Addiction
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I think comparing garden variety cravings for junk food to an addiction is insulting both to people struggling with disordered eating and with actual addictions. Can you use food as an emotional crutch to avoid dealing with *kitten*? Yeah, absolutely. Is that the same as someone on heroin? God, no. Absolutely not.
Compulsive eating is a thing, keep in mind. It's an actual condition, but it's debilitating. It's life-destroying. People suffering from compulsive eating can knock out up to 15,000 calories a day during a binge. Compulsive overeaters often do lie, cheat and steal to support their habit, and they generally cannot stop without help. That's classic addiction territory right there. Struggling to pass up the cheeseburger when grabbing your kid a happy meal is not.
^This. People can have disordered behaviors surrounding food, but the food itself isn't to blame and is not the cause of the behaviors.
You can't live without food. You can live without substances that are truly addictive.
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In rare cases, such as compulsive over eaters who are hungry all the time or cannot stop despite not being hungry, I think it can be an addiction or like one. I don't think enjoying eating or finding certain specific foods tempting Is in the least, no, and I think that way of thinking of it misunderstands addiction and isn't helpful in losing weight.
I do think both addiction and eating issues can be helped by tools that take the pressure off will power alone, like building habit, mindfulness, and being conscious of and avoiding situations of temptation, as well as understanding when and why your will power may be naturally at a low point.0 -
poohpoohpeapod wrote: »I think people can get addicted to the biological good feelings that sugar and certain simple carbs provide. They affect the brain in some people much more than others. I think some people feel out of control and have difficulty eating these foods in moderation. Sugar has been proven (on pet scans) to light up the same areas of the brain as cocaine does. Call it what you want. Many will say IIFYM however, some of us cant do moderation, thats why we got big in the first place.
I used to think that too. It took going through giving what I thought were "addictive" foods up completely (sugar and starchy carbs) and some time thinking to realize that it was really just my behavior that I couldn't moderate, and that I was making choices. I learned to visualize myself in charge of my choices, and it works. They weren't in the control I was giving them. I'm in control of my dietary choices.
Moderation is possible, but it takes discipline and some work to get there. It's all a head game if you're used to believing that food is in control of you.
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I think comparing garden variety cravings for junk food to an addiction is insulting both to people struggling with disordered eating and with actual addictions. Can you use food as an emotional crutch to avoid dealing with *kitten*? Yeah, absolutely. Is that the same as someone on heroin? God, no. Absolutely not.
Compulsive eating is a thing, keep in mind. It's an actual condition, but it's debilitating. It's life-destroying. People suffering from compulsive eating can knock out up to 15,000 calories a day during a binge. Compulsive overeaters often do lie, cheat and steal to support their habit, and they generally cannot stop without help. That's classic addiction territory right there. Struggling to pass up the cheeseburger when grabbing your kid a happy meal is not.
Yep, my view exactly, but you put it better.0 -
CarrieCans wrote: »CarrieCans wrote: »CarrieCans wrote: »Mariam-Webster defines addiction as a strong or harmful need to have something or do something. Is there a strong need for food, either to cope with stress or to fill a reaction from the body? Eating is certainly habit-forming. No one is saying that it does not take discipline to overcome this habit/addiction. The same is true of any other addiction.
Alcoholics are vigilant, there is a fight everyday to stay sober. There are support structures like AA in place. During meetings people share there thoughts, struggles and cravings. After certain steps are achieved, a sponsor is chosen to help personally guide you through you journey.
In the same way, eating helps people cope with their problems. It is a comforting method of escaping from the real world and its tribulations. If done in excess, it can be very harmful and deadly. When you decide eating has damaged your life enough to make a change, you seek help. After finding that help, you need to be constantly vigilant over your eating, or you may fall prey to over-eating again.
It certainly fits the definition of addiction, and it has a striking number of similarities to other accredited addictions. The difference with food is that we must have it in order to live. An alcoholic can swear off alchol, a drug addict can stop using completely. Someone who is addicted to food still has to eat. Imagine a heavy scotch drinker trying to conquer alcoholism by being told cut back on their scotch intake, or switch to beer! Not going to work. Food can be a very dangerous and addictive stub stance. Failure to recognize that fact is even more dangerous.
No it is not the same and saying that it is trivializing actual addictions.
So then you believe a person can only be addicted to something if it is an illegal or controlled substance?
Nope. Where did I ever say that?
I didn't say you said it. I was asking because it appears that you believe a person who thinks that food addiction is real is trivializing actual addictions.
