Treadmill HIIT question

kennie2
kennie2 Posts: 1,170 Member
edited November 12 in Fitness and Exercise
So I really want to get into HIIT rather than like spending 60 mins of elliptical every time
I tried it today doing 4 mins warm up at 5.5mph then 30 sec sprint at 8.0 followed by 5.5 rest, repeated 7 times with a 3 min cooldown at 5.5
Is this right?
Should i decrease my rest time and do more rounds?
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Replies

  • SweatLikeDog
    SweatLikeDog Posts: 320 Member
    Check out Craig Ballantyne on YouTube. He's got a bunch of interval routines.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    kennie2 wrote: »
    Is this right?

    What are you hoping to gain from it?

    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.

  • maxit
    maxit Posts: 880 Member
    kennie2 wrote: »
    Is this right?

    What are you hoping to gain from it?

    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.

    Can you please say more about that?
  • jennifershoo
    jennifershoo Posts: 3,198 Member
    kennie2 wrote: »
    Is this right?

    What are you hoping to gain from it?

    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.

    ?
  • kennie2
    kennie2 Posts: 1,170 Member
    kennie2 wrote: »
    Is this right?

    What are you hoping to gain from it?

    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.

    fat loss mostly, i dont currently have a hrm but when i did id go into mhr pretty easily so i think the sprints are definitely getting my heart close to mhr. im a girl so 8mph is about as fast as i can go. Im more wondering about the timing intervals
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.

    ?

    If 8mph is enough to be in the range where HIIT actually has an effect on fitness, then the individual isn't fit enough for that effect to be significant enough.

    Essentially 8mph is the pace that I'd consider to be a good 10Km pace, so sustained for about 45 minutes would give a result in the top third of the pack.

  • cheshirecatastrophe
    cheshirecatastrophe Posts: 1,395 Member
    Going from elliptical/zero running to sprints, straight out, is a pretty good recipe for injury. Normally you would want to build up running strength with some slower work before trying such an intense (relative to fitness level for everyone, I agree!) workout.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    kennie2 wrote: »
    fat loss mostly, i dont currently have a hrm but when i did id go into mhr pretty easily so i think the sprints are definitely getting my heart close to mhr. im a girl so 8mph is about as fast as i can go. Im more wondering about the timing intervals

    HIIT has a place in weight loss, but it's not the magic bullet that so many would have you believe.

    You'll get more benefit around fat loss from focussing on resistance training, with your CV work about building the aerobic base.

    I feel for you having to spend 60 minutes on the dreadmill, I can cope with about 10 minutes until I'm bored enough to tear my eyes out.
  • maxit
    maxit Posts: 880 Member
    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.

    ?

    If 8mph is enough to be in the range where HIIT actually has an effect on fitness, then the individual isn't fit enough for that effect to be significant enough.

    Essentially 8mph is the pace that I'd consider to be a good 10Km pace, so sustained for about 45 minutes would give a result in the top third of the pack.

    But what do you base your conclusion on? After I read what you wrote, I spent about a half hour searching the very question about who can benefit (including various experiments using folks who were classified as sedentary) and found absolutely nothing that indicated a lack of benefit. I did find a lot of material from fairly reputable sources that indicate that there needs to be a baseline of fitness for intervals to be safe. That is totally different than what you are suggesting.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    I am just not sure what makes you qualified to make the judgement for someone. The speed that might be good for you at long distance would not be the same for someone else.

    My point is that 8mph is the kind of pace that a credible runner would sustain for 45 minutes. So about 80%MHR.

    HIIT has an effect on VO2Max, but that effect isn't large. So if someone is hitting 95% MHR at 8mph then the improvements in their VO2Max are negligible. One will be getting more fitness improvement from longer mileage in the aerobic range, and threshold sessions in the 80% range.
    or am I missing something?

    Yes

    There are more effective ways to get the desired result.

    HIIT has a higher risk of injury, and if done properly is a once, perhaps twice, per week session. To get the desired results, whilst reducing the injury risk then it's more effective to do other things.

    60 minutes on an elliptical is never going to have much of an effect on fat loss. Spending that 60 minutes doing resistance training will improve bodyfat percentage by retainin lean mass.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited February 2015
    maxit wrote: »
    [....indicate that there needs to be a baseline of fitness for intervals to be safe....

