The Real Problem With Bread
TheVirgoddess
Posts: 4,535 Member
Let me preface this with: I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the article. I love bread and have zero issues with gluten.
And yes, I realize at this point it's just speculation. I just thought it would be interesting to discuss.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/02/bread-gluten-rising-yeast-health-problem
And yes, I realize at this point it's just speculation. I just thought it would be interesting to discuss.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/02/bread-gluten-rising-yeast-health-problem
Even so, Jones doesn't buy the notion that the modern breeding he shuns is causing bad reactions to bread. "It's not wheat itself," he says, pointing to a 2013 study by the US Department of Agriculture that found "no evidence" of increasing levels of gluten in wheat over the decades. Rather, Jones believes that the true problem with bread is how we make it. In commercial bakeries, rising time has been winnowed from hours or even days down to mere minutes, thanks to fast-acting yeasts and additives. By contrast, the team in Jones' laboratory, located in a rural stretch along Puget Sound, lets dough rise for as long as 12 hours—and they've found that the longer it rises, the less potent the gluten that remains in the finished bread.
What's more, Jones points out, commercial bakers add a lot of extra gluten to their products. Read the label on any supermarket sliced bread—especially a whole-wheat one—and you'll likely find "vital wheat gluten" among the top four ingredients. Because whole-wheat flour has a lower gluten density than white flour, industrial bakeries add extra gluten to make the bread more elastic, like white bread.
As whole-wheat bread has grown in popularity, so has vital wheat gluten use. US gluten imports—mostly from Australia, Canada, China, and Europe—more than doubled between 1997 and 2007, reaching 386 million pounds, and most of that went into baking. Donald Kasarda, a scientist with the USDA, estimates that our annual vital gluten intake per capita has tripled since 1977, from 0.3 pounds to 0.9 pounds—and Jones speculates that people who eat lots of commercially baked whole-wheat products may be getting more than their fair share.
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My problem with %100 whole wheat bread is twofold:
1. Lots of it has sugar in it and now I'm seeing soy, too. Guess it's cheaper?
2. The nutritional value is low compared to fresh fruits and veggies and meat. Might as well have a candybar and call it a day.
Edit: I'll also eat a whole loaf if I get started, but I know most people aren't that weird!0 -
I need to start making my own bread again. I waffle between being lazy and doing the no-knead bread but no instant gratification and kneading the bread (complete with mini-workout).
Hm, I was thinking about picking up rolls for dinner, maybe I'll just make some...
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I need to start making my own bread again. I waffle between being lazy and doing the no-knead bread but no instant gratification and kneading the bread (complete with mini-workout).
Hm, I was thinking about picking up rolls for dinner, maybe I'll just make some...
Me too! I actually used to make all of our bread, but got lazy. I should start again.0 -
In my family we do make our own bread. Although we do add gluten, we also ferment the dough, which does lower the gluten content of the bread.0
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There are multiple things in store bought bread that make me sick, but I get the same reactions from the $8/loaf gluten free bread. I don't doubt the commercial yeast is an issue, along with a few other things they throw in to make it cheaper.0
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What's wrong with gluten?
I am partial to heavier breads these days and usually eat my own, heavy on the rye.0 -
I will eat all of the breads if you don't want them. 0
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I love bread, like I said in the OP. I'll continue to eat it.
I just thought it was an interesting take on gluten sensitivity.0 -
The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.0 -
Home made white bread hot out of the oven is possibly just as good, if not better, than chocolate.0
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The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.0 -
It's not that bread itself is bad, but rather that a lot of commercialized bread today is not made the same way that it used to be.The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
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I agree with the previous posters regarding commercially-produced bread. The end goal is to produce more for less. If there's a chance to put something in a product that will act as a filler and/or increase output, they will do it.
Cheaper to produce + long shelf life + ability to sell at a lower price = happy consumer.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
If people aren't sensitive to gluten then why would the amount of gluten they consume be relevant? Either consuming gluten is an issue or it is not. Aside from sensitivity to it there are no other ill effects from consuming it since it is just a long chain of amino acids which will be broken down like any other protein.0 -
The real problem with bread is that it is so hard to produce a quality loaf in a home oven.
You know the type, dense, tight and crisp.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
If people aren't sensitive to gluten then why would the amount of gluten they consume be relevant? Either consuming gluten is an issue or it is not. Aside from sensitivity to it there are no other ill effects from consuming it since it is just a long chain of amino acids which will be broken down like any other protein.
Really? So people can't have a physical reaction to something like too much salt? Or too much caffeine?0 -
I dont eat that much bread- it would go bad way faster than I could consume it- so I always keep mine in the freezer- and since I'm ALWAYS in a hurry- spreading cold butter on frozen bread before I slap it on the cast iron works way better than trying to spread cold butter on soft bread.
Works out really well for me. LOL and I don't waste bread.0 -
The problem with bread is that it's delicious and I happen to have a jar of nutella in my cabinet. No bread? Most likely to not devour the whole thing of nutella.0
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The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
Bread has been valuable in creating civilization just like all crops. And it beats starvation. But it's a mistake to think that what is good for civilization is necessarily good for the individual. For example, Guns, Germs, and Steel describes the diseases humans got (and died of) from raising livestock. Also great for the rise of civilization, certainly not for the individuals that died.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »In my family we do make our own bread. Although we do add gluten, we also ferment the dough, which does lower the gluten content of the bread.
Can you clarify this please because it makes no sense to me whatsoever. How are you "adding" gluten? Gluten is protein in the wheat flour. The strands of which lengthen and become stronger during kneading, which creates elasticity in the dough.
Also - all yeast leavened bread is "fermented" it is the action of the yeast feeding on the sugars and excreting CO2 and alcohol which causes the bread to rise - the elasticity of the dough traps the CO2.
