Literally cant understand what more i can do
Replies
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trust me, i dont believe in eating more to lose weight, it literally doesnt make sense,
It does if you consider that the cals out side of the energy balance equation is affected by the cals in side.
To maintain your weight your food intake should equal your calories out (TDEE.) So, if I utilise 3000 calories worth of energy per day then I should eat 3000 calories. Therefore, if I eat 1,500 calories per day for 7 days I should lose weight at a quick rate (or on a strictly mathematical basis 1.5lbs per week.)
This would work if i wasn't for the fact that TDEE is rarely static and interdependent on calories in. Your body craves homeostasis and will therefore reduce the elements which make up cals out (BMR/TEF/TEA/NEAT) in a myriad of ways meaning the deficit you believe you are creating is actually much less than you realise. The sharper and more sudden the drop in cals in greater the knock on effect on cals out. From my understanding it isn't the slowing of RMR that is the real issue rather than a fall in daily activity and greater efficiency of movement which is the problem.
It's not so much about eating "more" as it is about finding a sweet spot: cals low enough that noticeable fat loss occurs bit not so low it creates an inefficient fat loss environment.
Unfortunately the eat more to lose more mantra is very poorly explained or misapplied, usually by the very people who purport to understand it leading to some eyebrowing raising conclusions (such as you can see a net gain in fat on a deficit - you can't - but weight can increase mainly due to water retention which is especially problematic in low calorie dieting.)
Much more reasonable. This is why leangains will have you on a net deficit of 250-500.
Muscle loss needs to be minimized as well.0 -
as far as your pure scientist comment... well, the body is not a perfectly efficient machine that can be measured exactly. you fuel it for basic functions, and for training, and it also expels waste... so sometimes you need to eat more!! let your body take care of itself.
as far as your training goes, 5 side football and rugby is awesome. i know it can be very demanding on the body. but for your gym training, what are you doing?? you only list legs and upper body. that doesn't tell me any thing. thats not even a list of body parts, thats just listing a region. are you following a program like 5/3/1 or strong lifts? are you progressing a little bit each week? do you keep a log so you can go back to the rack/machine and get stronger, or are you doing the same weight every week?
i cycle my workouts with 2 weeks on a program consisting of
day 1
3 chest exercises moderate weight/ high reps
3 shoulder "
3 arm "
3 back "
day 2
squats "
RDL's "
leg press "
leg curls "
calf raises
i always finish my workout with 3*12 super sets of pull ups/ tri dips
i do the above on alternate days 5 days a week for 2 weeks
then week 3 i do heavy lifts,
day 1 squat-max
day2 rest
day 3 bench-max
day 4 rest
day 5 dead lifts -max
That's too much on a deficit. Don't make the mistake I made! Wish I could go back and reduce volume to something reasonable for being on a reduced cals and having, therefore, reduced ability to recover. I lost lots of muscle.0 -
thats why im so sceptical of the eat more theory,
i am a pure scientist and matter can only change form, not be created from nothing.
i know the purists on here would say that higher calories= more enegry available for harder training which in turn = higher results acheived because of the fuel available
but that at best is a bell curve...
But if you put all that aside...if you COULD lose weight, while eating more.....wouldn't you do it?!?! I mean, based on science, just eat nothing at all. But that's crazy. That's the problem with science sometimes...it makes sense in the real-world portion of the application...but you can extrapolate to ridiculous degrees...such as "eat nothing" or to the other extreme "eat all the things!". Just figure out what your body needs for : vital organs, daily activity, muscle, exercise....then subtract about 10% from that and try eating it for a month. It might not be much, but you should lose on that deficit in one month's time. Let your system know that it no longer needs to juggle energy sources to/from muscles to supply vital organs and the energy expenditure that you are forcing on it--that it can use food for energy first and still not rob the vital organs because the food will keep coming.0 -
as far as your pure scientist comment... well, the body is not a perfectly efficient machine that can be measured exactly. you fuel it for basic functions, and for training, and it also expels waste... so sometimes you need to eat more!! let your body take care of itself.
