Stronglifts squat not progressing. Please help!

rmhand

You mentioned struggling when you are just above parallel. Doesn't SL recommend ATG squats?

lilawolf

So if I understand correctly, you are eating at a deficit and not seeing your squat numbers go up? This is generally expected. If new to lifting you will generally see lifts go up as your muscles/mind become more efficient at them, but at some point this will stall and you will only gain strength as you gain muscle which will not happen on a cut.

this^^^

"efficiency"= neural adaption

furthermore, I'd wager that you're doing a lot of cardio which is impeding your recovery and causing more catabolism than MPS in your legs... weight training destroys muscle... if you dont allow the anabolic stimulus to cause MPS, lifting can be counterproductive... its quite simple... if the anabolic stimulus of training doesnt outweigh the catabolic response, than youll get weaker...

Nope, no cardio except walking a lot and the Very occasional leisurely swim, dance, hike, or bike ride. As for the deficit, yes I understand this, but wouldn't ALL of my lifts stall? Squats are the only one. I would expect to be proportional.

astronomicals

There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

yeah there is... too much cardio.... no leg recovery

Cardio doesn't pose much of a neurological demand on the body. The lack of recovery due to excessive cardiovascular exercise is systemic so her other lifts would suffer proportionally. So again, there's no reason that her squat should be the same as her bench.

Sounds like you're talking about taxation of the CNS, I'm not. Long steady state cardio could easily have an effect on your lower body lifts while not affecting upper (obviously intensity would factor in). If not, I'd like to see where it says otherwise. I really dont see how you are trying to argue with my presumption that additional lower body exercise could be hindering her recovery.

Loftearmen

why would u put plates under your heels? Who gave you that idea?

do not put plates under your heels... you should be driving through your heels, not the ball of your foot... if your driving through the ball of your foot the bar path is probably "forward" and thats why your lift is failing.. your dont wear running shoes BECAUSE they have elevated cushioned heels...make him take a side on video and look at the actual bar path..

You should really just stop giving out advice on squatting, dude. You really don't know what you're talking about. Weightlifting shoes have hard, elevated heels. The best way to mimic this is by either putting some hard, 1-1.5'' heel inserts in your shoes or by putting your heels on some 10lb plates, a 2x4, etc.. This will reduce posterior pelvic tilting in the hole, help you maintain a more upright torso while you are squatting and enable you to use a more narrow stance and still hit competition depth. I squat with 1.25'' heel inserts in my chucks.

lilawolf

so now we have to have shoes just for lifting?

I have absolutely zero problems squatting in my running shoes and using my heels to drive.

Lifting shoes and putting heels on plates are for people who may lack flexibility in the ankles. You still drive through the heels coming up, but it reduces the range of motion required by the ankle at the bottom of the lift.

I don't think this is my problem then. I can sit back on my heels quite comfortably.
Me: http://www.hemorrhoidinformationcenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/h2squatting1.jpg
Hubby (he uses 5lb plates under his heels): http://s247.photobucket.com/user/MDA2008/media/MDA2009/squat.jpg.html

Loftearmen

There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

yeah there is... too much cardio.... no leg recovery

Cardio doesn't pose much of a neurological demand on the body. The lack of recovery due to excessive cardiovascular exercise is systemic so her other lifts would suffer proportionally. So again, there's no reason that her squat should be the same as her bench.

Sounds like you're talking about taxation of the CNS, I'm not. Long steady state cardio could easily have an effect on your lower body lifts while not affecting upper (obviously intensity would factor in). If not, I'd like to see where it says otherwise. I really dont see how you are trying to argue with my presumption that additional lower body exercise could be hindering her recovery.

I'm not going to get into this with you. You really need to get yourself some education before you go blabbing your ignorance in front of everybody. Especially when people might be counting on your advice to fix a problem that they have.

You should be in here to help people with their problems, not puff up your ego and act like you know everything. Since I'm sure you will want to continue arguing with me after this post, we'll just go ahead and settle it. What's your best squat to comp depth?

jackflak

bump or squat to follow

Loftearmen

So if I understand correctly, you are eating at a deficit and not seeing your squat numbers go up? This is generally expected. If new to lifting you will generally see lifts go up as your muscles/mind become more efficient at them, but at some point this will stall and you will only gain strength as you gain muscle which will not happen on a cut.

this^^^

"efficiency"= neural adaption

furthermore, I'd wager that you're doing a lot of cardio which is impeding your recovery and causing more catabolism than MPS in your legs... weight training destroys muscle... if you dont allow the anabolic stimulus to cause MPS, lifting can be counterproductive... its quite simple... if the anabolic stimulus of training doesnt outweigh the catabolic response, than youll get weaker...

