building muscle whilst slimming down

cajuntank

AllanMisner wrote: »

I’ve done quite a bit of research on the matter, applied it to my own training (successfully) and seen it work on others. We’re not talking about major deficit, but rather 200 - 300 calories per day on average. The heavy lifting increases active testosterone (especially in men) and having adequate fuel for the lifting sessions and adequate protein for the muscle repair/building and there is no reason for the body to go into a catabolic state. The fat burning is going to occur on the low intensity cardio and rest days when the slight deficit allows for moderate fat usage.

This is not an optimized model for either fat loss or muscle gain, but a compromise approach that allows for a moderate amount of each. The thing about newbie gains is that it takes a while to lose that newbieness. It could be 9 months to a year before he sees a plateau and will have to adjust his eating and/or training.

In either case, assume you’re right. The lifting will help him hold on to muscle while losing some fat (assuming a modest deficit). Beyond lifting heavy, eating good macros at a slight deficit and getting plenty of rest, is there anything you’d add or change? I believe he can accomplish both if he stays committed and disciplined in his training and fueling.

As mentioned, my statements were outside of newbie gains. So what I think you are describing is basically what Lyle describes in his Ultimate Diet 2.0 book. Though he himself states that for the general population, it is impractical. Trying to go from anabolic to catabolic states during the week thru cyclical dieting and very specific types of training, normally is not something John Q Public would want to entertain, for the very minimal effect it has.

And I agree, while he is a newbie, he will experience both for a while.

AllanMisner

I think we’re both agreeing on principle with slight degrees of success. Would you rather lose 5 lbs of fat and lose 1 lb of muscle in a month; or lose 2 1/5 lbs of fat and gain 1 lb of muscle in a month? Option A, you weight less, Option B, you have better overall body composition.

cajuntank

AllanMisner wrote: »

I think we’re both agreeing on principle with slight degrees of success. Would you rather lose 5 lbs of fat and lose 1 lb of muscle in a month; or lose 2 1/5 lbs of fat and gain 1 lb of muscle in a month? Option A, you weight less, Option B, you have better overall body composition.

Direct quote from Lyle McDonald about the use of his cyclical dieting approach with specific training method - "It requires more attention to detail than your typical diet but it also happens to produce results. The feedback I've gotten from testers has surpassed even my original hopes, consistent fat loss of 1.5 pounds per week with no muscle loss (or even gain)". I think your numbers are somewhat overselling its success. But like you said, I think we do agree with the principal, just differ on their degree of success.

Pelamblue

herrspoons wrote: »

If the OP ways 104kg and isn't training naïve, I would strongly suggest a more traditional 1kg/pw weight loss target which equates to 1000 Kcal per day, doing a basic 3x5 or 5x5 routine, and keeping protein at about 180g/pd based on a protein synthesis rate of 30g per three hours (so six or seven meals/shakes/bars/whatever).

The reason being that, assuming he's 6' plus with decent lean mass, this will get the dieting phase out the way in 8-12 weeks without undue lean mass loss. A lean bulk after that would make sense.

I just don't think a program with a minimal calorie deficit, which needs to be precise, will give the results needed within the timescales wanted.

So could the OP try this method? Yes. Should he given what we know about him? Absolutely not.

Thankyou for your replay. This is the general feeling I get. Having spoken to PTI'S that I know they seem to agree with this. I'm not going to be anal about a set routine, diet and exercise wise, because it's not always practical. I will however enjoy my training and make sure I eat the correct food where practical. I'm not trying to get on the cover of any health magazines, I just want to feel good about myself and look in the mirror and be happy with the body I've worked for. Thankyou all for your plethora of information