Running a Marathon
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SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »Ignore brolympus there is just so much myth in his post. The studies he is quoting have numerous problems with their methodology and have been taken apart in many places by some very knowledgeable people.There are some very good peer reviewed studies showing that running actually strengthens your knees (a good one from the Australian Institute of sport is well worth looking out) and that those who get problems would have got them whether they ran or not
Yes it can be done as long as your aim is just to finish. Lots of people will tell you horror stories but lots of people will tell you of very successful stories. There is no reason that if you do it right you cant have a very successful and enjoyable first experience as long as you do it right. I'd recommend looking at one of the Hal Higdon Novice training plans (just use google
How about you actually show the studies then? Here is another. American College of Cardiology. The actual paper is tedious, but the news story has the link to it if you want to read it: http://bbc.com/news/health-31095384
I had a feeling you would trot this debunked article out.
"This is a small study, particularly when it comes to the people in the most active groups - only 36 were classified as "strenuous" joggers and just two of this group died.
So experts caution this makes it harder to detect and be confident of the differences between each group."
Next?
I'm not listening to someone who trained so foolishly hard that he injured his knees lol
In his early 20s. So since he injured his knees in 6 years of running that's probably the longest period of time anyone should ever run.
I'm sure we can't find anyone anywhere who has run more than 6 or 8 or 10 or 20 years and is still running and still healthy. They're practically non-existent. I mean, sure, there may be the odd outlier here or there but I bet there aren't more than a few million people who haven't destroyed their knees in less than 10 years of running.0 -
SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »Training2BeFast wrote: »I used to be a distance runner, so I will give you some pointers:
-You will be tempted to train too often. DO NOT DO THIS. You need to ramp up your mileage very gradually. Running distance is very hard on the joints and overused injuries are extremely common. You will not be running the full 26 mile distance ever during training. More than likely, you will be trying hit 15 miles at a face pace twice a week before your race. Running extreme distances is very hard on the body, and you can't sustain it forever. If this is your first marathon, plan on taking a couple breaks during the race to stretch and get hydrated so you don't injure anything or get salt-locked.
-Getting your running form correct + buying the right shoes will make or break your training. It will be the difference between getting overuse injuries 3 months in or continuing your training with minimal problems. There are tons of resources available to show you how to run at with low shock and least effort, watch lots of videos and emulate them. Most people have really bad running form, due to lack of calf strength, and slam their heel down first or run flat footed. Make sure your knee is not locked-out when your foot touches down, and your toe hits the ground slightly before the rest of your foot, this help absorb a lot of shock. It will almost feel like you are trying to run on tiptoes, your goal is to touch the ground as lightly as possible. It also helps to concentrate on pushing yourself forward instead of bouncing up as you run.
-Any distances you run over 5 miles, invest in some kind of water bladder (40oz+; more is better) to take with you on the run. They make minimalist bladders that are just a bag with straps and drinking hose for pretty cheap (no giant backpack or anything like that).
I do not endorse distance running (anything over 3 miles, or more than 10 miles per week) as sustainable lifestyle. There are a ton of studies showing that distance runners have shorter lifespans than other athletes because it is so hard on the body. It literally kills you: http://active.com/health/articles/why-too-much-running-is-bad-for-your-health
I sustained permanent nagging knee injuries from distance running by the time I was 22 after 6 years of doing races. Doing one marathon to say you did it is totally fine! But definitely consider weight-training and moderate cardio a few times per week as your sustainable option after you complete your marathon.
REALLY DUDE ???????
Yeah really. Competitive racing all through high school and college. Not sure what to tell you guys. It is bad for your joints and is going to catch up to you sooner or later. Deny all you want.
It certainly caught up to that Ed Whitlock fella...
Smart-assness aside, would you happen to have some science on this to share? Or are we are to assume you did everything 100% right in your anecdote?
I already put two sources in other posts. Haven't seen any actual counter sources.
