Adopting healthy habits: It's not just about losing weight
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lthames0810 wrote: »It seems that many people claim health as a reason to lose weight, but I think most of us are motivated more by our appearance than our health, if truth is told. /quote]
That would be me, i wanted to lose weight ready for a beach holiday. Lucky for me the holiday was booked well in time so i had 10 months to do it in. My only issues at the time were constant heart burn, and tired all the time, i didnt really tie that in with my extra weight. I now know better.
I am still working on the veggies but I count the calories and have forced the exercise into my daily routine. As a result i have lost weight, and i feel so much better for it. So for me i think losing weight and becoming healthier all goes hand in hand.0 -
sorry didnt use the quotes well.
That would be me, i wanted to lose weight ready for a beach holiday. Lucky for me the holiday was booked well in time so i had 10 months to do it in. My only issues at the time were constant heart burn, and tired all the time, i didnt really tie that in with my extra weight. I now know better.
I am still working on the veggies but I count the calories and have forced the exercise into my daily routine. As a result i have lost weight, and i feel so much better for it. So for me i think losing weight and becoming healthier all goes hand in hand.0 -
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.0 -
So right about healthy habits. The problem with goals like "healthier lifestyle" is that it isn't sexy, and it doesn't have an instant gratification element. Heck, neither does dieting. Eighteen months after starting my weight loss plan, I am getting a much bigger kick out of my fitness goals. They seem to be so much more under my control.
Here's an article about seven keystone habits that have been proven, once established, to lead to even more good habits. I've listed them here too.
http://liveboldandbloom.com/08/habits/keystone-habits
1. Exercise (as little as five minutes a day)
2. Food journaling (MFP is a testament to this)
3. Eating family dinners (benefits to children and related habits include homework skills, better grades, confidence, and emotional control)
4. Making your bed (more productivity, sense of well-being, and budgeting)
5. Visualization (increased performance to desired outcomes)
6. Positive thinking (improves mood, outlook)
7. Plan your day the night before (more likely to complete goals)0 -
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
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Certain foods are absolutely linked with certain medical conditions regardless of weight. Being overweight does not directly cause diseases, though it is also linked with many. Both play a role, and to deny that is what is silly.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
The post you're agreeing with advocates eliminating things because we might get a medical issue.
Which is silly. People don't get medical issues from foods. They get them from gross overconsumption of those foods.
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Most people who tell general you to quit demonizing food are the IIFYM crowd. And the key word of that acronym is MACROS not calories. By definition, they care about what they are eating because they have chosen macro requirements to help meet their goals. So, some of them choose to make ice cream or doritos fit into their fat, carb, protein, calcium goals for the day. But, the only way for most people with restricted cals to do that is to also eat lean proteins and lots of fruits and veggies. Or to exercise. Or both. It's a cycleMoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
I'm of both the reduced carb (for PCOS/IR) and IIFYM mindset. If I can get pretty close to my percentages (I'm good with a +-5% range) and calories, I eat what I want "treat" wise. But, I have to eat plenty of "healthy" to achieve that on a daily basis.
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Certain foods are absolutely linked with certain medical conditions regardless of weight. Being overweight does not directly cause diseases, though it is also linked with many. Both play a role, and to deny that is what is silly.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
The post you're agreeing with advocates eliminating things because we might get a medical issue.
Which is silly. People don't get medical issues from foods. They get them from gross overconsumption of those foods.
I haven't ever seen an example of a food eaten in moderation being causally linked to a medical condition. I'm willing to learn though if you have an example.
I know there are a few correlative studies and a few studies where the amount of food consumed was well past what anyone would consider moderation.
But honestly what you're describing (having something monthly instead of daily) sounds like moderation to me. Which is what the people with whom you're disagreeing advocate.
edited because I left out a word.
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I'm not interested in hijacking this thread. I know how this plays out...I name two or three foods that are not good for you. You then demand studies to prove this. Then you find some imagined flaw in every study...like it was done on animals, or included self-reported data, or was released on a Tuesday, or was carried out by a scientist named Jim...as if any of that invalidates the results...it doesn't. Then your "junk food is healthy and MUST be eaten by everyone daily otherwise the world will come to an end" friends jump in and we have 200 posts which accomplish nothing. No thank you.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Certain foods are absolutely linked with certain medical conditions regardless of weight. Being overweight does not directly cause diseases, though it is also linked with many. Both play a role, and to deny that is what is silly.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
The post you're agreeing with advocates eliminating things because we might get a medical issue.
