Running with bad knee

Leeanncalloway

I want to start running, downloaded C25K and went out for the first time today. I only made it 17 minutes. Just over a year ago, I tore my ACL, MCL, and miniscus. I had 2 surgeries, ACL replaced with cadaver ACL, and the rest cleaned up, but still have a lot of pain and sometimes my knee still 'goes out'. Would tightly wrapping my knee help? I wasn't in the best shape when this happened and have gained weight since. I've been trying to lose through low carb, eating at a deficit, and working out as much as I can. I have a gym membership, but I don't always have time to get there. I hate cardio and prefer working out on the weight machines at the gym. Any suggestions on running with a bad knee without a terrible amount of pain?

lindzgayle

I don't know anything about the bum knee, but it might help to slowly work up to your time/distance goal instead of trying to do it right out of the gate.

jgnatca

Awwww, heck. I went to a physiotherapist just to make sure I don't do damage. Running is repetitive strain. He's given me a bunch of stretches to loosen up my stiff hips. It turns out my poor knees were compensating for those hips.

He did say that running through pain might result in a three month recovery instead of a two week recovery. He's had me dial back some of my activity and restructure it so my knees have more time to recover between runs.

If you hate cardio, why not work on the weight machines instead?

hill8570

Do you have access to a physical therapist? I'd think you're flirting with permanent damage if you don't get help ramping up correctly.

rsclause

I would start walking briskly until you get three miles daily without pain. I would then start to mix some brief running intervals in. Starting slow and working up is the only way I can get around knee pain. Good luck!

lishie_rebooted

If you hate cardio, don't force yourself to run. Injury or not.

If you actually want to run, talk to a physical therapist

sullus

After all that work done on your knee, surely you have a doctor to turn to for advice on this, no?

Leeanncalloway

I did have 3 months of physical therapy after the last surgery. I returned to work 2 weeks after surgery against my surgeons instructions-bills to pay- and suspect that I didn't allow enough healing time.

Talkradio

I've had chronic knee problems, and when I tried c25k a few years ago, I messed up my knee and had to stop. Is there a reason why you are trying to get up to a 5k quickly? I agree with the above posters that it would be helpful to focus on walking with a distance goal before you start running. You need to condition your knee to support your weight before you push it.

That being said, I'm an amateur with a guess, so go see a doctor/physical therapist to reduce your risk of injury. Good luck!

Leeanncalloway

sullus wrote: »

After all that work done on your knee, surely you have a doctor to turn to for advice on this, no?

The only thing he has said is build the supporting muscles(which I have been doing), lose 20 pounds to save wear and tear, and I probably should give up skiing(I have). Just really feel like running is a good way to improve health and speed up weight loss.

captainjorge

I don't have personal experience with this , but two tips come to mind: 1) Use Galloway's run/walk/run method - adjusting the intervals to what causes the least amount of pain. 2) Strength training of the quadriceps which stabilize the patella - Squats and Deadlifts (and variations) with weight that you can handle safely and progress as you get stronger.

Pie319

My knee has the same story as yours! twice torn ACL, cadaver replacement, meniscus, all the works. I now have arthritis in that knee which is why it hurts when I run sometimes. I have found the only thing that helps is if I work really hard on strengthening my leg and butt muscles a lot. That way, your muscles are supporting your movements so it doesn't all have to rely on the joint.
After a really quick google search, it seems pretty easy to find good leg exercises to help stabilize keees. here's the first one that came up:
http://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/ncal/Images/Knee Strengthening and Stability Exercises_tcm28-180797.pdf

edit to add: My knee felt the best when i was consistently lifting weights through New Rules of Lifting for Women and then after that Stronglifts

DavPul

Well, I know I'm going to advise you to see a professional, and I'd probably advise you to give up running for right now but I'm already getting crucified for suggesting that in another thread....so don't give up? We're all here for the same things, right?


Anyhoo, cadaver tissue is used when the person isn't expected to be extremely active. Recovery from the procedure is faster, but not nearly as complete as when you're own tissue is used. If you continue, will you *permanently* damage your knee? I dunno.....but do you want to risk it. I doubt permanent, but at the very least it you're greatly increasing the likelihood of needing another major surgery (based on the info you provided and my Internet Doctor degree).

Stop jacking around and go see the doc.

mistyloveslife

I literally just typed a post about running after a major heel fracture and reconstructive surgery. I decided not to post it (because people in the forums can be cruel) but here's what I'm dealing with and how I'm attacking it from my angle.

On April 26, 2014, I fell off a 10 ft. wall during a Spartan race and severely fractured my heel. This injury has been life altering. I had to have reconstructive surgery in May which required a plate and 12 screws. It took 5 months for the doctor to allow me to take a step followed by 3 months of PT. I still walk with a slight limp. My doctor has said several times that I will likely never run again but also reminded me that I have surprised him every step of the way to this point so anything is possible. I am so determined.

With all of this I will tell you what I'm doing and maybe you can add me as a friend to see if it works.

I am starting out with weight loss and walking as much as I can. I am trying to set "running" goals with my weight loss goals. Example: I started out at 178.8. Until I reach 160, I plan to walk 2 miles 3-4 times a week and attempt to better my time. Once I get to 160, I plan to start the couch to 5K program. The plan is that if I do a week and haven't "mastered" it, I'll repeat it. I'll do so until I reach the end.

