Lifting question

lesliev523

This is actually as a parent I am asking.... My 17 year old son has a 1 rep max of 420lb squat....

But his weights and conditioning teacher doesn't make them do any dead lifts or back exercises,. They are graded on the squat and the bench press.

His back has really been bothering him, and we started talking about how much he is lifting in class. When I asked if he did DL's, he said not really and when he did the weight was at 125lbs. Um... my DL is 135lbs,.. and that is doing three sets of 8 reps.

This just seems wrong, and I want to talk to the teacher, but I don't know if I am way off base.

For the record, he is 5'11" and weighs 167lbs.... with no body fat! LOL He is a hockey and lacrosse player, but is trying get some bulk in this off season for hockey.

ValerieMomof2

What is their daily routine like?

alliebeth88

I think you should work with him to do deadlifts outside of class rather than risk going head to head with the instructor.

I agree 125 doesn't sound like much weight when his squat is so high up. I've been lifting for just a week and I can deadlift 95 lbs...

BeachIron

You have a strong son and he may or may not be lifting correctly. If he's squatting and benching and not doing any deads or overhead presses then he is missing something. Either find a coach who knows what he's doing and can help him build out the rest of his strength, or start reading and listening to the experts. My suggestion would be to listen to the form guidance provided by Mark Rippetoe in his Starting Strength book.

I would avoid the direct advice you're going to get here as it will be difficult to figure out which people to listen to. Better to go right to someone who has a reputation that speaks for itself.

lesliev523

You have a strong son and he may or may not be lifting correctly. If he's squatting and benching and not doing any deads or overhead presses then he is missing something. Either find a coach who knows what he's doing and can help him build out the rest of his strength, or start reading and listening to the experts. My suggestion would be to listen to the form guidance provided by Mark Rippetoe.

I would avoid the direct advice you're going to get here as it will be difficult to figure out which people to listen to. Better to go right to someone who has a reputation that speaks for itself.

Good points... and I am not sure going directly against his weights and conditioning teacher at the end of the year would be a good idea. He is going to be doing alot on his own or with me at the gym this summer so I can watch his progress and encourage some other exercises. I am also wanting to get a personal trainer for a few sessions for both of us..

lesliev523

What is their daily routine like?

Not positive... he doesn't even really know the name of all of the exercises he does.

LoraF83

You have a strong son and he may or may not be lifting correctly. If he's squatting and benching and not doing any deads or overhead presses then he is missing something. Either find a coach who knows what he's doing and can help him build out the rest of his strength, or start reading and listening to the experts. My suggestion would be to listen to the form guidance provided by Mark Rippetoe in his Starting Strength book.

I would avoid the direct advice you're going to get here as it will be difficult to figure out which people to listen to. Better to go right to someone who has a reputation that speaks for itself.

^This.

Edit to add that a personal trainer and a lifting coach may or may not be the same thing. The average commercial gym trainer might not have much in the way to offer your son. A coach might be able to offer more. It's something to consider depending on how serious your son is about lifting.

BeachIron

You have a strong son and he may or may not be lifting correctly. If he's squatting and benching and not doing any deads or overhead presses then he is missing something. Either find a coach who knows what he's doing and can help him build out the rest of his strength, or start reading and listening to the experts. My suggestion would be to listen to the form guidance provided by Mark Rippetoe.

I would avoid the direct advice you're going to get here as it will be difficult to figure out which people to listen to. Better to go right to someone who has a reputation that speaks for itself.

Good points... and I am not sure going directly against his weights and conditioning teacher at the end of the year would be a good idea. He is going to be doing alot on his own or with me at the gym this summer so I can watch his progress and encourage some other exercises. I am also wanting to get a personal trainer for a few sessions for both of us..

