Losing Strength on deficit

McCloud33

I've been cutting for the first time since I started lifting since the beginning of the year. I've read that strength can go down while in a deficit, but I was just surprised by how quickly and how dramatically mine has dropped off. I was hoping to maintain my strength, or at the very least just lose a little. Just wondering what others experiences have been with this.

For reference I was squating close to 300 on 3x5 and this morning 250 felt REALLY heavy. Same with Bench Press - went from 210 5x5 to 185 5x5 this morning.

natecooper75

Is the calorie deficit the only thing that changed? How big of a deficit are you on? Is this the first time you have experienced this loss of strength since you went on the deficit? There are a multitude of things that can cause this issue. Unless you have had problems with this over the past few workouts or you are on a massive deficit, I would assume this may be chalked up to a bad workout. We all have days where we can't handle our 'normal' weights and this could be one of those time.

sijomial

Had the same immediate thought - how big a deficit?

Other thought - how long since your last deload?

McCloud33

I am on a pretty big deficit. Averaging about 1730 cal/day gross over the last month. Trying to get down to ~12% BF. I was up to ~19-20% and am back down in the 16-17% range right now.

I deloaded at the beginning of the month as well. Went down to 225 squat, 135 bench, 275 DL, 95 overhead press and 135 BO Row. I've been able to add 5 lbs every workout moving back up, and because I knew that recovery was going to be harder on the deficit, I dropped my lifting down from 3x a week to 2x a week.

jacksonpt

How big of a deficit does that create for you? Maintenance cals - 1730 = ???

Also, 1 day does not a weakling make. Could just be a bad day. IME, bad days happen more often when cutting.

LolBroScience

Already mentioned above but it could be a few things....

1. Poor sleep
2. External stressors burning you out
3. Just a bad workout
4. Too large of a deficit
5. Too much volume while in a deficit
6. Just in your head

to name a few...

McCloud33

@jacksonpt TDEE is around 2200 and then I average about 3-400 in exercise cals/day, so yes, I understand that it's a big deficit. I tried doing a lower deficit the middle of last year, but it seemed like I wasn't losing much weight AND my lifts weren't progressing so I just said f-it and bulked until the end of the year and made good progress on my lifts, but gained 10 lbs in the process.

jacksonpt

I'm running a similar deficit and set 3 PRs last cycle. Maintaining strength shouldn't be a problem. Increasing strength should happen, but it'll be slower for most people. Adding 5lbs every week/workout is probably too ambitious on a big cut.

Also, there's a big difference between cutting and gaining 10lbs... might want to double check that your cals/estimates are correct.

McCloud33

@LolBroScience‌
1. Could be, but I get 7-8 hours a night and try and take a 30 min nap at lunch too
2. Not really in a stressful job and home life is going well too
3. I've felt it coming on over the last 2 weeks. Monday, was the first time that it really hit me though. They got a new squat rack at the gym and so I decided to go for a 2-3RM and I couldn't do anything over 315...not even for a single. My 1RM in the middle of Dec was 405 and I felt like I might have had another 20-30 lbs in me if I had the time.
4. As I said, this may be the case, and if it is, I'm willing to sacrifice the strength at this point if it means I can drop my BF down and not have it take 2 years to drop 15 lbs.
5. I already dropped down to 2 days a week and 3x5 on my squats. I might go to 3x5 on the bench soon as well.
6. Isn't it all in our head?

jacksonpt

McCloud33 wrote: »

5. I already dropped down to 2 days a week and 3x5 on my squats. I might go to 3x5 on the bench soon as well.

What's the rest of your routine look like?

McCloud33

jacksonpt wrote: »

I'm running a similar deficit and set 3 PRs last cycle. Maintaining strength shouldn't be a problem. Increasing strength should happen, but it'll be slower for most people. Adding 5lbs every week/workout is probably too ambitious on a big cut.

Also, there's a big difference between cutting and gaining 10lbs... might want to double check that your cals/estimates are correct.

I lost 35 lbs last year from Jan-May and then upped my calories when I started lifting in June to a little bit below maintenance so that I was only losing about .25/week and that was at about 1900-2000 calories. I think part of that was my body adjusting to the lower calories from the prior 6 months because I should have been losing more. So that's when I stopped cutting and then gained 10lbs over the next 5 months (about .5lbs/wk).

McCloud33

jacksonpt wrote: »

McCloud33 wrote: »

5. I already dropped down to 2 days a week and 3x5 on my squats. I might go to 3x5 on the bench soon as well.

What's the rest of your routine look like?

