Obesity research-impossible to lose weight long term?
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I believe most people do gain it back...I know many more people who have lost and regained than who have kept it off. And I think in the majority of cases it is because people think once they hit some magic number they are "done". So then they go back to their old eating patterns and regain. They view "dieting" as temporary, when it really isn't. It really takes a lifestyle change. It takes creating new, healthier habits and reinforcing them every day.
It is relatively east to stay motivated when the scale keeps moving lower and clothes keep getting looser and people keep noticing. But when you hit goal and that stops, you no longer get those little moments to get excited about. You need to instead realize that the way you now feel and look is a direct result of the healthier lifestyle you continue to lead and take your excitement from that. Many people don't think this through. I think that's the same reason so many people give up when they hit a plateau. If they can't deal with not losing for two or three weeks, they probably aren't emotionally ready to keep it off long term.
I think the message from the study should be that you need to realize it never ends. You must continue to do the things that work for you. There is no finish line. I don't find that discouraging. It just takes acceptance that the "diet" is forever and a bit of planning to prevent yourself from slipping back into old habits.
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This is why I LOVE longer term success stories on here, they give me so much hope. The truth is that it is hard, very hard, and you need to make changes you are prepared to follow for the rest of your life. There stops being that very motivating drop on the scale, so it's also harder to keep yourself focused, especially when life takes over.
The success rate for people quitting smoking is also pretty poor for any one attempt. But they try, and try, and try again, and eventually if you try enough times you will figure it out and stop smoking. Eating is harder since it is something we need to balance every day, but it can be done too. And each failed attempt offers many lessons that make the next time even more likely to be successful.0 -
melimomTARDIS wrote: »I think if you stop taking the medicine, it stops working. So I am cool with logging for ever.
So do you continue to take the meds even when not in pain because for example doctors told you to?0 -
I agree that we need to keep up our focus, tracking and weighing regularly is a great way to do so. There may be other ways to stay focused too, but be real with yourself if you are drifting...0
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I'm familiar with multiple studies that show major weight loss is improbable to sustain over a long period of time. But I'm also familiar with the studies that show fat people who don't smoke, eat nutritionally, and exercise daily live as long as skinny people.
So here's to healthy eating and exercise! Cheers!0 -
This is a really poor analogy. If she were taking medication for chronic pain, yes she'd take it even when the pain dissipates because... the meds are working. If she only needed them for x weeks until something healed, then of course she'd stop taking them.yopeeps025 wrote: »melimomTARDIS wrote: »I think if you stop taking the medicine, it stops working. So I am cool with logging for ever.
So do you continue to take the meds even when not in pain because for example doctors told you to?
I also plan to log pretty much indefinitely. If not daily then at least most days. I also plan on doing bulk/cut cycles though, which entails tracking to ensure one doesn't eat too large of a surplus or deficit.
So basically we are all susceptible to regaining the weight, meaning it is a chronic issue to monitor. Take meds for chronic pain, log your intake of food for chronic weight issues. Some find that they don't need to log, but in my experience I was only successful not logging when I ate low cal while exercising too much as mentioned in this thread, which was not sustainable.0 -
I know of one person who didn't gain weight back... out of 5 who lost weight, at the top of my head (30 pounds or more). Although for all I know, she could have gained it back by now.
I don't think it's necessarily because you stop caring once you reach your goal weight, just that it's relatively 'fast' to lose weight, but then you have to keep doing the same thing forever. And when you had bad habits for 10+ years, it takes more than the few months you spent losing weight to learn new habits.
Ok stupid comparison = I'm wearing Invisalign now (invisible braces). The treatment is 10 months long, but after that I'll have to keep a retainer at night for probably 3-5 years until my teeth actually stay in place. It's the same principle... I'm guessing if you were overweight or obese for 10 years, it will take 5 years or more to be able to maintain your weight relatively easy... I started MFP 2 years ago and every day I can see how easily I could slip back to my old habits, considering that I don't love exercise, and moderation is still a struggle most days. When you lose the weight, you don't necessarily lose the reasons that made you overweight in the first place... whatever reasons they were (haven't figured out mine yet, except that I just love food. Doh.).0 -
All of my Nopes.
Just give up and be a fat slob that dies 15 years early if you buy into this tripe. Why spend the time and energy, right? It can't ever work, right? Go ahead. Have that donut. You know you want it ...
