Fine tuning the transition from a bulk to a cut...

sjohnson__1
sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
I'm approaching a cut here within the next 25 days, and could use some advice to help fine tune my transition.

My bulk has been steady. I started in early November, eating 3200-3400 calories ). I'm now eating 3700 calories after not gaining for about a week (gaining ~1.2 lbs/week to date). I'm done increasing, however, and as mentioned will be transitioning to a cut here shortly. My first question is how do I recalculate maintenance? I've seen some recommendations to eat at maintenance for a week to two weeks before starting the cut... What's the basis behind that? And how much of a deficit is recommended if I want to maintain strength and muscle?

Thanks in advance.

Replies

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    if you are gaining one pound a week on 3400 that means that your maintenance is going to be about 2900.

    so to start losing again you would need to cut to below 2900....if you want to lose a pound then you need to go 2400..obviously it will be trial and error with the scale to start....

    I am about to transition to my cut as well. I am gaining little over .5 pound per week on 3100 to 3200 a week..so my plan is to drop down to 2300 and see how it goes...

  • AKDonF
    AKDonF Posts: 235 Member
    ^ Agree with @ndj1979 that your theoretical maintenance is ~2900 or so and that you will need to make adjustments to that number as you go.

    Basic adjustments to diet should be to increase protein and begin at about a 20-25% reduction from maintenance calories. Then track changes in weight and body composition to see if you have it right.
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    Any theoretical multipliers for fat? Ie: .45g/lb, etc.
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    Currently I'm set at around 91g's (.45g/lb)
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    AKDonF wrote: »
    ^ Agree with @ndj1979 that your theoretical maintenance is ~2900 or so and that you will need to make adjustments to that number as you go.

    Basic adjustments to diet should be to increase protein and begin at about a 20-25% reduction from maintenance calories. Then track changes in weight and body composition to see if you have it right.

    ^^^ Much appreciated fellas.

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    I would say just keep fat the same...

    maybe reduce carbs a tad and increase protein...?
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I would say just keep fat the same...

    maybe reduce carbs a tad and increase protein...?

    that's my gut reaction when I cut- carbs are so pricey!!!!
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    According to some advice I've receiced, fat should be around 20% of my caloric make-up. If the rule of thumb is that 1 g of fat = 9 calories and my maintenance is around 2900, then a 20% (less 580 cals) cut would put me at 2320. 2320×20%= 464 calories/9 calories per gram = 51.555g's of fat. Damn. This is gonna blow. Haha.

    Math check anyone?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I would say just keep fat the same...

    maybe reduce carbs a tad and increase protein...?

    that's my gut reaction when I cut- carbs are so pricey!!!!

    but they are so damn good..!
  • AKDonF
    AKDonF Posts: 235 Member
    Your math is right. Carbs are always king. They keep leptin levels high for healthy metabolism and they are energy. Also, they are almost never stored as body fat (de nova lipogenesis).
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    AKDonF wrote: »
    Your math is right. Carbs are always king. They keep leptin levels high for healthy metabolism and they are energy. Also, they are almost never stored as body fat (de nova lipogenesis).

    nah brah- protein.

    protein wins. always. lol
    but they are so damn good..!
    yes- yes they are.
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    edited January 2015
    AKDonF wrote: »
    Your math is right. Carbs are always king.

    Carbs I can handle.. limiting fat, now that's a new challenge that I'll adapt to. Time to brainstorm & develop my grocery list come mid Feb!
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    Don't let me forget to say thank you! Much appreciated, all.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    One suggestion I might make for cut food, oatmeal and nonfat yogurt mixed in cold. It's a quick breakfast or snack and fills you up. Add some whey if you need more protein.
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    One suggestion I might make for cut food, oatmeal and nonfat yogurt mixed in cold. It's a quick breakfast or snack and fills you up. Add some whey if you need more protein.

    Brilliant. Keep them coming!