Walking 2 miles has been really hard some days. I have excessive swelling and pain. It aches a lot when I'm resting it. I'm sure you have the same issues with your knee. The doctor told me that usually once you get 1 year post injury/healing, you will start to feel normal again. He also said these types of injuries are chronic with pain and to adapt your exercises accordingly.

Try to keep in mind that we aren't typical people. I myself have never been an avid runner but prior to my injury I had beat shin splints and inflammation in my feet. I was up to running 3 miles consistently. Not very fast but enough to make my pony tail bounce. haha.

Just remember that you have to build up to it and that some days will be harder than others. Sorry to write a book. I just know where you are coming from and although I feel terrible for you, it's nice to have someone who can relate.

Good luck and feel free to add me!

dopeysmelly

rsclause wrote: »

I would start walking briskly until you get three miles daily without pain. I would then start to mix some brief running intervals in. Starting slow and working up is the only way I can get around knee pain. Good luck!

^This is sensible advice. I tore my medial meniscus and had surgery to clean it up at the beginning of October. I tried just a few intervals (1min slow run, 5 min walk) 3x per week for 2 weeks, and it didn't feel right, so I stopped for now. I will probably go back and try again in a few months. I figured I didn't want to risk something which could make my retirement years absolutely debilitating just for the sake of running now.

To lose weight successfully, just focus on keeping your calories at a deficit. You don't HAVE to run to lose weight. Also, there are lots of different cardio options than running, and although I know you said you don't like them, why not have a go anyway? I looked at postponing running as an opportunity to investigate other cardio - I found I really, really enjoy indoor rowing and I like the stationary bike, but the elliptical less so (but do it once a week for variety).

Oh and walking. I love walking.

Leeanncalloway

I can walk 3-4 miles without terrible pain (usually) and really thought I had strengthened the supporting muscles enough. I most likely will give up the idea of running again, just wanted to give it a good try and wondered if wrapping might help.
DavPul-my ortho was just doing what he felt was best to get me back on my feet quickly and felt that since I was 40 and willing to give up skiing, the cadaver was the best choice for me.

cwolfman13

Personally, i would start with my ortho or physical therapist on this. As a matter of common sense i would likely steer myself in the direction of lower impact workouts...as a matter of fact, it's one of the reasons I cycle. I don't have knee issues, but I have other issues and running only exacerbates those issues and isn't at all worth it, particularly if you're talking long term/permanent damage. I can cycle until the cows come home without issue whereas a couple of days of running might leave me laid up for a week or so recovering.

DavPul

Leeanncalloway wrote: »

I can walk 3-4 miles without terrible pain (usually) and really thought I had strengthened the supporting muscles enough. I most likely will give up the idea of running again, just wanted to give it a good try and wondered if wrapping might help.
DavPul-my ortho was just doing what he felt was best to get me back on my feet quickly and felt that since I was 40 and willing to give up skiing, the cadaver was the best choice for me.

I understand. The same thing happened to me, and even though I was in my 30s, I wasn't ready to give up playing ball do I opted for the longer recovery route. If I had to do it again today, I'm not certain what my decision would be. Probably the same as yours.

I wasn't criticising your doc, I was stating that your knee is limited and you'll need to work around that. But you should go see him, because there's a good chance you need something cleaned up or tightened in there. I've had to do that to mine twice. Minor procedure with easy, quick recovery. Missed one day of work, IIRC

Leeanncalloway

I've been afraid to go back and hear that I need more surgery-ACL recovery was the absolute worst pain I have ever felt! Glad to hear the maintenance surgeries aren't as bad so maybe I will go see him.

DavPul

Tiny hole, did.....something (I'm an Internet doctor, not surgeon) and I walked to the car under my own power. Wife drove, of course. Oh, and when the anesthetic completely wore off I wished I hadn't done that walking.

YMMV, of course. But if you stick your head in the sand things could deteriorate to the point where you DO need to get the whole shebang done again. Don't go that route.

MeanderingMammal

Leeanncalloway wrote: »

I've been afraid to go back and hear that I need more surgery-ACL recovery was the absolute worst pain I have ever felt! Glad to hear the maintenance surgeries aren't as bad so maybe I will go see him.

I've had reconstruction of knees and ankles. I run half marathon distances pretty consistently now and I'm in marathon training.

Key point is, physio advice is key. This is not something you can achieve without building up to it.

See a physio, take their advice and build up to it. If you randomly try to work through it you'll potentially end up entrenching the damage.

WandaMM1

Is running your only option? What about swimming or group fitness (e.g. aerobics class or spinning). Even though it is very much an 80's kick back, I love step aerobics. I have a torn ACL and am missing most of my meniscus. I am able to do step aerobics completely pain free as long as I am careful not to pivot or make lateral jarring movements with my "bad" knee.

helschalk

Having suffered with a torn acl for the past 2 years running is not the best excersise. If you want to work on cardio aspect of training could I suggest you try something like cycling or using a cross trainer. I have found these allow me to have a good full body workout but I don't compromise the stability of my knee.