Effect of Alcohol

jenny3008

I just wondered how big/long an effect alcohol had on weight loss.

I know that when you drink alcohol the body metabolises that before anything else, however I'm wondering how long that process takes. Obviously this depends on how much is drunk and varies slightly from person to person.

My problem is I'm not dropping any weight. I'm not gaining but I'm not losing.

I have tracked everything I've eaten over the last month, weighed it all. Even the alcohol. I have a pub measuring thing at home.

I have calculated that I've consumed 55675 calories over the past month (30 days) which averages 1855 per day. I have exercised most week days, sometimes twice a day. I work out with a PT doing a mix of cardio and weights with the emphasis. There was also a 10k tough mudder type course in there and some additional training that goes with it. On average I burn approximately 543 cals a day according to the HRM but as I tend not to eat them back this figure is not so important.

I've calculated my BMR and TDEE on the Scooby site that is recommended and get the following.
BMR - 1569kcal
TDEE - 2433kcal
TDEE-15% 2068kcal

Now I think this means that I should be losing at least some weight.

My PT thinks that I am one of those unfortunate people who will not drop weight if they drink any alcohol. However I have lost 10kg(ish) so far and alcohol wise nothing has changed. I only drink at the weekend. I've been at a plateau since the middle of December. It was all going well, I went to a family meal at a restaurant. Next morning 4kg weight gain that will not move.

Does anyone have any info on whether the effect is down to alcohol?

I think I'm still losing inches. I haven't taken my measurements in a while because I'm worried that they won't have changed. I'm trying to convince myself that the number on the scale is not all important and to become happier with myself so I'm just giving it a little longer before I measure again.

I realise this last paragraph is contradictory saying I'm not worried about the number and then trying to figure out why it won't change but its bugging me. Apart from having a drink on the weekend I'm doing it all 'properly'

vismal

You are correct in stating that the body prioritizes alcohol over everything else when you consume it. You stop burning fat or utilizing glycogen for the most part until the alcohol is metabolized. This does not stop calories in vs calories out from being the cause of weight loss. If you take in 200 calories worth of alcohol, once you body has burned the 200 calories, it will go back to using it's normal fuels. So think of alcohol as just another source of calories. As to why you are not losing weight, if you've really not seen a any losses since December, you're eating too much. I know you said you weigh your food, that's good. Do you weigh 100% of it all the time or are there certain things you just guess or use tablespoons or measuring cups on? How often do you cheat? Do you eat unaccounted for foods when you drink? How often do you eat out or have food you did not prepare yourself? Also how much do you weigh and how tall are you?

ew_david

Just because a website calculator tells you your TDEE is X, doesn't make it so. You have good data tracking though, so it just may be that your actual TDEE is lower. You would be losing otherwise.

jenny3008

vismal wrote: »

. Do you weigh 100% of it all the time or are there certain things you just guess or use tablespoons or measuring cups on? How often do you cheat? Do you eat unaccounted for foods when you drink? How often do you eat out or have food you did not prepare yourself? Also how much do you weigh and how tall are you?

Thanks for the reply
I'm 5 ft 6 and 81.5kg
I weigh everything apart from things like pepper. I actually avoid using oils and such because I can't be bothered weighing and measuring them

I only eat food that I've not prepared myself a couple of times a month, I travel a lot but haven't been in hotels since before xmas. I record everything on here the good the bad and the ugly and if there is a case that I don't know how much I've had I err high. Say for example I have a bag of crisps, my OH never wants his own bag because they taste better out of mine apparently. I log the whole bag. I'm not really a snacked when I'm drinking mainly because I don't buy them to eat.

If the body burns the alcohol that way then the only reason can be CICO being wrong. So I need to find where I'm missing them. On the plus because I'm accidentally not eating at deficit I am building muscle. My PBs are all up this week

sofaking6

As you lose weight and get fitter that TDEE will change - when did you last calculate it?

Cortelli

vismal wrote: »

You are correct in stating that the body prioritizes alcohol over everything else when you consume it. You stop burning fat or utilizing glycogen for the most part until the alcohol is metabolized. This does not stop calories in vs calories out from being the cause of weight loss. If you take in 200 calories worth of alcohol, once you body has burned the 200 calories, it will go back to using it's normal fuels. So think of alcohol as just another source of calories.

[. . . snip . . .]