Which is silly. People don't get medical issues from foods. They get them from gross overconsumption of those foods.
Such as? Please specify the quantities involved at which point they become a problem.
There is more than enough evidence to convince me and most educated people that what you eat matters as much as how much you eat in terms of long term health. We are never going to agree on this, so let's save 200 posts and just agree to disagree.
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You've made choices that work for you. I may be a little more strict about how frequently I have certain things, but it seems we may be trying to limit some of the same things....not that it matters really. Anybody can eat anything they like, I just don't think it is appropriate for people who do eat certain foods to try to talk people who want to give them up into still eating them. That happens every day on this site. There is more to health than weight.
Most people who tell general you to quit demonizing food are the IIFYM crowd. And the key word of that acronym is MACROS not calories. By definition, they care about what they are eating because they have chosen macro requirements to help meet their goals. So, some of them choose to make ice cream or doritos fit into their fat, carb, protein, calcium goals for the day. But, the only way for most people with restricted cals to do that is to also eat lean proteins and lots of fruits and veggies. Or to exercise. Or both. It's a cycleMoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
I'm of both the reduced carb (for PCOS/IR) and IIFYM mindset. If I can get pretty close to my percentages (I'm good with a +-5% range) and calories, I eat what I want "treat" wise. But, I have to eat plenty of "healthy" to achieve that on a daily basis.
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »
You've made choices that work for you. I may be a little more strict about how frequently I have certain things, but it seems we may be trying to limit some of the same things....not that it matters really. Anybody can eat anything they like, I just don't think it is appropriate for people who do eat certain foods to try to talk people who want to give them up into still eating them. That happens every day on this site. There is more to health than weight.
Most people who tell general you to quit demonizing food are the IIFYM crowd. And the key word of that acronym is MACROS not calories. By definition, they care about what they are eating because they have chosen macro requirements to help meet their goals. So, some of them choose to make ice cream or doritos fit into their fat, carb, protein, calcium goals for the day. But, the only way for most people with restricted cals to do that is to also eat lean proteins and lots of fruits and veggies. Or to exercise. Or both. It's a cycleMoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
I'm of both the reduced carb (for PCOS/IR) and IIFYM mindset. If I can get pretty close to my percentages (I'm good with a +-5% range) and calories, I eat what I want "treat" wise. But, I have to eat plenty of "healthy" to achieve that on a daily basis.
I would love to see an example of that... :noway:
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herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
The post you're agreeing with advocates eliminating things because we might get a medical issue.
Which is silly. People don't get medical issues from foods. They get them from gross overconsumption of those foods.
No, the post the're replying to is referring specifically to those who respond to questions about eliminating something by immediately asking WHYYYYYYY? and in some cases, telling them they're stupid and they shouldn't ever give anything up if they like it. There are too many people who seem to take it personally if someone wants to give up anything, when frankly, it's none of their damn business. If someone wants to cut back on something, and asks for advice, people who insist on responding by saying "there's no reason to" or "you're doing it wrong" are basically just attention seeking.
Bonus points when the main defense is "that has nothing to do with weight loss," as if weight loss is the only possible reason anyone on earth would stop consuming something. (see original post) Who gives a *kitten* if it has anything to do with weight loss?0 -
What I find fascinating, at least according to the graph, is that those in the "Healthy" BMI range actually had larger mortality with 1 or 2 healthy habits than those with 0 healthy habits.0
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beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Well, now, wait... you can still eat heathfully without eliminating treats. You just need to be moderate in their consumption.
Obviously, if you have a medical condition like celiac disease or a food allergy, you need to eliminate foods, but otherwise, there's no need to completely eliminate anything.
I'm one of those people with medical conditions. Nothing (except gluten because I DO have celiac) is eliminated from my diet. I very rarely consume certain things out of preference, but I still can have treats when I want them. On occasion. In proper portions. As a treat. That's what moderation means. And there's nothing unhealthy about that. In the context of an overall eating plan that still includes all the veggies I eat, a couple of cookies or a small dish of ice cream every now and then isn't unhealthy.
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herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
The post you're agreeing with advocates eliminating things because we might get a medical issue.
Which is silly. People don't get medical issues from foods. They get them from gross overconsumption of those foods.