I love bread - but eat it sparingly (i.e. less than I used to) as it is comparitively high in calories.
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The bread I make at home tastes completely different from anything I've bought in a store. I can pass on commercially prepared bread very easily. A lot of it is sweet tasting to me. Make my own? I could eat a loaf in 5 minutes LOL granted the loaves are smaller...but oh man fresh, hot bread with some wonderful creamy butter. Yum! Some of the calories were burned/earned by kneading the dough...0
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
If people aren't sensitive to gluten then why would the amount of gluten they consume be relevant? Either consuming gluten is an issue or it is not. Aside from sensitivity to it there are no other ill effects from consuming it since it is just a long chain of amino acids which will be broken down like any other protein.
Really? So people can't have a physical reaction to something like too much salt? Or too much caffeine?
Salt and caffeine have drug-like effects (caffeine is actually a drug while salt is an electrolyte and is ionized and is used to activate the sodium potassium pump which is necessary for cell depolarization). So, comparing either of those to something which is a macronutrient is uninformed and asinine. Gluten does not have drug-like effects. It is an incomplete protein and is metabolized by most people in the same way that any other incomplete protein from any food source would be metabolized.0 -
I have heard similar things from many different sources, and I'm inclined to believe that this is a big part of why so many people are wheat sensitive now. I do also think there's something in the idea that the highly bred modern varieties of wheat may have been changed enough to cause sensitivities (I'm a botanist/horticulturalist, so am well acquainted with how plants can change through breeding).
I thought this might be a joke post, as in "the real problem with bread is that when it's fresh out of the oven, I can't stop eating it!" That is my real problem with bread. Along with the fact that it is a higher-calorie food for its bulk and so I try not to eat a lot of it. 0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »In my family we do make our own bread. Although we do add gluten, we also ferment the dough, which does lower the gluten content of the bread.
Can you clarify this please because it makes no sense to me whatsoever. How are you "adding" gluten? Gluten is protein in the wheat flour. The strands of which lengthen and become stronger during kneading, which creates elasticity in the dough.
Also - all yeast leavened bread is "fermented" it is the action of the yeast feeding on the sugars and excreting CO2 and alcohol which causes the bread to rise - the elasticity of the dough traps the CO2.
I love bread - but eat it sparingly (i.e. less than I used to) as it is comparitively high in calories.
You're correct. Proteins fall out of the solution during alcoholic fermentation so fermenting the dough wouldn't have any effect on this. UNLESS, you kept the bread at a specific temperature which catalyzed the action of enzymes within the bread that did break down the gluten. In which case, the enzymatic action would be the mechanism responsible for lowering the amount of gluten, not the fermentation.
In brewing, this is called a protein rest (113-131 degrees Fahrenheit) and is too warm for most yeast strains to survive so it would have to take place prior to the dough rising.
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »
My favorite recipe for sandwich bread is the basic sandwich bread recipe from Deborah Madison's Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone, which is my most-frequently-used cookbook. Would you like the recipe? I can post it or PM you with it if you'd like.
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AmazonMayan wrote: »The bread I make at home tastes completely different from anything I've bought in a store. I can pass on commercially prepared bread very easily. A lot of it is sweet tasting to me. Make my own? I could eat a loaf in 5 minutes LOL granted the loaves are smaller...but oh man fresh, hot bread with some wonderful creamy butter. Yum! Some of the calories were burned/earned by kneading the dough...
The bread at the store has a ton of sugar/hfcs in it as a preservative, way more than you'd ever add to make your own. It's also why store bought bread is extra squishy. Between our commercial bread and our commercial cheese, people from other countries eat here and think we really are all Homer Simpson.0 -
TheVirgoddess wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »The real problem with bread is that it is delicious and I want to eat all of it.
Bread has been the main staple of the human diet (aside from much of Asia) for thousands of years. I have a hard time believing that it is as bad as some people say it is. I also have a hard time believing everyone who says they have a "gluten intolerance" considering that less than 1% of the population actually has an autoimmune reaction to gluten.
That has nothing to do with the article at all.
It says the amount of gluten we consume has tripled in the past 30 years, because companies are adding so much gluten to bread in order to improve its elasticity. Which may be the reason people are more sensitive to it now.
I'm not sure gluten intolerance is a thing, either - but I've never experienced it, so I'm not going to dismiss it.
If people aren't sensitive to gluten then why would the amount of gluten they consume be relevant? Either consuming gluten is an issue or it is not. Aside from sensitivity to it there are no other ill effects from consuming it since it is just a long chain of amino acids which will be broken down like any other protein.
Really? So people can't have a physical reaction to something like too much salt? Or too much caffeine?
Salt and caffeine have drug-like effects (caffeine is actually a drug while salt is an electrolyte and is ionized and is used to activate the sodium potassium pump which is necessary for cell depolarization). So, comparing either of those to something which is a macronutrient is uninformed and asinine. Gluten does not have drug-like effects. It is an incomplete protein and is metabolized by most people in the same way that any other incomplete protein from any food source would be metabolized.
Gluten is a macro-nutrient?
My take away from the article is that there is no gluten "sensitivity", it's over consumption of something in a relatively short period of time that our bodies haven't had a chance to adapt to yet. If that's not correct - fine - I'd like to know why it's not correct. That's all.
I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have issues with gluten and I love bread. I'm skeptical about intolerance and sensitivity in general, but when I read this, I thought there was maybe something to it and I wanted to learn more about.
You don't need to call me names to prove your point. I'm asking questions because I don't know the answers, obviously. If trying to make people feel stupid is the way in which you "teach" or "help" - then I don't need either from you.0
This discussion has been closed.
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