"The last 5 pounds are the hardest." Why?
cheshirecatastrophe
Posts: 1,395 Member
Not counting those who *choose* to slow down the last bit of desired weight loss, I see a lot of people post about how the last five pounds take forever or they are having so much trouble losing the last 5-10 pounds. Why?
Is it simply the transition from targeting 1 pound per week to .5 pound per week a la MFP settings? Is it difficulty adjusting to a reduced calorie intake? Less discipline now that you're almost there? Impatience? Or some funky biological mechanism that sounds like broscience but has research to back it up? (How would your body know?)
Is this slowdown true of any target weight, or only target rates on the lower end of normal BMI/body fat percentage?
Is it simply the transition from targeting 1 pound per week to .5 pound per week a la MFP settings? Is it difficulty adjusting to a reduced calorie intake? Less discipline now that you're almost there? Impatience? Or some funky biological mechanism that sounds like broscience but has research to back it up? (How would your body know?)
Is this slowdown true of any target weight, or only target rates on the lower end of normal BMI/body fat percentage?
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It's all of the above.0
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It is because you weigh less, so you have to work harder to lose. It takes less energy to move your body. An example I like to use is if a 300 lb man and a 160 lb man decided to lose weight, the 300 lb man will lose faster than the other guy. The body works harder if it is obese, because it TAKES more energy (calories) to move the body, so that 300 lb man will burn almost twice the calories in the same time frame as the other guy doing similar things (hr is same, effort is same) just because he is heavier. If you are close to your goal, you ARE the 160 lb man, and you WERE the 300 lb man.0
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RockstarWilson wrote: »It is because you weigh less, so you have to work harder to lose. It takes less energy to move your body. An example I like to use is if a 300 lb man and a 160 lb man decided to lose weight, the 300 lb man will lose faster than the other guy. The body works harder if it is obese, because it TAKES more energy (calories) to move the body, so that 300 lb man will burn almost twice the calories in the same time frame as the other guy doing similar things (hr is same, effort is same) just because he is heavier. If you are close to your goal, you ARE the 160 lb man, and you WERE the 300 lb man.
Mental note...
Buy a 50 lb weight vest...0 -
For me (as I'm currently kind of frustrated with the last 5 lbs):cheshirecatastrophe wrote: »Is it simply the transition from targeting 1 pound per week to .5 pound per week a la MFP settings?
I think this is part of it. It's more difficult to believe you are consistently losing because the loss is covered by fluctuations longer, so it feels like it takes even longer than it does.
And for me that kills some of the motivation which makes it easier to be more lax.
I'd also add that at this point I've been on a reduced calorie allotment for a year and am getting tired of it and in the last 5 lbs one is probably not feeling like it's that urgent (I'm happy with how I look, more interested in fitness goals, and more worried about losing muscle than the last bit of fat, all things which encourage me to be slow about it).Is this slowdown true of any target weight, or only target rates on the lower end of normal BMI/body fat percentage?
The psychological bit probably relies somewhat on you being happy enough at +5 lbs, but that's probably common wherever you place your goal. My guess is the exception is probably someone who starts close to goal and doesn't mind going low to get there (and isn't yet burnt out).
My guess is that if I take a break and go back to it the loss might be easier, but I guess I'll find out.0 -
dougpconnell219 wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »It is because you weigh less, so you have to work harder to lose. It takes less energy to move your body. An example I like to use is if a 300 lb man and a 160 lb man decided to lose weight, the 300 lb man will lose faster than the other guy. The body works harder if it is obese, because it TAKES more energy (calories) to move the body, so that 300 lb man will burn almost twice the calories in the same time frame as the other guy doing similar things (hr is same, effort is same) just because he is heavier. If you are close to your goal, you ARE the 160 lb man, and you WERE the 300 lb man.
Mental note...
Buy a 50 lb weight vest...
LOL!0 -
dougpconnell219 wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »It is because you weigh less, so you have to work harder to lose. It takes less energy to move your body. An example I like to use is if a 300 lb man and a 160 lb man decided to lose weight, the 300 lb man will lose faster than the other guy. The body works harder if it is obese, because it TAKES more energy (calories) to move the body, so that 300 lb man will burn almost twice the calories in the same time frame as the other guy doing similar things (hr is same, effort is same) just because he is heavier. If you are close to your goal, you ARE the 160 lb man, and you WERE the 300 lb man.
