Weight Watchers transition

ftsolk

I am currently attending Weight Watchers meetings, and I have no intentions of stopping. I feel that the meetings and accountability does help me. I also feel that the Points System is a good way to learn how to eat if you don't have any baseline on how to eat healthy meals.

However, there are flaws. A banana is 100 calories whether WW acknowledges it or not. Weight Watchers says they allow for 5-7 servings of fruits and vegetables a day. Problem is, that can be 400 calories, or it can be 900 calories. Weight Watchers also doesn't take into account activity level which bothers me a little. After all, I work 5-6 days a week where I am walking for around 5-8 hours at each shift. Plus, I go out 3-4 days a week, and I'll usually spend 1-3+ hours walking during that time. Obviously, I burn more calories than someone who works a desk job and doesn't exercise (even if I don't do any actual "workouts" right now). I like that I can factor that into my plan on Myfitnesspal.

However, I do like some of the flexibility that Weight Watchers allows. I can eyeball portions of fruit and vegetables since it's 0 points. And even with things like a potato. a 140 gram potato is obviously higher in calories than a 135 gram potato, but it's the same points on WW, so I don't have to micromanage every gram of food I eat. I've had problems with counting calories in the past because I will weigh every bite I eat, and I eventually overwhelm myself. I just feel like calorie counting requires you to be more precise, and I have a hard time finding the balance between the two.

I really feel that counting calories is probably better for me overall, but I'm just not sure how to deal with my fear of needing to be completely accurate with every bite I eat.

Right now, I'm roughly double tracking, but I'm guessing on how much produce I'm eating rather than being super accurate. I actually can afford to eat more most days (though I do have one night a week where I give myself freedom to eat what I want without worrying about points or calories), so I figure being under a little bit each day is fine, but netting 140 calories is probably going too far in the wrong direction.

Any suggestions on making the transition?

HeySwoleSister

I would suggest double tracking for a while, just to make note of where you are seeing a divergence between the plans (I did this for a bit and was under on points but over on calories, because of the fruit/veggie issue you mention) Also play with the scale on portions of fruit and veggies and see how accurate your eyeballing is. If it's close, you might be ok continuing to do that, the margin of error on veggies is only a calorie or two in most cases, anyway.

Personally, I weigh and measure most food but not very low calorie (like, less than 10) condiments and veg like lettuce. Since I tend to get MFP's "you need to eat more" warning, I also don't worry about the one-bite items like 5 grams of chocolate peanut bark, etc. I figure I'm hitting my goal roughly and it likely evens out over the week to hit the sweet spot. I'm losing right about at the rate I set the calculator for, so I call it good.

rayneface

Are you wanting to do calorie counting because you aren't losing weight on WW?

If that is the case then I would say you should try to be more diligent with your measuring/weighing of foods and this will help push you in the right direction (it may be that you aren't properly tracking other foods too not just the fruit and veg).

If you think that you want to do MFP because it is more accurate with your food intake I hate to say it you are headed into measure/weighing land too. Otherwise you might stall out on weight loss because you are being inaccurate.

WalkingAlong

I feel ya. I would say if you're netting under 200 calories a day, whether you're eating 400 or 900 calories of produce isn't going to have a huge effect. Most of us, the days we eat 900 vs. 400, something else is squeezed out and it comes out in the wash anyway, I think. And if we're eating 900 regularly and not losing, we know our options. Adjust it all down or eat less fruit.

If micromanaging calories is a problem, I think points is healthier from that aspect, to be honest.

I would try to address the mindset that either has to be super accurate numerically to give good results.

ftsolk

Right now, I am terrified of eating my extra points because I don't know how many calories worth of free fruit/veggies are incorporated in my plan, so I need the cushion.

I just think that with the knowledge I do have of calories and macros, I may be beyond WW in that way. I don't eat fruit and vegetables to no end, but I don't exactly measure them either. I eat all my food on 8-9 inch plates (except salads which I will put on a larger plate). The other day, I did the Hellman's Parmesan Chicken for dinner using fat free greek yogurt instead of mayo (around 280 calories or 6 points), spiralized potatoes cooked in an airfryer and tossed in a teaspoon of olive oil (a medium to small potato based on WW points guidelines), and roasted brussels sprouts (tossed in another teaspoon of olive oil). About half of my plate was vegetables with the potatoes and chicken taking up a quarter of the plate each. I don't think those portions are too unreasonable for a dinner.

