Strength Training Question

Will_Run_for_Food

Hi all - I'm looking for some advice on the recommended amount of strength training based on desired goals.

I'm currently at 146 lbs, 5'6". I would like to be a lean 140 lbs, at least to start. I've been on the following workout schedule for three weeks now:

Monday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (chest, shoulders, triceps)
Tuesday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (legs)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (back, biceps)
Friday: 60 minutes cardio (various machines)
Saturday: 30 minutes cycling
Sunday: 30 minutes cardio (at home workout - usually Shred)

My question is, do you think it is better to separate cardio and strength training days in order to train muscle groups more than once in a week (i.e. Mondays: No cardio but 50 minutes of upper body, Tuesday all cardio, Wednesday Rest, Thursday lower body, Friday cardio, Saturday upper body, Sunday lower body)? Or is a little bit of cardio and a little bit of strength training 3 days a week enough to build muscle? Keeping in mind I don't want to get bulky, just more toned. I guess I am just concerned working out a muscle group once/week doesn't do much to that muscle group.

I appreciate any advice!

AdrianBry

what you got is enough to build muscle provided your muscle workouts are intense enough

hill8570

Personally, I'd go with one of the proven beginner barbell programs (Stronglifts or Starting Strength), which would generally be MWF, and do cardio on the off days. Both programs use compound lifts instead of "targeted" lifts, so they're better for someone just starting out who is weak all over. Targeted or assistance exercises are more for after you've been lifting for a year or more.

beastmode_kitty

Also look up Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 as well!

erickirb

I would suggest checking out starting strength, stornglifts 5x5, strong curves, or new rules of lifting. Lift heavy and cardio on non-lifting days.

Sam_I_Am77

Will_Run_for_Food wrote: »

Hi all - I'm looking for some advice on the recommended amount of strength training based on desired goals.

I'm currently at 146 lbs, 5'6". I would like to be a lean 140 lbs, at least to start. I've been on the following workout schedule for three weeks now:

Monday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (chest, shoulders, triceps)
Tuesday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (legs)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (back, biceps)
Friday: 60 minutes cardio (various machines)
Saturday: 30 minutes cycling
Sunday: 30 minutes cardio (at home workout - usually Shred)

My question is, do you think it is better to separate cardio and strength training days in order to train muscle groups more than once in a week (i.e. Mondays: No cardio but 50 minutes of upper body, Tuesday all cardio, Wednesday Rest, Thursday lower body, Friday cardio, Saturday upper body, Sunday lower body)? Or is a little bit of cardio and a little bit of strength training 3 days a week enough to build muscle? Keeping in mind I don't want to get bulky, just more toned. I guess I am just concerned working out a muscle group once/week doesn't do much to that muscle group.

I appreciate any advice!

Assuming the programming and exercise selection is good for strength training, let's take a look at all this cardio.

What kind of intensity are you using? This amount of cardio really seems excessive and I think over-time the quantity of work will catch-up and hinder your recovery, at the very least hinder strength improvement. I would try to be more specific with the cardio and know what your max heart rate is (220-age).

Mon: Cardio in Zone-1 (aerobic) for 3-min / Zone-2 (aerobic / anerobic) for 3-min (alternate for 18-21 minutes - multiples of 3-min's).
Tue: Cardio in Zone 1: Just this for 20-min's. If your Leg Training is good doing any higher intensity cardio will be tough
Thu: Same as Mon
Fri: Zone-1 for 3-min / Zone-2 for 3-min / Zone-3 (anaerobic) for 1-min
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest or Walk

Remember your weight loss will largely come from your diet and exercise just helps augment the loss. But at the same time you can only do so much.

3laine75

erickirb wrote: »

I would suggest checking out starting strength, stornglifts 5x5, strong curves, or new rules of lifting. Lift heavy and cardio on non-lifting days.

This

jdhcm2006

I agree that you should look at Stronglifts 5x5. On the off days, you could do 30 minutes of cardio.

Sam_I_Am77

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

Will_Run_for_Food wrote: »

Hi all - I'm looking for some advice on the recommended amount of strength training based on desired goals.

