Shoulder Press - advice
boredfatman
Posts: 100 Member
well to get straight to the point...I find this particular exercise nearly impossible!
I use a machine at the gym rather than free weights. So I have a program of 4 sets, which are as follows:
1st set 10 reps at 40kg
2nd set 15 reps at 25kg
3rd set 10 reps at 40kg
4th set 15 reps at 25kg
I get through the first two sets with a good degree of burn. Then I star the 3rd set which reverts back to 40kg and I manage about 5 reps before it kills me.
Am I getting something wrong here? It is THE most difficult exercise to do.
Further info - I use all of the different weight machines with similar patterns during the same workout which also includes 40 mins of cardio work too.
I do this Monday to Friday with sat and sun for resting.
Any advice would be gratefully recieved!
Thanks again
BFM
I use a machine at the gym rather than free weights. So I have a program of 4 sets, which are as follows:
1st set 10 reps at 40kg
2nd set 15 reps at 25kg
3rd set 10 reps at 40kg
4th set 15 reps at 25kg
I get through the first two sets with a good degree of burn. Then I star the 3rd set which reverts back to 40kg and I manage about 5 reps before it kills me.
Am I getting something wrong here? It is THE most difficult exercise to do.
Further info - I use all of the different weight machines with similar patterns during the same workout which also includes 40 mins of cardio work too.
I do this Monday to Friday with sat and sun for resting.
Any advice would be gratefully recieved!
Thanks again
BFM
0
Replies
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Is there a particular reason you're doing this on a machine, and not with a db or a barbell?
Shoulder press is a b. Sounds though, like you're getting a little tuckered out, and what I would do is rest long enough to get my next rep, and push to the next and the next, and the next, etc. until my set is done.0 -
Is there a particular reason you're doing this on a machine, and not with a db or a barbell?
Shoulder press is a b. Sounds though, like you're getting a little tuckered out, and what I would do is rest long enough to get my next rep, and push to the next and the next, and the next, etc. until my set is done.
I use the machine as I have no idea re technique lifting free weights and I don't want an injury. Plus I'm quite self conscious and therefore don't like the idea of using the free weight section. Perhaps a bit stupid but that's me I'm afraid...0 -
Is there a particular reason you're doing this on a machine, and not with a db or a barbell?
Shoulder press is a b. Sounds though, like you're getting a little tuckered out, and what I would do is rest long enough to get my next rep, and push to the next and the next, and the next, etc. until my set is done.
I will echo this. Shoulder press seems to be the compound lift that a lot of people stall out on, or at least have trouble with. What is your goal though? You are doing quite a few reps (often for strength you see more like 5 reps per set rather than 10-15.) If you stick with the higher reps, I think that dmata's advice is good though.
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Frankly I have no idea what to aim for. The gym I attend set up a program for me which I try to follow. However, it wasn't the most thorough process so it probably isn't that tailored to me.
My goal is to get some muscle definition whilst losing weight. I don't intend to be a bodybuilder but would like to be stronger, fitter and have a better physique.0 -
Well, if you'd like to be stronger, I'm going to parrot something you see a lot.
Get on a strength program.
Learn to use free weights.
Get over being self conscious.
I was a little self conscious while doing some hip thrusts in my new gym this weekend. So, I closed my eyes while doing it, since my eyes were closed, no one could see me. It was great.0 -
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Also, I think that shoulder press is one of the easier free weight exercises to learn by watching videos online. Go to Youtube or bodybuilding.com and look them up. You can do it either with a barbell or dumbbells. I prefer dumbbells because I am less apt to favor my dominant arm that way. You can practice at home with soup cans or something, while looking in a mirror so that when you walk into the free weight section you feel a bit more like you know what you are doing.