Basically, I do SL 5x5 (3x5 on squats), I bike to work nearly every day, I go play basketball for an hour or so on Wed, and I try and do 2-3 runs a week of between 2-4 miles each.

jacksonpt

That's a lot. Are you netting 1900 cals (i.e. eating back exercise cals)?

Also, do you have any rest/recovery days?

yopeeps025

My question would be when does your newbie program turn into a intermediate program?

McCloud33

@jacksonpt It's doing something 5 days a week. I usually get 2 rest days. No, it's not 1900 net. It would be closer to 1400 net. 1700gross - 300exercise

jacksonpt

McCloud33 wrote: »

@jacksonpt It's doing something 5 days a week. I usually get 2 rest days. No, it's not 1900 net. It would be closer to 1400 net. 1700gross - 300exercise

My bet is that's your problem. Cut back on the cardio or increase cals. Or both if you want your lifts to keep up.

Lofteren

If strength maintenance is your goal while cutting, you will want to lift with lower volume and higher intensity than you are used to. For example, if you normally do 5x5, I would do something like 3x3 or 4x2 with a proportionally larger weight just to make sure that you get your hands on something really heavy every training session. Also, if you do a lot of accessory movements you will want to minimize that as well. Most accessory movements are frivolous anyway. If you MUST do them then keep it really, really, really light and keep the reps around 20.

McCloud33

If I keep the big deficit until I get down to where I want weight/BF wise, how long after kicking the calories back up to maintenance will it take for strength to come back? Any experience with that?

McCloud33

@Lofteren‌ If I move to more of a 3x3, should I up the amount of warm-up sets to still get some reps in even if it's with lighter weights? That's a big difference going from 25 total reps down to 9

@jacksonpt‌ I guess I'm "ok" with losing strength to maintain the rate at which I'm losing, and I even expected it. I guess I'm asking if the % drop that I'm experiencing is normal and if there's anything (other than upping my calories) that I can do to maintain what strength I still have.

xcalygrl

From what you've said, it appears your deficit is the cause for the decrease in strength.

I'm currently cutting. I am eatin 1800 calories a day (maintenance is around 2100-2200). I haven't had a decrease in strength (I've actually impoved on some of my lifts). It is slower going, but I have been able to add weight to my lifts. (I've been lifting for a year and half, heavy via SL for 4 months, cutting since starting SL in September.)

Lofteren

Meh, that will kind of happen out of necessity since you're working up to a heavier weight.
I'm assuming right now it looks something like:
45x10
135x5
225x5
315x5x5

You could just swap this to:
45x10
135x3
225x3
315x1
345x3x3

jacksonpt

Lofteren wrote: »

If strength maintenance is your goal while cutting, you will want to lift with lower volume and higher intensity than you are used to. For example, if you normally do 5x5, I would do something like 3x3 or 4x2 with a proportionally larger weight just to make sure that you get your hands on something really heavy every training session. Also, if you do a lot of accessory movements you will want to minimize that as well. Most accessory movements are frivolous anyway. If you MUST do them then keep it really, really, really light and keep the reps around 20.

Good advice here.

McCloud33

Lofteren wrote: »

Meh, that will kind of happen out of necessity since you're working up to a heavier weight.
I'm assuming right now it looks something like:
45x10
135x5
225x5
315x5x5

You could just swap this to:
45x10
135x3
225x3
315x1
345x3x3

Something like that...today my squat was
45x10
135x5
225x3
250x5x3

Bench was
45x10
135x5
185x5x5

I'll try going heavier for less reps though. Thanks,

LolBroScience

jacksonpt wrote: »

McCloud33 wrote: »

@jacksonpt It's doing something 5 days a week. I usually get 2 rest days. No, it's not 1900 net. It would be closer to 1400 net. 1700gross - 300exercise

My bet is that's your problem. Cut back on the cardio or increase cals. Or both if you want your lifts to keep up.

Lofteren wrote: »

If strength maintenance is your goal while cutting, you will want to lift with lower volume and higher intensity than you are used to. For example, if you normally do 5x5, I would do something like 3x3 or 4x2 with a proportionally larger weight just to make sure that you get your hands on something really heavy every training session. Also, if you do a lot of accessory movements you will want to minimize that as well. Most accessory movements are frivolous anyway. If you MUST do them then keep it really, really, really light and keep the reps around 20.

I second these two areas

McCloud33

So I haven't cut back on the cardio, but I have upped my cals by a couple hundred a day, have tried doing a couple heavy reps toward the end and moving the weight up every other/third session and it seems to be helping some. I'm also trying to do a carb re-feed once a week. Thanks for the advice guys.