For lunch, my fruit and veggie portion can vary. The other day, I had a quarter of a frittata (made with chicken sausage, 1 medium sweet potato, onion, swiss chard, and eggs and egg whites) with about a cup of jicama and a cup of blackberries and strawberries (I have a lunchbox with 3 containers that I use- one is about 2.5 cups and the other two are 1 cup each). Then, another day, I put leftover chicken in the smaller cup, put jicama in the larger one, and added an apple into the second small cup. I do set a rule that I need to have either the larger container or both smaller container with fruit and vegetables (I can do all veggies, or half veggies and fruit, but not all fruit). That way, about half of my lunch is fruits and veggies.

Branstin

The best advice I can give you is to bring up your concerns at the next WW meeting. I left WW a while ago but when I used that program they had an online tool that converted the weight of fruits and veggies to points. For example, many people interpreted 1 piece of fruit to equal one serving which is not always true. One large banana could be 2 servings. If you are going to spend your money on the program then someone in the program should help you.

maxit

You are making things very complicated for yourself, I think, and being terrified is not a good way to live

About calories in fruits/veggies - remember that the "serving size" is defined for you in WW - a medium banana would be more like two servings, not one, as Branstin noted.

There is a saying in WW - "let your weight loss be your guide." The advice generally is to eat the maximum number of points you can and still maintain a .5 to 2 lb weekly weight loss. The range there is important - if you have more to lose, you can sustain the higher weight loss. As you move closer to your healthy weight, that will be harder to do and still maintain health. Look at data for a month, not just a week, to draw conclusions about your progress. As far as exercise goes, you can also track that in WW for "activity points." Whether or not you increase your food intake in response is up to you. Your data will guide you.

I spent 10 months on WW and lost weight steadily. When I started incorporating weight lifting I started double tracking to keep a closer eye on protein, fat, carbs and fiber. It is very easy to under eat both protein and fat on WW if you are exercising vigorously. After a few of months of this, I let WW go. What WW did for me, really, was to reset my idea of "portions."

If you are new to WW, read all the materials and get the guidance you are paying for~if you find that WW is not for you, it's OK to let it go

cebreisch

I guess I'm a "double tracker" too. I track my foods in MFP, then convert the numbers to points on WW. I like that on WW, I get more food. I always felt like the MFP numbers for me were a bit low.

When I joined WW about 30 years ago (OMG!!), people had to track the number of protein, fat, milk, carb and fruit/veggie servings a day. I actually lost 40 pounds doing that - then hit a plateau. When WW went to "fat/fiber" and then "points", that just seemed beyond my comprehension. I knew fiber was good for you, but didn't exactly know enough about nutrition to know the best ways to get it.

SO - until about 4 years ago, I just puttered feeling like there was no plan out there that was anything that I would be able to follow and not really knowing what to do. In April 2011, I went to a bariatric doctor to see about lap-band surgery. and got to see a nutritionist. That was by far one of the biggest things ever....they told me to log my food on this site, and it broke things down into fats, carbs, protein's and fiber....more like what I was wanting.

There's much more to the story, but here I am now, 77-ish pounds gone. There are things I like about Fitbit, WW, and MFP, and with all the data, it's helping me to go the right direction.

(FYI: A leader told me that only 2 of the fruit choices were "free". The rest needed to be counted regularly. So basically, they want people to have 6 servings of non-starchy veggies, and up to 2 servings of fruit. )

ccesq73

I had a discussion with my WW leader about the "free" fruits and vegetables on Saturday. She said that five servings (the amount recommended by WW's Good Health Guidelines) are factored into your daily point allowance so they're not really free. Also, you'll notice if you use the recipe builder that the points are counted. The leader told me that members should be counting the points for fruits in vegetables when they are combined with other foods which is why you get a higher points total when using the recipe builder. It sounds like you may need to adjust how you're counting your points.

ftsolk

I hear so many different things about when to count fruit, and when not to, so there's no set standard on that.

I decided to make my diary public. I get 30 WW points a day (I lost one point yesterday). I tend to eat 30-31 points. Saturday, I ate 35. The portions of produce are estimates since I don't weigh/measure them. My diary is currently set to losing 1 pound a week at a lightly active activity level, but I wear a fitbit to track my activity level as well. Right now, I'm just getting information.

I've only tracked from last Tuesday to today. I also don't track after lunch on Mondays (and this past Monday, I actually ate about 2/3 of the Starfruit from breakfast during lunch). Mondays, I give myself the night off PLUS it's my weigh-in day, so I'm trying to be consistent, but keep my meals on the lighter side.

WalkingAlong

So much good advice here!

ftsolk wrote: »

Right now, I am terrified of eating my extra points because I don't know how many calories worth of free fruit/veggies are incorporated in my plan, so I need the cushion.