I may have read that wrong.
You are correct. I do not believe food is an actual addiction. How many people do you know that lost their jobs because they couldn't stop eating? How many have ended up in shelters from spending too much on food? How many started selling their body to pay for the food? How many had their children taken away from them because their "addiction" made CPS believe they are an unfit parent?
I have had problems with addiction. It has never lost me a job, never landed me in a shelter, i have never sold my body, and i have never "lost" a child over it. I have however had issues with working, had frequent moves and even lived in cars and other peoples couches, considered doing demeaning or immoral things and voluntarily gave custody of a child to a family member.
I guess i wasted a lot of time dealing with something that wasn't actually an addiction after all. I never knew it was a requirement to let yourself get that low before you try to do something about it.
The point stands, though. You were a functional addict, but not all addicts are. It would stand to reason that if food is an addiction, that there would be food addicts who would have those things happen. There aren't. Food isn't addictive. People just make bad choices about what to do with it. Food is neutral. We need food, and can't live without it. You never need a substance that's truly addictive.
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Only 6 posts in, and food=cocaine.
That must be a record for MFP.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Lots of people think they are addicted to food. Most of them are just looking for a reason to fail that isn't their fault.
I think this is a big part of it, and to the extent people are trying to say they can't help it or can't change it, I think they should review how they think about people who are addicts. Because is "sorry I ruined your party, I'm just an alcoholic, couldn't help getting drunk and (insert whatever)" generally accepted or seen as a valid excuse? I wouldn't think so. So nor is food addiction.
As for "food is harder, you can't stop eating," my question is do you really binge on everything? Or are there specific foods you overeat because you like them and others you would never overeat? The latter is me and I got plenty fat and that's not addiction. Nor is emotional eating, which I've done too. Compulsive overeating or binging disorder, where you are eating contrary to any pleasure and in an out of control way? Yeah, at least much closer.
Binging doesn't mean eating 3 cookies instead of one, though. Many binge, but not all overweight people do and the term is overused on MFP, IMO.0 -
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http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction
"The idea that a person can be addicted to food has recently gotten more support from science.
Experiments in animals and humans show that, for some people, the same reward and pleasure centers of the brain that are triggered by addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin are also activated by food, especially highly palatable foods. Highly palatable foods are foods rich in:
Sugar
Fat
Salt
Like addictive drugs, highly palatable foods trigger feel-good brain chemicals such as dopamine. Once people experience pleasure associated with increased dopamine transmission in the brain's reward pathway from eating certain foods, they quickly feel the need to eat again.
The reward signals from highly palatable foods may override other signals of fullness and satisfaction. As a result, people keep eating, even when they're not hungry.
People who show signs of food addiction may also develop a tolerance to food. They eat more and more, only to find that food satisfies them less and less.
Scientists believe that food addiction may play an important role in obesity. But normal-weight people may also struggle with food addiction. Their bodies may simply be genetically programmed to better handle the extra calories they take in. Or they may increase their physical activity to compensate for overeating.
People who are addicted to food will continue to eat despite negative consequences, such as weight gain or damaged relationships. And like people who are addicted to drugs or gambling, people who are addicted to food will have trouble stopping their behavior, even if they want to or have tried many times to cut back."-1 -
Yes, I believe in Food Addiction. I am a recovering addict (alcohol and pot), and I do not get offended when people say one can be addicted to food. In fact, when I was in rehab I was specifically told that a person can get addicted to food and that a recovering alcoholic/drug addict needs to be vigilant that they do not replace one addiction (alcohol) with another (food, gambling, sex, etc).
I roll my eyes when I read:
People aren't addicted to food, it's just an excuse
People can't be addicted to food because they have never done X, Y, or Z (FYI, I never sold my body or lost my mortgage for alcohol, but I am an alcoholic just the same)
You can't be addicted to anything your body needs to live
But as another poster said, if you have never binged to the point where you are in a food coma, then you won't understand.
Also, I am not sure if Binge Eating Disorder and Food Addiction are two separate things. I am still looking into that.
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We need food to live and survive. We don't need cocaine, heroin, nicotine, alcohol, gambling, etc. to survive.
There's a big difference from what I see. I believe there are people who prefer pleasure from food and possibly could be the only enjoyment that they have in life (which would explain why very many obese people are loners).
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We need food to live and survive. We don't need cocaine, heroin, nicotine, alcohol, gambling, etc. to survive.