    8mph for thirty seconds leading to a 95% MHR outcome is a low level of fitness.

    At that level the potential benefits are negligible compared to other ways to improve bodyfat percentage
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
    Low Intensity Steady State (HISS) cardio has as much place in anyone's fitness plan as HIIT running does. like others have said, you need to work on improving your cardiovascular endurance.

    your work out as described is 14 minutes long? i'm assuming 30 second rest because it wasn't clear to me if you stated that. but to answer your question, you need to be going longer or faster with each workout.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited February 2015
    I have been told day after day on here that my weight training does nothing for me, for example, in comparison to standing on the treadmill at a slow pace for an hour to burn calories and that I should not even count a calorie burn for it.

    Good gods, where would someone say that resistance training isn't beneficial?

    I generally wouldn't attribute any calorie expenditure to a resistance session as that's not really the point of the session, and in comparison to my CV work it's not that significant. Say 60 minutes of resistance work would give maybe 200 cals compared to 60 minutes of running which could reasonably give me 700 or 800 cals.

    fwiw even a sprint intervals session isn't much on the calorie expenditure. The sessions I do would be:
    • 15 minutes warm up - 150 cals
    • 200 metre or 400 metre repeats for 20 minutes - 200 cals
    • 15 minute cool down - 150 cals

    So the majority of the calorie expenditure comes from the warm up and cool down portions.

    What's described upthread is about 150-200 cals all in.

  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
    edited February 2015
    I am just not sure what makes you qualified to make the judgement for someone. The speed that might be good for you at long distance would not be the same for someone else.

    My point is that 8mph is the kind of pace that a credible runner would sustain for 45 minutes. So about 80%MHR.

    HIIT has an effect on VO2Max, but that effect isn't large. So if someone is hitting 95% MHR at 8mph then the improvements in their VO2Max are negligible. One will be getting more fitness improvement from longer mileage in the aerobic range, and threshold sessions in the 80% range.
    or am I missing something?

    Yes

    There are more effective ways to get the desired result.

    HIIT has a higher risk of injury, and if done properly is a once, perhaps twice, per week session. To get the desired results, whilst reducing the injury risk then it's more effective to do other things.

    60 minutes on an elliptical is never going to have much of an effect on fat loss. Spending that 60 minutes doing resistance training will improve bodyfat percentage by retainin lean mass.

    I just find it rather interesting the number of different opinions given on this site alone. I have been told day after day on here that my weight training does nothing for me, for example, in comparison to standing on the treadmill at a slow pace for an hour to burn calories and that I should not even count a calorie burn for it. Also, I have been doing hiit training with a max speed of 8-9 on a treadmill at an incline for months and have not injured myself and have lost 12 kilos in the process (I also spend 3 sessions doing weights as well for 90 minutes each usually followed by about 10 minutes of the treadmill sprints...sprints at my pace that is.

    this site has a lot of different people on it. you'll get people telling you that exercise isn't needed and you can lose weight by diet alone, some will tell you that you can dance it all away in zumba, or to ride a bike or run for hours, and some will tell you that you only need to lift weights and barbells are your friends.

    they're all correct.


    and those continuous HIIT sessions will eventually catch up with you.
  • kennie2
    kennie2 Posts: 1,170 Member
    I might just ask one of the PTs at the gym.... as to 0 running i can run about 5k but i just dont as i get suuupperrr bored hence why i normally use the elliptical as then i can watch a show or something. Also to the guy saying he can run steady at 8mph, thats nice but youre also a male and probably a lot taller.
  • cheshirecatastrophe
    cheshirecatastrophe Posts: 1,395 Member
    Can run, sure, the elliptical will give you the cardio shape. But have you been doing it consistently to build up the little muscles for running, is the question.
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    Can run, sure, the elliptical will give you the cardio shape