Mental note...
Buy a 50 lb weight vest...
Unless the 50 pounds of lead are also working to burn the calories you eat, though...
Thanks for your insight, everyone! I figured it was mostly a matter of perception, but the way it's talked about like a Scientific Rule I was curious.0 -
There are physiological reasons that the last bit of fat is the hardest. Google can help you out there.0
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dougpconnell219 wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »It is because you weigh less, so you have to work harder to lose. It takes less energy to move your body. An example I like to use is if a 300 lb man and a 160 lb man decided to lose weight, the 300 lb man will lose faster than the other guy. The body works harder if it is obese, because it TAKES more energy (calories) to move the body, so that 300 lb man will burn almost twice the calories in the same time frame as the other guy doing similar things (hr is same, effort is same) just because he is heavier. If you are close to your goal, you ARE the 160 lb man, and you WERE the 300 lb man.
Mental note...
Buy a 50 lb weight vest...
There's something to be said for that. When I was a kid, one of my chores was to carry feed sacks to the shed where we stored the feed. The sacks weighed right at 50 lbs and I might have had fifty yards to carry them. I remember breathing pretty heavy from doing that. (Though I eventually started carrying two at a time.) If a person were carrying around 50 extra pounds all day, it would burn quite a few calories.0 -
I think it's because they're trying to lose weight. They get tired, bored and fed up with their diet and exercise regimes. Truth is, I started losing weight properly by changing my lifestyle. Taking the stairs instead of the lift, staying under 1,200 kcals and choosing fruit over chocolate. I still allow myself the odd treat, but generally my eating habits are good. Trying to lose weight... or should I say "striving"? Is the worst thing to do and will mostly end up with the dieter yoyoing for the rest of their lives.
Think fit, think healthy and the rest will fall into place
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Could be a lot of reasons, but generally, as we approach our weight loss endpoint, the curve flattens out, i.e. the weight loss slows and eventually stops. I've lost 185 pounds, I had hope to weigh just under 200, but I've had to realize that my body wants me to weigh just over 200.0
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People don't want to put work into the diet and really looking at what they're eating...bottom line. It's the hard part people tend to skip over.
That's my opinion anyway.0 -
I didn't think it was harder. Just slower. By the time I was in the "last five pounds" mode last time around, I was focused more on progress photos and how clothes fit than the scale.0
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The last 5 is elusive because one day it's there and the next it's not. It's called normal daily weight fluctuation.0
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As you lose weight the amount of energy that your body needs to move about goes down.:
1) Less lean mass = you need less energy for day to day, anything else gets stored.
At lower weight and if you have been dieting longer, the adrenal/thyroid hormonal function modifies and one's metabolism adjusts. These adjustments also result in less non-exercise movement... hence less burn.
2) Metabolic adjustments = you need less energy for day to day, anything else gets stored.
At lower body fat levels - aside from significant metabolic adjustments, hunger signaling and protein substrate use for energy increase.
3) Increase hunger = harder to maintain deficit.
4) protein substrate recruitment leads to 1)
There are other elements but those are the primary ones.
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Without question it is definitely easier to lose when you are heavier and your body requirements change when you are thinner.
Most people can drop weight by eating more carefully but those last five pounds often require serious cardio and weight training and a more careful look at macros. I am a fairly frequent user of the gym, and I don't mind cardio but for me to get to my 'best' shape...I really have to kick it in high gear and I am just not willing to do that. 'My' best shape IMO is just not something I am prepared to do lifelong.0 -
Stroutman has a great thread on the subject. His first mention is the shrinking margin of error.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/737101/relatively-light-people-trying-to-get-leaner/p10 -
I'm within 5 lbs of goal now. I don't find it any harder, but it's possibly slower. One reason for me is that, if I stick to a minimum of 1200 calories per day, that will result in an estimated 0.4lb loss per week (according to MFP). For me, the less I weigh, the smaller the defecit I can have. When I weighed more, I could have a larger (yet still reasonable) deficit and still hit 1200 calories per day, which meant I could lose at a faster rate.0
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I dunno...I'm down to my last 7 and the scale has been all over the place for the past 2 weeks. I also started doing pilates so maybe that has something to do with it.