There's a big difference from what I see. I believe there are people who prefer pleasure from food and possibly could be the only enjoyment that they have in life (which would explain why very many obese people are loners).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You didn't mention sex....
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herrspoons wrote: »Lots of people think they are addicted to food. Most of them are just looking for a reason to fail that isn't their fault.
100% this. If you like food thats fine, we all do (except the ED brigade). If you like eating it in excess then thats up to you but it comes with a cost and that means putting on weight if you eat more than your body needs.
It boils down to taking responsibility for what you put in you eat. If you dont have that level of self control then go and see a Dr or better still learn about weight loss and that knowledge might help you understand what it takes to lose weight. It is in your control. If you dont have self confidence then join a group and seek some support.0 -
Of course food can be additive in exactly the way drugs can be. Via webmd:
The idea that a person can be addicted to food has recently gotten more support from science.
Experiments in animals and humans show that, for some people, the same reward and pleasure centers of the brain that are triggered by addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin are also activated by food, especially highly palatable foods. Highly palatable foods are foods rich in:
Sugar
Fat
Salt
Like addictive drugs, highly palatable foods trigger feel-good brain chemicals such as dopamine. Once people experience pleasure associated with increased dopamine transmission in the brain's reward pathway from eating certain foods, they quickly feel the need to eat again."
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction
Honestly, the people saying food addiction is just an excuse sound exactly like the people who say the same of drug, alcohol, and gambling addiction. If you feel you are addicted to certain types of foods there is a plethora of information out there that may be of help, and obviously discuss your concerns with your doctor.-1 -
According to addiction experts, yes food can be an addiction. medicalnewstoday.com/info/addiction/-1
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. This is funny to me because of course the addicted brain does believe it needs for example herion to survive. Indeed, a herion addicts brain sends the signal that to the body that it needs herion in the same way it needs water to survive.We need food to live and survive. We don't need cocaine, heroin, nicotine, alcohol, gambling, etc. to survive.
There's a big difference from what I see. I believe there are people who prefer pleasure from food and possibly could be the only enjoyment that they have in life (which would explain why very many obese people are loners).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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herrspoons wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Lots of people think they are addicted to food. Most of them are just looking for a reason to fail that isn't their fault.
I think this is a big part of it, and to the extent people are trying to say they can't help it or can't change it, I think they should review how they think about people who are addicts. Because is "sorry I ruined your party, I'm just an alcoholic, couldn't help getting drunk and (insert whatever)" generally accepted or seen as a valid excuse? I wouldn't think so. So nor is food addiction.
As for "food is harder, you can't stop eating," my question is do you really binge on everything? Or are there specific foods you overeat because you like them and others you would never overeat? The latter is me and I got plenty fat and that's not addiction. Nor is emotional eating, which I've done too. Compulsive overeating or binging disorder, where you are eating contrary to any pleasure and in an out of control way? Yeah, at least much closer.
Binging doesn't mean eating 3 cookies instead of one, though. Many binge, but not all overweight people do and the term is overused on MFP, IMO.
To be clear, there most definitely are people with behavioural eating disorders. They're just not nearly as prevalent as this site's membership would suggest, even allowing for the inherent selection bias sites like this will have.
I think this pretty much nails it. Whether you associate behavioural eating disorders with addiction or not.0 -
GiveMeCoffee wrote: »poohpoohpeapod wrote: »I think people can get addicted to the biological good feelings that sugar and certain simple carbs provide. They affect the brain in some people much more than others. I think some people feel out of control and have difficulty eating these foods in moderation. Sugar has been proven (on pet scans) to light up the same areas of the brain as cocaine does. Call it what you want. Many will say IIFYM however, some of us cant do moderation, thats why we got big in the first place.
The bolded part, everyone can do moderation if you work on it and learn it, we didn't get big because we're unable to moderate our intake, it's cause we never worked on learning how. It's not something you just figure out, it takes thought and effort.
As for food being an addiction, for most no, for those dealing with eating disorders maybe.
But the way the word addiction is thrown around is insulting to those that deal with true addictions. When you are willing to sell your body, steal from your family to get your daily burger fix ... than yea call it an addiction. If not, no you just need to work on learning how to moderate and work on your willpower muscle.
Jen, your right on the money with this. When I see someone selling their body to get a burger, and robbing a bank in order to get McDonald's, then I'll believe they have a food addiction. I also believe that the word is thrown around way too much here . If these people ever felt what it's like to withdraw from opiates, then they wouldnt be so quick to throw around the word addiction here.