    Given that the HIIT intervals are pretty leisurely the HIIT session could probably be done on the elliptical as well. Would probably be a much wiser idea.
  • dlr165
    dlr165 Posts: 118 Member
    Gee, just found out that I am not a "credible runner."
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    OP, the benefits of strength training is not the calorie burns, it is the effect it has on retaining lean muscle in a deficit (of build it in a surplus), as well as getting stronger.
  • SkinnyGirlCarrie
    SkinnyGirlCarrie Posts: 259 Member
    kennie2 wrote: »
    I might just ask one of the PTs at the gym.... as to 0 running i can run about 5k but i just dont as i get suuupperrr bored hence why i normally use the elliptical as then i can watch a show or something. Also to the guy saying he can run steady at 8mph, thats nice but youre also a male and probably a lot taller.

    what does being a male and being tall have anything to do with it? i am sure there are plenty of ladies out there who can run at 8mph. you're a girl - you can run fast (if you train and want to) and lift heavy. don't limit yourself!

  • Problem with forums like this is the following: Everyone has opinions, Everyone has facts = Both of these are sorced from different places meaning they will be different. You have to find what suits you best, I have struggled with weight for 3-4 years, I have now figured out what suits me and I am now loseing weight.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    I am just not sure what makes you qualified to make the judgement for someone. The speed that might be good for you at long distance would not be the same for someone else.

    My point is that 8mph is the kind of pace that a credible runner would sustain for 45 minutes. So about 80%MHR.

    HIIT has an effect on VO2Max, but that effect isn't large. So if someone is hitting 95% MHR at 8mph then the improvements in their VO2Max are negligible. One will be getting more fitness improvement from longer mileage in the aerobic range, and threshold sessions in the 80% range.
    or am I missing something?

    Yes

    There are more effective ways to get the desired result.

    HIIT has a higher risk of injury, and if done properly is a once, perhaps twice, per week session. To get the desired results, whilst reducing the injury risk then it's more effective to do other things.

    60 minutes on an elliptical is never going to have much of an effect on fat loss. Spending that 60 minutes doing resistance training will improve bodyfat percentage by retainin lean mass.

    I just find it rather interesting the number of different opinions given on this site alone. I have been told day after day on here that my weight training does nothing for me, for example, in comparison to standing on the treadmill at a slow pace for an hour to burn calories and that I should not even count a calorie burn for it. Also, I have been doing hiit training with a max speed of 8-9 on a treadmill at an incline for months and have not injured myself and have lost 12 kilos in the process (I also spend 3 sessions doing weights as well for 90 minutes each usually followed by about 10 minutes of the treadmill sprints...sprints at my pace that is.

    You are confusing different advice and bringing the benefits of exercise purely down to the level of calorie burns.
    Someone telling you that walking for an hour may burn more than whatever very difficult to estimate calories your particular weight training routine does has nothing to do with the different fitness and body composition benefits of different kinds of exercise.

    My opinion is that HIIT can be great for some people, certainly time efficient, but its benefits are often over-stated and of dubious suitability to lots of people.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    edited February 2015
    Yes, well that might have been because the whole point of the orinigal question was to do with calorie burns/weight loss to begin with lol! I am aware that different things do different things for the body etc. The whole reason I initially came to the forum and thus got the advice I am talking about was in relation to calories in and calories out to put it simply = weight loss. I am not a weight trainer or a fitness model or trying to be either, I am a normal person who wants to tone up and loose fat/weight. All the other ins and outs, opinions, ideas, etc are really not much help if it if doesnt simply pertain to those goals and to be honest totally confuse me. Even people trained specifically in the fitness or diet fields give you totally different advice on what to do in the gym, how to do it, and what/when to eat. It is nuts!

    Do you not see that even using your terminology (bolded) that these are two different goals?
    One is a function of calorie balance (and exercise is very much the minor player in that equation) and the other is to do with strength and body composition.

    Personal context of course makes advice different - not everyone is here to lose weight for instance!
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    edited February 2015
    kennie2 wrote: »
    So I really want to get into HIIT rather than like spending 60 mins of elliptical every time
    I tried it today doing 4 mins warm up at 5.5mph then 30 sec sprint at 8.0 followed by 5.5 rest, repeated 7 times with a 3 min cooldown at 5.5
    Is this right?
    Should i decrease my rest time and do more rounds?

    That's actually a pretty good routine! Don't listen to the people criticizing it. Over time you can decrease rest time to 2 minutes. You can also set the treadmill to incline during your intervals. Even if you're not doing a true HIIT sprint interval, it's still a good interval workout and much more effective than LISS on an elliptical.

