Switching from Weight loss to Muscle gain and Fat loss. Help.
abhisheksengupta
Posts: 28 Member
Hello everyone,
About me: 5'10, 21, currently weighing 163 pounds.
When I started with weight loss last year I had a tire-ish belly (with significant love handles and back fat) as well as manboobs. My waist was 40-42 inches with loads of thigh fat as well. I was never into sports, so wasn't high on muscle mass too.
I lost about 51 pounds during my weight loss journey, It was a speedy one (3-4 months) which mostly involved heavy volume cardio, a 1500 calorie diet and bit of strength training.
I quit gym for two months before exams and holidays, but maintained my diet and kept losing.
My waist has dropped down to 32 inches. I have decent biceps, thighs, chest muscles (with a bit of fat). I look and feel like a whole new person.
Now for the grim part. Although dropped a lot I still continue to hold a lot of belly fat. It's not visible in any clothing but when I take my shirt off there's still that significant tire of love handle that is grabbable in my fist, its wobbly and it seems i have no muscle there. It sort of sticks out with a under belly lining over my decently toned waist. I have come to accept that the weight loss process I was onto has made me a little skinny fat.
As I was losing a lot of size so I stopped cardio and bumped up to 2000 calories odd.
So I have was driven nuts when trying to figure out whether to bulk or cut. Each website/person gave me a different opinion.
So I am shouting out here to anyone with expertise and/or experience of where I am:
1. I have been strength training 4 days a week for the past month based on SL 5x5 for a month on a slight cut below my maintenance (2700 calories). I also do a few weighted crunches, and noticed that I've pushed the belly fat farther out a little. I do squats, lifts, benchpresses and other SL exercises and I am getting stronger progressively. But my weight on the scale remains the same? Am I really putting on muscle and losing fat simultaneously or have I been eating more?
2. Is where you lose fat from really genetics? Is it all visceral fat?
3. I have stopped cardio absolutely except 3 miles of walking a day (to and back from gym). Since i have burnt a lot of fat in the past doing it should I resort to HIIT or even high intensity cycling for 20 minutes thrice a week? Try to eat back that much?
Note: I was losing a huge amount of belly fat while doing cardio in the gym and that seemed to stop when I quit hence that thought.
4. How long does it usually take to build abdominal muscles? I have been doing reverse crunches, side dumbells, twisters and cable/weighted crunches. As you might guess patience is a little issue for me since I have been used to quick results.
About me: 5'10, 21, currently weighing 163 pounds.
When I started with weight loss last year I had a tire-ish belly (with significant love handles and back fat) as well as manboobs. My waist was 40-42 inches with loads of thigh fat as well. I was never into sports, so wasn't high on muscle mass too.
I lost about 51 pounds during my weight loss journey, It was a speedy one (3-4 months) which mostly involved heavy volume cardio, a 1500 calorie diet and bit of strength training.
I quit gym for two months before exams and holidays, but maintained my diet and kept losing.
My waist has dropped down to 32 inches. I have decent biceps, thighs, chest muscles (with a bit of fat). I look and feel like a whole new person.
Now for the grim part. Although dropped a lot I still continue to hold a lot of belly fat. It's not visible in any clothing but when I take my shirt off there's still that significant tire of love handle that is grabbable in my fist, its wobbly and it seems i have no muscle there. It sort of sticks out with a under belly lining over my decently toned waist. I have come to accept that the weight loss process I was onto has made me a little skinny fat.
As I was losing a lot of size so I stopped cardio and bumped up to 2000 calories odd.
So I have was driven nuts when trying to figure out whether to bulk or cut. Each website/person gave me a different opinion.
So I am shouting out here to anyone with expertise and/or experience of where I am:
1. I have been strength training 4 days a week for the past month based on SL 5x5 for a month on a slight cut below my maintenance (2700 calories). I also do a few weighted crunches, and noticed that I've pushed the belly fat farther out a little. I do squats, lifts, benchpresses and other SL exercises and I am getting stronger progressively. But my weight on the scale remains the same? Am I really putting on muscle and losing fat simultaneously or have I been eating more?
2. Is where you lose fat from really genetics? Is it all visceral fat?
3. I have stopped cardio absolutely except 3 miles of walking a day (to and back from gym). Since i have burnt a lot of fat in the past doing it should I resort to HIIT or even high intensity cycling for 20 minutes thrice a week? Try to eat back that much?
Note: I was losing a huge amount of belly fat while doing cardio in the gym and that seemed to stop when I quit hence that thought.
4. How long does it usually take to build abdominal muscles? I have been doing reverse crunches, side dumbells, twisters and cable/weighted crunches. As you might guess patience is a little issue for me since I have been used to quick results.
