new lifter, a basic full body would be fine for you. I would look at something like AllPro (link here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843) or StrongLifts, at least at first.
How old are you? I ask as it may be relevant to the appropriate size of your surplus - however, assuming you are relatively young, and especially as you are a new lifter, a surplus of 500 calories is probably fine at first as much will go towards muscle gain (assuming you stick to a good program and get enough protein) - make the most of it while you can - but I would not look to be at that level for long - scale the surplus back after a short while.
Thanks for the link. How would I know the potential difference in results between the AllPro and StrongLifts programs though (so that I can know which one better suits my needs/goals)? Surely something must differentiate all these programs that are out there, because a simple search for beginner programs has led me to literally over 10 programs, but no one has ever stated a reason for choosing one program over another.
I am 20. How short is a short while?
My 2 cents:
Allpro has more volume to lead to more hypertrophy (potentially) and hits more body areas. SL5x5 is more strength focused and while you still gain muscle on it, it is more focused on strength. But you will gain both on either program. SL is also very simple and straightforward with only 5 exercises laid out for you. I personally found that the free version of the SL app is great for tracking progress as well as tracking your rest period. You just have to learn to tune out the used car salesman prompts that come up every once in a while to upgrade bells and whistles on the app.
To me the SL program is progress that is largely preplanned and requires me to keep track of less stuff. That being said I think I may try the all pro at some point when I greatly slow making strength gains on 5x5... that or Wendler 5/3/1.0 -
Thanks for all the helpful comments. Can anyone tell me what's the benefit of doing the Hypertrophy Specific Workout versus the Starting Strength one?
As a new lifter, a basic full body would be fine for you. I would look at something like AllPro (link here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4195843) or StrongLifts, at least at first.
How old are you? I ask as it may be relevant to the appropriate size of your surplus - however, assuming you are relatively young, and especially as you are a new lifter, a surplus of 500 calories is probably fine at first as much will go towards muscle gain (assuming you stick to a good program and get enough protein) - make the most of it while you can - but I would not look to be at that level for long - scale the surplus back after a short while.
Thanks for the link. How would I know the potential difference in results between the AllPro and StrongLifts programs though (so that I can know which one better suits my needs/goals)? Surely something must differentiate all these programs that are out there, because a simple search for beginner programs has led me to literally over 10 programs, but no one has ever stated a reason for choosing one program over another.
I am 20. How short is a short while?
To be honest, as a new lifter, most full body programs will yield similar results at first. You need very little stimulus to build muscle at first, and much of the time will be spent learning the basic lifts. I would pick a program that has the main compound barbell lifts (assuming you have access to barbells) - both the ones I mentioned do. The compound lifts act as the foundation that you can build on for more specific hypertrophy work as you progress.
Stronglifts focuses more on these than AllPro, but AllPro is more varied. It really depends on which one you think you will enjoy more. AllPro is more hypertrophy based and StrongLifts more strength focused - but both will be good for hypertrophy and strength for a new lifter. Total volume and frequency is sufficient for good muscle gains for both and they both have progressive loading built in (which is very important for hypertrophy and strength gains).
Don't get too caught up with selection - just pick one and do it. After about 3 months, reassess and see where you are and how much you are enjoying the routine. You can progress on these programs however for much much longer than that however.
I would not go more then a couple of months at the 500 calorie surplus - then scale it back. If you are worried about gaining too much fat, then just sit at about a 350 calorie surplus - that way it will be more likely that a larger percentage of gains is muscle v fat.
Echoing this.
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Research , BMR, BMI, TDEE , Macro nutrient manipulation and ratios, Hypertrophy . Whatever your goal is, you must take the time to research your own questions because the answers coming from individuals all generally vary on personal perspectives.0
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