I quit smoking while dieting..
bettieb1988
Posts: 122 Member
It's been 3 weeks since I've had a cigarette and I was just reading that 80% of people gain 15lbs when they quit smoking.
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this and what they did to compensate. I have noticed my weight loss is moving at a much slower pace than previously but I had been attributing it to other factors.
Obviously I'm not going to start smoking again but I would like to speed things back up.
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this and what they did to compensate. I have noticed my weight loss is moving at a much slower pace than previously but I had been attributing it to other factors.
Obviously I'm not going to start smoking again but I would like to speed things back up.
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Replies
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I quit shortly before I started losing weight - I didn't gain an ounce though, and I think it was because I was hyper aware of what I was replacing the smoking with (as in, not eating when I had a craving). I've lost 70 pounds since then. Give your body a bit of time to adjust - you can do it! And good for you for quitting!0
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I had no problem losing an initial 30+ pounds when I quit smoking ... without actively counting or restricting calories. My first post-smoking goal was to run a Marathon. The Full Monte - 26.2 miles ... so I just started running regularly and the weight started coming off, no diet. Over 30 pounds in the first 6 months without even trying to lose weight.0
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I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.0
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Good job for quitting. I know how hard it is as I quit about 5 years ago. I think that most people substitute eating for cravings and that's the cause for weight gain0
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I quit a year and a half ago, and I def ate my cravings. I didn't worry about it though, I figure quitting smoking is more important. Once I hit 100 days smoke free, I joined MFP.0
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I've heard mixed reviews on it previously. I've heard it's your appetite that it changes then I heard that it slows your metabolism.0
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I quit a couple of years ago and gained about 20lbs (I wasn't overweight at all when I quit). This was because I probably ate more sugary snacks without realising. I think you feel an"emptiness" when you stop smoking and you want to fill that with something, usually food! I've heard smoking increases metabolism but not sure how much truth is in this. I've lost 15lbs of my gained weight so far so I'm on track to get back to my "smoking weight" but in hindsight, I wish I had been stricter with myself from the start. Well done on stopping.0
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
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I took Chantix to help me quit smoking, maybe the chemicals that help block the pleasure of smoking from registering also blocked my intense hand-to-mouth habit that kept food out of my mouth.0
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The first time I quit, I ate my cravings for sure! 165 to 210 lbs! Eek!
The second time, I switched to vaping, and I've stayed on track, and lost 30 lbs. so far.I would seriously suggest vaping if you think you'll go back to smoking though. I still get the nicotine fix, I can use it in the house, and a lot of the chemicals are out of it. I wouldn't say it's completely safe, but it's a heck of a lot better.
It's way better to quit all together, and if you can hang with that, then good! But, if you can't, that's what I would do. I have zero will power with smoking.0 -
Cigarettes are notorious for appetite suppression. That is why a lot of people gain weight when they quit smoking. I quit about 8 years ago and used exercise to help curb the cravings rather than food. I've known others who use candy or food as a substitute for the smoking. Those who did that usually gained weight. It's like anything else...its all about what you choose to do with your body.
Congrats on quitting! I know that it's a difficult thing to do.0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
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I decided to go cold turkey and not use any type of nicotine. Nicotine is actually one of the most harmful chemicals in cigarettes and causes bladder cancer so I want to get rid of nicotine entirely! The first 3 days I was a whiney emotional mess haha but I'm not really worried about the quitting. Doing an intense cardio workout is what curbed my cravings!
When I had my first child I lost 25lbs in 3 months. Now after my second child it's not moving nearly as fast. Maybe it's age haha0 -
I need to quit. It is certainly counterproductive to my training.0
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christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
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christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
that's really unfair, sorry0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't wantchristinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
That's crazy.0 -
Yeah. Their "excuse" is there hasn't been enough studies done on vaporisers. So they don't know if they're dangerous or not! A pack of 35 cigarettes is $26. Imagine how much money the government would be losing if more people swapped over to vaping!!?? A crap ton!0
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christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I don't think you're cheating by vaping. I quit through vaping as well and, even if it isn't AS good as quitting altogether, I'm happy I'm not getting all the chemicals and tar. Vaping doesn't suppress my appetite like cigarettes did though.