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Replies
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Continue to cut until you lose the fat and keep lifting.0
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The 5x5 is designed to increase strength at a pretty significant rate. So on top of the fact that you've lost a great deal of weight pretty quick it looks like you're doing good work. You have to remember that your body is responding to new stimuli so give it a chance to adjust.
I think one of the easiest ways to know if you're still losing body fat or not is taking monthly measurements (either with a tape or calipers). That would put your mind at ease when the scale decides to stick.
As much as the media wants to sell you the idea of spot fat loss, it just doesn't happen. You can be predetermined by genetics to hold fat in certain areas, but that doesn't mean you're not in control.
I've read mixed reviews on doing cardio while on the 5x5 program. While the creator says it's not necessary, I still have issues accepting that. Cardiovascular health should be ringing in your head as well. None of us want to be skinny fat, we want to be lean mean fighting machines...and that requires the ability to maintain healthy hearts. So my advice is keep your cardio. I personally love HIIT.
There's no magical formula so throw it in there and see what works for you. And as long as you're at whatever deficit you chose at the end of the day the calories will work themselves out. However, make sure your protein is adequate.
I'm guessing by what you've written you've probably got some decent abs already built. The more an exercises we do the more muscle built therefore the reason why your stomach seems to be sticking out further. But by no means stop exercising them. Abs are made in the kitchen though. Bloating could also be playing a hand in the belly fat. Think about your water and sodium intake as well.
Overall seems like you're doing great even though you feel as though the process is slowing down. Focus on the small victories and keep increasing those plates. You have to remember you didn't put all the weight on overnight so it wont come off overnight either.0 -
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truth.0 -
Yep0 -
OP - like others said keep cutting until you get to sub 15% body fat, and then bulk.
I would also suggest eating about 250 calories under maintenance and shoot for .5 pound per week loss. This will help you maintain existing muscle mass and lose body fat.
You may want to add in some additional calories on off lifting days to help increase calorie burns….but that is a personal choice for you to make...
Edited because for some dumb reason I thought OP was female….0 -
@ndj1979 OP is male.OP - like others said keep cutting until you get to 18-20% body fat, which I believe is the acceptable range for most females to then do a bulk.
I would also suggest eating about 250 calories under maintenance and shoot for .5 pound per week loss. This will help you maintain existing muscle mass and lose body fat.
You may want to add in some additional calories on off lifting days to help increase calorie burns….but that is a personal choice for you to make...
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@ndj1979 OP is male.OP - like others said keep cutting until you get to 18-20% body fat, which I believe is the acceptable range for most females to then do a bulk.
I would also suggest eating about 250 calories under maintenance and shoot for .5 pound per week loss. This will help you maintain existing muscle mass and lose body fat.
You may want to add in some additional calories on off lifting days to help increase calorie burns….but that is a personal choice for you to make...
whoops….
well damn ..
OK - then cut to sub 15% and do everything else….
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@ndj1979 OP is male.OP - like others said keep cutting until you get to 18-20% body fat, which I believe is the acceptable range for most females to then do a bulk.
I would also suggest eating about 250 calories under maintenance and shoot for .5 pound per week loss. This will help you maintain existing muscle mass and lose body fat.
You may want to add in some additional calories on off lifting days to help increase calorie burns….but that is a personal choice for you to make...
whoops….
well damn ..
OK - then cut to sub 15% and do everything else….
I've heard 10-12% can be an optimal range for guys.0 -
@ndj1979 OP is male.OP - like others said keep cutting until you get to 18-20% body fat, which I believe is the acceptable range for most females to then do a bulk.
I would also suggest eating about 250 calories under maintenance and shoot for .5 pound per week loss. This will help you maintain existing muscle mass and lose body fat.
You may want to add in some additional calories on off lifting days to help increase calorie burns….but that is a personal choice for you to make...
whoops….
well damn ..
OK - then cut to sub 15% and do everything else….
I've heard 10-12% can be an optimal range for guys.
it is if one has issues with the fat gain that is inevitable in any bulk …but for some people they can get to 14% and do a slow bulk - .5 pound per week gain - and not have issues…
I could be wrong but I believe the 10-12% comes from when one wants to go for one pound per week gain because fat will be added faster….but I could be wrong.
on my most recent bulk I was about 13% when I started….0 -
@ndj1979 OP is male.OP - like others said keep cutting until you get to 18-20% body fat, which I believe is the acceptable range for most females to then do a bulk.
I would also suggest eating about 250 calories under maintenance and shoot for .5 pound per week loss. This will help you maintain existing muscle mass and lose body fat.
You may want to add in some additional calories on off lifting days to help increase calorie burns….but that is a personal choice for you to make...
whoops….
well damn ..
OK - then cut to sub 15% and do everything else….