No, the post the're replying to is referring specifically to those who respond to questions about eliminating something by immediately asking WHYYYYYYY? and in some cases, telling them they're stupid and they shouldn't ever give anything up if they like it. There are too many people who seem to take it personally if someone wants to give up anything, when frankly, it's none of their damn business. If someone wants to cut back on something, and asks for advice, people who insist on responding by saying "there's no reason to" or "you're doing it wrong" are basically just attention seeking.
Bonus points when the main defense is "that has nothing to do with weight loss," as if weight loss is the only possible reason anyone on earth would stop consuming something. (see original post) Who gives a *kitten* if it has anything to do with weight loss?
On the other hand, people may be asking to make sure the OP hasn't been visited by the broscience fairy and is going to do something they'll regret as a result.
Just a thought.
They may be, but it's highly unlikely when it's all they ever contribute, and they never do anything except parrot, "no," "you're doing it wrong," or "that doesn't have any affect on your weight." With the aforementioned variations of hijacking any conversation about a scientific study to be solely weight related, even if it's actually about cholesterol, diabetes, heart disease, etc.0 -
What I find fascinating, at least according to the graph, is that those in the "Healthy" BMI range actually had larger mortality with 1 or 2 healthy habits than those with 0 healthy habits.
Yes, I found this interesting too.
Over-restrictive life styles?
Low BMI risks?
I'd only be guessing.
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »
You've made choices that work for you. I may be a little more strict about how frequently I have certain things, but it seems we may be trying to limit some of the same things....not that it matters really. Anybody can eat anything they like, I just don't think it is appropriate for people who do eat certain foods to try to talk people who want to give them up into still eating them. That happens every day on this site. There is more to health than weight.
Most people who tell general you to quit demonizing food are the IIFYM crowd. And the key word of that acronym is MACROS not calories. By definition, they care about what they are eating because they have chosen macro requirements to help meet their goals. So, some of them choose to make ice cream or doritos fit into their fat, carb, protein, calcium goals for the day. But, the only way for most people with restricted cals to do that is to also eat lean proteins and lots of fruits and veggies. Or to exercise. Or both. It's a cycleMoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
I'm of both the reduced carb (for PCOS/IR) and IIFYM mindset. If I can get pretty close to my percentages (I'm good with a +-5% range) and calories, I eat what I want "treat" wise. But, I have to eat plenty of "healthy" to achieve that on a daily basis.
At the end of the day its up to the individual to make the choice, but at least its good to hear that certain things people spout out are not true and not neccessary. Until i joined this site i always thought weight training makes you bulky, this is what i have heard and still hear.
When I told a friend of mine i wanted to lose weight she said all i had to do was stop eating bread, pasta and rice. These are some of the reasons people fail time and time again its because of misinformation. If i didnt join this site and lurk the forums I wouldnt have realised i just needed to watch what i ate and get off my sofa. i kept it simple. If i hadnt joined this site i would have done the usual starve myself for 2 weeks and then given up and still be large.
So whereas i am not keen on the force it down your throat approach some people have, i do appreciate the things i have learnt on this site.
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I hadn't noticed that...it is very interesting. The only thing I can think of is that those people are just genetically blessed...or very lucky. The fact that they can have no healthy habits and still be at a healthy weight might indicate that they just won the genetic lottery.What I find fascinating, at least according to the graph, is that those in the "Healthy" BMI range actually had larger mortality with 1 or 2 healthy habits than those with 0 healthy habits.
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Hooray! *applauds* logic and science... we need more of this here!
Second this. For me, being unhealthy and thin is only marginally better than being unhealthy and fat. What good is life when you have no energy and feel like crap? Of course when I was younger I got away with it, but now that I'm in my forties, my diet affects everything about my quality of life.0 -
Hooray! *applauds* logic and science... we need more of this here!
Second this. For me, being unhealthy and thin is only marginally better than being unhealthy and fat. What good is life when you have no energy and feel like crap? Of course when I was younger I got away with it, but now that I'm in my forties, my diet affects everything about my quality of life.
On top of that, if you look at the data, being fit and fat, is significantly better than unfit and thin.0 -
lthames0810 wrote: »But strength, endurance, mobility and balance can affect our health and safety at least as much. You can disable yourself from years of sedentary habits at any weight. So yes, I agree that exercise is important and not just as a way to burn more calories.
Couldn't agree more. These more subtle things get ignored sometimes, but they are so important for long-term health. Even around here more often than not the people who talk most about "health" just want to focus on food and not exercise.