Word of caution, though--if you do use free weights, you will want to go down in weight compared to what you are doing on the machine. I can't give you a percentage or kg decrease but you won't be able to lift as much with free weights as you will with the shoulder press machine.0 -
OHP is easy to burn out on -- lots of not-so-big muscles involved. Might want increase the rest between sets, or since you're doing this on a machine, do circuits so you have a large number of minutes between sets. BTW, daily M-F on the same lift doesn't really give you any time for recovery -- at the very least I'd only do the OHP every other day, although every third or fourth day would probably be more optimal. Also, if you're going for hypertrophy instead of endurance, you'd be better off doing more weight and less reps.0
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self conscious while doing some hip thrusts in my new gym this weekend. So, I closed my eyes while doing it, since my eyes were closed, no one could see me. It was great.
brilliant
I'd focus on building strength for awhile, ditch the machines and use Barbells and dumbbells. Does whom ever set you up with your routine have you doing drop sets on every workout? Would you mind posting a typical days routine so I can get a better idea of what's going on.
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It depends on movements, intensity, fitness level, etc.boredfatman wrote: »
Are you doing shoulder presses every day during the week, and resting from that movement on weekends only? I would do something different.
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So in response to a couple of questions, (thanks for all the replies!), I have a set routine on each machine similar to this:
10 reps 40kg
15 reps 25kg
10 reps 40kg
15 reps 25kg
So in total four sets per machine, Monday to Friday.
After googling the meaning of hypertrophy I think this is probably what I'm after to begin with, more than endurance.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out...0 -
That doesn't make much sense to be honest.
There's no need to alternate between 40 and 25 on each set. It's one thing if you can't complete your set at a higher weight (40) so you are forced to drop down to a lower one (25) and continue there. But what you're doing.. purposely going up (40), down (25), then up to 40 and down to 25 again.. makes little sense and seems very inefficient.
It would be like if you saw me loading 225lbs on the bench for a set, then 135lbs for the next, then 225 again, then 135 again. You'd look at me like I'm silly and ask me why don't I just stick to one weight instead of constantly alternating up and down every set.
I think you'd be better off sticking to a constant weight for your working sets. The sweet spot for you to fully complete your 4 sets in a hypertrophy manner (meaning minimal rest, high reps) is probably somewhere inbetween 25kg and 40kg.
I'd also recommend you NOT work your shoulders out 5x a week. Or any body part for that matter. You need rest. 2-3x a week at most should be fine, especially considering you are a beginner.
Also you really should try to move on to free weights for your shoulder presses. They are not very difficult. You are worried about getting injured, but it shouldn't be an issue as long as you listen to your body. My rule of thumb for any exercise is.. listen to my body. If it feels wrong (any pain or discomfort), my form is wrong. Follow that rule and your chances of crippling or injuring yourself are greatly reduced.
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boredfatman wrote: »After googling the meaning of hypertrophy I think this is probably what I'm after to begin with, more than endurance.
Thanks for taking the time to help me out...
Full stop. What is/are your goal(s)? Most likely, that routine you came up with won't get you there.
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There are form videos on exrx.net and bodybuilding.com, plus a bajillion on youtube. Watch them until you have it down.0
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That doesn't make much sense to be honest.
There's no need to alternate between 40 and 25 on each set. It's one thing if you can't complete your set at a higher weight (40) so you are forced to drop down to a lower one (25) and continue there. But what you're doing.. purposely going up (40), down (25), then up to 40 and down to 25 again.. makes little sense and seems very inefficient.
It would be like if you saw me loading 225lbs on the bench for a set, then 135lbs for the next, then 225 again, then 135 again. You'd look at me like I'm silly and ask me why don't I just stick to one weight instead of constantly alternating up and down every set.
I think you'd be better off sticking to a constant weight for your working sets. The sweet spot for you to fully complete your 4 sets is probably somewhere inbetween 25kg and 40kg.
I'd also recommend you NOT work your shoulders out 5x a week. Or any body part for that matter. You need rest. 2-3x a week at most should be fine, especially considering you are a beginner.
Also you really should try to move on to free weights for your shoulder presses. They are not very difficult. You are worried about getting injured, but it shouldn't be an issue as long as you listen to your body. My rule of thumb for any exercise is.. listen to my body. If it feels wrong (any pain or discomfort), my form is wrong. Follow that rule and your chances of crippling or injuring yourself are greatly reduced.
I totally agree... Stick with higher weight... 2x3 nonconsecutive times a week... Try 3 sets for now. Rest in between. If you can't finish the sets, stick with that weight until you can. When you can finish it, bump the weight up a little...