I'm currently at 146 lbs, 5'6". I would like to be a lean 140 lbs, at least to start. I've been on the following workout schedule for three weeks now:

Monday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (chest, shoulders, triceps)
Tuesday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (legs)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (back, biceps)
Friday: 60 minutes cardio (various machines)
Saturday: 30 minutes cycling
Sunday: 30 minutes cardio (at home workout - usually Shred)

My question is, do you think it is better to separate cardio and strength training days in order to train muscle groups more than once in a week (i.e. Mondays: No cardio but 50 minutes of upper body, Tuesday all cardio, Wednesday Rest, Thursday lower body, Friday cardio, Saturday upper body, Sunday lower body)? Or is a little bit of cardio and a little bit of strength training 3 days a week enough to build muscle? Keeping in mind I don't want to get bulky, just more toned. I guess I am just concerned working out a muscle group once/week doesn't do much to that muscle group.

I appreciate any advice!

Assuming the programming and exercise selection is good for strength training, let's take a look at all this cardio.

What kind of intensity are you using? This amount of cardio really seems excessive and I think over-time the quantity of work will catch-up and hinder your recovery, at the very least hinder strength improvement. I would try to be more specific with the cardio and know what your max heart rate is (220-age).

Mon: Cardio in Zone-1 (aerobic) for 3-min / Zone-2 (aerobic / anerobic) for 3-min (alternate for 18-21 minutes - multiples of 3-min's).
Tue: Cardio in Zone 1: Just this for 20-min's. If your Leg Training is good doing any higher intensity cardio will be tough
Thu: Same as Mon
Fri: Zone-1 for 3-min / Zone-2 for 3-min / Zone-3 (anaerobic) for 1-min
Sat: Rest
Sun: Rest or Walk

Remember your weight loss will largely come from your diet and exercise just helps augment the loss. But at the same time you can only do so much.

One thing I would add to this is that your rest days could also look something like...
Wed: Joe DeFranco's "Limber 11" flexibility & mobility program
Sat: same
Sun: same

It's on YouTube. This is something that's good to do before workouts too.

Will_Run_for_Food

Thanks, everyone! I will check out this Stronglifts 5 X 5 that many people seem to be talking about.

AllanMisner

I’d consider the following:
Monday - 5x5 (compound movements)
Tuesday - 45 minutes light cardio (walking, easy biking, or play)
Wednesday - 5x5 (compound movements)
Thursday - 45 minutes light cardio (walking, easy biking, or play)
Friday - 5x5 (compound movements)
Saturday - High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) with a 1 - 3 or 1 - 4 work to recovery cycle for 5 - 8 cycles based on your recovery.
Sunday - Rest (can be active rest with some mobility work or very light yoga).

I know I’ll catch some flack for this, but if you eat to maintenance and keep your carbs at low to moderate and get sufficient protein, you should be able to shed some fat while adding muscle. You’ll also see better strength gains if you push for heavier weights.

Will_Run_for_Food

AllanMisner wrote: »

I’d consider the following:

Saturday - High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) with a 1 - 3 or 1 - 4 work to recovery cycle for 5 - 8 cycles based on your recovery.

What does 1 - 3 or 1 - 4 work to recovery cycle mean? 1 minute of work to 3 or 4 minutes of recovery? Vice versa? Neither?

AllanMisner

Will_Run_for_Food wrote: »

AllanMisner wrote: »

I’d consider the following:

Saturday - High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) with a 1 - 3 or 1 - 4 work to recovery cycle for 5 - 8 cycles based on your recovery.

What does 1 - 3 or 1 - 4 work to recovery cycle mean? 1 minute of work to 3 or 4 minutes of recovery? Vice versa? Neither?

Generally, yes, but I prefer to make it more like 20 seconds of all out effort with 60 seconds recovery. When you finish the work part, you should be winded/spent and once you’re able to carry on a conversation, it’s time to go again. If you have a HRM, you can use that as well after work your heart rate should be greater than 90% of 220 - your age. After recovery, your heart rate should be around 50 - 60% of 220 - your age.