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I'm not interested in hijacking this thread. I know how this plays out...I name two or three foods that are not good for you. You then demand studies to prove this. Then you find some imagined flaw in every study...like it was done on animals, or included self-reported data, or was released on a Tuesday, or was carried out by a scientist named Jim...as if any of that invalidates the results...it doesn't. Then your "junk food is healthy and MUST be eaten by everyone daily otherwise the world will come to an end" friends jump in and we have 200 posts which accomplish nothing. No thank you.
There is more than enough evidence to convince me and most educated people that what you eat matters as much as how much you eat in terms of long term health. We are never going to agree on this, so let's save 200 posts and just agree to disagree.
OMG THANK YOU SO MUCH.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Well, now, wait... you can still eat heathfully without eliminating treats. You just need to be moderate in their consumption.
Obviously, if you have a medical condition like celiac disease or a food allergy, you need to eliminate foods, but otherwise, there's no need to completely eliminate anything.
I'm one of those people with medical conditions. Nothing (except gluten because I DO have celiac) is eliminated from my diet. I very rarely consume certain things out of preference, but I still can have treats when I want them. On occasion. In proper portions. As a treat. That's what moderation means. And there's nothing unhealthy about that. In the context of an overall eating plan that still includes all the veggies I eat, a couple of cookies or a small dish of ice cream every now and then isn't unhealthy.
There is something unhealthy about it if someone has a family history of diabetes, heart disease and other issues, and they shouldn't be required to list that every time they ask something as simple as, what I can use to replace ice cream or how can I make popcorn with less salt. More to the point, the quantities of things that someone should have change as they age, and there's nothing wrong with someone deciding to limit it early instead of waiting until it's a harder habit to break when they're 40. Back to my original point, it's nobody else's business if they do want to eliminate those things, so posting just to argue with them about it instead of offering suggestions is attention seeking.0 -
beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
Well, one does wonder why someone else's favorite food or beverage is any of your business. I don't think Melville's (local restaurant) deep dish pizza is super healthy, but I really like it and so I choose to eat it on occasion. The idea that doing that somehow prevents me from being healthy is pretty absurd.
Beyond that, I actually think it's the people who insist that eating health means eliminating whatever their scapegoat food of choice is are the ones missing the big picture. So often you'd think health was all about whether you eat pasta or not (or "added sugar" or not) and not quantities or the rest of one's diet. Far more than the eliminationists, the moderates here argue that what's important is having an overall healthy diet that gets adequate nutrients and avoids excess calories. So often the eliminationists choose to ignore that, in favor of a made-up story about people wanting to eat Twinkies or donuts only.
Even more significantly, often the eliminationists seem to think that lower calorie is always better (one benefit often mentioned of eliminating "added sugar" is that it makes lower calories easier). But lower calorie may not be better, for example, if you become more active you may need more calories. One reason I started eating some ice cream after dinner from time to time after giving it up for a while was that I was doing lots of distance running and biking and always had excess calories.
Now, sure, I could eat cheese instead, or I dunno, sweet potatoes or whatever higher calorie food you think is not "unhealthy," but given my overall diet and health I see zero reason why eating some ice cream (or pizza) on occasion is going to make me an unhealthy person.
Care to respond?0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.
I actually mostly agree with this. I just call it moderation, and it's why I think the pro elimination for all posts are silly.
(I said mostly because just because something wouldn't be good for you in large amounts doesn't mean that you are doing harm by eating an occasional piece of homemade apple pie a la mode or the like. So I wouldn't say it was bad for me. I'd say eating it in excess would be.)
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mamapeach910 wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Well, now, wait... you can still eat heathfully without eliminating treats. You just need to be moderate in their consumption.
Obviously, if you have a medical condition like celiac disease or a food allergy, you need to eliminate foods, but otherwise, there's no need to completely eliminate anything.
I'm one of those people with medical conditions. Nothing (except gluten because I DO have celiac) is eliminated from my diet. I very rarely consume certain things out of preference, but I still can have treats when I want them. On occasion. In proper portions. As a treat. That's what moderation means. And there's nothing unhealthy about that. In the context of an overall eating plan that still includes all the veggies I eat, a couple of cookies or a small dish of ice cream every now and then isn't unhealthy.