    Any legitimacy to the theory suggesting to consume carbs and fat inversely when in a deficit, eating the majority of ur carbs peri-workout and a majority of ur fats at opposite times? Can't remember where, but I read it recently...

  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    And trust me, I know this is not IIFYM theory. Just thought there could be some legitimacy if done similar to Kiefer's Carbnite or Carb Backloading theories.
  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
    According to some advice I've receiced, fat should be around 20% of my caloric make-up. If the rule of thumb is that 1 g of fat = 9 calories and my maintenance is around 2900, then a 20% (less 580 cals) cut would put me at 2320. 2320×20%= 464 calories/9 calories per gram = 51.555g's of fat. Damn. This is gonna blow. Haha.

    Math check anyone?

    I like to set fixed minimums for fat and protein (not based on % of all macros) based on body weight. An oft-cited rule for fat is approximately 0.35 - 0.4g of fat per pound of bodyweight. For protein, during a cut, I try very hard to stay at 1.1g per pound of lean body mass, sometimes higher as I get closer to my cut goal or if I am aggressively cutting (more than 1 or 1.25 lb per week goal). Higher protein amounts are more important during a cut than a bulk. After I meet my goals on fat and protein, the rest of my available calories are for whatever I want.

    All this usually means:

    Bulk: hit about 0.8 - 1g of protein per lb of LBM, about 0.4g per lb of bodyweight for fat, and lots of carbs.

    Cut: hit about 1.1 - 1.4g protein per lb of LBM, again about 0.4g per lb of bodyweight for fat, and then let the rest fall where they may.

    In other words, in my little world transitioning from a bulk to a cut means more protein, the same fat, and probably a lot less carbs.

  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    edited January 2015
    Cortelli wrote: »
    In other words, in my little world transitioning from a bulk to a cut means more protein, the same fat, and probably a lot less carbs.

    I've heard this pretty much across the board. However, I think in my bulk my fat has been a bit higher than normal. (91g's currently) According to .4g/lb of LBM, if I started the cut right now I'd be right around 64g's, and using some advice I received earlier, I'd be around 52g's.. I'll probably start right in the middle, ~58g's and play with it, up or down, depending on results. Thanks for the info!

    Macro nutrient focused studies (for a cut) are always welcomed in this thread, so feel free to post links if anyone has them!



  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
    Cortelli wrote: »
    In other words, in my little world transitioning from a bulk to a cut means more protein, the same fat, and probably a lot less carbs.

    I've heard this pretty much across the board. However, I think in my bulk my fat has been a bit higher than normal. (91g's currently) According to .4g/lb of LBM, if I started the cut right now I'd be right around 64g's, and using some advice I received earlier, I'd be around 52g's.. I'll probably start right in the middle, ~58g's and play with it, up or down, depending on results. Thanks for the info!

    Macro nutrient focused studies (for a cut) are always welcomed in this thread, so feel free to post links if anyone has them!



    In case you haven't seen Helm's study on protein. I like this "survey of studies" because it focuses on: (1) adults; (2) who are relatively lean already; (3) who are resistance-trained; (4) who are in an energy deficit (i.e., cutting); and (5) who were studied n a manner that includes LBM measurements (not relying on nitrogen balance, or other secondary indicators). Basically why I choose, when cutting, to keep my protein at a higher intake than the oft-recommended 0.8 or 1g per lb of LBM.

    This thread includes a link to the full paper (post by geebusuk in the first page), and a link to a long discussion of the same by Sara (post by johnnythan in the first page). Here's the thread: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1167386/review-of-dietary-protein-during-caloric-restriction/p1

  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,069 Member
    Not a study, but I quite like this article - I tried the carb timing thing for a few days on my last cut but I didn't have the discipline for it (and not advanced enough to need the edge anyway).

    http://www.simplyshredded.com/layne-norton-the-most-effective-cutting-diet.html

    Personally, I do the same as Cortelli - protein and fat (okay, I actually try to stick to it instead of being WAY over) stays the same and carbs take the hit while cutting.
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