Good luck.
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It would be better to increase your weights through your sets and limit the number of sets since the shoulders are are a relatively small muscle group to perform work sets on. If you look up a typical barbell set like Stronglifts, you do 2 sets of 5 with and empty 45lb bar as warm up sets then the 5 sets of 5 with 90lbs. If anything you would want to work your way up to your "work" something like 25x5, 30x3, 35x3, then 40x50
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If you hurt your shoulders, you're out of the running for a LONG time. So using a machine for higher weights is actually a wise thing to do. To at least get the power to perform the exercise correctly.
But are you doing only shoulder presses or are you doing the right thing? That is doing compound exercises like benchpresses, lat pulling which targets the delts indirectly and THEN do shoulder presses?
If not, please do so.
And do some shoulder presses on the machine with higher weights to finish it off with low weight free weight presses. (think 2-3 sets of 10 with 40kg, finishing off with 2-3 sets of 10 with 10kg)
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Yes:If you hurt your shoulders, you're out of the running for a LONG time.
No:So using a machine for higher weights is actually a wise thing to do. To at least get the power to perform the exercise correctly.
But are you doing only shoulder presses or are you doing the right thing? That is doing compound exercises like benchpresses, lat pulling which targets the delts indirectly and THEN do shoulder presses?
If not, please do so.
And do some shoulder presses on the machine with higher weights to finish it off with low weight free weight presses. (think 2-3 sets of 10 with 40kg, finishing off with 2-3 sets of 10 with 10kg)0 -
If you hurt your shoulders, you're out of the running for a LONG time. So using a machine for higher weights is actually a wise thing to do. To at least get the power to perform the exercise correctly.
But are you doing only shoulder presses or are you doing the right thing? That is doing compound exercises like benchpresses, lat pulling which targets the delts indirectly and THEN do shoulder presses?
If not, please do so.
And do some shoulder presses on the machine with higher weights to finish it off with low weight free weight presses. (think 2-3 sets of 10 with 40kg, finishing off with 2-3 sets of 10 with 10kg)
Free weights for lighter weight is better than machine for heavy weight to prevent injury. Form over weight. Leave your ego at the door.0 -
uconnwinsnc1 wrote: »If you hurt your shoulders, you're out of the running for a LONG time. So using a machine for higher weights is actually a wise thing to do. To at least get the power to perform the exercise correctly.
But are you doing only shoulder presses or are you doing the right thing? That is doing compound exercises like benchpresses, lat pulling which targets the delts indirectly and THEN do shoulder presses?
If not, please do so.
And do some shoulder presses on the machine with higher weights to finish it off with low weight free weight presses. (think 2-3 sets of 10 with 40kg, finishing off with 2-3 sets of 10 with 10kg)
Free weights for lighter weight is better than machine for heavy weight to prevent injury. Form over weight. Leave your ego at the door.
Yes.0 -
boredfatman wrote: »well to get straight to the point...I find this particular exercise nearly impossible!
I use a machine at the gym rather than free weights. So I have a program of 4 sets, which are as follows:
1st set 10 reps at 40kg
2nd set 15 reps at 25kg
3rd set 10 reps at 40kg
4th set 15 reps at 25kg
I get through the first two sets with a good degree of burn. Then I star the 3rd set which reverts back to 40kg and I manage about 5 reps before it kills me.
Am I getting something wrong here? It is THE most difficult exercise to do.
Further info - I use all of the different weight machines with similar patterns during the same workout which also includes 40 mins of cardio work too.
I do this Monday to Friday with sat and sun for resting.
Any advice would be gratefully recieved!
Thanks again
BFM
I think the bolded is part of the problem if I'm interpreting this correctly. You really shouldn't work the same muscle/groups of muscles on consecutive days...you're not giving yourself any recovery between lifting sessions and that recovery is where you make your strength gains.0 -
I would suggest getting to a well structured program before attempting your own build. Check some videos on form and you'll be set. If you must stick to machines and what you have above which is kind of like doing "ladders" I would make this kind of adjustment. Set...