Nope, no cardio except walking a lot and the Very occasional leisurely swim, dance, hike, or bike ride. As for the deficit, yes I understand this, but wouldn't ALL of my lifts stall? Squats are the only one. I would expect to be proportional.

Yes, all of your lifts would stall and it would all be proportional. There is a problem that is specific to your squat that is hindering you. Walking would not cause this.

a_vettestingray

bumping -interesting read

mdizzle99

As for the deficit, yes I understand this, but wouldn't ALL of my lifts stall? Squats are the only one. I would expect to be proportional.

You are getting all kinds of different advice here so, if I were you, I'd be more confused than ever. That said, you wouldn't necessarily stall at the same time on everything. In fact, that would be surprising if you did.

1. Having great form on squats is essential. Do whatever necessary to ensure you have it.
2. You should make sure all of your goals are in line. Gaining strength/muscle and lowering body fat simultaneously is not a sustainable, long-term goal.

astronomicals

There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

yeah there is... too much cardio.... no leg recovery

Cardio doesn't pose much of a neurological demand on the body. The lack of recovery due to excessive cardiovascular exercise is systemic so her other lifts would suffer proportionally. So again, there's no reason that her squat should be the same as her bench.

Sounds like you're talking about taxation of the CNS, I'm not. Long steady state cardio could easily have an effect on your lower body lifts while not affecting upper (obviously intensity would factor in). If not, I'd like to see where it says otherwise. I really dont see how you are trying to argue with my presumption that additional lower body exercise could be hindering her recovery.

I'm not going to get into this with you. You really need to get yourself some education before you go blabbing your ignorance in front of everybody. Especially when people might be counting on your advice to fix a problem that they have.

You should be in here to help people with their problems, not puff up your ego and act like you know everything. Since I'm sure you will want to continue arguing with me after this post, we'll just go ahead and settle it. What's your best squat to comp depth?

lol... way to turn this into a pissing match. I went and did some reading on using plates since I wasnt familiar with it. I guess it can have its benefits for narrow stance squatting, but, I think most here are training wider stance where it probably wouldnt be so wise to stand on plates (shoes are a diff story). From what I gathered its a way to squat deeper when you have crappy ROM. Why not just work on your ROM if you're a novice lifter?

lilawolf

You are getting all kinds of different advice here so, if I were you, I'd be more confused than ever. That said, you wouldn't necessarily stall at the same time on everything. In fact, that would be surprising if you did.

1. Having great form on squats is essential. Do whatever necessary to ensure you have it.
2. You should make sure all of your goals are in line. Gaining strength/muscle and lowering body fat simultaneously is not a sustainable, long-term goal.

Well, its a bit confusing, but I expected that. Different things work for different people, particularly with different amounts of flexibility and height distributions. This gave me a lot of ideas for things to try.

As for number 2, I plan on doing bulk/cut cycles starting at the end of summer for this. I'm hoping that my beginner gains will get me through until then. So far they are, except on squats, which is why I think that there is a problem with what I'm doing.

joe2626

I'll be honest, I haven't read all of the posts on here AND, without elaborating moreso than to simply say that, i'd also imagine something's up with your form. I can, however, offer you a recent development in my squat that has made my last couple of lifts easier. When I was coming down into the squat, my weighting was off and I wasn't in a position that allowed me to drive the weight up through the heel and outside of my feet, which is where you'll find alot of the driving force comes from. So maybe try sinking into the squat aware that the weight should be carried and driven through the heel throughout the rep?

Loftearmen

There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

yeah there is... too much cardio.... no leg recovery

Cardio doesn't pose much of a neurological demand on the body. The lack of recovery due to excessive cardiovascular exercise is systemic so her other lifts would suffer proportionally. So again, there's no reason that her squat should be the same as her bench.

Sounds like you're talking about taxation of the CNS, I'm not. Long steady state cardio could easily have an effect on your lower body lifts while not affecting upper (obviously intensity would factor in). If not, I'd like to see where it says otherwise. I really dont see how you are trying to argue with my presumption that additional lower body exercise could be hindering her recovery.

I'm not going to get into this with you. You really need to get yourself some education before you go blabbing your ignorance in front of everybody. Especially when people might be counting on your advice to fix a problem that they have.

You should be in here to help people with their problems, not puff up your ego and act like you know everything. Since I'm sure you will want to continue arguing with me after this post, we'll just go ahead and settle it. What's your best squat to comp depth?

lol... way to turn this into a pissing match. I went and did some reading on using plates since I wasnt familiar with it. I guess it can have its benefits for narrow stance squatting, but, I think most here are training wider stance where it probably wouldnt be so wise to stand on plates (shoes are a diff story). From what I gathered its a way to squat deeper when you have crappy ROM. Why not just work on your ROM if you're a novice lifter?