as far as your training goes, 5 side football and rugby is awesome. i know it can be very demanding on the body. but for your gym training, what are you doing?? you only list legs and upper body. that doesn't tell me any thing. thats not even a list of body parts, thats just listing a region. are you following a program like 5/3/1 or strong lifts? are you progressing a little bit each week? do you keep a log so you can go back to the rack/machine and get stronger, or are you doing the same weight every week?
i cycle my workouts with 2 weeks on a program consisting of
day 1
3 chest exercises moderate weight/ high reps
3 shoulder "
3 arm "
3 back "
day 2
squats "
RDL's "
leg press "
leg curls "
calf raises
i always finish my workout with 3*12 super sets of pull ups/ tri dips
i do the above on alternate days 5 days a week for 2 weeks
then week 3 i do heavy lifts,
day 1 squat-max
day2 rest
day 3 bench-max
day 4 rest
day 5 dead lifts -max
That's too much on a deficit. Don't make the mistake I made! Wish I could go back and reduce volume to something reasonable for being on a reduced cals and having, therefore, reduced ability to recover. I lost lots of muscle.
im not fussed about losing muscle, my lean mass is 89kg (body pod) so im pretty heavy in muscle as it is, what i cant understand is the current weight gain on a deficit.
i like to train hard0 -
i do have the discipline to eat the same thing in repetition, so i might try that, may be that theres something im missing,
but were talking about a 2000 calories error.
not sure that can be right,
I would bet that you do indeed have a 2000 calories error.
Just by looking at your log, you are very inconsistent with logging in your food.
You need to log in everything everyday. Even the cream in your coffee has to be logged in.
Do you have a food scale? If not, get one. Unless, it's "packaged food" with the nutrition label on it, you need to weigh everything you eat.
On your activity level, do you have MFP set to "Sedentary"? If you are going to log in your exercise, you need to set the the activity level to sedentary otherwise you are "double dipping". Example: If you put your activity level as "active" or "very active", it is already taking your "exercise activities" into account. You are not supposed to be adding on the extra calories gained from exercise.
The amount of calorie burn is generally overestimated on the MFP data base. Someone above posted that he only ate back 3/4 of his calories (pretty good idea). You might even want to eat even less than that (Maybe 1/2).
For whatever reason, you are NOT in a calorie deficit.
99% of the time, it is underestimating your calorie intake and overestimating your calorie burn.0 -
Yeah, having looked at the OP's diary I'm going to modify my original advice. Log accurately and completely, and eat what MFP tells you to based on those accurate logs. Undershooting your calorie goal is as bad as overshooting for weight loss.
Also, eat more protein. LBM in pounds = 0.75-1.0 grams of protein per day is for someone trying to build muscle. You should be OK on less than that if you're not looking to build LBM, so maybe 0.5g-0.6g, or around 100g a day. Nothing to stop you eating more if you want to.
With comparatively few pounds to lose, you want probably 0.5-1lb/week loss, or 250-500 cal per day deficit averaged out over the week.
You could also check out the In Place Of A Roadmap thread for more explanations: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/912920-in-place-of-a-road-map-3-20130 -
as far as your pure scientist comment... well, the body is not a perfectly efficient machine that can be measured exactly. you fuel it for basic functions, and for training, and it also expels waste... so sometimes you need to eat more!! let your body take care of itself.
as far as your training goes, 5 side football and rugby is awesome. i know it can be very demanding on the body. but for your gym training, what are you doing?? you only list legs and upper body. that doesn't tell me any thing. thats not even a list of body parts, thats just listing a region. are you following a program like 5/3/1 or strong lifts? are you progressing a little bit each week? do you keep a log so you can go back to the rack/machine and get stronger, or are you doing the same weight every week?