I guess my best advice would be to be extra diligent when it comes to logging your food, and to skip those occasional cheat/treat days.
I keep thinking "it's ok...I'm 55 pounds lighter than I was in July..." but knowing that my goal is so close and so hard to get to gets a bit depressing.0 -
Personally, it hasn't been a lack of discipline or not adjusting my calories for my lower weight. I've plateaued several times over the last few years, usually due to inaccuracy of some kind or eating maintenance on purpose (on holidays). With such a small deficit now (250 calories/day), accuracy is incredibly important since it's easy to eat away the deficit on accident. This last 4 or 5 month plateau, with 2 lbs to go, I've identified my problem to be eating out too much (at places with no nutritional information available) and overestimating burned exercise calories using an HRM. My heart rate tends run higher than normal during exercise, inflating my burns. I always suspected this, but after doing some research I came to this conclusion and decided to forgo my HRM and use online calculators. I've just started losing again.0
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WickedPineapple wrote: »Personally, it hasn't been a lack of discipline or not adjusting my calories for my lower weight. I've plateaued several times over the last few years, usually due to inaccuracy of some kind or eating maintenance on purpose (on holidays). With such a small deficit now (250 calories/day), accuracy is incredibly important since it's easy to eat away the deficit on accident. This last 4 or 5 month plateau, with 2 lbs to go, I've identified my problem to be eating out too much (at places with no nutritional information available) and overestimating burned exercise calories using an HRM. My heart rate tends run higher than normal during exercise, inflating my burns. I always suspected this, but after doing some research I came to this conclusion and decided to forgo my HRM and use online calculators. I've just started losing again.
I think this was my problem too. I had a birthday 2 weeks ago and between my boss taking me to lunch, my co-workers taking me to lunch, friends taking me out after work and a big family dinner all in the span of 2 weeks...well, thanksfully birthdays only come once a year!
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Diminishing returns. Same is true for building muscle, the more you have, the harder it is to add more.0
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WishesOnTheStar wrote: »Diminishing returns. Same is true for building muscle, the more you have, the harder it is to add more.
Yep... this!WickedPineapple wrote: »Personally, it hasn't been a lack of discipline or not adjusting my calories for my lower weight. I've plateaued several times over the last few years, usually due to inaccuracy of some kind or eating maintenance on purpose (on holidays). With such a small deficit now (250 calories/day), accuracy is incredibly important since it's easy to eat away the deficit on accident. This last 4 or 5 month plateau, with 2 lbs to go, I've identified my problem to be eating out too much (at places with no nutritional information available) and overestimating burned exercise calories using an HRM. My heart rate tends run higher than normal during exercise, inflating my burns. I always suspected this, but after doing some research I came to this conclusion and decided to forgo my HRM and use online calculators. I've just started losing again.
And this!
I am transitioning from being on maintenance for the past 4 weeks and creating a small deficit off a changed BMR and TDEE to lose my last pounds. My exercise has increased so this will be a slow process I know but hey, gotta do what you gotta do..
I sort of liked my maintenance but I want to get down to that goal... The light is at the end of the tunnel.. the tunnel is just really really long at this point..0 -
People don't want to put work into the diet and really looking at what they're eating...bottom line. It's the hard part people tend to skip over.
That's my opinion anyway.
Why would this make the last 5 lbs harder?
(For the record, I don't think they really are harder. I think it's perception, but it's not like people all of a sudden develop the wrong attitude for losing weight or getting fit.)
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »His first mention is the shrinking margin of error.
This is definitely true, IMO.
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Everybody has hit on really good points. I'm working on my last 8 or so pounds and what is making it difficult at this point, for me is:
- Hunger - Eating below a certain point (1700 calories) is a killer for me, hunger-wise. So I either eat more than that each day or I alternate days and that leads to...
- Slower weight loss - The slow down can be boring and discouraging because you're working hard and the "feedback" is slow. And beyond the weight loss feedback being slow, I lift weights and after months of gaining strength, I'm seeing...
- Slower strength gains + some strength loss - When I first started lifting, I had the normal newbie gains. That was great through the fall and during early winter when I took a maintenance break over the holidays. Now that I've been back to cutting for a few weeks, my gains have stalled and reversed for various exercises. And that all leads to...