SMH0 -
There is a big difference in mindsets between diet and lifestyle change. I've said for years that diets don't work long-term because once someone goes off of the diet, they'll start gaining again because they aren't living any different from when they did before they lost the weight. These are the main reasons I will never do a meal replacement program like NutriSystem because you don't learn anything. This is also why I have planned (and am doing) a slow lifestyle change. I don't cut out things I can't ever live without and I still have my "bad" days. However, I continue to lose slowly and am gaining new habits that I will carry with me for life.0
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This is a really poor analogy. If she were taking medication for chronic pain, yes she'd take it even when the pain dissipates because... the meds are working. If she only needed them for x weeks until something healed, then of course she'd stop taking them.yopeeps025 wrote: »melimomTARDIS wrote: »I think if you stop taking the medicine, it stops working. So I am cool with logging for ever.
So do you continue to take the meds even when not in pain because for example doctors told you to?
I also plan to log pretty much indefinitely. If not daily then at least most days. I also plan on doing bulk/cut cycles though, which entails tracking to ensure one doesn't eat too large of a surplus or deficit.
So basically we are all susceptible to regaining the weight, meaning it is a chronic issue to monitor. Take meds for chronic pain, log your intake of food for chronic weight issues. Some find that they don't need to log, but in my experience I was only successful not logging when I ate low cal while exercising too much as mentioned in this thread, which was not sustainable.
pain=/= chronic pain
So If I did talk about chronic pain you made a good argument.
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1 in 5 is not "nearly impossible". It's 20%. That's a pretty decent rate.
Also, people losing weight in an artificial lab setting or using a diet program are much more likely to put it back on, because they didn't really change their lifestyle. Once they go back to everyday life, they go right back to their old habits.
This study seems to have some good points, but the media's interpretation of it is crap. Then again, the media usually interprets most scientific studies terribly. So I'm not too surprised.
Bottom line: Diets usually fail. Lifestyle changes don't.0 -
I would venture to say that most of the people who are looking to lose a lot of weight have gotten there because of food addiction. (Myself included... I just really, really love food.) And like any kind of addict, if you want to stay clean, you need to be very conscious of your vice and how you react to it. The biggest difference is that unlike (for example) an alcoholic, you HAVE to eat. No recovering addict (or at least one who stays that way for long) says, "Oh, I've been sober for a year. I'm done. Back to the bottle." That's why some people go to AA for YEARS (or the rest of their life)... they're always going to be an alcoholic. I know that I'm not far into my journey, but I realize that once I get to my final number, I will still have to continue to monitor what I eat, how much of it I eat, and what it's doing to my body. No matter where I decide I'm happy and it's time to maintain that weight, there will always be a fat girl inside that would LOVE another piece of pizza. Or cheesecake. I love cheesecake.
So they're right, most people who "diet" are going to gain it back. Eventually that diet will be over and they will fall back into the same habits that got them into that fat suit. The people who change their lifestyle, at least from what I've seen, are going to be exponentially more successful because it's not a change in what you're doing right now, it's a change in what you plan on doing forever.0 -
This is why you can't ever go back to your previous habits. You have to keep logging, keep working out, keep carefully controlling your intake. People who think they will adopt a more "natural" lifestyle gain the weight back. Getting the weight off isn't too natural and keeping it off isn't either IMHO.
As for me, I have to do it or else I will become diabetic. My blood sugar was creeping up as my weight crept up. To have acceptable blood sugar I must weigh less than 125 lb so that means, unless I become disabled such that I cannot work out any more, I will be busting my @$$ for life. If I do become disabled, I will probably have to take medication for diabetes. I can't ever eat like a "normal" person again because maintenance for a person of my size and age is such a low number of calories; that is, 1440. I think success is partly a matter of realizing such things and committing to behave accordingly on a permanent basis. It's kind of sobering to say the least. 0 -
I believe that this is true, in general, but with a few caveats.
First, many overweight people make many attempts to lose weight. So to be honest the chances of success for each individual are better than implied.
Second, I HATE the clickbaity nature of the story. We've got:
- IMPOSSIBLE
- OK, not "impossible", but "almost impossible" and "nearly impossible"
- OK, actually a 5% success rate long term, but even this is a little murky...mumble mumble
How is 5% "nearly impossible?"0 -
Someone once told me that he read a study that people are much more likely to maintain weight loss if they keep trying to lose one more pound. While that's hardly a scientific citation, it makes sense and jives with what everyone else is saying here--you have to stay vigilant to avoid slipping back into old habits.