i cycle my workouts with 2 weeks on a program consisting of
day 1
3 chest exercises moderate weight/ high reps
3 shoulder "
3 arm "
3 back "
day 2
squats "
RDL's "
leg press "
leg curls "
calf raises
i always finish my workout with 3*12 super sets of pull ups/ tri dips
i do the above on alternate days 5 days a week for 2 weeks
then week 3 i do heavy lifts,
day 1 squat-max
day2 rest
day 3 bench-max
day 4 rest
day 5 dead lifts -max
That's too much on a deficit. Don't make the mistake I made! Wish I could go back and reduce volume to something reasonable for being on a reduced cals and having, therefore, reduced ability to recover. I lost lots of muscle.
im not fussed about losing muscle, my lean mass is 89kg (body pod) so im pretty heavy in muscle as it is, what i cant understand is the current weight gain on a deficit.
i like to train hard
You have to decide between what you like, and what you want.
I went with hard training too, and it slowed down my progress.
Next cut, I am going to reduce my training and focus on stimulating the muscle just enough to minimize muscle loss and maintain strength.0 -
as far as your pure scientist comment... well, the body is not a perfectly efficient machine that can be measured exactly. you fuel it for basic functions, and for training, and it also expels waste... so sometimes you need to eat more!! let your body take care of itself.
as far as your training goes, 5 side football and rugby is awesome. i know it can be very demanding on the body. but for your gym training, what are you doing?? you only list legs and upper body. that doesn't tell me any thing. thats not even a list of body parts, thats just listing a region. are you following a program like 5/3/1 or strong lifts? are you progressing a little bit each week? do you keep a log so you can go back to the rack/machine and get stronger, or are you doing the same weight every week?
i cycle my workouts with 2 weeks on a program consisting of
day 1
3 chest exercises moderate weight/ high reps
3 shoulder "
3 arm "
3 back "
day 2
squats "
RDL's "
leg press "
leg curls "
calf raises
i always finish my workout with 3*12 super sets of pull ups/ tri dips
i do the above on alternate days 5 days a week for 2 weeks
then week 3 i do heavy lifts,
day 1 squat-max
day2 rest
day 3 bench-max
day 4 rest
day 5 dead lifts -max
That's too much on a deficit. Don't make the mistake I made! Wish I could go back and reduce volume to something reasonable for being on a reduced cals and having, therefore, reduced ability to recover. I lost lots of muscle.
im not fussed about losing muscle, my lean mass is 89kg (body pod) so im pretty heavy in muscle as it is, what i cant understand is the current weight gain on a deficit.
i like to train hard
first, a body pod isn't very accurate. i'm sure it's close, but who knows.
and there is training hard, and then their is training smart. a good lifting session should be one or two heavy sets of the barbell lifts, then 2-4 assistance exercises. your work outs are a little all over the place. almost as if you are trying to figure out what works, and hoping something eventually does.
i understand where you are coming from. i used to think a gym session wasn't worth it unless i was exhausted and i had hit every machine and muscle group. but i learned that that shouldn't be like that. you need to leave a little gas in the tank.
have you ever researched strength programs like jim wendlers 5/3/1? he advocates lifting four days a week; overhead press, dead lift, bench press, squat. after each main lift, you do a few assistance lifts depending on your energy level, and areas you want to target.
now, that might be a little much for you, consider all the team sports you do. he does show how to split his work outs into three or even two days a week, specifically for people that don't have time to train or are in-season for sports.
and the best part of this program? he designed it after years of trial and error because he wanted to have big powerful lifts AND be able to run and play team sports.0 -
i have seen the 5/3/1 its one of the programs recommended by T-nation and various other power lifting groups, im not looking to build muscle,
i train on a low weight high rep programme for tonning and maintaining strength, with the heavy week variation to ensure im making progress
as for the body pod ,
The BOD POD is the gold standard for body composition testing. It is one of the best ways to accurately measure your lean mass and fat mass, and also provides resting metabolic rate (the number of calories your body needs to support its basic functions) and Total Energy Expenditure (the number of calories you need to make it through your day).
http://recsports.berkeley.edu/fitness-wellness/health-safety/classes-services/body-fat-testing/
so, if your not sure about accuracy i would recommend a body pod.... haha0 -
Low weight, high rep = there's your first problem. That's useless. It won't help maintain less mass, nor will help build new mass. "Tone" is a combination of actual musle and lower body fat; that's it.. Don't worry about accidentally building muscle...it isn't exactly easy. If it were easy, everyone would be strong and actually muscular.