Because it improves on your anthropometry. Stretching and mobility drills are important to help you hit depth and improve your form but they do not change the dynamic of your squat like wearing elevated heels does. By elevating the heels you can keep your knees under your body without having to lean so far forward and you can also incorporate more quad into the squat regardless of your stance. You can stretch all you want but it won't do that for your squat. Even a lot of wide stance squatters use raised heels. The only time you really shouldn't wear raised heels while squatting is if you have a long torso, short legs, are posterior chain dominant, sit back really, really far into your squat and are using multiply gear. Almost everyone who doesn't fit into that category (99.5% of the population) would benefit in some way from using a raised heel during the squat. Also, most people on here are not using a wide stance for their squat. It may not be super close but you will rarely see people who aren't competitive powerlifters using a stance that is actually wide.

RFTA

Good afternoon, lilawolf!

I definitely agree with mdizzle99: too many cooks spoil the broth. Everyone, in response to your plight, has their own ways/methods/solutions. However, since none of us are around you to physically witness you squat (with the ability to walk around you, to see what you're doing correctly/incorrectly at the various states of the squat), all this info is really a moot point (with the exception of the shoes--you'd be positively surprised at how lifting in flat shoes/zero-drop shoes, like a pair of OLY, Chucks, Vibrams, etc, would do for your squat/deadlift game).

My personal suggestion? Try doing a single session with a personal trainer. NOT JUST ANY personal trainer, either. I'd suggest one that has a tried-and-true background in teaching CORRECT form/mechanics when it comes to techniques. Take the time to "shop around"--watch what they do with their clients (or, if you're unable to do that, talk to their clients for feedback). This will give you an idea of not only who would be best to help you out, but who would be able to TEACH you most effectively. While it may be a little pricey, a single session with a personal trainer can really make all the difference--especially when it comes to things like this.

Again, I can't stress the shopping around part. As much as I don't want to say this, it's almost too easy to become a personal trainer these days (do a weekend seminar, pass a test, and *BAM* you're a personal trainer). However, for those individuals who go the extra distance with their craft, you'll find yourself walking away with a skill set of effective tips, tricks, and techniques for taking your squats to the next level (i.e. Exercise Science/Biomechanics/Physical Therapy/Occupational Therapy degree, Sports Conditioning/Strength Training Coach for a local university who also does personal training on the side, etc).

Just my two cents.

astronomicals

Because it improves on your anthropometry. Stretching and mobility drills are important to help you hit depth and improve your form but they do not change the dynamic of your squat like wearing elevated heels does. By elevating the heels you can keep your knees under your body without having to lean so far forward and you can also incorporate more quad into the squat regardless of your stance. You can stretch all you want but it won't do that for your squat. Even a lot of wide stance squatters use raised heels. The only time you really shouldn't wear raised heels while squatting is if you have a long torso, short legs, are posterior chain dominant, sit back really, really far into your squat and are using multiply gear. Almost everyone who doesn't fit into that category (99.5% of the population) would benefit in some way from using a raised heel during the squat. Also, most people on here are not using a wide stance for their squat. It may not be super close but you will rarely see people who aren't competitive powerlifters using a stance that is actually wide.

interesting stuff... Would you suggest those shoes, or raised heel lifting, to someone with zero aspirations of doing any type of competitive lifting?

I like the idea of having an altered form/stance that allows me to lift more, but, I also have zero desire of losing the mobility I currently have. Perhaps I could alternate between oly lifting shoes and chucks.

rick_po

Take a lighter load and practice "exploding" out of the squat. Once you get use to the actual "sequence" of doing it, then load up again.

I second this. I try to think "bounce and explode" out of the bottom. It also takes a lot of pressure off my knees.

da_bears10089

There is absolutely no reason other than poor technique that you would squat the same as you bench unless you have some sort of health issue that is preventing it. Take a video of you squatting and pm me the link, I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

yeah there is... too much cardio.... no leg recovery

Cardio doesn't pose much of a neurological demand on the body. The lack of recovery due to excessive cardiovascular exercise is systemic so her other lifts would suffer proportionally. So again, there's no reason that her squat should be the same as her bench.

Sounds like you're talking about taxation of the CNS, I'm not. Long steady state cardio could easily have an effect on your lower body lifts while not affecting upper (obviously intensity would factor in). If not, I'd like to see where it says otherwise. I really dont see how you are trying to argue with my presumption that additional lower body exercise could be hindering her recovery.

I'm not going to get into this with you. You really need to get yourself some education before you go blabbing your ignorance in front of everybody. Especially when people might be counting on your advice to fix a problem that they have.