Some people have superior genetics dude, look at Olympic athletes, Arnie, or even Mr. Whitlock here. We are not all built equal. If you are genetically disposed to joint problems, arthritis, etc. distance running is going to make those show up very early in life. It also increases the risk of damage to cartilage, ligaments, etc.. It doesn't guarantee it, but it greatly increases the chance. If you have ever talked to somebody who has damaged the cartilage in a joint, they will be the first to tell you there really isn't a whole lot you can do about it either. Cartilage heals minimally, if at all.
Some people are going to get lucky and will never have any problems, and they are the first to tote the praises of distance running and deny everything else. The vast majority are going to pick up some kind of permanent issue doing this type of running for more than a couple years, even following the best advice and training programs.
:laugh:0 -
SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »Training2BeFast wrote: »I used to be a distance runner, so I will give you some pointers:
-You will be tempted to train too often. DO NOT DO THIS. You need to ramp up your mileage very gradually. Running distance is very hard on the joints and overused injuries are extremely common. You will not be running the full 26 mile distance ever during training. More than likely, you will be trying hit 15 miles at a face pace twice a week before your race. Running extreme distances is very hard on the body, and you can't sustain it forever. If this is your first marathon, plan on taking a couple breaks during the race to stretch and get hydrated so you don't injure anything or get salt-locked.
-Getting your running form correct + buying the right shoes will make or break your training. It will be the difference between getting overuse injuries 3 months in or continuing your training with minimal problems. There are tons of resources available to show you how to run at with low shock and least effort, watch lots of videos and emulate them. Most people have really bad running form, due to lack of calf strength, and slam their heel down first or run flat footed. Make sure your knee is not locked-out when your foot touches down, and your toe hits the ground slightly before the rest of your foot, this help absorb a lot of shock. It will almost feel like you are trying to run on tiptoes, your goal is to touch the ground as lightly as possible. It also helps to concentrate on pushing yourself forward instead of bouncing up as you run.
-Any distances you run over 5 miles, invest in some kind of water bladder (40oz+; more is better) to take with you on the run. They make minimalist bladders that are just a bag with straps and drinking hose for pretty cheap (no giant backpack or anything like that).
I do not endorse distance running (anything over 3 miles, or more than 10 miles per week) as sustainable lifestyle. There are a ton of studies showing that distance runners have shorter lifespans than other athletes because it is so hard on the body. It literally kills you: http://active.com/health/articles/why-too-much-running-is-bad-for-your-health
I sustained permanent nagging knee injuries from distance running by the time I was 22 after 6 years of doing races. Doing one marathon to say you did it is totally fine! But definitely consider weight-training and moderate cardio a few times per week as your sustainable option after you complete your marathon.
REALLY DUDE ???????
Yeah really. Competitive racing all through high school and college. Not sure what to tell you guys. It is bad for your joints and is going to catch up to you sooner or later. Deny all you want.
It certainly caught up to that Ed Whitlock fella...
Smart-assness aside, would you happen to have some science on this to share? Or are we are to assume you did everything 100% right in your anecdote?
I already put two sources in other posts. Haven't seen any actual counter sources.
Some people have superior genetics dude, look at Olympic athletes, Arnie, or even Mr. Whitlock here. We are not all built equal. If you are genetically disposed to joint problems, arthritis, etc. distance running is going to make those show up very early in life. It also increases the risk of damage to cartilage, ligaments, etc.. It doesn't guarantee it, but it greatly increases the chance. If you have ever talked to somebody who has damaged the cartilage in a joint, they will be the first to tell you there really isn't a whole lot you can do about it either. Cartilage heals minimally, if at all.
Some people are going to get lucky and will never have any problems, and they are the first to tote the praises of distance running and deny everything else. The vast majority are going to pick up some kind of permanent issue doing this type of running for more than a couple years, even following the best advice and training programs.