There is something unhealthy about it if someone has a family history of diabetes, heart disease and other issues, and they shouldn't be required to list that every time they ask something as simple as, what I can use to replace ice cream or how can I make popcorn with less salt. More to the point, the quantities of things that someone should have change as they age, and there's nothing wrong with someone deciding to limit it early instead of waiting until it's a harder habit to break when they're 40. Back to my original point, it's nobody else's business if they do want to eliminate those things, so posting just to argue with them about it instead of offering suggestions is attention seeking.
There are never threads asking how to replace ice cream or make popcorn without salt.
It's always about sugar "addiction" and cutting carbs.
Neither of those would have anything to do with diabetes (balance intake with protein and fat) or heart disease (jury's still out on that whole thing, really).
It's not attention seeking. It's about trying to show people that they don't have to make a drastic change and possible set themselves up for failure because they think the only way to "diet" is to eliminate food groups.
When I advise people on the issue, it's because I want them to succeed in their efforts and avoid a common pitfall. It has nothing to do with wanting to argue with them.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Hooray! *applauds* logic and science... we need more of this here!
Second this. For me, being unhealthy and thin is only marginally better than being unhealthy and fat. What good is life when you have no energy and feel like crap? Of course when I was younger I got away with it, but now that I'm in my forties, my diet affects everything about my quality of life.
On top of that, if you look at the data, being fit and fat, is significantly better than unfit and thin.
Agreed. Though even better is being a healthy weight and fit. And I find it's easier to get up and move more when I'm not moving quite so much of me around!0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Well, now, wait... you can still eat heathfully without eliminating treats. You just need to be moderate in their consumption.
Obviously, if you have a medical condition like celiac disease or a food allergy, you need to eliminate foods, but otherwise, there's no need to completely eliminate anything.
I'm one of those people with medical conditions. Nothing (except gluten because I DO have celiac) is eliminated from my diet. I very rarely consume certain things out of preference, but I still can have treats when I want them. On occasion. In proper portions. As a treat. That's what moderation means. And there's nothing unhealthy about that. In the context of an overall eating plan that still includes all the veggies I eat, a couple of cookies or a small dish of ice cream every now and then isn't unhealthy.
There is something unhealthy about it if someone has a family history of diabetes, heart disease and other issues, and they shouldn't be required to list that every time they ask something as simple as, what I can use to replace ice cream or how can I make popcorn with less salt. More to the point, the quantities of things that someone should have change as they age, and there's nothing wrong with someone deciding to limit it early instead of waiting until it's a harder habit to break when they're 40. Back to my original point, it's nobody else's business if they do want to eliminate those things, so posting just to argue with them about it instead of offering suggestions is attention seeking.
There are never threads asking how to replace ice cream or make popcorn without salt.
It's always about sugar "addiction" and cutting carbs.
Neither of those would have anything to do with diabetes (balance intake with protein and fat) or heart disease (jury's still out on that whole thing, really).
It's not attention seeking. It's about trying to show people that they don't have to make a drastic change and possible set themselves up for failure because they think the only way to "diet" is to eliminate food groups.
When I advise people on the issue, it's because I want them to succeed in their efforts and avoid a common pitfall. It has nothing to do with wanting to argue with them.
Here's a good example. Someone craving salt, thinks they had too much over the weekend, wants to cut back a little, and before the 1st page is done, being told not to do it unless it's doctors orders.0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
You've made choices that work for you. I may be a little more strict about how frequently I have certain things, but it seems we may be trying to limit some of the same things....not that it matters really. Anybody can eat anything they like, I just don't think it is appropriate for people who do eat certain foods to try to talk people who want to give them up into still eating them. That happens every day on this site. There is more to health than weight.
Most people who tell general you to quit demonizing food are the IIFYM crowd. And the key word of that acronym is MACROS not calories. By definition, they care about what they are eating because they have chosen macro requirements to help meet their goals. So, some of them choose to make ice cream or doritos fit into their fat, carb, protein, calcium goals for the day. But, the only way for most people with restricted cals to do that is to also eat lean proteins and lots of fruits and veggies. Or to exercise. Or both. It's a cycleMoiAussi93 wrote: »
There is a difference between "exclude" and "limit". There are certain things that are simply not a part of my everyday diet because I know they just aren't good for me. But every once in a great while (like once a month) I will have them, and frankly enjoy them much more when had infrequently.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I wish we has a "like" button, because I agree 100% with this. Some people just refuse to see what is glaringly obvious.beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Like, that, unless you have a diagnosed medical reason for excluding a particular nutrient or food group, doing so is completely unnecessary?
