Dirty Bulk
MityMax96
Posts: 5,778 Member
Enjoyed this write up....covers some things I had wondered regarding the "eat anything in sight" when it comes to bulking.
http://cutandjacked.com/whats-wrong-with-dirty-bulking
http://cutandjacked.com/whats-wrong-with-dirty-bulking
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Replies
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Thanks!
ETA actually after reading it is very disappointing.0 -
Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.0 -
A "dirty" bulk doesn't just have to be burgers and chips, etc. The bodybuilding world is such a farce when it comes to information on "clean" bulking since many of the competitors are using PED's. And of course this has a huge effect on muscle growth.
It's okay to have a burger and some chips on occasion, especially if you're bulking. I've tried "clean" bulking when I was competing. My problem with it? I was eating every 2 hours and was always full. Even when I went into train. That hampered my workouts because certain exercises would make me want to vomit.
Don't get why people think that a "dirty" bulk is NOTHING but donuts, burgers and fries.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.0 -
beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
The article assumes eating a lot is eating stupid has one cherry picked reference about insulin insensitivity and then talks a lot about trans fats, who eats those now?
It's clearly just a biased blog.0 -
That's a big old "Thumbs Down" on that one.
As has been mentioned, sure - if all you're eating is ice cream and donuts, your bulk is gonna suck wind. But I don't believe I've ever heard of anyone actually doing that for a bulk - not anyone that's serious and has ANY sort of clue as to what they're doing.0 -
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^That's an awesome quote!0
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A "dirty" bulk doesn't just have to be burgers and chips, etc. The bodybuilding world is such a farce when it comes to information on "clean" bulking since many of the competitors are using PED's. And of course this has a huge effect on muscle growth.
It's okay to have a burger and some chips on occasion, especially if you're bulking. I've tried "clean" bulking when I was competing. My problem with it? I was eating every 2 hours and was always full. Even when I went into train. That hampered my workouts because certain exercises would make me want to vomit.
Don't get why people think that a "dirty" bulk is NOTHING but donuts, burgers and fries.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Same reason why they seem to believe that anyone following flexdieting/IIFYM is eating nothing but junk food and McD's all day long. It's easier for them to tear up a strawman than actually address something that tells them that their self-impossed suffering isn't necessary.0 -
beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!0 -
beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
I would agree with this...
The article seems to take the two extremes - massive dirty bulk vs 100% clean eating, and then ignore the middle ground, which is that you can eat some ice cream, bagels, donuts, etc, hit your macro/micro/calorie targets and progress towards your goal...0 -
I am more disturbed that this is going to continue the confusion around what it means to bulk "clean" versus "dirty" as compared to eating "clean." Sigh.0
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I am more disturbed that this is going to continue the confusion around what it means to bulk "clean" versus "dirty" as compared to eating "clean." Sigh.
Ironically, I "clean" bulked eating (what some would consider) incredibly "dirty" foods on a consistent basis.I am more disturbed that this is going to continue the confusion around what it means to bulk "clean" versus "dirty" as compared to eating "clean." Sigh.
Even funnier, prior to learning about flexible dieting, back when I was a "clean" eater I was always pre-hypertensive with blood pressure and at a variety of risk factors with my health markers...
Having started a relaxed/flexible dieting lifestyle I am now in the best health of my life and back into normal ranges for BP.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!
I honestly don't care if y'all pile on or not.
I thought it was a good write up....not saying I agree with it all, but it does give one something to think about...
For me it was are certain things that go into foods possibly less than optimal at helping towards muscle growth/development/gains....
I still firmly believe that you hit your macros for your goals, and also make sure you get foods in you that are nutrient dense...
Then your remainder calories can be whatever you want to be, and how your body responds.
For me, I know I am better when my extra calories come from carbs rather than fat.....
So I think the point of his write up was to inform people that just eating whatever you want to bulk is not smart....you still want to be smart about what you take in....i.e. like that quote by Alan above....
But putting on to much body fat during a bulk will affect hormonal signaling....0 -
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I'm new here and so far most of the boards just seem like clean foods, bad foods.... Does it really matter. Some people might have a gluten allergy, stay away, some people might eat to many carbs, lower your intake, some people like a pear, who cares, it's like that saying "people see you stuffing your face full of mc d's, no body bats an eye, someone sees you eating a salad and everyone goes crazy!" Figure out what works for you and stick to it. If your having a problem reaching your goal then obviously something needs to change. You don't need somone elses approval to eat what you want. Listen to your body and move accordingly, it's like that stupid twinkie diet I seen on the news. You could do the same *kitten* with chicken, rice, apples hell even beer and ice cream, he ate at a caloric defict, I feel companies push that down our throats for sales.0
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Ok, let's have a case study of our own, no paper no garbage studies, you eat whatever candy bar you want, anything classified as candy, not protien bars, eat 5 a day for two months, no brushing your teeth now, we want to see quick side effects, and I'll eat five apples a day, then we'll meet back here and show out teeth to each other and see what's better. Btw, like I said I prefer pears cause for one kit Kat bar you eat, I can eat two pears and maybe some cherries, that's my reasoning what's yours?
umm I already do that and have no issues….although, I prefer gelato to candy bars and eat it daily ….0 -
Ok, let's have a case study of our own, no paper no garbage studies, you eat whatever candy bar you want, anything classified as candy, not protien bars, eat 5 a day for two months, no brushing your teeth now, we want to see quick side effects, and I'll eat five apples a day, then we'll meet back here and show out teeth to each other and see what's better. Btw, like I said I prefer pears cause for one kit Kat bar you eat, I can eat two pears and maybe some cherries, that's my reasoning what's yours?
umm I already do that and have no issues….although, I prefer gelato to candy bars and eat it daily ….