So... Running too much, luck, or genetics? Pick one
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Ignore brolympus there is just so much myth in his post. The studies he is quoting have numerous problems with their methodology and have been taken apart in many places by some very knowledgeable people.There are some very good peer reviewed studies showing that running actually strengthens your knees (a good one from the Australian Institute of sport is well worth looking out) and that those who get problems would have got them whether they ran or not
Yes it can be done as long as your aim is just to finish. Lots of people will tell you horror stories but lots of people will tell you of very successful stories. There is no reason that if you do it right you cant have a very successful and enjoyable first experience as long as you do it right. I'd recommend looking at one of the Hal Higdon Novice training plans (just use google
How about you actually show the studies then? Here is another. American College of Cardiology. The actual paper is tedious, but the news story has the link to it if you want to read it: http://bbc.com/news/health-31095384
So the letter in the following issue citing a study of 37x as many participants that found no correlation between the upper end of exercise and cardiovascular disease doesn't count because it didn't make the news?
I'm sorry you can no longer compete like you used to in college but that is no reason to bring your negative attitude here. Over half a million people ran marathons in 2013, I don't see that many lining up for knee replacements.
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What the heck did this thread turn into?? What happened to the OP? Hope she went elsewhere to get sound guidance. Lord.0
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lbetancourt wrote: »What the heck did this thread turn into?? What happened to the OP? Hope she went elsewhere to get sound guidance. Lord.
She's getting sound advice here.
Training2befast, sonicdeathmonkey, and dave martinez are some the best people to turn to for running advice.
They're debunking the crap that brolympus is spewing.0 -
Join the long distance runner's group. Training2befast, SonicDeathMonkey, and Dave Martinez are great, plus you will get additional wisdom from CarsonRuns and one more Dave.
However, I am betting that all will tell you to ease up on the speed of achieving your goals--Marathon next year.0 -
perhaps. didn't see too much guidance tho just more bickering. you have to muddle through all of that. that's all.0
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and that's how you learn.lbetancourt wrote: »perhaps. didn't see too much guidance tho just more bickering. you have to muddle through all of that. that's all.
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Physiologically, there are lots of things that need to occur in the body for a comfortable marathon. I use the word comfortable loosely here, but I mean a marathon with reduced injury risk, a marathon that doesn't leave you debilitated, a marathon that will make you still love running even at mile 20:
Physiological adaptation of the body that improves marathon performance does not occur on shorter runs and it definitely does not occur on faster runs, even runs that are simply zone 3 will not be giving you the results you need to run comfortably longer.
The adaptations you need include increasing capillary beds, favoring neural pathways to lead to ease of running (nerves will begin to program pathways after repetitive action, running being one of the most studied motions where this happens), and - I think most importantly - adapting to the structural stress of running for 3+ hours. All of these occur when you run slower, longer.
You get other benefits from longer, slower runs-- increased calorie burn/weight loss and more a mental "I can do this" feeling as well. "If I can run 20, I can run 26.2" (most plans have 1 or more 20 mile runs...rarely a 22 for those experienced runners).
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I'd echo the recommendations to defer the ambition, and would ask what's imspiring you to try the distance?
fwiw I've been running regularly for 2 years now and using a plan justnow with the intent for my first marathon in August. This plan hasn't had anything less than 6 miles, so every run is longer than you've previously done. I do one or two short runs per week, and in the first week had a ten mile and a 13 mile run.
Essentially you're talking about a pretty challenging training effort.
Given the level that you're starting from I'd suggest that you're highly likely to injure yourself.
A half marathon should be easily achievable in the year, putting you in a reasonable place to tr for the marathon next year0 -
Hello!
I think you should go for it! It will take the right training (and running shoes!) to get prepared for this ambitious goal but I think you can do it!
I was a runner for a while then stopped. Over about 1 year I got back into working out and started doing 2-3 runs per week ranging from 30-50 min and then I decided to train for a marathon. I started a 20 week training plan, ran up to 16 miles then had an injury...took a break and worked my way up to 10 miles. Then race day came and I had the most amazing experience.