I've heard 10-12% can be an optimal range for guys.
it is if one has issues with the fat gain that is inevitable in any bulk …but for some people they can get to 14% and do a slow bulk - .5 pound per week gain - and not have issues…
I could be wrong but I believe the 10-12% comes from when one wants to go for one pound per week gain because fat will be added faster….but I could be wrong.
on my most recent bulk I was about 13% when I started….
Ah nice. I'd guess that the same logic applies to women as well, since i've also heard that starting a bulk as high as 22% BF is fine. I'm not even bothering with % aymore though, just gonna decide to bulk when I look lean enough for my preferences.0 -
Thank you for your responses everyone. It's hard to describe it but I have become a little scared of losing fat further (before gaining muscle). I'll try posting a shirtless picture soon but you can picture me as a fairly lean guy with around 15% fat in most of my upper body. But right when you come down I have this pooch across the abdomen. (like a 25% BF guy) Its not visible over clothing but I can grab it right into my fists. As you leave the abdomen (It's like a lower lining sticking out) my 32'' waist and thighs seem lean again.
Common sense tells me that its because I had a distinctively huge belly to begin with and the excess cardio and dieting just shrunk it and I lost all muscle there. I never did abdominal exercises before as well.
For a month I seemingly was on a 300-350 calorie deficit and lifted as heavy as possible. I was expecting a 3 pound loss over the last month, but gained 2 pounds instead. So did I put on a five pounds of muscle? My arms and chest seem bigger. But I thought you needed those extra calories to grow.
My fear is if I cut and strength train won't I go thinner? I'll lose fat but won't I be caloric-ally lacking to build muscles in its place?
Bulking seems a more logical option, but I'll gain fat too (hopefully not on the belly).
Then there's more stuff on the internet which says maintain your TDEE and keep lifting the muscle growth and increased metabolism creates a deficit slowly burns away the fat.
So damn confusing.
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You cannot bulk and cut at the same time. Choose fat loss or muscle gain as your priority.0
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I am in the same boat! I am a 5'2" 34 year old woman, and before my last 2 children, I was about 115. Yes I had a little pooch from my first baby, but I still felt confident in a bikini. 2 kids later, not so much! I'm back down to 115, but nothing looks the same. I have nice toned arms, skinny legs, but a big lower pooch, which I'm pretty sure is mostly just skin, and a smooshy butt! So I started doing body pump, which has helped a little bit all over, but I'm not seeing much lift in my butt. I don't want to bulk up, and I have no idea what cutting and bulking consists of. But I do want to gain muscle back there. Do I keep my calories at a deficit, or do I up them to build muscle? Although, I'm afraid if I up them, I'll gain everywhere else too! Anyone with personal experience that can offer advice?0
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Congrats on your loss.0
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@ndj1979 you think 18-20% is an acceptable body fat for a female - I think you're off by about 5% personally - it depends on your body shape and as a woman many of us look fabulous at around 25%
I believe that most recommend that range for a female to bulk on ...but I could be wrong..
and not saying that a woman with 25% body fat would not look great...0 -
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@ndj1979 you think 18-20% is an acceptable body fat for a female - I think you're off by about 5% personally - it depends on your body shape and as a woman many of us look fabulous at around 25%
I believe that most recommend that range for a female to bulk on ...but I could be wrong..
and not saying that a woman with 25% body fat would not look great...
*twirls roughly 25% body fat frame*
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@ndj1979 you think 18-20% is an acceptable body fat for a female - I think you're off by about 5% personally - it depends on your body shape and as a woman many of us look fabulous at around 25%
I believe that most recommend that range for a female to bulk on ...but I could be wrong..
and not saying that a woman with 25% body fat would not look great...
*twirls roughly 25% body fat frame*
well you just proved my point that 25% body fat looks great on woman... 0 -
Also when you get closer, up your calories to maintenance and increase weight intensity until you start to lose more weight (fat hopefully) then increase to maintenance again, repeat or increase calories and intensity.0
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neanderthin wrote: »Also when you get closer, up your calories to maintenance and increase weight intensity until you start to lose more weight (fat hopefully) then increase to maintenance again, repeat or increase calories and intensity.
Thank you. I have actually upped my calories to a 250 cal deficit per day. I guess I'll try maintenance level on Body Pump days. Although, I'm not quite sure how I should go about increasing the weight I'm using during the workout, because I'm squatting with all the weights the program came with, but at the same time, I don't want my thighs to get bigger, just my butt! Ha, is that possible?
Do I just do more squats?
