Bulking and cutting?

GothyFaery

My ultimate goal is to gain muscle (so I can eat more and avoid being skinny fat) but I still have a bit of body fat I need to get rid of as well so I thought I'd try bulking and cutting. I'm just not really sure how to go about it. How long should each phase last? How much more/less should I eat during each phase? Should my exercises change at all during either phase?

Currently my exercise includes Stronglifts 3x/week, body weight exercises 4-5x/week and mild cardio throughout the day calculated by my fitbit (usually get 10k+ steps and 60+ active minutes). In case you need my stats I'm 26 female 5'5" currently weighing around 145lbs but I would like to get down to the 135-140 range. If I had to guess I'd say my body fat was around 25-27%. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

ETA another question! As a woman, how much weight/muscle should I expect to put on during the bulking phase?

wolfsbayne

In for info...I'd like to know as well...

GothyFaery

I decided to have this moved from fitness and exercise over to the gaining weight section as my questions are more centered around the bulking part of the equation. Hopefully someone can give me some insight.

xcalygrl

How long should each phase last: however long you want them to. Some people do a 3 month bulk followed by a cut lasting how long they need it to. Some people have bulked for a solid year followed by a cut lasting how long they need it to.
ETA on this bullet: pick a timeframe that you are comfortable with and try not to deviate from that. Many times, people say they'll bulk for 6 months, but around month 3 it gets into your head. It's hard to actually keep up with the increased calories and weight gain, but you won't see the muscle gains unless you ride that out. Take progress pics as you go because you might see more weight gain from your point of view in the mirror than you will in side-by-side comparisons.

How much more/less calories: it depends. Clean bulk would be about 250 calories over your maintenance calories. Dirty bulk would be 500+ calories over your maintenance calories. DUring a cut: eat about 250 or so under your maintenance and make sure you eat enough protein (usually 1 gram per pound of lean body mass or 0.8 grams per pound of body weight).
ETA again: know that when you increase your calories, you could see a large jump up on the scale in the first week from glycogen and water weight. It is highly unlikely that the first large jump is actually fat and/or muscle, so of it could be, but not all of it.

Your exercises: should be ok, but if you find it hard to eat all the required calories needed in your surplus, you can cut out the cardio or reduce the intensity of the cardio so you don't have as many calories to eat back (if you're following the MFP method).

As a woman, it depends. Genetics, how long you've been lifting, and how dedicated you are to following the process will determine how much muscle you put on. I don't know the estimate numbers, so someone else will have to provide those.

auddii

I'd give this a read: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1

Nolan1009

How much you eat during each phase will depend on your maintenance calories. Are you currently maintaining your weight and do you know how much you're eating to maintain it?

Personally I think you should cut down to your goal weight first, with your lifting program you should maintain a good amount of your muscle and lose mostly fat. I think it's easier mentally to start a bulk from your goal weight or just below it, if you start 10lbs above goal weight and gain 10lbs on bulk then you have to cut 20lbs to get back to goal weight. The more you have to cut, the more you risk losing hard earned muscle mass. Also ratio of muscle gain may improve if you lower your bf% first.

Did that all make sense?

GothyFaery

Nolan1009 wrote: »

How much you eat during each phase will depend on your maintenance calories. Are you currently maintaining your weight and do you know how much you're eating to maintain it?

Personally I think you should cut down to your goal weight first, with your lifting program you should maintain a good amount of your muscle and lose mostly fat. I think it's easier mentally to start a bulk from your goal weight or just below it, if you start 10lbs above goal weight and gain 10lbs on bulk then you have to cut 20lbs to get back to goal weight. The more you have to cut, the more you risk losing hard earned muscle mass. Also ratio of muscle gain may improve if you lower your bf% first.

Did that all make sense?

I was previously maintaining around 1700-1900 net. I had maintained for about 7 months then stopped logging for the last 3 weeks of December (because I wanted to enjoy the holidays gilt free). I know I was eating more than 1700-1900 and my activity level went down but I didn't gain any weight.

Currently I'm trying to get down to 138 as a new year goal mostly just to see if I can (crazy, I know). I figured I would consider this my cutting stage and would get as low as I could in whatever timeframe a cutting phase normally lasts (whether I reach goal or not) and then start the bulking phase for a while.