- Doubts and wondering - Am I eating too little? Am I exercising wrong? Do I really need to lose 8 more pounds? Do I really want to lose 8 more pounds? Do I really look that bad at this weight? If the skin on my stomach shrank up a bit would I look better? Bulks help shrink your skin--could I do a mid- weight loss bulk in order to get a better view of what I look like? What do other women at my height weight anyway? What do they look like? Blah blah blah.
So, for me, I'm at the point where the initial highs of weight loss are gone. It's like when you build a house. They pour the basement foundation and the frame goes up, the siding and shutters are hung, the floorboards are in and it looks great but is completely unlivable because the wiring and plumbing and drywall and all of those mundane and yet necessary details are missing. The last month or so of that process makes you want to pull your hair out at times and you start to think of telling the electrician to skip the extra outlets or telling the plumber that you don't need that extra spigot in the backyard--anything to get the house done as soon as possible so you can move on with your life. But then you realize that you do want the outlets and the spigots so you just grit your teeth and tell yourself to be patient. And that's pretty much how these last pounds of weight loss feel to me.0 -
My answer; when you have only a little weight to lose then you need to aim for a small deficit. A small deficit is harder to maintain because errors in food calorie values and/or daily burn values can erase the intended deficit.
And the first premise - needing a smaller deficit - is due to the fact that a smaller body burns less calories.
If you're aiming for 500-1000/day deficit errors (no one is perfect) may mean you're at 250-750 and you still lose over time. But if you're aiming for 250-500, you may be actually 0-250 or worse. Every little mistake has a larger impact.
And earlier comments in the thread about natural weight fluctuations: this makes sense also. Its harder to 'see' a .2 or .5 pound loss when water weight is all over the place, than a 1-2 pound loss.
And I'd not say harder, but more challenging and it requires more patience in the end. My tips for success: trust the science, and look at weight over time. Never compare today to yesterday. Compare today to 30 days ago - especially for women as our cycles have a big impact on when the water weight is the worst.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »People don't want to put work into the diet and really looking at what they're eating...bottom line. It's the hard part people tend to skip over.
That's my opinion anyway.
Why would this make the last 5 lbs harder?
(For the record, I don't think they really are harder. I think it's perception, but it's not like people all of a sudden develop the wrong attitude for losing weight or getting fit.)
Psychologically harder is as valid as physiologically harder.
Physiologically, the body can tell the difference between low %BF and high %BF (this is independent of BMI). Leaner bodies lose weight differently - it is harder to lose fat and minimize lean body mass loss, for example.0 -
Not to be rude, but--if Google and PubMed had helped, I would have had my answer, and not have asked MFP.
My confusion, to be clear, is due to the different goals people set (e.g. 5'4 aiming for 145 versus same height, 115), so what exactly those last pounds are is arbitrary. If there were some random biological mechanism that really did cue in to the psychological decision of an arbitrary goal weight in measurement increments determined through long tradition rather than nature, yes, it would *totally* strike me as broscience at first, and I would want the studies to convince me it wasn't.
Thanks to everyone sharing their experiences and other ideas!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »People don't want to put work into the diet and really looking at what they're eating...bottom line. It's the hard part people tend to skip over.
That's my opinion anyway.
Why would this make the last 5 lbs harder?
(For the record, I don't think they really are harder. I think it's perception, but it's not like people all of a sudden develop the wrong attitude for losing weight or getting fit.)
Psychologically harder is as valid as physiologically harder.
Sure--I had a longer post upthread that discussed my own psychological issues with it. (Did you notice the particular theory that I was responding to?)
But I think another part of it is that it simply feels like it takes longer. I've been trying to lose .5 lbs/week and if I look at it over a long enough period I have been, but because at that loss rate the fluctuations make it harder to see that you are losing, I feel like I've been stalled forever. But if I step back, that's not true, it's just that I'm not getting that same regular reinforcement that one got at a higher loss rate.Physiologically, the body can tell the difference between low %BF and high %BF (this is independent of BMI). Leaner bodies lose weight differently - it is harder to lose fat and minimize lean body mass loss, for example.
Agree with this too, but that assumes a low BF%, which is a different question than "last 5 lbs." I think a lot of the last 5 lbs stuff is that people feel pretty good about where they are, so it's harder to stay motivated to keep trying to lose rather than just be okay with a week even closer to maintenance. But perhaps I'm overly influenced by my own experience.
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