1 - 20kg's @ 10reps
2 - 30kg's @ 10reps
3 - 40kg's @ 10reps
4 - 20kg's @ 10reps
5 - 30kg's @ 10reps
6 - 40kg's @ 10reps *heck you may even try a rep max here*
This isn't something you'll want to do everyday and you might even start lighter than this depending on the progression available on the machine (2.5kg's / 10kg's).0 -
Guys, so much helpful advice here! Thank you for all the help.
So, I'm going to give the weights a miss completely today so that my muscles get some rest, (just cardio today), and I'll start this in earnest tomorrow.
It does frustrate me some of the poor advice that I've apparently been given so far.
However some of the techniques suggested here I will definitely try and I might get some free weights for my own use too.
The shoulders are aching today from yesterday's workout so definitely a day off I think.
Can I do rowing on my rest days for some exercise, or am I best to stick to other forms of cardio such as elliptical and bikes?
Thanks again
BFM0 -
Where did you program come from? Has this training approach got a name?0
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boredfatman wrote: »Guys, so much helpful advice here! Thank you for all the help.
So, I'm going to give the weights a miss completely today so that my muscles get some rest, (just cardio today), and I'll start this in earnest tomorrow.
It does frustrate me some of the poor advice that I've apparently been given so far.
However some of the techniques suggested here I will definitely try and I might get some free weights for my own use too.
The shoulders are aching today from yesterday's workout so definitely a day off I think.
Can I do rowing on my rest days for some exercise, or am I best to stick to other forms of cardio such as elliptical and bikes?
Thanks again
BFM
Rowing is fine. It will probably help those achy muscles in fact.0 -
No mention of warm up that I can see? You should be doing a good 5-10 mins of light cardio, bike/treadmill/handmill to get blood moving. Then perform three to four sets of light weight versions of the exercise to prime your nervous system and muscles for what's to come.
If you've not done much before then those weights sound far too heavy. Your muscles basically give up so they don't get injured. You need to build up.
And as most have mentioned, freeweights are much better. Standing and doing overhead presses not only works your shoulders but all your core and stabilising muscles too.
And as others have said, you should never work the same muscles day after day, they should really have a 48-72 rest period depending on their size and amount of work done.0 -
I am very confused by what you're trying to achieve with 10-15 reps. Also- you do the same routine M-F with 40 mins of cardio?
I personally have done Starting Strength/ StrongLifts 5X5 and think that they're great structured (and free) programs that you can do on your own. I can't offer specific advice on shoulder presses, other than that freeweights/bars are better than machines because you have to use your own stabilizing muscles.
I can speak to your overall schedule. Most people have lifting days and cardio days. They may cool down/warm up with cardio on a lift day, but that would be the only exception. You're not going to get the most (strength) out of your lifting if you're fatigued from cardio and you're not going to get the most (max HR, endurance, best time, whatever your target is) out of your cardio if you're fatigued from lifting.
Stronglifts 5X5 is a lifting program that does Monday, Wednesday, Friday lifting days. The non-lifting days (Tues, Thurs, Sat, Sun) can be cardio, with 1-2 rest days. The other great thing about a structured program is that a lot of people do it. If you're in the weight area and you're confused about your deadlift, chances are someone there knows how to deadlift using an olympic bar. You can easily ask someone to check your form, "Hey, can you tell me if my back is curving?" because they've all been there. A few people I know with home gyms set up cameras to record themselves and check their form.
Good luck!
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If you hurt your shoulders, you're out of the running for a LONG time. So using a machine for higher weights is actually a wise thing to do. To at least get the power to perform the exercise correctly.
But are you doing only shoulder presses or are you doing the right thing? That is doing compound exercises like benchpresses, lat pulling which targets the delts indirectly and THEN do shoulder presses?
If not, please do so.
And do some shoulder presses on the machine with higher weights to finish it off with low weight free weight presses. (think 2-3 sets of 10 with 40kg, finishing off with 2-3 sets of 10 with 10kg)
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If you hurt your shoulders, you're out of the running for a LONG time. So using a machine for higher weights is actually a wise thing to do
No. Machines can be really bad for your joints, since they force you to a fixed range of motion, which could be totally wrong with regards to how your joints actually can and want to move.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-TjVJoI7D0
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