Lifting to Failure???

NoelFigart1

I am primarily a swimmer, but there's no such thing as a sport that doesn't benefit from strength training. And, being a swimmer, I feel like it is important to do some weight-bearing exercise as a guard against osteoporosis. And, okay, I find weights kinda fun.

So, I have this swim coach who has really helped me out to bring up my speed. She's also a personal trainer, and we got to talking about weights.

Now my normal pattern when I am trying to gain strength is pretty much a slow and steady route. I test it out to see what weight will pretty much challenge me, then I do three sets of eight on the exercise. The next time I train, I do three sets of nine for that exercise. And so on, until I get to twelve reps, then I increase the weight and drop it back to eight.

Over period of time, I went from squatting 30 lbs of dumbbells up to about 90 lbs (using a bar). While not outrageously impressive, that was a significant improvement. I have no idea what my one rep max was, but anyway... I got stronger.

I went through a long period of time of not working out at all. I am not that strong now.

So, my coach commented that what she'd like me to do is choose a weight that would have me doing one set per exercise and lifting to failure. Her assertion that it's the real way to get strong. I know lifting to failure is a thing and that possibly people have success doing it.

But I'm dubious that training alone I'm doing anything but asking for an injury. Thoughts?

CarlydogsMom

If your form is good, most lifts and their associated equipment (i.e. squat rack) have built-in ways to protect you from harm (i.e. dropping the weight/bar) except, possibly, bench press. What you could do is actually practice "failing." For example, the squat rack has bars that will catch the weight-bearing bar if you simply can't raise yourself up. Try it and get comfortable "failing," so you're not so intimidated when it really does happen.

For bench pressing, you may need to get a spotter, or do the "roll of shame" (let the bar land on your body and roll it down to your thighs, sit up, and deal with the bar). Once your bench press gets pretty heavy, you may just need to ask someone to spot you. Typical gym practice, there.

ETA: Oh, and yes, it's a good idea to lift to failure. If your goals are to build strength, and especially increase muscle volume and capacity, reduced reps and heavier loads are the way to go. Instead of starting at 8 reps and going to 12 over time, try the 5x5 route (five sets of five reps), where on at least one set you go to failure. There are numerous ways to construct the 5x5s, like have the third set be your max weight, where you lift to failure, and then you de-load a bit for the 4th set, and then de-load again for your 5th set but go to failure (i.e. you may be able to do 10 reps instead of 5...). There are a number of programs you can look at to set up what will work for you

dave4d

1. Are you lifting in a squat or power rack? If you can't take advantage of the safety bars to protect you when you lift, I would never lift to failure.
2. Lifting to failure has its benefits, (It can get you to push more weight than you may be comfortable with, allowing you bigger gains in your lifts.), but it will also make you more prone to injury. I try to go to near failure, but I never lift to failure unless I have a good spotter that I trust.... To both advise me on form and assist me on my failed rep.

AllanMisner

Your original method was sound, although the 8 - 12 rep range is more hypertrophy. I’d go in the 3 - 6 rep range for strength.

Failure is okay, but not always necessary. For example, if I’m doing a very heavy 5 x 5, I will put on a weight that makes that last 5 reps really difficult. Because I’m taking 2 - 3 minute breaks, I’m very well recovered. But there is a possibility I won’t get that last rep up. It happens. I’d rather push a heavier weight and have that fail than take weight off just to make 5.

When you’re lifting and there is the risk of a failure, make sure you’re prepared for it. Get a spotter, set safety bars to catch the weight, or let the weight go (better to apologize for dropping weight than to get hurt). If you can’t have a safe way to lift, then don’t lift at the edge of failure.

lisalsd1

Everything I've read has basically said not to lift to failure ALL of the time. I'm using 5/3/1 and the heaviest rep is 95% of your 1RM. Following this program, I have been able to go from squatting 45lbs to 145lbs in about 6 months. Check out some of the articles on t-nation.com.

cajuntank

Just realize the its all a matter of recovery. Its hard to say how "your" body recovers based on current workload and nutrition (more calories typically equals better recovery). If you push yourself to failure enough, and you don't give yourself enough time to recover, then fatigue will not have enough time to dissipate causing issues of injury and/or not wanting to go back to the gym, etc... Good lifting programming usually has this programmed in depending on your lifting level @lisalsd1 mentioned 5/3/1 which has scheduled deloads to help with this fatigue offset. While a RTS program will have you generally leave "one rep in the tank" so you are never (or very rarely) need to deload since you never train to absolute failure, thus fatigue is dispersed more slowly through the program. Some of the strongest people in the world train these two ways, regardless of rep ranges.

dbmata

AllanMisner wrote: »

Your original method was sound, although the 8 - 12 rep range is more hypertrophy. I’d go in the 3 - 6 rep range for strength.