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http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-food-addiction
"The idea that a person can be addicted to food has recently gotten more support from science.
Experiments in animals and humans show that, for some people, the same reward and pleasure centers of the brain that are triggered by addictive drugs like cocaine and heroin are also activated by food, especially highly palatable foods. Highly palatable foods are foods rich in:
Sugar
Fat
Salt
Like addictive drugs, highly palatable foods trigger feel-good brain chemicals such as dopamine. Once people experience pleasure associated with increased dopamine transmission in the brain's reward pathway from eating certain foods, they quickly feel the need to eat again.
The reward signals from highly palatable foods may override other signals of fullness and satisfaction. As a result, people keep eating, even when they're not hungry.
People who show signs of food addiction may also develop a tolerance to food. They eat more and more, only to find that food satisfies them less and less.
Scientists believe that food addiction may play an important role in obesity. But normal-weight people may also struggle with food addiction. Their bodies may simply be genetically programmed to better handle the extra calories they take in. Or they may increase their physical activity to compensate for overeating.
People who are addicted to food will continue to eat despite negative consequences, such as weight gain or damaged relationships. And like people who are addicted to drugs or gambling, people who are addicted to food will have trouble stopping their behavior, even if they want to or have tried many times to cut back."
Sorry, bad article. Webmd articles are published by editors, not by doctors and are not reliable sources. The argument that foods trigger a release of dopamine is faulty. Firstly, lots of things release dopamine, including pain. Secondly, Dopamine being a pleasure response is an overly simplistic explanation of the body's dopamine response. Here's a simple article about it.
theguardian.com/science/2013/feb/03/dopamine-the-unsexy-truth
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Sex lights up those areas too. So does eating fat, eating protein, exercising, competitive sports, etc. Cocaine co-opts the normal reward pathways in the brain. We don't have an "illicit drugs reward" pathway that foods take over. You don't even need to read the science, just try applying a little common sense.poohpoohpeapod wrote: »I think people can get addicted to the biological good feelings that sugar and certain simple carbs provide. They affect the brain in some people much more than others. I think some people feel out of control and have difficulty eating these foods in moderation. Sugar has been proven (on pet scans) to light up the same areas of the brain as cocaine does. Call it what you want. Many will say IIFYM however, some of us cant do moderation, thats why we got big in the first place.
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princessmommy122 wrote: »
. This is funny to me because of course the addicted brain does believe it needs for example herion to survive. Indeed, a herion addicts brain sends the signal that to the body that it needs herion in the same way it needs water to survive.We need food to live and survive. We don't need cocaine, heroin, nicotine, alcohol, gambling, etc. to survive.
There's a big difference from what I see. I believe there are people who prefer pleasure from food and possibly could be the only enjoyment that they have in life (which would explain why very many obese people are loners).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
What the addict believes shouldn't be confused with reality. The addict doesn't need that heroin to live.
People need food to live.
What was your point?
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CarrieCans wrote: »CarrieCans wrote: »CarrieCans wrote: »Mariam-Webster defines addiction as a strong or harmful need to have something or do something. Is there a strong need for food, either to cope with stress or to fill a reaction from the body? Eating is certainly habit-forming. No one is saying that it does not take discipline to overcome this habit/addiction. The same is true of any other addiction.
Alcoholics are vigilant, there is a fight everyday to stay sober. There are support structures like AA in place. During meetings people share there thoughts, struggles and cravings. After certain steps are achieved, a sponsor is chosen to help personally guide you through you journey.
In the same way, eating helps people cope with their problems. It is a comforting method of escaping from the real world and its tribulations. If done in excess, it can be very harmful and deadly. When you decide eating has damaged your life enough to make a change, you seek help. After finding that help, you need to be constantly vigilant over your eating, or you may fall prey to over-eating again.
It certainly fits the definition of addiction, and it has a striking number of similarities to other accredited addictions. The difference with food is that we must have it in order to live. An alcoholic can swear off alchol, a drug addict can stop using completely. Someone who is addicted to food still has to eat. Imagine a heavy scotch drinker trying to conquer alcoholism by being told cut back on their scotch intake, or switch to beer! Not going to work. Food can be a very dangerous and addictive stub stance. Failure to recognize that fact is even more dangerous.
No it is not the same and saying that it is trivializing actual addictions.
So then you believe a person can only be addicted to something if it is an illegal or controlled substance?
Nope. Where did I ever say that?
I didn't say you said it. I was asking because it appears that you believe a person who thinks that food addiction is real is trivializing actual addictions.