I'm of both the reduced carb (for PCOS/IR) and IIFYM mindset. If I can get pretty close to my percentages (I'm good with a +-5% range) and calories, I eat what I want "treat" wise. But, I have to eat plenty of "healthy" to achieve that on a daily basis.
At the end of the day its up to the individual to make the choice, but at least its good to hear that certain things people spout out are not true and not neccessary. Until i joined this site i always thought weight training makes you bulky, this is what i have heard and still hear.
When I told a friend of mine i wanted to lose weight she said all i had to do was stop eating bread, pasta and rice. These are some of the reasons people fail time and time again its because of misinformation. If i didnt join this site and lurk the forums I wouldnt have realised i just needed to watch what i ate and get off my sofa. i kept it simple. If i hadnt joined this site i would have done the usual starve myself for 2 weeks and then given up and still be large.
So whereas i am not keen on the force it down your throat approach some people have, i do appreciate the things i have learnt on this site.
Excellent feedback.
What your friend did was simplify a reasonable position and make it overly restrictive. Those food are high in calorie per weight and satiety levels. It is very easy to overeat when they are a large part of your diet. So for some, it is sufficient to restrict bread, pasta and rice. But it is also pretty difficult to eliminate it permanently from a diet - so one yo-yos.
It's much more effective to eliminate elimination and stick to something that can work long term.
And this is why I often will speak out in the "I stopped eat x now what" threads. It is perfectly fine to decide not to eat pasta or something else. But given that it takes effort, it is more effective to concentrate that effort on things that pay of long-term. Strategies for success are those that you can integrate into your life in ways that they become absolutely habits and which the environment around you has a hard time negatively influencing.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »Motivation to lose weight varies immensely but health seems to be an important driver. "I want to get healthy" or "I want to live to see my grandchildren" or "I want to get of these medications/fear getting sicker." or "I want to be able to do things!"....
Excellent post. It is very frustrating when I read other threads on here when a poster is thrashed for daring to state that someone's favorite food/beverage isn't healthy. Healthy nutrition and eating goes far beyond only counting calories.
I get that frustration with the "how dare you eliminate anything at all from your diet if you like how it tastes" rants. Then the caveat is made that they only mean "normal" people, not anyone with a medical issue. There seems to be a huge disconnect with eliminating those things so someone doesn't get the medical issue in the first place.
Well, now, wait... you can still eat heathfully without eliminating treats. You just need to be moderate in their consumption.
Obviously, if you have a medical condition like celiac disease or a food allergy, you need to eliminate foods, but otherwise, there's no need to completely eliminate anything.
I'm one of those people with medical conditions. Nothing (except gluten because I DO have celiac) is eliminated from my diet. I very rarely consume certain things out of preference, but I still can have treats when I want them. On occasion. In proper portions. As a treat. That's what moderation means. And there's nothing unhealthy about that. In the context of an overall eating plan that still includes all the veggies I eat, a couple of cookies or a small dish of ice cream every now and then isn't unhealthy.
There is something unhealthy about it if someone has a family history of diabetes, heart disease and other issues, and they shouldn't be required to list that every time they ask something as simple as, what I can use to replace ice cream or how can I make popcorn with less salt. More to the point, the quantities of things that someone should have change as they age, and there's nothing wrong with someone deciding to limit it early instead of waiting until it's a harder habit to break when they're 40. Back to my original point, it's nobody else's business if they do want to eliminate those things, so posting just to argue with them about it instead of offering suggestions is attention seeking.
Look at Therealobi1's post for why people ask for reasons and explain it's not necessary.
I don't know why that's considered such an affront by some.
As I always say in those threads, I've given up foods for a time (gave up added sugar in January even) and I've cut way down on my consumption of others, so I'm not saying it's always a bad idea--it can be a good idea for a particular person if she knows why she's doing it. However, if it's because you've bought into some silly idea like that bread is a fat pill that makes you gain regardless of calories, better to be disabused of that, just as people should be disabused of the idea that a cleanse is a great idea. Why? Because it's not true, and stating facts and correcting false information is not mean or wrong even if it occasionally embarrasses someone or rubs them the wrong way.
Also, I've never gotten any flack (or much, nothing I found bothersome) for giving up stuff or reducing my consumption of anything, perhaps because I've never posted about how everyone else needs to do it, how people who don't do it are disgusting, how whatever it is is the devil, or stressing about how HARD it is to give it up. If you think that those are the kinds of threads that give rise to the posts you are talking about, it's hardly surprising.0
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