Whatever floats your boat...0 -
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Ok, let's have a case study of our own, no paper no garbage studies, you eat whatever candy bar you want, anything classified as candy, not protien bars, eat 5 a day for two months, no brushing your teeth now, we want to see quick side effects, and I'll eat five apples a day, then we'll meet back here and show out teeth to each other and see what's better. Btw, like I said I prefer pears cause for one kit Kat bar you eat, I can eat two pears and maybe some cherries, that's my reasoning what's yours?
Dental hygiene aside... that is the point, I can have one Kit kat to meet my goal. So easy. At the end of the day, I already had my fruit, met my fibre goals, I'm stuffed. Last thing I want to do is shove my face with a bunch of pears. That's a recipe for a tummy ache. Don't get me wrong, I love me some pears, but in that case Kit Kat > pears. At least I wake up the next day not feeling like a bloated mess, bulking is difficult enough.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!
I honestly don't care if y'all pile on or not.
I thought it was a good write up....not saying I agree with it all, but it does give one something to think about...
For me it was are certain things that go into foods possibly less than optimal at helping towards muscle growth/development/gains....
I still firmly believe that you hit your macros for your goals, and also make sure you get foods in you that are nutrient dense...
Then your remainder calories can be whatever you want to be, and how your body responds.
For me, I know I am better when my extra calories come from carbs rather than fat.....
So I think the point of his write up was to inform people that just eating whatever you want to bulk is not smart....you still want to be smart about what you take in....i.e. like that quote by Alan above....
But putting on to much body fat during a bulk will affect hormonal signaling....
Very true, and the last statement is very important for anyone who is thinking of the GFH bulk.0 -
Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...0 -
jenglish712 wrote: »Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...
Now you've put a picture into my head!0 -
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jenglish712 wrote: »Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...
Yea, it's just you buddy
Nope, now Wheelhouse pictures it too.
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jenglish712 wrote: »Does anybody else ever read the term "Dirty Bulk" and picture a huge crate of pornography at Costco?
No? Really... Maybe just me then...
Honestly, that was my first thought
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Oh - and no profanity.
Geez, guys. Keep it on topic, I'm begging you.
Davis0 -
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.
2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting
Please stay on-topic in an existing thread, and post new threads in the appropriate forum. Taking a thread off-topic is considered hi-jacking. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting. This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.
Oh - and no profanity.
Geez, guys. Keep it on topic, I'm begging you.
Davis
This honestly was not needed here....
I personally don't feel insulted...0 -
This content has been removed.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »beastcompany wrote: »Problem #1, he is speaking in extremes, and also idealizing foods in their individual context as "healthy" or "unhealthy".
All of which is idiotic when it comes to considering a dietary approach to either phase of training (bulking or cutting).
The fact of the matter is that any food in it's individuality (meaning outside of your overall day's intake) is making NO DIRECT IMPACT on body composition or the results of your progress.
Extremes in any sense are a terrible way to discuss dieting. Yes, obviously is someone is doing nothing but eating Krispy Kremes and balancing it with protein shakes to hit their macros & calories...they're likely going to have a very deficient diet that is going to cause problems.
Vice-Versa, if someone is eating nothing but chicken, rice, and brocolli every damn meal they are also going to be very deficient and have health issues.
This. I find the more balance discussions of flexible dieting more applicable to general people. Few people I've seen post that you can eat 100% of anything and be healthy (until page 10 of a sugar debate).
It seems that most bulkers (at least that I've seen post here) focus on getting nutrient dense food and supplementing remaining calories with calorie dense foods that may be lacking nutrients. This balances to a well rounded overall diet.
I eat a lot of broccoli, cauliflower, oats and chicken as do most flexible dieters who are bulking here. I think the flexible/IIFM eaters are eating pretty similar for the vast majority of their foods as the clean eaters.
ETA Max, I hope you don't take it like we are piling up on you. I always enjoy your posts!
I honestly don't care if y'all pile on or not.
I thought it was a good write up....not saying I agree with it all, but it does give one something to think about...
For me it was are certain things that go into foods possibly less than optimal at helping towards muscle growth/development/gains....
I still firmly believe that you hit your macros for your goals, and also make sure you get foods in you that are nutrient dense...
Then your remainder calories can be whatever you want to be, and how your body responds.
For me, I know I am better when my extra calories come from carbs rather than fat.....
So I think the point of his write up was to inform people that just eating whatever you want to bulk is not smart....you still want to be smart about what you take in....i.e. like that quote by Alan above....
But putting on to much body fat during a bulk will affect hormonal signaling....
My real problem with the post was that he seemed to start off talking about two different things, but didn't really address both separately, and so it got kind of jumbled.
Starting off the points were:- Don't eat 10,000 calories a day, you'll put on too much fat.
- Don't eat solid crap, get a balance of foods so you can still get your daily nutrients.
And I'd agree with both of those points. But even though that's how it started out, the combination of the two seemed to lead to a weird extreme that didn't seem to get the message across as well as I would have liked. But, they are both points I think need to be made; I just wish each had been addressed individually.0
This discussion has been closed.
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