OP, some estimates say that a pack-a-day smoker burned about 250 calories per day because of the metabolism boost of smoking. Depending on how much you smoked, you might want to think about cutting some of your calories for the time being as an option (depending on your goals already). But if you're still losing, just at a slower pace, you're probably doing the right thing. I'm not sure how long the loss of the metabolism boost affects people.
Congratulations on quitting!0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Yeah. Their "excuse" is there hasn't been enough studies done on vaporisers. So they don't know if they're dangerous or not! A pack of 35 cigarettes is $26. Imagine how much money the government would be losing if more people swapped over to vaping!!?? A crap ton!
Holy crap! $26! Even in Australian dollars that's robbery!
I once paid $85 for a carton in London.0 -
dougpconnell219 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Yeah. Their "excuse" is there hasn't been enough studies done on vaporisers. So they don't know if they're dangerous or not! A pack of 35 cigarettes is $26. Imagine how much money the government would be losing if more people swapped over to vaping!!?? A crap ton!
Holy crap! $26! Even in Australian dollars that's robbery!
I once paid $85 for a carton in London.
I know right!! Between my husband and I, we were spending over $200 a week on cancer sticks
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christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
I don't agree however the government should be telling people what to do to that extent, but eh different place are just diff I guess.
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bettieb1988 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
I don't agree however the government should be telling people what to do to that extent, but eh different place are just diff I guess.
It's not so much the nicotine, it's the other stuff in the juice and the way it's inhaled. Whatever. Cigarettes would never be approved if they came out today. Neither would alcohol for that matter. But there s every reason to think e cigs are safer than cigarettes, the lesser evil by far0 -
I quit smoking twice: Once for two weeks when I was 17, and within two weeks I gained 15 pounds not eating anything different. I started back again and like magic the weight dropped. Then when I was 51, I quit smoking. I also quit drinking wine every night, eating a large breakfast at the greasy spoon filled with smoke, and skipped my afternoon Snickers. Within four weeks, I gained 35 pounds. From 110 to 145. I freaked out and started exercising, three miles on a track every morning. The weight went down but very slowly. Got down to 123 then moved to another state where there weren't as many exercise resources. I ended up at just below 170. I joined the Y and slowly but surely, the weight is finally coming off. Nicotine definitely ruled my metabolism! But I'm not young and stupid like I was at 170
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atypicalsmith wrote: »I quit smoking twice: Once for two weeks when I was 17, and within two weeks I gained 15 pounds not eating anything different. I started back again and like magic the weight dropped. Then when I was 51, I quit smoking. I also quit drinking wine every night, eating a large breakfast at the greasy spoon filled with smoke, and skipped my afternoon Snickers. Within four weeks, I gained 35 pounds. From 110 to 145. I freaked out and started exercising, three miles on a track every morning. The weight went down but very slowly. Got down to 123 then moved to another state where there weren't as many exercise resources. I ended up at just below 170. I joined the Y and slowly but surely, the weight is finally coming off. Nicotine definitely ruled my metabolism! But I'm not young and stupid like I was at 17
Shite, that sucks!! I always thought people put on weight when they quit because they simply started eating more...
It's been 2 weeks for me and I've neither lost nor gained. Keeping my fingers crossed that I won't pile the weight back on!
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bettieb1988 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
I don't agree however the government should be telling people what to do to that extent, but eh different place are just diff I guess.
