Gaining Muscle vs Burning Fat Question

jaggerjia

Is it accurate that your body (any human body) will EITHER burn fat OR build muscle (bulk) but not both at the same time. That weight lifting, while eating at a calorie deficit, will help to retain muscle that that specific body already has while burning fat, but it's (your body) not going to burn fat and add (new) muscle at the same time. Is that correct? (if relevant, i am asking as a woman)

adiamond100

That is interesting I would like to know the answer to that as well.

jemhh

I'm just going to go ahead and quote Lyle McDonald on this:

"There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in overfat beginners. I want to really stress the term overfat in the above sentence...A second situation where this phenomenon occurs readily is folks returning from a layoff. Folks who are previously lean and muscular but who get out of shape (whether deliberately or not) often find that they get back into shape much faster than they did initially: they seem to magically replace fat with muscle." - SOURCE

So yes, it can happen, but in specific circumstances (which I think often apply to MFPers.) Also, keep in mind that "overfat" is not defined in what he wrote above. I have never seen it defined so I don't know if it means obese, overweight, above a certain bodyfat percentage, etc.

zinnel

I do not know this answer in scientific facts but can talk from personal experience. I am a big guy (300+). I have been doing crossfit for months because I love lifting weights, building muscle, and pushing myself to the limits. I have noticed through this that my weight will stay exactly the same and maybe increase, but during this time my stomach starts shrinking and my muscles are growing. So I would say that both of these can occur at the same time. I hope this helps

sijomial

It's a generalisation not a rule - there isn't a switch that gets thrown just because you are a little above or below maintenance.

There are lot's of factors which determines an individual's ability to add muscle and burn fat at the same time.

Their training.
Body fat percentage.
Their diet.
Size of deficit (or surplus)
Training history.
Training status (e.g. currently below a previous training peak)
A novel training stimulus.
Age (affects speed more than anything)
Genetics.
Use (or misuse) of drugs.
Gender (has a big impact on speed of possible growth.)
Eating pattern.

jaggerjia

That makes sense, thanks all.

AllanMisner

As others have noted above, yes you can. It is relatively easy when you’re a newbie with a good bit of fat to lose. As your fitness improves, it gets harder to do both at the same time. Also, when you’re doing this, you’re not optimizing either one. I personally don’t think that’s an issue, but so many people get discouraged by not losing weight. The scale is a terrible measure when taken alone.

To do this well, you’ll eat at a slight deficit, ensure you’re getting plenty of protein and sleep. Lift very heavy focusing on strength (3 - 6 reps) or muscle mass (7 - 10 reps).

Enjoy!

jaggerjia

whats your opinion on following the 5X5 strong lifts program, only with 3X10 (with cardio on the rest days). Thats what i've been doing for about 3 weeks. I enjoy it, but am a total novice and have a lot to learn. I appreciate any opinions/advice

HeySwoleSister

I'm so glad you asked this, I have been trying to wrap my head around this for a while. I keep trying to convince my body that it should just use my fat stores to fuel some muscle building.

My body isn't know for its listening skills, though. ~pouts~ ~deducts 5 points from body for failure to follow directions~

deksgrl

jemhh wrote: »

I'm just going to go ahead and quote Lyle McDonald on this:

"There are a handful of situations where the combination of muscle gain and fat loss occur relatively readily. The first of those is in overfat beginners. I want to really stress the term overfat in the above sentence...A second situation where this phenomenon occurs readily is folks returning from a layoff. Folks who are previously lean and muscular but who get out of shape (whether deliberately or not) often find that they get back into shape much faster than they did initially: they seem to magically replace fat with muscle." - SOURCE

So yes, it can happen, but in specific circumstances (which I think often apply to MFPers.) Also, keep in mind that "overfat" is not defined in what he wrote above. I have never seen it defined so I don't know if it means obese, overweight, above a certain bodyfat percentage, etc.

^^This.

And also note that women will only put on an average of .5 - 1.5 pounds of muscle PER MONTH in women who are deliberately trying to build it through training and diet. So keep that in mind.

hill8570

jaggerjia wrote: »

whats your opinion on following the 5X5 strong lifts program, only with 3X10 (with cardio on the rest days). Thats what i've been doing for about 3 weeks. I enjoy it, but am a total novice and have a lot to learn. I appreciate any opinions/advice

Remember, the mantra of SL is "more weight equals more strength". It's just a fact of life that your 10RM is going to be significantly less than your 5RM, so the weights you're going to be lifting are always going to be smaller (i.e. you have "less strength"). And I cringe at the thought of doing 5lb increments (or even 2.5lb increments) at working weight and 10 reps...I suppose you could pull it off using microplates.