_dracarys_ wrote:

Just because a website calculator tells you your TDEE is X, doesn't make it so. You have good data tracking though, so it just may be that your actual TDEE is lower. You would be losing otherwise.

Wanted to emphasize both these points.

Vismal's post states more clearly than most others when the subject of alcohol comes up how I believe we should look at alcohol calories. On MFP you'll typically see a lot of comments about "your body stops burning fat when alcohol is present in your system." But if you're in an overall deficit, it's just shifting times during your day on when something or something else is being used for energy.

And _dracarys_'s post is spot on in that all website calculators are designed to calculate *estimates* based on whatever variables they decide to include in their calculations. They're just estimates, and I believe everyone would benefit from strict and regular tracking of both calories in and calories out to determine where their TDEE or NEAT actually falls. I know from pretty careful tracking earlier (I am a lot more loosey-goosey now) that my TDEE is lower than I'd wish for, even if it is not too far off from what many calculators might provide.

If you're tracking very carefully as you note (but look at your estimates for calories burned through exercise, too - many times these might be overstated) then you've probably got to conclude that website calculators are over-estimating your calorie intake targets by a bit. In other words, you need to lower calories or increase calories used in order to meet your goals. If you have solid data about your own CICO, you need to put your faith in that data and your weight loss / gain efforts instead of a random web calculator (no matter how well regarded that particular calculator may be).

jenny3008

sofaking6 wrote: »

As you lose weight and get fitter that TDEE will change - when did you last calculate it?

The figures were from yesterday just before I posted

jenny3008

Cortelli I guess I just hoped that my TDEE would be closer to the website figure. Sucks a bit to be maintaining on my calorie intake of 1850 given the amount of exercise I do.

I don't really want to cut back any, the daily figure is actually 1500 each day but a few high days push up the average. I can just about remain satisfied on that although in weights days it's hard. I'm just so hungry.

The main reason I don't eat back my exercise calories is because they are pretty hard to work out. I use a HRM every time, it's a guide to calorie burn and how hard I've worked only.

I can't fit in any more exercise time at the moment I'm managing about 7-8 hours a week and have no free time at the weekends just now but come summer I will manage to get a bit more free time .So hopefully that will get things moving again

Cortelli

jenny3008 wrote: »

Cortelli I guess I just hoped that my TDEE would be closer to the website figure. Sucks a bit to be maintaining on my calorie intake of 1850 given the amount of exercise I do.

I don't really want to cut back any, the daily figure is actually 1500 each day but a few high days push up the average. I can just about remain satisfied on that although in weights days it's hard. I'm just so hungry.

I know; it sucks. According to Scooby and other calculators, I should maintain around 2400 - 2600. I actually maintain somewhere in the low 2300's. A few hundred extra calories would be nice!

The main reason I don't eat back my exercise calories is because they are pretty hard to work out. I use a HRM every time, it's a guide to calorie burn and how hard I've worked only.

Well, I try and eat my exercise calories back just to be sure I am fueling myself adequately, but I really don't do a lot of cardio or steady state work, so it's not much of an issue for me most of the time. I'm not sure I understood your last point - is it that you use the HRM for intensity tracking purposes only (and not calories)? HRMs, while useful for a number of things, are not really designed to present accurate calorie burns across a number of activities, and they are also using algorithms based on the general populace (not based on YOU) for things like calorie burns. So, if you're *not* treating your HRM outputs as gospel on calorie burns for activity, then I think you're a step ahead of the game. Good luck!

jenny3008

Cortelli wrote: »

jenny3008 wrote: »

Well, I try and eat my exercise calories back just to be sure I am fueling myself adequately, but I really don't do a lot of cardio or steady state work, so it's not much of an issue for me most of the time. I'm not sure I understood your last point - is it that you use the HRM for intensity tracking purposes only (and not calories)? HRMs, while useful for a number of things, are not really designed to present accurate calorie burns across a number of activities, and they are also using algorithms based on the general populace (not based on YOU) for things like calorie burns. So, if you're *not* treating your HRM outputs as gospel on calorie burns for activity, then I think you're a step ahead of the game. Good luck!

Hi Cortelli

That's pretty much how I use it as an indication of how hard I'm working, where my HR gets too, what my recovery times are like etc. My PT particularly likes to use it when we do stamina/endurance type work outs the rest time tends to be based on my HR as opposed to a certain length of time.

The calorie burn is just a bit of an indication but I've noticed it fluctuates wildly depending on how quickly I recover so no I don't use it as gospel. It means I don't have to sweat it too much if I'm hungry and go over by 200 cals for example in a particular day.