Failure is okay, but not always necessary. For example, if I’m doing a very heavy 5 x 5, I will put on a weight that makes that last 5 reps really difficult. Because I’m taking 2 - 3 minute breaks, I’m very well recovered. But there is a possibility I won’t get that last rep up. It happens. I’d rather push a heavier weight and have that fail than take weight off just to make 5.

When you’re lifting and there is the risk of a failure, make sure you’re prepared for it. Get a spotter, set safety bars to catch the weight, or let the weight go (better to apologize for dropping weight than to get hurt). If you can’t have a safe way to lift, then don’t lift at the edge of failure.

yes.

NoelFigart1

dave4d wrote: »

1. Are you lifting in a squat or power rack? If you can't take advantage of the safety bars to protect you when you lift, I would never lift to failure.
2. Lifting to failure has its benefits, (It can get you to push more weight than you may be comfortable with, allowing you bigger gains in your lifts.), but it will also make you more prone to injury. I try to go to near failure, but I never lift to failure unless I have a good spotter that I trust.... To both advise me on form and assist me on my failed rep.

Right now, I am using dumbbells (adjustable. I have the plates to put up to 42.5 lbs on each dumbbell) at home. I swim enough that I'd just as soon not do two gym sessions a day to get in my weight training. I may have to suck it up and do it, though, if it turns out I need the heavier equipment.

So, no. No safety equipment. And by weightlifter standards I'm weak as a cat right now, so that's plenty to challenge me.

But everyone is giving me some interesting advice to chew on, and it looks like I was wrong in thinking she was kinda nuts in her recommendations.

dbmata

Try to clip a cat's nails, they're very strong for their size, and their power generation is astounding. A legit 48"+ vertical is no joke, that's strength and power.

dbmata

You'll want heavier equipment, and she was in the right ballpark with her suggestions.

NoelFigart1

dbmata wrote: »

Try to clip a cat's nails, they're very strong for their size, and their power generation is astounding. A legit 48"+ vertical is no joke, that's strength and power.

LOL. Yes, yes. Cats are actually strong. There are things deader than doornails, too. But the wisdom of our ancestors is in the simile; and my unhallowed hands shall not disturb it, or the Country's done for.

silentKayak

You should lift to failure occasionally. Asking for a spotter is no big deal. Look for someone who's just finished their set and is dicking around with their phone while waiting to recover. Regulars at your gym will almost certainly be happy to help out. Also, if you ever go with a friend, take advantage of them and do your heavy lifts then.

dave4d

If you are just using dumbbells, you should be fairly safe, but you will have a very hard time getting to failure in certain lifts.

rybo

No one has commented on doing only one set to failure routine? Without any context of rep range? Lifting to technical failure has its place, but i see it as being used where needed as opposed to standard procedure and certainly not something done every time for every workout.

softblondechick

The issue is safety and overuse on arm, wrists. One lifter I know did permanent damage to her wrists because of lifting to fatigue. As long as your form is correct, and you stay aware of potential issue, it should be okay.

rgkirsch

Look at "The Body Fat Breakthrough" by Dr. Ellington Darden. The breakthrough is based on slow reps with an emphasis placed on the negative (lowering) part of the rep. It's been life changing for me!

rick_po

Also, remember: beginners reach failure they can't lift with good form, not when they can't move the weight any more.

Beginners have a lot of strength imbalances, and form breaking down often means some muscle (like a stabilizer, or a secondary synergist) has reached failure, and it's time to stop. So lift to failure means lift until form fails.

dave4d

rick_po wrote: »

Also, remember: beginners reach failure they can't lift with good form, not when they can't move the weight any more.

Beginners have a lot of strength imbalances, and form breaking down often means some muscle (like a stabilizer, or a secondary synergist) has reached failure, and it's time to stop. So lift to failure means lift until form fails.

Good post.

Sam_I_Am77

I'm assuming this recommendation came from your swimming sport coach and not a strength-and-conditioning (S&C) coach? Here's the thing, sports coaches are often NOT experts or even all that educated on how strength & conditioning. Training to failure has it's place and time but is not a good idea to do all the time. One, it is draining on your body and makes it harder to recover from. You're in swimming so your main goal is to get better at swimming not get better at squatting, squatting is a means to an end. Two, often form can go out the window and you could end-up hurting yourself or at the very least get little benefit from it. Three, training to failure is nothing more than testing your strength. You want to build strength not test it. One of the best suggestions given to me by another S&C was to go for a personal best or train to failure once every 6 weeks. You should get into a better strength program and hopefully find somebody that can give you better direction.