Is that a bad plan? Should I abandon that mindset and hit goal first? Ultimately I'm not overly concerned with the number on the scale. I just want to like what I see in the mirror and like I said the new goal weight was more of a challenge to myself because I've never been that low. I actually figured after I hit 138 I would probably go back up a bit because I like this weight, just want to be more "toned".

GothyFaery

xcalygrl wrote: »

How long should each phase last: however long you want them to. Some people do a 3 month bulk followed by a cut lasting how long they need it to. Some people have bulked for a solid year followed by a cut lasting how long they need it to.
ETA on this bullet: pick a timeframe that you are comfortable with and try not to deviate from that. Many times, people say they'll bulk for 6 months, but around month 3 it gets into your head. It's hard to actually keep up with the increased calories and weight gain, but you won't see the muscle gains unless you ride that out. Take progress pics as you go because you might see more weight gain from your point of view in the mirror than you will in side-by-side comparisons.

Is a 3 month cycle considered normal or average? I was thinking more like 6 weeks but I didn't know if that would be enough time to get any kind of results. I understand it takes time, I'm just confused on how much time. lol

ndj1979

GothyFaery wrote: »

xcalygrl wrote: »

How long should each phase last: however long you want them to. Some people do a 3 month bulk followed by a cut lasting how long they need it to. Some people have bulked for a solid year followed by a cut lasting how long they need it to.
ETA on this bullet: pick a timeframe that you are comfortable with and try not to deviate from that. Many times, people say they'll bulk for 6 months, but around month 3 it gets into your head. It's hard to actually keep up with the increased calories and weight gain, but you won't see the muscle gains unless you ride that out. Take progress pics as you go because you might see more weight gain from your point of view in the mirror than you will in side-by-side comparisons.

Is a 3 month cycle considered normal or average? I was thinking more like 6 weeks but I didn't know if that would be enough time to get any kind of results. I understand it takes time, I'm just confused on how much time. lol

six weeks is not long enough ...if you are going to bulk you need to do it for at least four months IMO ..

here is the reason why ..the first month you are going to be figuring out how many calories you need to put on weight AND, believe it or not, gaining weight is hard work. Also, along the way you may get sick and not be able to eat at a high level for a week or something...so you need to commit to it for at least four months, because the first month is trial and error.

I started bulking in October on 2750 calories a day ..then I went to 2850, then to 2950 and now I am at about 3100...

Also, along the way I came down with the stomach virus and then a nasty sinus cold that took about two weeks of my bulk away..

to date, I have gone from 176 to 183.5 and I am just about four months in.

a six week bulk is pointless....

Nolan1009

Okay so to cut you're going to want to eat 250-300 ish less than maintenance, some people do 500 but I think that would put you too low. I would start around 1500 and monitor your progress.

If you are happy with your current weight then getting down to 140 might be sufficient to start your bulk, see how the cut goes- when you get to 140 you can decide if you want to keep going to 138 or stop there. When you're ending your cut, transition to maintenance for a few weeks before starting bulk. Up your calories back to maintenance levels over 2 weeks and then stay there a few weeks to see if that is still your maintenance (or TDEE) then from there you can add your surplus to bulk.

ndj1979

GothyFaery wrote: »

Nolan1009 wrote: »

How much you eat during each phase will depend on your maintenance calories. Are you currently maintaining your weight and do you know how much you're eating to maintain it?

Personally I think you should cut down to your goal weight first, with your lifting program you should maintain a good amount of your muscle and lose mostly fat. I think it's easier mentally to start a bulk from your goal weight or just below it, if you start 10lbs above goal weight and gain 10lbs on bulk then you have to cut 20lbs to get back to goal weight. The more you have to cut, the more you risk losing hard earned muscle mass. Also ratio of muscle gain may improve if you lower your bf% first.

Did that all make sense?

I was previously maintaining around 1700-1900 net. I had maintained for about 7 months then stopped logging for the last 3 weeks of December (because I wanted to enjoy the holidays gilt free). I know I was eating more than 1700-1900 and my activity level went down but I didn't gain any weight.

Currently I'm trying to get down to 138 as a new year goal mostly just to see if I can (crazy, I know). I figured I would consider this my cutting stage and would get as low as I could in whatever timeframe a cutting phase normally lasts (whether I reach goal or not) and then start the bulking phase for a while.