I think from a purely 'fuel' point of view, I'm eating plenty. I eat lots of lean protein, vegetables, cottage cheese, greek yoghurt that sort of thing. I'm getting fitter and stronger and generally feel good. Apart from days like today when I wonder why I exercise and is there a part of my body that doesn't hurt but its been a heavy exercise week and I enjoyed it all.

I guess I just have to keep doing what I am doing.

One thing I wondered is, if we assume that I am eating at some sort of maintenance as my weight isn't dropping. Will I still tone up and burn fat if I am doing largely weight based routines?

This is the most important thing for me. To burn fat and be more toned

TheLittleFangs

For what it's worth I quit alcohol for health reasons 8 months ago. There was no magic 'drop' of weight. I have probably lost at about the same rate.

Cortelli

jenny3008 wrote: »

[. . . snip . . .]

One thing I wondered is, if we assume that I am eating at some sort of maintenance as my weight isn't dropping. Will I still tone up and burn fat if I am doing largely weight based routines?

This is the most important thing for me. To burn fat and be more toned

This will really depend on what sort of workouts and resistance training you're doing - that will be an important factor. For example, if you're working with low weights and doing like 30 reps or something per exercise, you are more likely to be training your muscles for endurance and getting a little dose of cardio-vascular work in. May still result in "toning" but it is hard to say because that word means a lot of things to different people (or means not much of anything depending).

Without writing a novella, eating at around maintenance and engaging in solid, progressive resistance training should result in strength improvements, potential muscle growth, and some fat loss, hopefully generating the more defined look (which is how I am interpreting "toned") that you're looking for. It can be a slow process, though, so avoiding discouragement is a challenge you need to be aware of!

jenny3008

Thanks Cortelli

We mix it up a fair bit. Sometimes it's high rep low weights, I need to do this as I have hypermobility in my joints and I need the low weights high reps not only for endurance but to train the ligaments and tendons. These sessions normally have a cardio aspect in them. Other sessions are medium weights and reps to build the strength. Lots of kettle ball work here, squatting shoulder press etc. Also pull up practice, dips that sort of thing.... A full pull up is one of my personal goals
Then we do my favourite bit which is the actual lifting. There are also 2-3 circuit based cardio sessions a week. Tabatta and similar.

I'm ok with slow, it's pretty much amazing to me that I'm managing to do what I can and there is going to be a limit in the not too much heavier future that my joints can't take any more but will cross that bridge when I come to it

coachmike24fit

If you are not seeing the scale move as desired you may want to look at more data such as, body fat percentage, lean muscle mass, girth/circumference measurements of waist, hips, chest, arms, thighs, calves. This will be help understand changes in body composition versus simply looking at weight. With the lean muscle mass and body fat percentage you can more accurately calculate basal metabolic rate and total daily energy expenditure.

As for alcohol, I personally abstain from its use 24hrs a day 7 days a week. I have no desire to compromise my performance in any shape, form, or fashion; form follows function. Alcohol impacts function. As the comments here have been back and forth, there is research that states the impact of alcohol on the human body. Considering you are in the gym and workout, the impact to athletes would be more applicable than the sedentary individual.

Here is the conclusion from a study done on alcohol and athletic performance, recovery:

Both the affects of alcohol on human physiology and the parameters that determine athletic performance are multi-factorial and extremely complicated. A significant body of literature has established an array of adverse symptoms caused by acute alcohol ingestion. However the notion that alcohol consumption effects performance has not received enough consistent validation to advance beyond being anecdotal. Nevertheless, just because alcohol is not yet comprehensively shown to have a negative influence on performance, does not imply this review advocates its use prior to, or following competition. Indeed, the data demonstrates a severe lack of analysis on the possible detrimental action of alcohol in the recovering athlete. However, based on the available experimental evidence in cellular and rodent-models, athletes should remain wary of ingesting alcohol following intense exercise, focusing instead on effective dietary strategies proven to enhance recovery.

link to study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257708/

Another interesting summary is available at the following link though no sources were sited: http://oade.nd.edu/educate-yourself-alcohol/alcohol-and-athletes/#Nutrition

jenny3008

coachmike24fit wrote: »

If you are not seeing the scale move as desired you may want to look at more data such as, body fat percentage, lean muscle mass, girth/circumference measurements of waist, hips, chest, arms, thighs, calves. This will be help understand changes in body composition versus simply looking at weight. With the lean muscle mass and body fat percentage you can more accurately calculate basal metabolic rate and total daily energy expenditure.