Rather than going to a regular gym and trying to find a personal trainer there, try to find a specialized powerlifting gym. You're much more likely to get knowledgeable advice there. That said, I would still ask plenty of questions and make sure that the person you hire to help your son is qualified and really knows his/her stuff. Too many PTs seem to be clueless.

mikejholmes

You have a strong son and he may or may not be lifting correctly. If he's squatting and benching and not doing any deads or overhead presses then he is missing something. Either find a coach who knows what he's doing and can help him build out the rest of his strength, or start reading and listening to the experts. My suggestion would be to listen to the form guidance provided by Mark Rippetoe in his Starting Strength book.

I would avoid the direct advice you're going to get here as it will be difficult to figure out which people to listen to. Better to go right to someone who has a reputation that speaks for itself.

Yup. And you can get in touch with Mark directly at his forums.
http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=129

Warchortle

It depends on the type of squat and dead lifts he's performing. I assume he's powerlifting so he's doing a low bar and not high bar squats... a sumo style dead lifts replicates more of a reverse squat more so than the traditional style of dead lift. Also, powerlifting dead lift form is different than conventional. His coach no offense is a retard because the best way to develop muscle strength is by doing a variety of exercise that will stimulate the muscles from different angles.

If he wants to develop his back he can do rack pulls, which are basically only the upper 1/2 of a deadlift, which negates leg portion of the exercise.

lesliev523

THANK YOU to everyone who has answered this.

Once he is out of school, he will be coming to my gym... while I don't know if it is considered a power lifting gym, the majority of the male trainers have won many bodybuilding awards though the midwest. So I think if I talk to one of those guys, they can help him.

Personally I think his teacher is a *kitten*. But I have been convinced to let it go, and not say anything. I told him not to push too hard for his "final" because I am concerned for his back. His back pain has been really bad over the last couple weeks, and I know that this is why. I will be taking him in to have it looked at if it doesn't calm down with some rest.

I mean seriously.... I can't imagine a 165lb kid squatting 420.... and not even knowing about other exercises!

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

Is his coach only allowing him to DL the weight of a small woman or is that his max? With a >4 plate squat I can guarantee he's capable of DL'ing much heavier unless he's doing 1/64th ROM squats.

lesliev523

Honestly.... I don't know what this teacher is thinking. It is so frustrating!

lesliev523

Alright... I broke down and nicely asked the teacher a few things without questioning anything.

This is his response:

"Thanks for your email. His max is based off of a sub max effort. He performed a 85% effort times 10. This is what created the higher max last week. Students have the flexibility to focus on technique if they are not ready for heavier weights. He has not told me about a problem with his back, but I think we should back off if his back is bothering him.



We don't deadlift we do the Romanian Deadlift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnBREGM7pE0. This put the emphasis on the hamstrings and lower back so it does not allow the athlete to handle as much weight as a deadlift. We do many other exercises to strengthen the lower back to allow him to handle more weight. If his technique is not good we do not allow him to continue with heavier weights. I hope this helps."

And in his signature, he has a masters degree.... and is the USA Weightlifting Club Coach

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

Alright... I broke down and nicely asked the teacher a few things without questioning anything.

This is his response:

"Thanks for your email. His max is based off of a sub max effort. He performed a 85% effort times 10. This is what created the higher max last week. Students have the flexibility to focus on technique if they are not ready for heavier weights. He has not told me about a problem with his back, but I think we should back off if his back is bothering him.



We don't deadlift we do the Romanian Deadlift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnBREGM7pE0. This put the emphasis on the hamstrings and lower back so it does not allow the athlete to handle as much weight as a deadlift. We do many other exercises to strengthen the lower back to allow him to handle more weight. If his technique is not good we do not allow him to continue with heavier weights. I hope this helps."

And in his signature, he has a masters degree.... and is the USA Weightlifting Club Coach

It sounds like he's paranoid that one of his students will take a trip to snap city and he's just trying to avoid the possibility altogether by not having them max out on an exercise that can be dangerous if done with crap form. I'd recommend just taking him to the gym with you and teach him how to DL. His squat put him at near elite levels (assuming 420 is his 1RM). What's his max bench? You could potentially get this kid competing if he can DL more than my groceries weigh.