You're not accidentally in starvation mode- you're just being lazy with your tracking, not measuring things with a scale/cup, and eating over your needed calories (probably also by 'eating back' calories that MFP overestimates you burned during your ineffective workout sessions).
Buckle down on your food intake, stick to a solid lifting program, and continue on your way to sucecss.0 -
If you're looking to maintain muscle, there's almost certainly a more efficient way of doing it than your current regime. The ratio (from either Mehdi or Rippetoe, I forget which) is you need a third of the work to maintain as you do to build. So I'd suggest that a couple of sessions of heavy compounds lifts a week would be more than adequate to maintain your existing muscle. And the beauty of a well-structured set of compound lifts (Rippetoe, Wendler, Mehdi) is that they hit every major muscle group, so unless you're a body builder or really, really like isolation work, they're pretty much all you need. Assistance/accessories are optional, but can be added if you wish,0
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i have seen the 5/3/1 its one of the programs recommended by T-nation and various other power lifting groups, im not looking to build muscle,
i train on a low weight high rep programme for tonning and maintaining strength, with the heavy week variation to ensure im making progress
you should be. muscle has this awesome quality that helps burn fat, which is what makes you looked more toned. trust me, thos body builders that you see don't happen by accident, or overnight or whatever. it takes years of training and training and disciplined eating.
look at your favorite rugby and football players. they lift heavy. trust me. no no, they don't MAX OUT BEAST MODE on all their lifts. they hit their barbell lifts heavy, and hit their assistance work at medium. Three sets of 10-20 reps is great for things like leg curls, dips, push ups, pull ups, good mornings, hyper extensions, etc.
for the person that said low weight high reps doesn't do anything, i hope you are thinking of like, 5lb weights and 50 reps. because let me tell you, doing five sets of my 50% max on my squats (105 lbs) for 10-20 reps is a great way to build muscular endurance and burn fat.0 -
and man, didn't you just say before "i like to train hard"? and then you say you don't want to build muscle??? what a contradiction!!!0
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I'm guessing that there are a few things here that need tweaking:
1) your calorie burns appear to be estimated by MFP - which are usually REALLY high compared to actual burns from an HRM - there is no exact science but MFP estimates are always REALLY REALLY high
2) you're not eating enough - check out In Place of a Road Map and figure out, as many have mentioned, your TDEE and BMR.0 -
How are you measuring your food portions? Are you just eyeballing them or are you actually weighing/measuring them? If not start measuring and weighing your food.0
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You're not accidentally in starvation mode- you're just being lazy with your tracking, not measuring things with a scale/cup, and eating over your needed calories (probably also by 'eating back' calories that MFP overestimates you burned during your ineffective workout sessions).
Buckle down on your food intake, stick to a solid lifting program, and continue on your way to sucecss.
This is probably the best advice for your situation, and the easiest for you to follow. Still get some tests to rule out any medical issues, but I'd place money on the issue being under-logging and over-eating.0 -
I'm guessing that there are a few things here that need tweaking:
1) your calorie burns appear to be estimated by MFP - which are usually REALLY high compared to actual burns from an HRM - there is no exact science but MFP estimates are always REALLY REALLY high
2) you're not eating enough - check out In Place of a Road Map and figure out, as many have mentioned, your TDEE and BMR.
Point 1 ISN'T always correct. I distrusted MFP estimates, given my received wisdom from the MFP noticeboards. I bought a decent HRM - MFP's estimates of my calorie burn are very close to the HRM readings (slightly lower - by the time I've deducted my BMR from the HRM reading they're so close as to make no practical difference). :ohwell:
Anyone in the market for a Polar HRM, secondhand, little used? Lol.