I'm not sure if this effects anything at all, but I am also a runner, and am currently training for a half, so right now I do 3 hard training runs a weeks.0 -
I'm all of a sudden having terrible feelings of guilt! I hope I didn't just hijack this nice mans post! In all my years using MFP, I don't think I've ever asked for help. I know I read, and Google, and read some more, but when I read his question, I got all excited and just started typing without making sure I was in the "right spot". I'm not sure what proper MFP etiquette is, but If I did hijack your post, I apologize.0
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Absolutely not Sarah, I just checked after weeks lol. Congrats on your progress!
I can relate a lot. Strength training seems to be working great.0 -
For the next 3-6 months literally just stick to a 20% calorie defecit and keep to the program. SL isn't for muscle growth it's for strength so dont expect huge changes any time soon they will be very slow and gradual. To get that perfect 6 pack model body takes 4-8 years if gym training for most success stories. And no simply put your not gaining muscle are the same rate your losing fat. Esspecially not on this program. You just need to keep going and slowly you'll see the effects not quickly like you want0
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Odd how this post turned out! I would recommend looking at how important strength vs thin looks and abs are for you since you are in a healthy weight range. The lower body fat you go, the harder/longer in general it will be to gain strength.
Abs are 90% about body fat, not strength gain. I use this example all the time: when one of my friends and I would go in the gym and use the ab machine for example, I would use the whole stack of 220lbs for reps, whereas he would only use say 50lbs. But if we take off our shirts, he has visible abs, and mine you could barely see vague outlines of. Unless you have a lot of time and determination to become elite level athlete, abs and strength increase tend to be different directions, just as gaining strength and weight loss are different directions after a while. Cardio and strength training are also somewhat different directions past a certain point as well.
And yes of course, some people have genetic advantages/disadvantages for everything, and where you lose fat is definitely genetic, as is how easy it is to see your abs and what your abs actually look like when you can see them.0 -
Can someone please clarify what I think I am hearing here? That one should continue to focus on losing weight until happy with their body fat %, and then focus on slightly above maintenance to develop muscle mass? Or if I'm within 10 lbs of being totally lean would it be advisable to work on muscle now and worry about the last bit of fat after? Please pardon my noob confusion
I am 5'7 female, 135 lbs, and am rather shocked how much belly/love handle fat remains at this weight compared to when I was last here (30.5" waist vs 28"). Of course, my chest and rear have all but disappeared. I don't really want to go too much lower in weight, but I definitely want to cut this fat. I just started using the YAYOG program to help maintain what teeny muscles I may have. (No gym equipment access)0 -
Sorry, I just reread this thread and the answers are all here! (Just had to get away from the kids to focus) Thank you!0
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Hello everyone, I made this post 7 weeks ago, so here's my progress and observations so far.
Like I had mentioned I have had significant fat in certain areas due to my weight loss regime.
When I joined back the gym in January I was 160 lbs, and looked rather thin (shoulders, calves, back etc). So I spent 8 weeks since then on a mini bulk, banking on a beginner muscle gains with fat loss (There's a small window for a beginner when you put on muscle and lose fat simultaneously when you begin serious muscle training).
I did not strictly stick to SL 5x5, I added calf-work and ab-work, increased the reps a little to comfort. After 8 weeks of bulk I gained quite a bit of muscle mass and size (compared to what I was). Roughly 6-7 pounds. Honestly, I like to believe it was some of the muscle I gained back after the rapid weight loss.
My shoulder, bicep, thighs and back hardened and increased in girth. One noticably thing was the body fat now started 'sticking out' everywhere. The belly size increased slightly, but I could touch the newly forming ab muscles.
So I guess by Feb end, I found by myself looking bigger, wider and mentally prepared to begin another cut. I have been cutting for 4 weeks at 1600-1700 calories with weight training and HIIT twice a week. My weight has dropped down to 160 lbs once again, and this time I have to feel and see the difference to compare.
Everything muscle group seems 'harder' and wider with all the leftover fat sticking out. The chest is starting to get a good shape, the belly looks more ugly though lol, with both muscle and fat in that area and it seems to be reducing VERY slowly since I started on the cut.
I guess it all patience now.
Aiming for strength feels great though. I started with 20-25 lbs of squat, deadlift, bench-press. Have progressed to above 140 lbs in all three is 8 weeks. But I guess in terms of losing all the leftover fat, its still a long way to go.
Will keep posting the progress. Good luck to all sharing a similar journey. Cheers.
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Nice Work, in the same boat here, though I started at a higher 'weight class'. Main thing I keep reminding myself(about my belly) If it took 20years to grow(belly) it's going to take more than a couple months to transform, but I'll keep working at it.
Good Luck!0 -
davidcliff wrote: »Nice Work, in the same boat here, though I started at a higher 'weight class'. Main thing I keep reminding myself(about my belly) If it took 20years to grow(belly) it's going to take more than a couple months to transform, but I'll keep working at it.
Good Luck!
Exactly. Just have to keep on believing.0
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