Exceptions to CICO

SuggaD

How does CICO idea account for people with good metabolisms or do those who believe CICO is the end of the story not believe in people with fast metabolisms? Honest question.

bajoyba

Having a fast or slow metabolism doesn't really have anything to do with CICO (calories in/calories out). Sure, there are medical conditions that can affect how much fuel a person's body might need, but that doesn't mean CICO doesn't exist for them, it just means that their equation might be different from the average person's.

If I have an abnormally fast metabolism, then I might be able to consume more energy than someone else of my height, weight, gender, and activity level. But if I consume more energy than my body actually needs to maintain itself, I'll still gain weight. If I eat fewer calories than my body needs to maintain itself, I'll lose weight. CICO.

There are things that can change our CICO equations, but CICO still applies.

PeachyCarol

bajoyba wrote: »

Having a fast or slow metabolism doesn't really have anything to do with CICO (calories in/calories out). Sure, there are medical conditions that can affect how much fuel a person's body might need, but that doesn't mean CICO doesn't exist for them, it just means that their equation might be different from the average person's.

If I have an abnormally fast metabolism, then I might be able to consume more energy than someone else of my height, weight, gender, and activity level. But if I consume more energy than my body actually needs to maintain itself, I'll still gain weight. If I eat fewer calories than my body needs to maintain itself, I'll lose weight. CICO.

There are things that can change our CICO equations, but CICO still applies.

^This.

TheNoLeafClover

bajoyba wrote: »

Having a fast or slow metabolism doesn't really have anything to do with CICO (calories in/calories out). Sure, there are medical conditions that can affect how much fuel a person's body might need, but that doesn't mean CICO doesn't exist for them, it just means that their equation might be different from the average person's.

If I have an abnormally fast metabolism, then I might be able to consume more energy than someone else of my height, weight, gender, and activity level. But if I consume more energy than my body actually needs to maintain itself, I'll still gain weight. If I eat fewer calories than my body needs to maintain itself, I'll lose weight. CICO.

There are things that can change our CICO equations, but CICO still applies.

^ Yep. Well said.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

Yep. Similarly, if a person has metabolic syndrome or another medical condition CICO still applies to them; there are just more variables at work than might by accounted for in the usual equation.

MarziPanda95

There are no exceptions to CICO. Someone with a different metabolism/medical issue is still subject to CICO, it's just that the 'calories out' part of CICO will be a little different to someone of the same weight, height and gender. Like bajoyba pretty much summed up, if someone with a high metabolism were to eat more than their CO, calories out, they'd gain weight. It's not that people can be 'exceptions' to CICO, it's that their CO can be a little different.

SuggaD

How do you figure out equation (eg. using calculator always recommended on here) then if using the normal equation doesn't work?

ndj1979

bajoyba wrote: »

Having a fast or slow metabolism doesn't really have anything to do with CICO (calories in/calories out). Sure, there are medical conditions that can affect how much fuel a person's body might need, but that doesn't mean CICO doesn't exist for them, it just means that their equation might be different from the average person's.

If I have an abnormally fast metabolism, then I might be able to consume more energy than someone else of my height, weight, gender, and activity level. But if I consume more energy than my body actually needs to maintain itself, I'll still gain weight. If I eat fewer calories than my body needs to maintain itself, I'll lose weight. CICO.

There are things that can change our CICO equations, but CICO still applies.

this..

end thread/

now..

seriously...

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

SuggaD wrote: »

How do you figure out equation (eg. using calculator always recommended on here) then if using the normal equation doesn't work?

You would use a calculator to get started and then reevaluate after a month based on your results. If you lost too much you'd start eating more. If you didn't lose any you'd start eating less.

Unless you get to the point where you're eating the minimum number of calories that's recommended and you're not losing anything, at which point you'd see a doctor.

diannethegeek

SuggaD wrote: »

How do you figure out equation (eg. using calculator always recommended on here) then if using the normal equation doesn't work?

The calculators are always just a starting point. Trial and error by tracking your results and adjusting appropriately will get you closer to figuring out the equation, but you may never know how many calories you eat or burn exactly.

ndj1979

SuggaD wrote: »

How do you figure out equation (eg. using calculator always recommended on here) then if using the normal equation doesn't work?

I use this one
http://www.fat2fittools.com/tools/bmr/

honestly, it is just a calculator though and you are going to have to play around with the numbers.

The best method is to find a calculator, calculate your maintenance level and then eat to that number…if you do not gain or lose then you know what our maintenance level is…trial and error is truly the best way to figure it out…

I now know that my maintenance level is about 2500 to 2600 and I gain on 3000 to 3100 and cut on about 2000 to 2200…but that is something I have learned ..