If you go all out, you’ll probably only be able to go for 20 - 30 seconds. Anything longer and you’re probably pacing yourself (at least until you get ultra fit).

bingfit221

Will_Run_for_Food wrote: »

Hi all - I'm looking for some advice on the recommended amount of strength training based on desired goals.

I'm currently at 146 lbs, 5'6". I would like to be a lean 140 lbs, at least to start. I've been on the following workout schedule for three weeks now:

Monday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (chest, shoulders, triceps)
Tuesday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (legs)
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: 20 minutes cardio, 30 minutes strength training (back, biceps)
Friday: 60 minutes cardio (various machines)
Saturday: 30 minutes cycling
Sunday: 30 minutes cardio (at home workout - usually Shred)

My question is, do you think it is better to separate cardio and strength training days in order to train muscle groups more than once in a week (i.e. Mondays: No cardio but 50 minutes of upper body, Tuesday all cardio, Wednesday Rest, Thursday lower body, Friday cardio, Saturday upper body, Sunday lower body)? Or is a little bit of cardio and a little bit of strength training 3 days a week enough to build muscle? Keeping in mind I don't want to get bulky, just more toned. I guess I am just concerned working out a muscle group once/week doesn't do much to that muscle group.

I appreciate any advice!

I don't know how I feel about your pairings but that's just a personal preference. Not sure why you aren't working related muscles groups... ie chest with back, bis with tris, etc.... personally, I would be doing chest & back together & shoulders with bis and tris.... Triceps are sister mover to your chest so they are working hard during bench press etc... by the time you get there, they should be relatively spent.

dave4d

It depends on all your goals and what you like to do. Do you like cardio? Do you have a goal to do a 5 or 10k, or a marathon? Do you like lifting? Are you looking to get stronger?

Lifting heavy weights works well for toning. Your best bang for your buck will be to put priority on heavy compound lifts like the ones focused on in Starting Strength, 5-3-1, or Stronglifts 5×5. You will also see results with the program you are doing, as long as you are working intensely enough. I would recommend cardio after weights or on non-lifting days.

keithw2013

I think you are doing just fine.

A couple things though - what are you doing for strength training? Free weights? Machines? Are any of your sets going to failure to where you cannot get another rep - no matter what?

Lastly - do not have any concern over getting bulky as it is just not going to happen. There are lots of guys with testosterone flowing through their veins that train for years and can't get bulky.

On second thought you have very little weight to lose and want to get more "toned" - an additional weightlifting day with reduction in cardio may assist.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Hollywood_Porky

hill8570 wrote: »

Personally, I'd go with one of the proven beginner barbell programs (Stronglifts or Starting Strength), which would generally be MWF, and do cardio on the off days. Both programs use compound lifts instead of "targeted" lifts, so they're better for someone just starting out who is weak all over. Targeted or assistance exercises are more for after you've been lifting for a year or more.

This guy has it down. You can mix and match - but never do chest and shoulders on the same day - believe it or not, both require a push that you cannot get on the same day.

If you are looking for a MWF routine, here's an idea:

M - Chest, Triceps, Abs
W - Back, Biceps, Abs
F - Shoulders, Legs, Abs

Friday is toughest - but you separate and gain 4 days rest off the Monday routine using your triceps - and you have to do legs once/week anyway. Best way to combine it.

You can circuit these to gain a cardio workout or do plain strength training and do cardio on off days (which I recommend as others have on here more).

Find ways to isolate strength to cardio. That's the best way to train over the long haul.

Hollywood_Porky

In addition, as others stated above, do HIIT on off days - and I do recommend if you want to burn some extra calories to do LISS (Light Intensity Steady State) cardio on days you do weight training - but only afterward (or 12 hours before, but never before weight training). Do them at 70% max of HR if you know your max HR through a metabolic test or through an equation like this:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109700010548

The PDF is downloadable from there - or you can get the equation here:

208 − 0.7 × age

From there, you can create zones based upon % - but be advised this is done on an equality basis - not done off a real metabolic test. Trust me, there's a real difference.

erickirb

tedboosalis7 wrote: »

hill8570 wrote: »

Personally, I'd go with one of the proven beginner barbell programs (Stronglifts or Starting Strength), which would generally be MWF, and do cardio on the off days. Both programs use compound lifts instead of "targeted" lifts, so they're better for someone just starting out who is weak all over. Targeted or assistance exercises are more for after you've been lifting for a year or more.

