Build Muscle or lose the fat ?
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tarheelboy wrote: »Ok so I am 43 years old, 5'11" tall, 207 pounds with probably 30% BF. I have lost 8 pounds in 26 days on my way to losing 30. Is there a benefit to lifting weights while I am cutting calories to lose weight or lose the weight I want and then do the surplus/deficit cycles?
keep lifting weights and eating in a deficit and get your body fat down.
ideally, you want to get to below 15% BF until you do a bulk ...reason being, you are going to gain fat when you bulk, so starting a bulk at 30% is less than optimal...
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franciscvalera wrote: »To gain more muscle you'll need to increase your protein, lower your carbs (possibly consider eliminating them completely). Doing more reps at moderate weight can help maintain muscle tone, while fewer reps with heavier weight will build muscle quickly. But I'm no personal trainer, do some research and see what works best for you.
Two of these statements are actually true. Anyone want to guess which ones?
Haha, just what I was thinking - last two.
OP you need to get into a calorie surplus to gain muscle (those macros might be overkill on the protein if you do). Unless you're tiny, I'm guessing, 1750 doesn't have you at surplus.
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Same as OP. Been lifting modestly for just over a year. Have seen improvement in strength and endurance, but not much definition. Female, 5' 3", 106 lbs, small frame. Am finding it difficult to increase weights. When I do, I am unable to get even five reps with correct form. Suggestions?0
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I only have advanced degrees in lipid biochemistry and biophysics along with bio-organic chemistry, so my broscience is quite low. Take this with a grain of salt, because my knowledge base isn't quite there yet. /s
OP -- You can totally gain muscle while losing fat. People do it all the time. The one thing you cannot do is maintain weight. If you are already at a decent weight and fat percentage you will gain weight with added muscle but you can lose fat. If you are severely overweight you can generally gain muscle while losing fat and lose weight. This is due to fat loss occurring at a greater rate than initial muscle gain (a bit more complicated to explain in short). This happens all the time to severely obese when they work on this stuff.
That said, if you are trying to gain functional muscle (not bulk) then keep working your 5X5 as long as you're still in linear progression while eating a lot of animals and plants. You need to keep your protein high (1g/lean body weight) while allowing your body to choose fat stores to burn for energy. This means you need to modulate your carbohydrate and fat intake to keep in a slow fat burn cycle. You also need to move frequently at a moderate pace. Go for 2 hour walks daily at 3 to 3.5 mile and hour pace. But that said, you will put on weight even though you're burning fat due to the density of muscle. This is where trying to tie a number, e.g. your weight, to health is bad. Go for overall fitness with a healthy amount of fat on your body. If you get to lean you will endanger your health. There is a reason body builders only look that ripped during competition.
If you're trying to bulk up and become a muscle bound Mr. Olympian, then you need to eat a lot. You also need to modulate your lifting for hypertrophy.0 -
Praying_Mantis wrote: »Same as OP. Been lifting modestly for just over a year. Have seen improvement in strength and endurance, but not much definition. Female, 5' 3", 106 lbs, small frame. Am finding it difficult to increase weights. When I do, I am unable to get even five reps with correct form. Suggestions?
You'll see definition with lower body fat. How much lower is determined by your starting body fat and how long you've been lifting. Are you asking for suggestions in increasing weights? If so, what is your programming? Is it focused on progressive overload and periodization? Are you hitting compound movements? Some would say to eat more to lift more, but if you feel your technique and form are falling apart at higher weights, it could be your programming. A recommendation is to work on form and technique at lower weights then slowly move up. 5x5 is a good starting program if you currently aren't following one.0 -
The following are really great reads for this:
http://body-improvements.com/2013/09/04/can-you-build-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
http://body-improvements.com/2012/08/22/qa-how-can-i-go-about-building-some-muscle/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html/
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I only have advanced degrees in lipid biochemistry and biophysics along with bio-organic chemistry, so my broscience is quite low. Take this with a grain of salt, because my knowledge base isn't quite there yet. /s
OP -- You can totally gain muscle while losing fat. People do it all the time. The one thing you cannot do is maintain weight. If you are already at a decent weight and fat percentage you will gain weight with added muscle but you can lose fat. If you are severely overweight you can generally gain muscle while losing fat and lose weight. This is due to fat loss occurring at a greater rate than initial muscle gain (a bit more complicated to explain in short). This happens all the time to severely obese when they work on this stuff.
That said, if you are trying to gain functional muscle (not bulk) then keep working your 5X5 as long as you're still in linear progression while eating a lot of animals and plants. You need to keep your protein high (1g/lean body weight) while allowing your body to choose fat stores to burn for energy. This means you need to modulate your carbohydrate and fat intake to keep in a slow fat burn cycle. You also need to move frequently at a moderate pace. Go for 2 hour walks daily at 3 to 3.5 mile and hour pace. But that said, you will put on weight even though you're burning fat due to the density of muscle. This is where trying to tie a number, e.g. your weight, to health is bad. Go for overall fitness with a healthy amount of fat on your body. If you get to lean you will endanger your health. There is a reason body builders only look that ripped during competition.