I also think that societal expectations for a "healthy" or "attractive" weight don't always fit with biology. My natural (non-monitored, max) weight has me looking like a typical renaissance nude, which is probably what my biology wants me to look like. At that weight, I'm "healthy" according to my doctor (solid lab work, etc.), but "obese" according to the weight charts. I can easily weigh that much eating just "healthy" foods and exercising moderately. Of course, I don't want to look like a renaissance nude, so I fight biology, which is why it takes constant monitoring! I do think it's important to acknowledge that our expectations for how our bodies should look in middle age might be unnatural and that's why it take so much more work to keep them there.0 -
I found empirical information like this very helpful. I've used this to make better choices. What our bodies are doing reminds me of the "Helium Stick" team exercise.
http://www.theteambuildingactivitiesshop.co.uk/heliumstick.htm
No matter how badly the team wants to drop, the various metabolic processes (members of the team) inadvertently influence a rise. It only takes a few.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.long
http://www.nwcr.ws/
I am focusing on permanent lifestyle change to maintain what I've lost.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »
This is a really poor analogy. If she were taking medication for chronic pain, yes she'd take it even when the pain dissipates because... the meds are working. If she only needed them for x weeks until something healed, then of course she'd stop taking them.yopeeps025 wrote: »melimomTARDIS wrote: »I think if you stop taking the medicine, it stops working. So I am cool with logging for ever.
So do you continue to take the meds even when not in pain because for example doctors told you to?
I also plan to log pretty much indefinitely. If not daily then at least most days. I also plan on doing bulk/cut cycles though, which entails tracking to ensure one doesn't eat too large of a surplus or deficit.
So basically we are all susceptible to regaining the weight, meaning it is a chronic issue to monitor. Take meds for chronic pain, log your intake of food for chronic weight issues. Some find that they don't need to log, but in my experience I was only successful not logging when I ate low cal while exercising too much as mentioned in this thread, which was not sustainable.
pain=/= chronic pain
So If I did talk about chronic pain you made a good argument.
But I think that the point of the article is that obesity is chronic, rather than acute, and therefore needs lifelong management in order to keep the weight off. This is where the whole "lifestyle change" vs diet advice comes from.
On another note, I always find it sad that so many people see this kind of article as a reason to give up and not even try. I posted some research on willpower a while ago that I thought was really useful and encouraging, only to find that people see the obstacle/issue, and often stop there and quit instead of asking "okay, so what does this mean? what do I do to overcome this and succeed?" To me, if I want to succeed, I want to know each and every roadblock in advance so I can go around them and make sure I get to my destination. I thought the message of this article was that whatever most people are doing to lose the weight isn't sustainable, so the upshot (for me) would be "what would be more sustainable?"
I try to focus on optimum health rather than weight, so there is no "end goal", after which I will stop doing what I am doing and go back to a typical western diet. It also happens that the foods that make me feel best and that research says may reduce my risk factors for cancer and heart disease are also the ones that keep me at a healthy weight, so I can't really see myself putting weight on unless I consciously decide to change my lifestyle. I am not 100% perfect, by any means, but I try to eat mainly fruit, vegetables and beans, and keep the chocolate and corn chips as treats rather than daily habits. Okay, except the almost daily dark chocolate square, lol (told you I'm not perfect
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I know that a large and vocal contingent on MFP talks about the primacy of CICO for weight loss (which is 100% true, I'm not disputing it), but I think that a focus on good habits, fresh produce, and treating calorie and added fat/sugar rich foods as condiments rather than staples is a way to make long term maintenance much easier without hunger and without having to weigh and measure all the time. Personally, I like the measurement part so I am fine with doing both.
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I lost 70 lbs eight years ago. Did it by eating "better" and lots of exercise.
Gained it all back. See, when I lost it, I was single work a roommate who was doing it with me. We both got married, I went back to my old habits, with inevitable results.
This time will be different. Mainly in two ways.
1. Rather than an amorphous goal of eating "better" I use this wonderful tool to track it. I don't get the threads here that bemoan having to log. I view it as taking control of my caloric budget, no different from balancing my checkbook.
2. Rather than exercising merely to lose weight and look better, I am exploring physical activities that I might actually enjoy doing as a hobby in thier own right. Yoga, hiking, biking,etc.
Hopefully those two changes will be enough.
I always try to remember that the only way you ever truly fail is if you fail to learn from your failure.0 -
dougpconnell219 wrote: »1. Rather than an amorphous goal of eating "better" I use this wonderful tool to track it. I don't get the threads here that bemoan having to log. I view it as taking control of my caloric budget, no different from balancing my checkbook.