You should be in here to help people with their problems, not puff up your ego and act like you know everything. Since I'm sure you will want to continue arguing with me after this post, we'll just go ahead and settle it. What's your best squat to comp depth?

lol... way to turn this into a pissing match. I went and did some reading on using plates since I wasnt familiar with it. I guess it can have its benefits for narrow stance squatting, but, I think most here are training wider stance where it probably wouldnt be so wise to stand on plates (shoes are a diff story). From what I gathered its a way to squat deeper when you have crappy ROM. Why not just work on your ROM if you're a novice lifter?

Because it improves on your anthropometry. Stretching and mobility drills are important to help you hit depth and improve your form but they do not change the dynamic of your squat like wearing elevated heels does. By elevating the heels you can keep your knees under your body without having to lean so far forward and you can also incorporate more quad into the squat regardless of your stance. You can stretch all you want but it won't do that for your squat. Even a lot of wide stance squatters use raised heels. The only time you really shouldn't wear raised heels while squatting is if you have a long torso, short legs, are posterior chain dominant, sit back really, really far into your squat and are using multiply gear. Almost everyone who doesn't fit into that category (99.5% of the population) would benefit in some way from using a raised heel during the squat. Also, most people on here are not using a wide stance for their squat. It may not be super close but you will rarely see people who aren't competitive powerlifters using a stance that is actually wide.

so what you're saying is that all those girls out there on gym hotties lifting in stripper shoes might be onto something??

i jest, i jest..

murphy612

You already have a ton of advice, but I just wanted to post that you and I are very similar with our squatting issues! I'm an inch shorter and 10lbs heavier though. We lift about the same weight, my bench might be a little higher but squats/deadlifts are the same. My knees want to go in all the time too. Part of it is a height (limb length) issue. I've had to widen my stance a bit as well as point my toes out just a tad. My flexibility is also an issue, so I'm working on that as well. I work with a trainer so my form is good, I just can't seem to get deeper in the squat. So we keep the weight the same and keep working on form for now.

Good luck!! Hope you find the issue.

Loftearmen

Because it improves on your anthropometry. Stretching and mobility drills are important to help you hit depth and improve your form but they do not change the dynamic of your squat like wearing elevated heels does. By elevating the heels you can keep your knees under your body without having to lean so far forward and you can also incorporate more quad into the squat regardless of your stance. You can stretch all you want but it won't do that for your squat. Even a lot of wide stance squatters use raised heels. The only time you really shouldn't wear raised heels while squatting is if you have a long torso, short legs, are posterior chain dominant, sit back really, really far into your squat and are using multiply gear. Almost everyone who doesn't fit into that category (99.5% of the population) would benefit in some way from using a raised heel during the squat. Also, most people on here are not using a wide stance for their squat. It may not be super close but you will rarely see people who aren't competitive powerlifters using a stance that is actually wide.

interesting stuff... Would you suggest those shoes, or raised heel lifting, to someone with zero aspirations of doing any type of competitive lifting?

I like the idea of having an altered form/stance that allows me to lift more, but, I also have zero desire of losing the mobility I currently have. Perhaps I could alternate between oly lifting shoes and chucks.

You should try it. I wouldn't bother swapping between the two though, that's just asinine. Pick the one that works best and stick with it.

mdizzle99

You are getting all kinds of different advice here so, if I were you, I'd be more confused than ever. That said, you wouldn't necessarily stall at the same time on everything. In fact, that would be surprising if you did.

1. Having great form on squats is essential. Do whatever necessary to ensure you have it.
2. You should make sure all of your goals are in line. Gaining strength/muscle and lowering body fat simultaneously is not a sustainable, long-term goal.

Well, its a bit confusing, but I expected that. Different things work for different people, particularly with different amounts of flexibility and height distributions. This gave me a lot of ideas for things to try.

As for number 2, I plan on doing bulk/cut cycles starting at the end of summer for this. I'm hoping that my beginner gains will get me through until then. So far they are, except on squats, which is why I think that there is a problem with what I'm doing.

Sounds like know what you are doing pretty well; gotta love beginner gains. I'm sure you'll figure how to get through this plateau. There is some good advice in this thread. I also just want to point out that you're currently cutting already.

lilawolf

Sounds like know what you are doing pretty well; gotta love beginner gains. I'm sure you'll figure how to get through this plateau. There is some good advice in this thread. I also just want to point out that you're currently cutting already.

Lol. Yes I am cutting (kind of. It's mostly just maintenance), but I am pretty sure a 5 year bulk, and 1 year cut isn't the normal cycle time that people go for I'm thinking more like 12weeks/12weeks...

julialdr

bump

lilawolf

Focusing on the hip drive by pushing through my heels really helped. I also widened my stance a touch more. I tried it with 5lb plates under my heels and couldn't really feel a difference, so I quit. Hopefully this breaks my stall. If not, I will check out the other ideas. Thanks guys!