Thanks coachmike I shall read those articles. My measurements have dropped considerably in the last year although I've not taken them in a couple of months. I'm trying to wean myself off constant weighing/measuring and basically getting upset that the weight isn't going down as I want it to. So with this 'fresh' new attitude I'm trying to appreciate how far I've come physically and look at the things I can achieve now that I couldn't 2 years ago. That being said I feel a bit slimmer and will be doing measurements in about a month.
My scales (withings) say I have 42% body fat, this hasn't changed much in 3 years despite dropping 10kg and losing 6" from my hips. I'm not convinced it's accurate. I'm 5'6" and 81-82kg it seems a very high %age to me. I don't know how to calculate lean muscle mass

coachmike24fit

There are some online calculators I'm sure to calculate lean muscle mass but the formula is as follows: Weight - ((Weight X body fat) / 100). For you it would be 81.5 - ((81.5x42)/100) = 47.27kg. This equation does not take into consideration bone mass which is likely around 2.95kg. This would put your lean muscle mass around 44.32kg. Your meal plan targets should encompass this number. Definitely get a second reading on the body fat percentage either through BIA, skinfold, or under water submersion by someone certified/trained to do it.

Congrats on your results thus far but I would be frustrated and upset as well if this is total progress in past 1-2yrs . I don't know your back history but I have far greater expectations for my clients. Your diary isn't public so I have no idea what your nutrition looks like but I would start there and if you have a trainer I would stop paying them or pay them for every 2% of body fat lost, or find another trainer. Not trying to be crude but a trainer's job is Safety 1st and CLIENT RESULTS.

Noelv1976

If you're seriously thinking about losing weight, I wouldn't drink it.

jenny3008

coachmike24fit wrote: »

There are some online calculators I'm sure to calculate lean muscle mass but the formula is as follows: Weight - ((Weight X body fat) / 100). For you it would be 81.5 - ((81.5x42)/100) = 47.27kg. This equation does not take into consideration bone mass which is likely around 2.95kg. This would put your lean muscle mass around 44.32kg. Your meal plan targets should encompass this number. Definitely get a second reading on the body fat percentage either through BIA, skinfold, or under water submersion by someone certified/trained to do it.

Congrats on your results thus far but I would be frustrated and upset as well if this is total progress in past 1-2yrs . I don't know your back history but I have far greater expectations for my clients. Your diary isn't public so I have no idea what your nutrition looks like but I would start there and if you have a trainer I would stop paying them or pay them for every 2% of body fat lost, or find another trainer. Not trying to be crude but a trainer's job is Safety 1st and CLIENT RESULTS.

Thanks for that.

I do have to defend my PT though, he is really very good and the weight/%age fat changes just do not do justice to how much more physically strong I am. I have a hypermobility condition which means that none of my bones hold together the way they should. When I started this journey I was at the osteopath every 2 months for 2-3 weekly sessions having my spine straightened. Now its more like every 8 months for a maintenance visit, even my osteopath has commented that its like working on a different body.
I couldn't do press ups against the wall, couldn't shoulder press the empty machine with no weights on it, squatting and lunging was just an exercise in how to fall over and if I pushed really hard I could hold a half plank for 7-10 seconds. A half mile walk would throw my back out. Even day to day things like making a bed and vaccumming were problematic.

I'm still rubbish at planking but in every other way I'm stronger and fitter. I just completed a 10k xrunner ( tough mudder) type event, I can deadlift 85kg, I'm managing back and front squats, shoulder presses and can generally walk a lot further 6+ miles at a time. (although my condition does cause my feet to blister badly)

All of this is down to the hard work and perseverance of my PT finding ways to work round my joints and find ways for me to work the muscles and strengthen the tendons and ligaments too.

I'm also down from a large UK size 16 to a large UK size 12 ( 14 are too big, 12 are slightly tight)

He does give me generalised nutrition tips, high protein, plenty of veg, low processed starch, sugars that kind of thing and has always advised not drinking alcohol but I enjoy it. I can open my diary but I think in general my nutrition is ok. Apart from this weekend when I had a bit of a crumpet thing going on. But they were good

I guess I have to take the slow progress as a consequence of this but I am honestly surprised at how much it slows the progress even when its included in my weekly calorie allowance.