If you're trying to bulk up and become a muscle bound Mr. Olympian, then you need to eat a lot. You also need to modulate your lifting for hypertrophy.
You also need about $40k of disposable income for various anabolics and peptides...
Can you gain muscle and burn fat? For severly obese individuals, yes, it happens more often than not. For newbies as well. But for everyone else, if it were to happen at all, it most likely will only happen in the strictest of settings, which I will venture to guess the OP, and most everyone here, is unable or unwilling to do (more so unable). EVERYTHING needs to be perfect. No one has time for that. Plus, the process will be like watching paint dry. The better and more optimal suggestion is to do a true bulk and cut. Anything else is an exercise in futility...
Funny how you state your broscience is quite low, yet you point to Mr. Olympians as an example...0 -
Praying_Mantis wrote: »Same as OP. Been lifting modestly for just over a year. Have seen improvement in strength and endurance, but not much definition. Female, 5' 3", 106 lbs, small frame. Am finding it difficult to increase weights. When I do, I am unable to get even five reps with correct form. Suggestions?
Time to bulk
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dieselbyte wrote: »I only have advanced degrees in lipid biochemistry and biophysics along with bio-organic chemistry, so my broscience is quite low. Take this with a grain of salt, because my knowledge base isn't quite there yet. /s
OP -- You can totally gain muscle while losing fat. People do it all the time. The one thing you cannot do is maintain weight. If you are already at a decent weight and fat percentage you will gain weight with added muscle but you can lose fat. If you are severely overweight you can generally gain muscle while losing fat and lose weight. This is due to fat loss occurring at a greater rate than initial muscle gain (a bit more complicated to explain in short). This happens all the time to severely obese when they work on this stuff.
That said, if you are trying to gain functional muscle (not bulk) then keep working your 5X5 as long as you're still in linear progression while eating a lot of animals and plants. You need to keep your protein high (1g/lean body weight) while allowing your body to choose fat stores to burn for energy. This means you need to modulate your carbohydrate and fat intake to keep in a slow fat burn cycle. You also need to move frequently at a moderate pace. Go for 2 hour walks daily at 3 to 3.5 mile and hour pace. But that said, you will put on weight even though you're burning fat due to the density of muscle. This is where trying to tie a number, e.g. your weight, to health is bad. Go for overall fitness with a healthy amount of fat on your body. If you get to lean you will endanger your health. There is a reason body builders only look that ripped during competition.
If you're trying to bulk up and become a muscle bound Mr. Olympian, then you need to eat a lot. You also need to modulate your lifting for hypertrophy.
You also need about $40k of disposable income for various anabolics and peptides...
Can you gain muscle and burn fat? For severly obese individuals, yes, it happens more often than not. For newbies as well. But for everyone else, if it were to happen at all, it most likely will only happen in the strictest of settings, which I will venture to guess the OP, and most everyone here, is unable or unwilling to do (more so unable). EVERYTHING needs to be perfect. No one has time for that. Plus, the process will be like watching paint dry. The better and more optimal suggestion is to do a true bulk and cut. Anything else is an exercise in futility...
Funny how you state your broscience is quite low, yet you point to Mr. Olympians as an example...
Regarding the bolded part - Erm... no.
Everything doesn't have to be perfect to recomp - you just have to be patient.
I have "time for that" - I'm enjoying steady but slow progress while I'm enjoying my exercise and sport.
"Severely obese" is a complete and ridiculous exageration.
Don't forget that your goals are not everyone else's goals. You may put body composition or muscle hypertrophy as your number 1 priority (I'm guessing) but for me it's about number 4 in my list and comes about because I'm progressing in my strength and fitness goals.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »I only have advanced degrees in lipid biochemistry and biophysics along with bio-organic chemistry, so my broscience is quite low. Take this with a grain of salt, because my knowledge base isn't quite there yet. /s
OP -- You can totally gain muscle while losing fat. People do it all the time. The one thing you cannot do is maintain weight. If you are already at a decent weight and fat percentage you will gain weight with added muscle but you can lose fat. If you are severely overweight you can generally gain muscle while losing fat and lose weight. This is due to fat loss occurring at a greater rate than initial muscle gain (a bit more complicated to explain in short). This happens all the time to severely obese when they work on this stuff.
That said, if you are trying to gain functional muscle (not bulk) then keep working your 5X5 as long as you're still in linear progression while eating a lot of animals and plants. You need to keep your protein high (1g/lean body weight) while allowing your body to choose fat stores to burn for energy. This means you need to modulate your carbohydrate and fat intake to keep in a slow fat burn cycle. You also need to move frequently at a moderate pace. Go for 2 hour walks daily at 3 to 3.5 mile and hour pace. But that said, you will put on weight even though you're burning fat due to the density of muscle. This is where trying to tie a number, e.g. your weight, to health is bad. Go for overall fitness with a healthy amount of fat on your body. If you get to lean you will endanger your health. There is a reason body builders only look that ripped during competition.