I do not understand when people say marathons are such a miserable experience filled with pain and frustration. I had very little pain and honestly I thought it was so much fun. I didn’t want it to end. At the end of 26.2 miles instead of dragging myself across the finish line I wanted to keep running! I read so many negative comments about marathons I wanted to share my positive experience with you. If you put your mind to it you can do anything, I say go for it! Good luck
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Here's the thing: I think people get easily allured by the goal of a marathon. I'll admit it: it's pretty alluring, and I was sucked in immediately after finishing my first half marathon. But my first marathon, I was just NOT a solid/strong runner and had no business to be running it.
By comparison, I want to do another marathon now, more than 10 years after crossing that first marathon finish line. But I don't want to just finish, I want to show that 26.2 whose boss! So I've been running 20-30 miles per week since last fall and am focusing on continuing that mileage through 2015, slowly upping it closer to the 40 mpw range. I am focusing on racing smaller distances of 5ks - half marathons. I am hoping to run my fourth full marathon sometime in 2016 - maybe as late as December 2016 after yes, months of just running mileage and developing as a runner. I'm also enlisting the help of a running coach at this time.
So do I think running a marathon is doable? Yes. My advice? Shoot for 2016 instead of 2015. Build your base, run some 5ks and maybe a half by the end of 2015. Build your endurance. Trust me, crying your way through 10-16 miles at the end of a marathon is NO FUN. BTDT! I think more people would enjoy the process if they prepared themselves mentally and physically as runners before just launching in.0 -
I echo the advice above about training smart and looking towards 2016 for the marathon.
I am up to 20 miles per week in my training and working on cracking 12 mile long runs every weekend. I am learning how taxing this is and the importance of being smart first, run farther later.
At these levels of miles I become aware of areas I need to work on. Hip and core strength, and even form. Yes, I can run the distance and do a half marathon, but a full would certainly lead to injury or days/weeks of extreme discomfort. Despite running regularly now for 8 months.
I am spending time, energy, and even money on building hip/core strength and correcting form. It is not easy. A simple 4 mile run becomes a lot harder when you are focused on increased cadence and form because you built up strength and endurance running it incorrectly before. Running it correctly starts out hard.
BUT...
If I can build up the strength and distance (with correct form) then I will sign up for a marathon this fall. But I must make sure I am ready first by prepping my body to run that kind of distance.
I imagine you may find similar hurdles. So prepare for them and allow time in your schedule to overcome them. Then determine when your marathon should be.
Just my advice.0 -
Hello!
I think you should go for it! It will take the right training (and running shoes!) to get prepared for this ambitious goal but I think you can do it!
I was a runner for a while then stopped. Over about 1 year I got back into working out and started doing 2-3 runs per week ranging from 30-50 min and then I decided to train for a marathon. I started a 20 week training plan, ran up to 16 miles then had an injury...took a break and worked my way up to 10 miles. Then race day came and I had the most amazing experience.
I do not understand when people say marathons are such a miserable experience filled with pain and frustration. I had very little pain and honestly I thought it was so much fun. I didn’t want it to end. At the end of 26.2 miles instead of dragging myself across the finish line I wanted to keep running! I read so many negative comments about marathons I wanted to share my positive experience with you. If you put your mind to it you can do anything, I say go for it! Good luck
You should play the lottery. Your experience is in the vast, vast minority. Consider yourself very lucky.0 -
Hello!
I think you should go for it! It will take the right training (and running shoes!) to get prepared for this ambitious goal but I think you can do it!
I was a runner for a while then stopped. Over about 1 year I got back into working out and started doing 2-3 runs per week ranging from 30-50 min and then I decided to train for a marathon. I started a 20 week training plan, ran up to 16 miles then had an injury...took a break and worked my way up to 10 miles. Then race day came and I had the most amazing experience.