It's not so much the nicotine, it's the other stuff in the juice and the way it's inhaled. Whatever. Cigarettes would never be approved if they came out today. Neither would alcohol for that matter. But there s every reason to think e cigs are safer than cigarettes, the lesser evil by far
No the nicotine itself really is bad for you. Just the nicotine. Nicotine is a carcinogen and it causes bladder cancer, intestinal cancer, and causes vessel constriction within the body. I had a surgery awhile back and my doc would not perform It until I was free from all nicotine for at least two weeks meaning, no nicotine patches or vaporizers either because it slows healing and can cause other coagulation issues.
However I do agree with you that vapes probably are not as bad as lighting up.0 -
bettieb1988 wrote: »bettieb1988 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
I don't agree however the government should be telling people what to do to that extent, but eh different place are just diff I guess.
It's not so much the nicotine, it's the other stuff in the juice and the way it's inhaled. Whatever. Cigarettes would never be approved if they came out today. Neither would alcohol for that matter. But there s every reason to think e cigs are safer than cigarettes, the lesser evil by far
No the nicotine itself really is bad for you. Just the nicotine. Nicotine is a carcinogen and it causes bladder cancer, intestinal cancer, and causes vessel constriction within the body. I had a surgery awhile back and my doc would not before it until I was free from all nicotine for at least two weeks meaning, no nicotine patches or vaporizers either because it slows healing and can cause other coagulation issues.
However I do agree with you that vapes probably are not as bad as lighting up.
Bad for wound healing, yes, vasoconstrictor, yes. However, it's thought that nicotine might mitigate risk for Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease. Also: people with schizophrenia who smoke, it's thought, use it to cope by upregulating dopamine.
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix
http://themindunleashed.org/2014/10/nicotine-are-we-wrong.html
Patches are legal, btw. There just needs to be more research on vaporizers. The hysteria's a little, well, hysterical.
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bettieb1988 wrote: »bettieb1988 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »I quit in July and haven't gained a thing.
I quit too...smoking and haven't gained any either...mind you I am using a vaporizer..but it's not smoking.
Lots of time people gain because instead of smoking they are eating or they find after a time food does taste better or or or...just eat in a deficit you will continue to lose...
Oh congrats on quitting.
And yes your metabolism is a micro amount faster when smoking as it raises heart rate and blood pressure etc but not enough to make you gain 15lbs without eating more.
I quit 2 weeks ago, also using one of those vaporisers. It feels like I'm cheating, because it feels just like having a smoke except it tastes better and minus all the chemicals.
Smoking definitely suppressed my appetite, if I was hungry I just nipped out and had a cuppa and ciggie and I was good.
I just got a vaporizer the other day So far so good. I hope to get off this eventually, too.
Re metabolism - I've read the difference is something like 200 calories (depending, obviously).
Now we've got trying to quit the vaporisers to look forward to!! I sincerely hope they don't come out with some danger associated with them!
They've already banned selling nicotine here in Australia, we have to order it from the U.S Soon they're going to ban the import of it altogether!! Why????, Because the government isn't making any money from people who quit smoking.. bloody pathetic
sorry for the vent, Don't want to hijack this thread.
I don't agree however the government should be telling people what to do to that extent, but eh different place are just diff I guess.
It's not so much the nicotine, it's the other stuff in the juice and the way it's inhaled. Whatever. Cigarettes would never be approved if they came out today. Neither would alcohol for that matter. But there s every reason to think e cigs are safer than cigarettes, the lesser evil by far
No the nicotine itself really is bad for you. Just the nicotine. Nicotine is a carcinogen and it causes bladder cancer, intestinal cancer, and causes vessel constriction within the body. I had a surgery awhile back and my doc would not perform It until I was free from all nicotine for at least two weeks meaning, no nicotine patches or vaporizers either because it slows healing and can cause other coagulation issues.
However I do agree with you that vapes probably are not as bad as lighting up.
Nicotine is a teratogen (capable of causing birth defects) but the information about nicotine as a carcinogen is inconclusive. Vaping it is "potentially carcinogenic" pending further research. Alcohol is also a carcinogen.0 -
UV rays from the sun are also a carcinogen.0
This discussion has been closed.
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