I may have read that wrong.
You are correct. I do not believe food is an actual addiction. How many people do you know that lost their jobs because they couldn't stop eating? How many have ended up in shelters from spending too much on food? How many started selling their body to pay for the food? How many had their children taken away from them because their "addiction" made CPS believe they are an unfit parent?
I have had problems with addiction. It has never lost me a job, never landed me in a shelter, i have never sold my body, and i have never "lost" a child over it. I have however had issues with working, had frequent moves and even lived in cars and other peoples couches, considered doing demeaning or immoral things and voluntarily gave custody of a child to a family member.
I guess i wasted a lot of time dealing with something that wasn't actually an addiction after all. I never knew it was a requirement to let yourself get that low before you try to do something about it.
You lived in a car vs lived in a shelter. Voluntarily gave up a child vs having one taken by CPS. At best, you're arguing semantics here.0 -
No …
lack of self control around food is not addiction …
I came across an article the other day talking about a review of literature on sugar addiction and they stated that a lot of people "confuse" food, sugar, etc addiction when in fact it is masking another problem or is just a lack of self control…
Not saying that OP is doing this, but I see al to of this lately ..with help I am addicted to sugar, ice cream, chocolate, etc, etc. And IMO people are starting to use "addiction" as a crutch as to why they can't lose weight or eat this or that food, which I think is a smack in the face to people struggling with real addiction.
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cincysweetheart wrote: »Personally, I think it's an excuse. Rather than dealing with the stresses of life, one chooses to eat. Then claims that they can't deal with life without food. They eat because it tastes good and they like the feeling. But they don't want to take responsibility for it and have the discipline to say no… so they have created "food addiction" as a way of excusing themselves.
edited to add: This is just my opinion. But it comes from someone who started off at 381 pounds… with no injuries or medical problems, therefore most of the civilized world would think I had a food addiction.
it then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy ...0 -
No …
lack of self control around food is not addiction …
I came across an article the other day talking about a review of literature on sugar addiction and they stated that a lot of people "confuse" food, sugar, etc addiction when in fact it is masking another problem or is just a lack of self control…
Not saying that OP is doing this, but I see al to of this lately ..with help I am addicted to sugar, ice cream, chocolate, etc, etc. And IMO people are starting to use "addiction" as a crutch as to why they can't lose weight or eat this or that food, which I think is a smack in the face to people struggling with real addiction.
It really, really is. The food is to blame, not the person.
To all the people who are saying that people who have never binged until they've been in a food coma can't understand?
ORLY? BTDT, have the t-shirt.
I'm owning my behavior. It was my behavior, it was never about the food.
Food is neutral and necessary to survive.
I used to give food power over me. I no longer do that. It's really that simple. It was a long, long road getting here, though.
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To answer the question, yes, it is most certainly. Every single thing that causes 'enjoyment' to an individual, can become an addiction.
Food, drugs, gaming, gym, adrenaline rushes, etc.. they can all be an addiction, it just depends on the person and their enjoyment.-1 -
YES, seen it firsthand.-1
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Pillowcrunch wrote: »Does anyone think that food is an addiction? I love food, way too much. I feel like an addict. Opinions welcomed.
Nope. Sorry but I do not. I have never heard of someone taking out second mortgages on their home or selling their body to support their food "addiction".
But they DO sacrifice their bodies and health - something MUCH more important than what you've listed.
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My personal opinion is that food addiction can be a real thing. However, so many people hop on that wagon as an excuse for being overweight that it's become trivalized. One point that people keep bringing up is that it's not an addiction unless you start losing everything else in your life because of it. But a lot of alcoholics work actual jobs and have actual families. Those jobs and families will suffer for it, but many don't have to be kicked out on the street before their addiction is recognized, so why would food addiction be different? Drug addiction tends to go that route probably because it's more expensive, so that's the standard most people think of when they think of addiction.
And it's not just about moderation, as in if you have self control you won't get addicted to something. That's true, but the people who DO get addicted don't HAVE that self control. Any addiction takes that self control to recover from it, but since those people either don't have the capacity for it or never learned it, they need help to recover from it.
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TyronnePanaino wrote: »To answer the question, yes, it is most certainly. Every single thing that causes 'enjoyment' to an individual, can become an addiction.
Food, drugs, gaming, gym, adrenaline rushes, etc.. they can all be an addiction, it just depends on the person and their enjoyment.
that is a pretty broad definition ..
so if driving my car gives me pleasure, I can be addicted to driving, really?
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