I do not understand when people say marathons are such a miserable experience filled with pain and frustration. I had very little pain and honestly I thought it was so much fun. I didn’t want it to end. At the end of 26.2 miles instead of dragging myself across the finish line I wanted to keep running! I read so many negative comments about marathons I wanted to share my positive experience with you. If you put your mind to it you can do anything, I say go for it! Good luck
You should play the lottery. Your experience is in the vast, vast minority. Consider yourself very lucky.
Completely agree. A nice story, but hardly anything I would base a decision on given the "fluke" nature of it.0 -
Hey everyone!
So my ultimate fitness goal, besides losing weight, is to run the Ventura Marathon in September of this year. I have never ran a marathon, and the furthest I have ran at one time is 6 miles.
I haven't started training yet, but am wondering if someone who hasn't ran in quite some time (over 2 years), is from now until September enough time to train? While I did consider myself a runner at one time, I know since I haven't ran in so long that I am starting from scratch and a beginning runner. Would love some guidance and some help meeting my ultimate fitness goal!
Totally possible. Get some inspiration, a solid training plan and the right shoes. Research the shoes. Then research some more. Know your feet.
Inspiration:
Search youtube for "The Crawl Wendy Ingraham"
Plan:
Do some homework.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/marathon-challenge.html
Shoes:
Go to a good specialized running store.
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mojohowitz wrote: »Hey everyone!
So my ultimate fitness goal, besides losing weight, is to run the Ventura Marathon in September of this year. I have never ran a marathon, and the furthest I have ran at one time is 6 miles.
I haven't started training yet, but am wondering if someone who hasn't ran in quite some time (over 2 years), is from now until September enough time to train? While I did consider myself a runner at one time, I know since I haven't ran in so long that I am starting from scratch and a beginning runner. Would love some guidance and some help meeting my ultimate fitness goal!
Totally possible.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/marathon-challenge.html
Did you not read the thread?
Yeah, it's possible but those with years and thousands of miles under their belt are saying NOT to do it0 -
mojohowitz wrote: »Hey everyone!
So my ultimate fitness goal, besides losing weight, is to run the Ventura Marathon in September of this year. I have never ran a marathon, and the furthest I have ran at one time is 6 miles.
I haven't started training yet, but am wondering if someone who hasn't ran in quite some time (over 2 years), is from now until September enough time to train? While I did consider myself a runner at one time, I know since I haven't ran in so long that I am starting from scratch and a beginning runner. Would love some guidance and some help meeting my ultimate fitness goal!
Totally possible.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/marathon-challenge.htmlNARRATOR: Back on the course, things aren't going well for Steve, though he's spurred on by his daughter. His Achilles tendon is acting up. Pushed too far, an Achilles tendon can actually snap during a race.NARRATOR: Farther back is Sama, struggling through the same injuries that prevented her from ever running more than 16 miles.For Vera, Sama and the remaining NOVA team, running or walking, it's now just about finishing.
LOL sure, it's possible. Dumb, but possible.0 -
lishie_rebooted wrote: »mojohowitz wrote: »Hey everyone!
So my ultimate fitness goal, besides losing weight, is to run the Ventura Marathon in September of this year. I have never ran a marathon, and the furthest I have ran at one time is 6 miles.
I haven't started training yet, but am wondering if someone who hasn't ran in quite some time (over 2 years), is from now until September enough time to train? While I did consider myself a runner at one time, I know since I haven't ran in so long that I am starting from scratch and a beginning runner. Would love some guidance and some help meeting my ultimate fitness goal!
Totally possible.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/marathon-challenge.html
Did you not read the thread?
Yeah, it's possible but those with years and thousands of miles under their belt are saying NOT to do it
What do they know. They're on borrowed time. Another six months and they'll all have completely destroyed knees. Every single one of them.
I watched that episode of NOVA a while back. I seem to remember a lot of injuries in the participants and a lot of misery during the race. Again, no one is saying it can't be done. But just because you can doesn't mean you should.0
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