I used to guesstimate I ate maybe 300 of produce per day on average, when on WW. You could easily log it all one day and see roughly where you're at?

I found just knowing the numbers helped me relax about it. My base WW points might be around 1000 calories, freebies another 300, so there's room there for your WPs and APs, if you prefer to eat more than to lose faster. I think most people not close to goal can eat their weekly points (WPs) and still lose fine.

ccesq73

Have you considered taking advantage of WW's new 24/7 online chat? It's included in your membership and you can get all to one on one advice you need directly from WW.

rebrud1

I did great on the old flex plan, but I never did very well on PP+ unless I was crushing activity points and then not eating them. I rarely ate all my WPs. I really think I never came to terms with the zero point fruit/veggie thing. I just quit today after years of paying WW for online access and tracking here for a couple of weeks. I tried double tracking, but I just couldn't manage the time it took to do both (in fairness, I was using spark, not MFP, which I like much better).

jkal1979

You have been getting information for a long time. You have been jumping from program to program for a very long time. I think it's time for you to make a decision to stick with either MFP, Spark People or WW. I think all of the jumping around that you do is not helping you at all. Pick one tracking site, pick one eating plan to follow and try to stick with it for a minimum of six months. Quit trying to mix and match and rotating programs.

Maybe double track for a month and in the mean time make a list of the pros and cons for each. Once that month is up, make a decision and choose one program. That's what I did when I was thinking of switching to MFP from WW. Once I made the choice to stick to MFP I cancelled my WW membership and deactivated my profile on their website. There is no need to over complicate things.

Alluminati

jkal1979 wrote: »

You have been getting information for a long time. You have been jumping from program to program for a very long time. I think it's time for you to make a decision to stick with either MFP, Spark People or WW. I think all of the jumping around that you do is not helping you at all. Pick one tracking site, pick one eating plan to follow and try to stick with it for a minimum of six months. Quit trying to mix and match and rotating programs.

Maybe double track for a month and in the mean time make a list of the pros and cons for each. Once that month is up, make a decision and choose one program. That's what I did when I was thinking of switching to MFP from WW. Once I made the choice to stick to MFP I cancelled my WW membership and deactivated my profile on their website. There is no need to over complicate things.

^^^This.
Also, welcome back honeylissabee.

ftsolk

I really did try to stick to WW for a while, but I think once my eyes were opened to the inner workings of things on MFP, it's been harder for me to do it anymore (granted, I did take time off for the holidays). I'm really only double tracking in a transitional phase, but I'm going to try tracking on MFP first for tomorrow and THEN go back over on WW to see how I did.

I'm not going to do Sparkpeople. While I love their ranges, their database is lacking, and the link with Fitbit is flawed. I'm also not a fan that they use a different BMR calculation. I worry that they give me too many calories to eat (though, MFP may give me too little, so who knows?)

ftsolk

Now, I'm still going to go to the meetings because I think that accountability DOES help me, and the advice I get there can translate well whether I count calories or points. My friend actually transitioned from WW to calorie counting, but he still goes to meetings, and in about 3 weeks, he should be a Lifetime member of WW. I definitely want to achieve that (and the free meetings), even if I'm only using some of the tools WW provides.

My friend is currently trying to transition into eating more to maintain (with some struggle), but in losing mode, he actually was at a point where he didn't need to track every single day. He was able to figure out his day without logging it. I would love that kind of freedom.

Unknown

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pander101

Welcome back honeylissabee,

I agree with a previous poster. I have done both WW and MFP and have taken concerns to my doctor about my weight loss troubles. I found that I didn't like the point system and the waste of money (in my opinion) that WW was and my doctor made a point of saying that the program was for people who were really sedentary. I also didn't see the point in anything being 0 points and vegetables being 'free'. Maybe it's a good starting point for some but it's too simplified.

I don't think you are giving either enough time to work though.

But if you're concerned, you are paying for a service and should take those concerns to them and see what they say as well.

Firefly0606

Tracking is tracking, weather you are counting point or counting calories. Both are flawed in some way as people have pointed out above....a free food on WW is never free on MFP - everything has calories. But on the other hand, 1 banana = x points doesn't take into account that bananas come in various sizes. I don't really understand WW's zero points thing - if you eat enough of anything the calories add up, even green stuff.

So if you have been prepared to write down / log into an app to record in WW, it is really no different to being prepared to write down / log into an app for MFP.

Using MFP is also similar to WW in that most of us eat the same sort of thing most of the time. I know what a 300 calorie breakfast looks like....really I only eat about 3-4 variations on breakfast most days of the week. "Eyeballing" will occur from your habits.

Is the fear you are feeling because WW has worked for you and you don't think anything else will?