Also, as you gain weight/lose weight, etc "the number" is going to change...

williams969

SuggaD wrote: »

How do you figure out equation (eg. using calculator always recommended on here) then if using the normal equation doesn't work?

Trial and error. For example, I burn about 200 calories more per day than my Fitbit says (which, incidentally, Fitbit agrees with what my Mifflin-Jeor estimate says, so two sources w/ similar estimate, both "wrong" for me).

Eight months of my personal data (careful measurement of food) vs. what I actually lost over the same time period = TDEE of 2,200 (Fitbit average and Scooby say 1,999 or thereabout).

Why is this? I have medically documented overactive, enlarged, and cystic thyroid (she runs "hot", but not enough to nuke it or remove it). Still, CICO applies to me, I just naturally have a higher "CO" part due to higher BMR. I lose (and obvs gain) the same as anyone else.

I just eat more to "solve" the calculator problem (i.e. I set to maintain to lose 1/2lb/wk, "gain" setting once I reach maintenance), simples.

SuggaD

Thanks all! Title of thread was off but my question was answered ... Trial and error. Guess I need to figure it out over next few months (though I hate weighing regularly) as calc is definitely off for me.

TimothyFish

The biggest reason some people have a "good metabolism" is that they have a higher percentage of muscle. For that reason, their calorie burn is high, not to mention that they are exercising to increase muscle mass. It is still CICO, but they have more calories coming out.

brianpperkins

Before claiming the calculators are off ... are you accurately logging your intake and burns?

williams969

SuggaD wrote: »

Thanks all! Title of thread was off but my question was answered ... Trial and error. Guess I need to figure it out over next few months (though I hate weighing regularly) as calc is definitely off for me.

It *is* just data (I had to tell myself that over and over at first, now I'm totally comfortable with it). And really, you can do this method of trial and error by only weighing once a month. As long as you have a running total of monthly calories (divide by 30 or however many days b/w weigh-ins for a daily average), and the total monthly weight change, you can figure it out.

SuggaD

brianpperkins wrote: »

Before claiming the calculators are off ... are you accurately logging your intake and burns?

I don't weigh my food but I estimate. Had a crazy good metabolism before I had my daughter (genetics - I was the skinny girk that ate thousands of calories and never gained weight). Slowed down after. It's not like before but assuming I'm underestimating food and overestimating exercise, I don't quite have calc figured out as unless I really go crazy and "binge," my weight keeps dropping. Good thing I go crazy frequently enough.

brianpperkins

SuggaD wrote: »

brianpperkins wrote: »

Before claiming the calculators are off ... are you accurately logging your intake and burns?

I don't weigh my food but I estimate. Had a crazy good metabolism before I had my daughter (genetics - I was the skinny girk that ate thousands of calories and never gained weight). Slowed down after. It's not like before but assuming I'm underestimating food and overestimating exercise, I don't quite have calc figured out as unless I really go crazy and "binge," my weight keeps dropping. Good thing I go crazy frequently enough.

If you only estimate, how can you be sure that the calculators are off? The more simple answer is flawed logging over the concept of a flawed CICO paradigm if one were to go the Occam's razor route.

bwogilvie

diannethegeek wrote: »

The calculators are always just a starting point. Trial and error by tracking your results and adjusting appropriately will get you closer to figuring out the equation, but you may never know how many calories you eat or burn exactly.

Quoted for truth, and bolded for emphasis! Like Dianne says, calories estimate based on the participants in a study. There are individual varations.

Too many people seem to think that online BMR and TDEE calculators are Delphic oracles with privileged insight into their bodies. They're not. They're tools based on studying people and finding the best fit for the relationship between BMR, age, weight, gender, and height. Individuals vary. I estimate that my TDEE is about 100 calories/day lower than what most calculators predict.

auddii

bajoyba wrote: »

Having a fast or slow metabolism doesn't really have anything to do with CICO (calories in/calories out). Sure, there are medical conditions that can affect how much fuel a person's body might need, but that doesn't mean CICO doesn't exist for them, it just means that their equation might be different from the average person's.

If I have an abnormally fast metabolism, then I might be able to consume more energy than someone else of my height, weight, gender, and activity level. But if I consume more energy than my body actually needs to maintain itself, I'll still gain weight. If I eat fewer calories than my body needs to maintain itself, I'll lose weight. CICO.

There are things that can change our CICO equations, but CICO still applies.

This.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »

Yep. Similarly, if a person has metabolic syndrome or another medical condition CICO still applies to them; there are just more variables at work than might by accounted for in the usual equation.

And this.