2. Rather than exercising merely to lose weight and look better, I am exploring physical activities that I might actually enjoy doing as a hobby in thier own right. Yoga, hiking, biking,etc.
SO MUCH THIS! All of this!
That's exactly my approach, too.
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Much of this sounds like a bunch of bunk. And in any event, it doesn't apply to me, so whatever. I've never been an emotional eater and have a pretty darn good metabolism (genes). Barring medical reasons that would cause me to put on weight (not cause me to just be inactive), I don't see myself putting back on the weight (which I only gained as a result of pregnancy).
Sure, if you diet, lose the weight, and then go back to your old lifestyle, you'll regain the weight. If you change your lifestyle to one that is active and eat mindfully, you will stay fit. I love, love, love the outdoors. I have a long list of active bucket list items that will take me a lifetime to accomplish. And I have no intention of calorie counting for the rest of my life. I rarely do it now. Learning proper nutrition, portion control, and finding an active activity that you are passionate about is where its at for long-term fitness.
Dieting fails long term. That I think is accurate.0 -
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dougpconnell219 wrote: »2. Rather than exercising merely to lose weight and look better, I am exploring physical activities that I might actually enjoy doing as a hobby in thier own right. Yoga, hiking, biking,etc.
This is a key for me too.
I find that I eat pretty well when I'm exercising and being active. (I gained a decent amount of weight eating pretty well because I stopped exercising and didn't adjust for the tremendous fall in my TDEE, which is depressingly low when I'm sedentary anyway.)
I kept the weight off for 5 years last time before starting to regain (and regained alarmingly fast, looking back), and while there were a number of reasons I went from active to sedentary one related to a change in my social circles. I went from having athletic activities being a huge part of my social life to spending time mostly with people who enjoyed eating out (which I've always enjoyed anyway) and seeing plays and concerts and such. I continued training for races and so on as motivation, but it slowly became something that I just did on my own or fit into my spare time.
I still do enjoy exercising on my own--a long run or bike ride can be a way of relaxing--but I am working hard to also incorporate it into my social life and being part of a community with similar interests, as it can help so much in keeping you into it, IME.
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »I know that a large and vocal contingent on MFP talks about the primacy of CICO for weight loss (which is 100% true, I'm not disputing it), but I think that a focus on good habits, fresh produce, and treating calorie and added fat/sugar rich foods as condiments rather than staples is a way to make long term maintenance much easier without hunger and without having to weigh and measure all the time. Personally, I like the measurement part so I am fine with doing both.
I totally agree with all this, but simply don't see any conflict.
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I can't agree that the high failure rate means that it is inevitable to regain weight after a loss. I have sustained a 75 pound weight loss for nearly 15 years, and even through having two kids those pounds stayed off. Our culture has a crazy diet culture that does not teach sustainable habits. It is easy to lose weight on a very restrictive diet, but nearly impossible to keep those restrictions going in the long term. Many people yo-yo diet for decades without learning portion control and how to stop eating for emotional purposes. On top of all this, our food culture is incredibly unhealthy. All around are messages to make poor choices - from advertising, the abundance of cheap processed food, to the workplace culture of having "treats" nearly every day of the year. These unhealthy messages are very often contained in diet programs themselves. Permanent weight loss requires a total change of mind-set around food and it requires acting in a way that is contrary to the messages and experiences that surround us. That is very difficult to achieve, but certainly not impossible.0
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Okay, I lost 130+ pounds over the course of 15 months. I have been maintaining that loss for 2.5 years. This is what I know:
- I created habits while losing: logging food most of the time, exercising, planning, with the goal of living the healthiest life I could enjoy. I did not go on a diet. I changed how I ate and moved and lived.
- These habits aren't that hard. Logging takes a few minutes a day. Planning a menu is routine. Exercise is something I like to do - I just don't do things I dislike, such as slaving on an elliptical for an hour bored out of my mind.
- My life is more enjoyable now. I cannot believe the increase in the quality of life I've experienced, and I was happy when I was fat too! Now it's incredible - I am just happier and feel limitless. Rock climbing? Yep! Vacation to the beach? Why not. Spring break hiking trip to Utah? Coming up in March. These are not adventures I would have had before.
- I have nice clothes. I like wearing them.
- The price I have to pay to continue to enjoy my life and wear my expensive clothes is keeping up with those habits I created. I accept that I will never be able to live as effortlessly as my always-healthy-weighted friends. I am different, and that's fine. I just need to accept that I'll always need some sort of logging and exercise program to stay at this weight.