Of course the MFP estimates are based on averages and therefore they're not going to be correct for everyone (and incidentally likley not for our fit, hard-exercising person here), but that does not mean that they are going to be totally unreliable for anyone.0 -
i do weigh my food, or use the weights on the packaging if im eating the whole packet.
i dont believe MFP is accurate with calories exerted.
the reason i dont want to build muscle is that im already 89KG of lean mass with 27kg of fat, if the muscle was so good, shouldnt i be burning fat like nobodies business?
i really appreciate all the feedback though, im still not 100% sure the next line of attack, but i think im going to go for eating cleanly (or more cleanly) cut out the processed foods completely,
if anyone wants to reccomend a food plan for me id be all ears, im pretty sure that 90% of any weight problem is food, exercise is a luxury if you can do it as people who arent able to move at all manage to lose weight but you do see people who exercise a lot overweight.0 -
Dont look at it like "Eat back ALL" Try a small change, icrease daily by 300, see what happens. thats what I did to get past my most recent plateau. I was eating around 1500, burning about 600-800 a day with exercise. weight just stopped coming off. i started eating 1800-2000 and it started to come off again.
*edit* MFP is for sure not correct on calories excreted. It does not take in to account what the body naturally uses as well. Like while awake we burn say 100 an hour from being alive. We do an hour of something enter it in to MFP it says 300 burned, its actually 200. It also just seems way off in general. Use a a machine at the gym with a HRM like an elliptic. The difference between what it says and what MFP says is staggering.0 -
Dont look at it like "Eat back ALL" Try a small change, icrease daily by 300, see what happens. thats what I did to get past my most recent plateau. I was eating around 1500, burning about 600-800 a day with exercise. weight just stopped coming off. i started eating 1800-2000 and it started to come off again.
*edit* MFP is for sure not correct on calories excreted. It does not take in to account what the body naturally uses as well. Like while awake we burn say 100 an hour from being alive. We do an hour of something enter it in to MFP it says 300 burned, its actually 200. It also just seems way off in general. Use a a machine at the gym with a HRM like an elliptic. The difference between what it says and what MFP says is staggering.
its about a 1/3rd of what mfp says, hence why im not eating them back0 -
How many hours of good sleep do you get a night?0
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How many hours of good sleep do you get a night?
usually 9 at least, i quite like my sleep, i know that can be a factor sometimes though0 -
stats: 23, male, 6ft, 106kg or 16st 10lbs waist 40, navel 38, hips 44, shoulders 46, neck 17,
BF (using body pod) 22%
lean mass 89kg
Ever stop to read what you wrote--you're missing 0ver 6 kg according to your 106kg weight--22% BF is 23.32 plus 89 kg of lean mass=112.32 All these folks trying to help you with the potentials and the math just didn't work. Start with accurately weighing yourself. I'm not a scientist but I'm pretty sure you can't have the numbers above--maybe your 21 pound weight gain is easier to understand when you measure with accuracy.0 -
i know, it doesnt make any sense,
unless im some kind of secret eater.
ive been sticking between 1400 and 1800 calories,
I believe that under 1800 is way too low for your height and build, try 1800-2000. Make sure you drinks lots of water...and what is your eating like?0 -
dude you should go vegetarian. makes you loose all kinds a weight!0
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If you can't manage to eat 4500 calories a day, I would say cut back on the cardio for sure.0
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It doesnt make sense really. Have you tried checking what your body fat % is?
i work out for at least an hour, 5-6 times a week, cardio and weights, I have not lost any weight for maybe 4 months. I do different exercises to try to 'trick' my body and generally eat properly. All i can explain mine as is that i used to starve myself and live on maybe 700 cals a day - I lost over 2 stone really quickly but as soon as i started eating again, ie enough to actually function properly, my body just hung on to every calorie.0 -
I eat 1800 calories per day and I'm 133 lbs (female), work out less than you, and I've been steadily losing! I'd bet money you need to eat more. Maybe it doesn't make sense logically, but since when has nature (and hormones) been logical? Please consider eating more.0
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