You also want to make sure you are setting your calorie level at the right place. Programs like WW tend to work because they can set you to eat in a calorie range that is below your BMR. Anyone will lose weight while doing that. If you are after proper nutrition to fuel your body you need to set a calorie level that is a little bit less than your total daily energy expenditure (TDEE)...that number is often more than what you would be used to on WW.

ftsolk

I've been double tracking, but today (technically yesterday) I decided to try tracking on here first and WW second. It was SO much easier to track on here than on there. You can't copy a meal from one day to another on WW, and since I eat leftovers and/or repeat meals a lot, this gets old.

I think my fear is that, in the past, MFP has overhwelmed me. Measuring every bite I put in my mouth was too much.

I made the Hellman's Parmesan Chicken with greek yogurt instead of mayo. With calorie counting, I would weigh each chicken breast, weigh out the yogurt for each individual piece of chicken, etc because if I made a recipe and divided the total ingredients by the number of servings, one piece of chicken might be 250 calories, and another might be

I'm a very black and white/all or nothing thinker. Weight Watchers does allow me to break away from that more than calorie counting, so I'm trying to find an approach that works for me. For now, that means eyeballing fruit and vegetable portions. Maybe in the future, I'll be more accurate, but maybe I won't.

My goal is to be able to develop good enough eating habits so I don't need to track every day. I want to be able to lose and/or maintain my weight loss without needing to obsess over every morsel of food I eat.

WalkingAlong

Honestly, I think WW sounds like the better program for you, based on your goals and your b&w thinking tendencies. Good luck!

ccesq73

ftsolk wrote: »

I've been double tracking, but today (technically yesterday) I decided to try tracking on here first and WW second. It was SO much easier to track on here than on there. You can't copy a meal from one day to another on WW, and since I eat leftovers and/or repeat meals a lot, this gets old.

I think my fear is that, in the past, MFP has overhwelmed me. Measuring every bite I put in my mouth was too much.

I made the Hellman's Parmesan Chicken with greek yogurt instead of mayo. With calorie counting, I would weigh each chicken breast, weigh out the yogurt for each individual piece of chicken, etc because if I made a recipe and divided the total ingredients by the number of servings, one piece of chicken might be 250 calories, and another might be

I'm a very black and white/all or nothing thinker. Weight Watchers does allow me to break away from that more than calorie counting, so I'm trying to find an approach that works for me. For now, that means eyeballing fruit and vegetable portions. Maybe in the future, I'll be more accurate, but maybe I won't.

My goal is to be able to develop good enough eating habits so I don't need to track every day. I want to be able to lose and/or maintain my weight loss without needing to obsess over every morsel of food I eat.

While I'm not a huge fan of WW's tracker, you can certainly save foods, recipes and meals. Just type in whatever you named it and it will pop up without you having to enter the information again. You can also see These foods under "Items I Created" under "My Foods."

03julie

Ww takes in to consideration fat more than counting cals. Eg. A chocolate bar can be 200 cals but a quarter of daily allowance of food on ww. Im cpunting cals but also ww pts to make sure im not eating too much fat

ftsolk

I'm not really afraid of fat (which is another strike against WW).

And sure I can save foods, but I don't eat the EXACT same thing every week. For example, the past two weeks, I've been making breakfast sandwiches with applegate chicken sausage, egg, cinnamon raisin Ezekiel english muffins, and sharp cheddar cheese. Next week, however, I'm going with ham or turkey with pepperjack cheese on 7 grain English muffins. So, copying from one day to the next is actually easier.

I think one of the things I like about MFP is the transparency of it. I wear a Fitbit and while WW gives me activity points, I don't know how it works. I don't know how much activity I need to do to earn activity points. I don't know how active WW assumes I am. I don't know how much of my daily allowance includes free fruits and vegetables.

Here, I know exactly what's going on. I know how the Fitbit exercise calories work. Everything is out in the open, and I think that's better for me.

My mom took our scale with her when babysitting, so I won't know how I did this week until I weigh in Monday, but I haven't been tracking on Weight Watchers for a few days. I feel like I might be eating too much because I'm definitely eating more now than I was on WW, but on the other hand, I could have been eating too little before. I tend to eat 1,300-1,900 calories a day, but this week, I've been eating 1,600-1,800. Of course, a nice chunk of that is fruit/vegetables, and I have been allowing myself to have a treat most nights. Thursday, it was Annie's animal cookies and a banana (that I didn't eat with breakfast). Last night, I had Dole strawberry dippers. I've also added in a bottle of Synergy kombucha, although I'm also looking into making my own kombucha to save money.