Is that a bad plan? Should I abandon that mindset and hit goal first? Ultimately I'm not overly concerned with the number on the scale. I just want to like what I see in the mirror and like I said the new goal weight was more of a challenge to myself because I've never been that low. I actually figured after I hit 138 I would probably go back up a bit because I like this weight, just want to be more "toned".

I would suggest getting down to 138 and then doing a bulk....

do you currently strength train? If yes, what does said program consist of?

Nolan1009

I just checked out your profile, congrats on your weight loss! So you pretty much know what to do to lose the last few pounds. I would make sure to accurately log during cut and maintenance to get starting point (TDEE) for bulk.

lyzxyzzy

auddii wrote: »

I'd give this a read: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1

yes.

I'm bulking based on a movement from 10% to 15% bodyfat range as mentioned here general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain

It takes a lot of time to bulk that much. For me, the gain should be around 16 pounds. About half way there in 12 weeks. 6 weeks seems too short. It all depends on what you want out of it.

skeptic77

You should have a desired weight in mind really to start off with. Use this calculator for cutting/bulking: http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/ and it will help you split your macros down into how many grams of fat / protein / carbs you should be eating per day.

Also you need willpower and dedication, once you reach your desired weight your body is used to eating that much and it's hard to cut down!

GothyFaery

Thanks everyone for the responses! So summing up what ever has said, I should continue losing until I get to at least 140 before I even think about bulking. Before I start the bulk I should find out what my true maintance is by adding 100 or so calories per week until my weight stablizes. Then I start adding calories until I am steadily gaining ~.5lb/week. I should anticipate to bulk for at least 3-4 months before I decided to cut again and when I do go back to cutting, I cut for however long it takes to get my desired results. Did I get that right?

xcalygrl

GothyFaery wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the responses! So summing up what ever has said, I should continue losing until I get to at least 140 before I even think about bulking. Before I start the bulk I should find out what my true maintance is by adding 100 or so calories per week until my weight stablizes. Then I start adding calories until I am steadily gaining ~.5lb/week. I should anticipate to bulk for at least 3-4 months before I decided to cut again and when I do go back to cutting, I cut for however long it takes to get my desired results. Did I get that right?

Yep, that's pretty much it.

ndj1979

GothyFaery wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the responses! So summing up what ever has said, I should continue losing until I get to at least 140 before I even think about bulking. Before I start the bulk I should find out what my true maintance is by adding 100 or so calories per week until my weight stablizes. Then I start adding calories until I am steadily gaining ~.5lb/week. I should anticipate to bulk for at least 3-4 months before I decided to cut again and when I do go back to cutting, I cut for however long it takes to get my desired results. Did I get that right?

yes..

my only addition would be to make sure that you are on structured lifting program with progressive overload built into it...unless of course, you already are doing that...:)

Nolan1009

GothyFaery wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the responses! So summing up what ever has said, I should continue losing until I get to at least 140 before I even think about bulking. Before I start the bulk I should find out what my true maintance is by adding 100 or so calories per week until my weight stablizes. Then I start adding calories until I am steadily gaining ~.5lb/week. I should anticipate to bulk for at least 3-4 months before I decided to cut again and when I do go back to cutting, I cut for however long it takes to get my desired results. Did I get that right?

Pretty much, except you will have decide on a surplus above maintenance that you want to start with. 250-350 is pretty standard for women. It will be hard to get an accurate idea of whether you are steadily gaining .5 lb per week in the beginning because of fluctuations due to increased glycogen/water storage. You should pick a surplus, stick with it for a month it so, monitor your weight (more frequent weighing is recommended to account for fluctuations) and then adjust your intake based on whether you're gaining at the appropriate rate.

lyzxyzzy

GothyFaery wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the responses! So summing up what ever has said, I should continue losing until I get to at least 140 before I even think about bulking. Before I start the bulk I should find out what my true maintance is by adding 100 or so calories per week until my weight stablizes. Then I start adding calories until I am steadily gaining ~.5lb/week. I should anticipate to bulk for at least 3-4 months before I decided to cut again and when I do go back to cutting, I cut for however long it takes to get my desired results. Did I get that right?

Sounds good. You need to figure out your macros for the diet while bulking as well. Diet will make up a large portion of what you are doing. There are numerous topics on the subject. The consensus appears to be .82g per pound of of body weight for protein and I'm not sure on the other two. It should be in the other articles somewhere.

Don't forget to have fun.