This guy has it down. You can mix and match - but never do chest and shoulders on the same day - believe it or not, both require a push that you cannot get on the same day.

If you are looking for a MWF routine, here's an idea:

M - Chest, Triceps, Abs
W - Back, Biceps, Abs
F - Shoulders, Legs, Abs

Friday is toughest - but you separate and gain 4 days rest off the Monday routine using your triceps - and you have to do legs once/week anyway. Best way to combine it.

You can circuit these to gain a cardio workout or do plain strength training and do cardio on off days (which I recommend as others have on here more).

Find ways to isolate strength to cardio. That's the best way to train over the long haul.

For a beginner that program would not be ideal. a 3 day/week full body program would yeild much greater results.

sijomial

erickirb wrote: »

I would suggest checking out starting strength, stornglifts 5x5, strong curves, or new rules of lifting. Lift heavy and cardio on non-lifting days.

Another vote for this ^^^^

To add....
I wouldn't suggest HIIT cardio on non-lifting days, I'm not a fan of high stress days when you should be recovering from your lifting.

Will_Run_for_Food

keithw2013 wrote: »

I think you are doing just fine.

A couple things though - what are you doing for strength training? Free weights? Machines? Are any of your sets going to failure to where you cannot get another rep - no matter what?

Thanks Keith! For strength training, I use mostly free weights but some machines as well. Most of my sets don't go to failure but I am pretty beat by the 12th or rep each time. Should I go until I can't go no mo?

For those of you asking about my pairings, I got that particular schedule from the interwebs somewhere, I can't remember where though. But thanks for pointing out that it's not good to do chest/shoulders/tris on the same day as that is exactly what I do on Mondays.

I think I will try StrongLifts 5x5 MWF and do cardio (machines in the winter, running/biking the rest of the year) TTS.

zipa78

Will_Run_for_Food wrote: »

Should I go until I can't go no mo?

Only when in bed... Don't do it when lifting, especially not as a beginner doing free weights. The chances that you'll hurt yourself will skyrocket if you try squatting with legs that feel like you had just "gone until you can go no mo" and wobble all over the place.

Even if you decide to go all out, you should always leave one or two reps "in the bank", meaning that you stop when you start losing form. Using squats as an example, I know that I'm done when my squats suddenly have become knee extensions + good mornings. That is, my legs straighten and my butt scoots up, but the bar remains pretty much stationary, and I then find myself wrestling it up by extending my back.

Sam_I_Am77

zipa78 wrote: »

Even if you decide to go all out, you should always leave one or two reps "in the bank".

Training to failure has it's place but you generally don't want to work to failure all the time and leaving a little something in the bank is good. Training to failure all the time is harder to recover from and can lead to injury. Working up to a max effort rep all the time is more like testing your strength rather than building your strength. "Test" your strength every six weeks maybe and working on building your strength the rest of the time.

hmcbride68

AllanMisner wrote: »

I’d consider the following:
Monday - 5x5 (compound movements)
Tuesday - 45 minutes light cardio (walking, easy biking, or play)
Wednesday - 5x5 (compound movements)
Thursday - 45 minutes light cardio (walking, easy biking, or play)
Friday - 5x5 (compound movements)
Saturday - High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) with a 1 - 3 or 1 - 4 work to recovery cycle for 5 - 8 cycles based on your recovery.
Sunday - Rest (can be active rest with some mobility work or very light yoga).

I know I’ll catch some flack for this, but if you eat to maintenance and keep your carbs at low to moderate and get sufficient protein, you should be able to shed some fat while adding muscle. You’ll also see better strength gains if you push for heavier weights.

Excellent basic program outline!

Th3Ph03n1x

Good tips on here I marked it so I can come back to it. Thanks OP for asking this.