- Since I didn't create terribly restrictive habits that made me miserable, this is achievable on the long term.
tl;dr version: if I continue to live like a person with a healthy weight, I will stay a person who is a healthy weight.
if I stop, I will gain weight.
yes, there are biological factors at play. Yes, most people fail. Sure, I might fail too. If I am struck by a horrible stressor or illness or injury, yep - it will be damn hard to keep up these habits.
If that happens, I am sure glad I have my MFP friends to help me climb back to what is my new normal. Because this normal makes me happy, and as long as I can, I choose happy.
I'm not sure what this adds to the conversation, except what I've always believed: don't go on a diet, just start living like the person you want to be. Your weight will catch up. Continue living your life that way, and your weight will stay. It's nothing but a product of our habits, after all.
(sidenote: a blog entry I wrote during a tough period, about why I'm never going back: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/ShannonMpls/view/why-i-m-never-going-back-709782 )0 -
One hour a day of exercise is such overkill though! [/quote]
I disagree with an hour being overkill. I joined MFP to lose about 7-10 pounds that creeped up on me during my mid 40s. My metabolism has certainly shifted so now I'm monitoring my calories, but I've never been officially overweight.
Most of my close friends/family maintain healthy weight and have never been significantly overweight. We all exercise about 45-60 min most days.
We've been doing that for most of our adult lives. It's not excessive or obsessive or overkill -- it's part of our healthy lifestyles. We run, play tennis, swim, bike, xfit, walk to work, etc.
Don't despair!
If the article means a person can't be sedentary and overeat and maintain a healthy weight, I'm sure that's correct. Of course it is!
But it IS possible to manage an appropriate diet and exercise. And that will keep the weight off.
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Of course the article is real. We all see it and experience it every day. I think it is important for everyone to read this too and know what we are up against. I also lost a bunch of weight and gained most of it back despite "doing everything right" and developing better lifestyle and eating habits and logging food and losing at a modest rate. My very real past history and the very real past histories of many people that were tracked over a long period of time in this and other research are very sobering. Looking at my own family members, friends and most other Americans is also sobering. I am going to bust my butt to be one of the few successes but I also know the odds are against long-term success and it won't happen without a solid plan and solid execution, forever.0
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One hour a day of exercise is such overkill though!
I disagree with an hour being overkill. I joined MFP to lose about 7-10 pounds that creeped up on me during my mid 40s. My metabolism has certainly shifted so now I'm monitoring my calories, but I've never been officially overweight.
Most of my close friends/family maintain healthy weight and have never been significantly overweight. We all exercise about 45-60 min most days.
We've been doing that for most of our adult lives. It's not excessive or obsessive or overkill -- it's part of our healthy lifestyles. We run, play tennis, swim, bike, xfit, walk to work, etc.
Don't despair!
If the article means a person can't be sedentary and overeat and maintain a healthy weight, I'm sure that's correct. Of course it is!
But it IS possible to manage an appropriate diet and exercise. And that will keep the weight off.
Add to that that they (NWCR) say that the most common exercise among their maintainers is walking.
I know a lot of people who walk 30 minutes at lunch and 30 minutes after dinner. I wouldn't consider that excessive.
Heck, I aim for 10k steps a day on my fitbit and that gets me ~45 "active minutes" a day. I would just have to add 30 minutes of exercise every other day and I'm good to go (I already do more than that, it's just perspective).
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obscuremusicreference wrote: »cheshirecatastrophe wrote: »http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/WeightLossMaintenance.html
to above point about what common denominators of those that have been successful.
Thanks; this is really interesting. The statistic about how many more men than women follow formal weight-loss programs is surprising. (Thinking about how WW, Jenny Craig etc market so clearly to women.) I'd love to know what "formal weight-loss program" entails. Will have to dig up the actual study.
/nerd
I think MFP counts as a formal weight loss program. If you do it right, you're weighing and logging, you're accountable to friends, and you weigh in. Or maybe it just seems formal to me because most previous diets I've been on have been scrabbled together with half-remembered Women's Health articles and dreams.
I think MFP is a huge plus as a weight loss program. One has to have a starting point and data so they can evolve into the eating lifestyle that works for them. Herspoon hits the nail on the head in that it is all about eating lifestyle NOT just losing weight. We all have done that many times. Keeping it off is the only thing that is truly hard .
MFP with a worldwide solution to help the world to become more healthy.
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Hahaha me too! 
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