    One good piece of advice given above is that true sprint intervals do have a high rate of injuries. Definitely DO NOT GO BACK TO THE ELLIPTICAL. But consider doing true HIIT intervals (where you actually go all out) on an exercise bike instead. It's pretty much impossible to really go all out on an elliptical.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.

    ?

    If 8mph is enough to be in the range where HIIT actually has an effect on fitness, then the individual isn't fit enough for that effect to be significant enough.

    Essentially 8mph is the pace that I'd consider to be a good 10Km pace, so sustained for about 45 minutes would give a result in the top third of the pack.

    LOL, Ryan Hall runs a marathon at a 12.6mph pace. Therefore you're not ready to benefit from HIIT . . . .

    I've never seen any data saying that HIIT is not effective for beginners. In fact, most data suggests it's very effective for beginners.
  • Charliegottheruns
    Charliegottheruns Posts: 286 Member
    Interval Workouts are short, intense efforts followed by equal or slightly longer recovery time.
  • DjinnMarie
    DjinnMarie Posts: 1,297 Member
    kennie2 wrote: »
    Is this right?

    What are you hoping to gain from it?

    And fwiw you need to focus on improving the intensity rather than the time, if 8mph is getting you into the 95% MHR range you're not ready to benefit from HIIT.


    What? Are you implying that only fit people can benefit from HIIT?

    And running at 8 mph gets my heart rate up there. I have short legs and stride. Are you saying I don't benefit from HIIT?
  • DjinnMarie
    DjinnMarie Posts: 1,297 Member
    As for the OP question, I prefer to mix cardio and strength training for HIIT. Try mixing up compound movements with your sprinting. Push ups, pull ups, squats, running coupled with isolation lifts with lighter weight and higher reps. (Curls, calf raises, delt raises, chest flies, leg extensions, crunches etc.)
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    edited February 2015
    DjinnMarie wrote: »
    What? Are you implying that only fit people can benefit from HIIT?

    Not sure what's difficult to understand from the thread. If 8mph for 30 seconds is enough to be driving the HR level then the originator is going to get far more benefit from building the aerobic base.

    Without a credible aerobic base the benefits from HIIT are negligible.

    The originator clarified that she was interested in fat loss, so she's going to get far more benefit from other type of training. I've already suggested resistance training rather than long duration pootling along on the elliptical, though either of those will give far more benefit than HIIT.

    It's a question of relative effectiveness. In this instance resistance training > long diration low intensity CV > HIIT
    And running at 8 mph gets my heart rate up there. I have short legs and stride. Are you saying I don't benefit from HIIT?

    If you're sustaining 8mph for 45-50 minutes, then you'll get enough benefit to be worthwhile. At the other end of the spectrum, if you're sustaining 8mph for 30 seconds at a time then build the aerobic base.

    And fwiw at that pace leg length isn't a significant driver for speed. That's driven by leg power and cadence (pace frequency). If anything a shorter leg length helps sustain a higher cadence, which is beneficial.
  • ahamm002
    ahamm002 Posts: 1,690 Member
    edited February 2015
    Not sure what's difficult to understand from the thread. If 8mph for 30 seconds is enough to be driving the HR level then the originator is going to get far more benefit from building the aerobic base.

    Without a credible aerobic base the benefits from HIIT are negligible.

    I'm not sure where you're getting this from but it's wrong. Interval training is a great way for beginners to improve aerobic performance and increase VO2 max.
    The originator clarified that she was interested in fat loss, so she's going to get far more benefit from other type of training. I've already suggested resistance training rather than long duration pootling along on the elliptical, though either of those will give far more benefit than HIIT.

    It's a question of relative effectiveness. In this instance resistance training > long diration low intensity CV > HIIT

    Once again, I have no idea where you're getting this wrong information but please stop repeating it. In terms of exercise, sprint intervals are great for fat loss. They're been shown to be more effective than long duration low intensity cardio in numerous studies.

    Resistance training is also effective. But unless you're doing circuit training then it's probably not quite as effective for pure fat loss as true sprint intervals. But that's neither here no there. If the OP wants to burn fat then HIIT an effective way to do it. There is no reason to tell her she's doing it wrong when she isn't.
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