If you're trying to bulk up and become a muscle bound Mr. Olympian, then you need to eat a lot. You also need to modulate your lifting for hypertrophy.
You also need about $40k of disposable income for various anabolics and peptides...
Can you gain muscle and burn fat? For severly obese individuals, yes, it happens more often than not. For newbies as well. But for everyone else, if it were to happen at all, it most likely will only happen in the strictest of settings, which I will venture to guess the OP, and most everyone here, is unable or unwilling to do (more so unable). EVERYTHING needs to be perfect. No one has time for that. Plus, the process will be like watching paint dry. The better and more optimal suggestion is to do a true bulk and cut. Anything else is an exercise in futility...
Funny how you state your broscience is quite low, yet you point to Mr. Olympians as an example...
Regarding the bolded part - Erm... no.
Everything doesn't have to be perfect to recomp - you just have to be patient.
I have "time for that" - I'm enjoying steady but slow progress while I'm enjoying my exercise and sport.
"Severely obese" is a complete and ridiculous exageration.
Don't forget that your goals are not everyone else's goals. You may put body composition or muscle hypertrophy as your number 1 priority (I'm guessing) but for me it's about number 4 in my list and comes about because I'm progressing in my strength and fitness goals.
Number one - you don't know me, so don't even attempt to guess what my goals are.
Number two - there's a word called context. I suggest you read the entire post to which I was responding. The poster to which I replied stated the severly obese as an example of fat loss and muscle gain, not me.
Number 3 - there is a difference between strength gains and muscle gains. If you don't think you can get STRONGER without putting on muscle than you don't have a clue. CNS adaptation, muscle memory, increased glycogen stores, better use and understanding of leverages etc are ways to improve strength that don't require an increase in muscle mass. For most individuals, especially trained individuals, there won't be a noticeable or significant amount of muscle gain without a caloric surplus. You need to be in a surplus to build muscle, bottom line. A body recomp isn't it my friend. You aren't building any considerable muscle in a recomp. Here's a line from Lyle McDonald
"The simple fact is that a bodybuilder who refuses to gain any fat and doesn’t put on any muscle between shows won’t be improving year to year. Unless they have perfect symmetry, size, shape, etc. their fear of body fat is preventing them from ever getting any better.
Athletes often have to add muscle mass (to improve strength, power or move up a weight class) and often don’t have very long to do it. Keeping calories too low year round hurts improvements in both mass and strength gains and even weight class athletes such as Olympic Lifters and Powerlifters usually train at a weight slightly higher than their weight class: this lets them eat more food, train more effectively and make faster gains; they can always drop weight and fat when needed.
The simple fact is that the body needs not only an appropriate training stimulus but also sufficient building blocks (protein, amino acids) AND sufficient dietary energy (calories) for maximal improvements. I discuss this in some detail in Calorie Partitioning Part 1 and Calorie Partitioning Part 2. Staying excessively lean (which means either doing tons of cardio, restricting calories, or both) isn’t consistent with the goal of trying to get stronger and more muscular for the most part."
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Nice selective response!
Yes thanks I do know the difference between CNS strength gains and muscle mass gains. As I've been training for longer than you have been alive I have picked up a few snippets of knowledge along the way.
As I don't know you, you also don't know me.
Nice selective quote from Lyle as well.
Just for fun here's another selective quote "Now, when I was younger and only thought I knew what I was talking about, I would often say that the above (talking about recomposition) was impossible to accomplish. In hindsight, impossible was a bit too strong of a term; clearly it’s not impossible as it does happen"
http://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/ It's a good article and worth people reading.
And a nice strawman argument as well - did I say I was adding considerable muscle? No - but again (if you missed it) that isn't my goal. I actually said slow and steady - do you doubt that's possible too?
As for context. Agree totally with you about context - which is why I hate blanket statements. The context for you is completely different for the context for me for example, I'm not a bodybuilder so your body building quote is irrelevant to me but may be relevant to you.
So cut/bulk cycles for you (being both lean and muscular) would be essential or at least optimal, as would being on point with your nutrition. For me bulking would be a really bad choice - compromising my sporting performance and the ratio of fat gain to muscle gain would be really poor, a function of both age and training years.
I have no problem with recommending cut/bulk to people who would benefit from it but it's not the only choice - it would be the wrong choice for me as recomp would be he wrong choice for you.
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I'm 5'4 weigh 127 and Female. Not sure how much fb I have but I think I'm around 20/22% fat. I did the numbers on the iifym calculator and got0
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tarheelboy wrote: »Ok so I am 43 years old, 5'11" tall, 207 pounds with probably 30% BF. I have lost 8 pounds in 26 days on my way to losing 30. Is there a benefit to lifting weights while I am cutting calories to lose weight or lose the weight I want and then do the surplus/deficit cycles?
Lifting weights while cutting will assist in retaining lean mass so more of your weight loss will be from fat. You can also gain strength while lifting at a deficit even if you aren't gaining muscle mass.
Just answered a question I needed to ask, so doing squats etc won't build muscle under my fat but help burn fat instead of losing muscle? so in effect toning me up?0
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