If you're more interested in muscular endurance (which is what a 10RM workout gets you) than strength, then go find a program at bodybuilding.com that focuses on that aspect. Trying to modify an existing program into something it's not meant to be is just going to get you in trouble.

jemhh

hill8570 wrote: »

jaggerjia wrote: »

whats your opinion on following the 5X5 strong lifts program, only with 3X10 (with cardio on the rest days). Thats what i've been doing for about 3 weeks. I enjoy it, but am a total novice and have a lot to learn. I appreciate any opinions/advice

Remember, the mantra of SL is "more weight equals more strength". It's just a fact of life that your 10RM is going to be significantly less than your 5RM, so the weights you're going to be lifting are always going to be smaller (i.e. you have "less strength"). And I cringe at the thought of doing 5lb increments (or even 2.5lb increments) at working weight and 10 reps...I suppose you could pull it off using microplates.

If you're more interested in muscular endurance (which is what a 10RM workout gets you) than strength, then go find a program at bodybuilding.com that focuses on that aspect. Trying to modify an existing program into something it's not meant to be is just going to get you in trouble.

Agreed. If you like the slightly higher reps, you might like All Pro's Simple Beginner Routine, which has you move through 8-12 reps during 5 week cycles.

Springfield1970

EWJLang wrote: »

I'm so glad you asked this, I have been trying to wrap my head around this for a while. I keep trying to convince my body that it should just use my fat stores to fuel some muscle building.

My body isn't know for its listening skills, though. ~pouts~ ~deducts 5 points from body for failure to follow directions~

Life would be so nice if it did that! I'm sure my body gobbles up muscle before fat first if I'm at a deficit. That's why my cuts tend to go on for half a year, I try and fool my body I'm in maintenance and cut 50 cals off a day.

alasin1derland

Someone had posted this and I found it helpful.

http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/

RGv2

zinnel wrote: »

I do not know this answer in scientific facts but can talk from personal experience. I am a big guy (300+). I have been doing crossfit for months because I love lifting weights, building muscle, and pushing myself to the limits. I have noticed through this that my weight will stay exactly the same and maybe increase, but during this time my stomach starts shrinking and my muscles are growing. So I would say that both of these can occur at the same time. I hope this helps

Of course you can. Per the information provided, you fall into one of the outlier groups.

The reason your weight is staying the same or increasing is not due to muscle gain though. It's water retention. It is extremely difficult to gain enough muscle to stall out the scale at a surplus, let alone a deficit.

EvgeniZyntx

As has been stated - its a generalization/simplification that makes a lot of sense.
The reality is that protein turnover is going on constantly as is fat/protein utilization.

It's a question of balancing needs. In a calorie deficit the body breaks down fat and lbm as substrate to other needed metabolic processes. It is therefore much harder to build muscle because the signaling is principally to feed those processes but it does occur, especially if the deficit is small and the signaling for hypertrophy strong (large muscle workouts with heavier weights ...).

It isn't an all or nothing process. However, if your objectives are to build muscle, it is often sub optimal to do it with even a small deficit - one just isn't providing protein substrate when the signaling is the strongest unless you workout every day - and mentally it is very hard to doubt slow change as one "spins their wheels". This is why cut/bulk methods are more popular but it is possible to "culk" and combine the cutting and bulking aspects of both.

And it's easier when there is a lot of fat available - hence the newbie gains.

AllanMisner

jaggerjia wrote: »

whats your opinion on following the 5X5 strong lifts program, only with 3X10 (with cardio on the rest days). Thats what i've been doing for about 3 weeks. I enjoy it, but am a total novice and have a lot to learn. I appreciate any opinions/advice

The five rep scheme is more geared toward muscular strength. The ten rep scheme is more for muscular mass. So, either is fine as long as it aligns with your goals. I always opt for strength over mass, but again, that’s me.

I’d advise you to take time off and not do cardio every day you’re not lifting. The real muscle building happens during your rest time. Make sure you’re giving your body a chance to restore and recover. Good sleep and taking an off day are both important aspects to optimal results.

jaggerjia

Can't thank you all enough for your input. I've tried to reasearch and feel that I have found some good and some wrong and some conflicting information. It's great to get feedback from those of you who have firsthand experience/knowledge. Another reason to love this app.

AllanMisner

There will always be conflicting information for a few reasons:

Firstly, we’re all different and react to stimuli differently. The studies that are done are usually done with a specific demographic (college student, trained athlete, untrained aged), and might not translate into your demographic.

Some people read the headlines from fitness magazines and don’t ever dive into the meat of the studies.

And finally, most of the folks on this site (and who write blog posts) don’t have experience training others, which is where the rubber hits the road as far as advice goes.