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Relationships with Food - Healthy vs. Unhealthy

JSurita2

Reading another thread on here got me to think about this. I’m curious what is a healthy food relationship? What is an unhealthy one? If we obsess about what foods weigh to the last gram and count calories all day long, is this healthy (or normal)? To who? Should we seek professional help if we continue to do this as a lifestyle? Some people might think it’s overly obsessive to weigh and count every single morsel we eat. While others might feel its crazy not to (especially if you’re trying to lose weight).

Thoughts?

Replies

LAWoman72

I feel the actual mechanism of the intake of the food can be different for each person and still be considered "normal" (or conversely, cause for concern). It's not the eating habits themselves; it's how the person feels about food and/or his/her body.

If the person is feeling distress, anxiety, depression, etc. and it's unwarranted (i.e. if I eat a ton of sh*tfood tonight and have anxiety that I'll gain tomorrow, well, that only makes sense - because that's the inevitable outcome of eating a ton of sh*tfood in excess of my TDEE over time; v. if I'm not gaining weight and am feeling well but have an anxiety that I'm going to gain weight despite evidence to the contrary), then I personally would consider it unhealthy.

This overlaps with body image. If I feel anxiety about being "too fat" because I'm 5'1" and weigh 195 lbs., well, that anxiety is quite normal, because it's logical and supported and I SHOULD be doing something about it. If I'm not, then I'm going to feel anxious, a totally normal reaction. OTOH, if I'm 5'1" and weigh 79 lbs. and feel anxious about being "too fat," well then obviously that anxiety isn't supported by any logic or biology possible, and is therefore an unhealthy relationship with myself, my body image and with what I put into my body (the food).

I would think obsessions fall into the unhealthy category as well. For example, anyone might look forward to dinnertime. Pretty normal; we all need to eat, and we're supposed to like to eat - that's biological. Some of us might go a bit nutty on the subject of dinner and have a lot of fun planning it more in advance than others, but I still (personally) wouldn't think that's unhealthy; though we all have the drive to eat, obviously, some of us have it moreso than others. But a third person might lie in bed the night before obsessively counting every calorie, unable to make a decision as to what to "spend" those calories on for the next day's dinner and grieve for missing out on whatever they didn't decide upon rather than simply saying "Oh, but I can have that one tomorrow." That I would feel is probably an unhealthy relationship with food.

I am not a professional, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that even "professionals" won't necessarily agree on one exact definition.

RainyDaysAgain

I am counting calories all day long belong I am unhealthy and losing weight is necessary. I think it is "normal" for me to do, because I am correcting a problem. Clearly my innate sense of portion control is out of whack, or I wouldn't have all this weight to lose.

It would be abnormal for my healthy preteen and teenage children to count calories. They need to learn guidelines about healthy eating, but I think counting calories would be extreme and abnormal for them.

They see me weighing my food, and tracking every little bit, but I emphasize that it is because I am correcting a problem and this is how I need to do it. I hope that they will be able to live a life without counting calories.

LAWoman72

And by the way, it was loosely postulated on the thread you're referencing that most of us must have an unhealthy food by our various definitions, or we wouldn't be here.

Again, it's a matter of degree, IMO - and of whether or not we are having unwarranted anxieties we can't allay despite logic and despite the evidence of our own eyes and our own bodies.

But yes, many of us probably do have an unhealthy relationship with food. Why not? From the time we're born, our food decisions are made for us and food does become an emotional thing and to an extent, possibly a control thing. Again, it's a matter of degree. If it's mild, no, a shrink probably isn't necessary; logic, research and discussion may be able to allay it. If it's severe, and particularly if it drifts over into ED territory, then it's shrink time (again, IMO).

UpEarly

It takes me 10-15 extra minutes (at most) a day to measure/weigh foods and log them into MFP. I don't consider something that takes so little time to be an unhealthy obsession. And I've been at it for almost 4 years now.

PRMinx

This is really a personal decision. I have had an ED in the past. Today, I can log without having issues. When I find myself getting overly anxious about the number, I stop logging for a while. I don't let anxiety over food prevent me from eating out with friends. I also don't wig out over holidays. I focus on fitness and I focus on macros (did I get enough protein?). To me, this is a healthy approach. To someone else, I could be considered a slacker because I log maybe 5 days out of the week.

The most important question is not what other people think - it's about what I think. Do I feel good? Am I anxious about food? Am I anxious in other areas of my life and using food (or lack thereof) as a coping mechanism? Is my relationship with food preventing me from living the life I want to live - (meaning, do I have enough to fuel my workouts? Is my social life healthy? Is my gastrointestinal system operating as it should?).

For the record, the poster in that thread openly admitted to having an unhealthy relationship with food.

PeachyCarol

I don't think specific actions like measuring intake or eating a certain way are in and of themselves disordered, but I believe the attitude towards them can become disordered. You can take anything to an obsessive extreme.

JSurita2

Interesting thoughts. It looks like anxiety might be the defining factor on whether its healthy or not-healthy. Even if I obsess a little over counting calories or tracking, I don't experience anxiety over it. If it takes too much effort and time then I don't do it. Maybe that's why I'm not losing as quickly as I want to. Who knows.

tomatoey

I've said this before, there's a learning curve to calorie counting. It's a definite change from just eating however much of whatever whenever. That involves stress for a lot of people. Particularly because it's not like learning software or something - it's stuff that involves a certain amount of emotional investment.

But, for many, once they're used to it and have a bank of knowledge and experience (and logged, reliably tasty + calorie-safe foods) to work from, it becomes much easier and less stressful.

jgnatca

What worries me is people who start to view food as the enemy, or claim to hate all food. Food is tasty and gives us the energy to live.

If we obsess about what foods weigh to the last gram and count calories all day long, is this healthy (or normal)?

I must count calories daily for some time to come as part of the program I am on. To make sure I eat enough of the right things means I think about food quite a bit. Diabetics have to think about food all the time too, managing a function that non-diabetics have taken care of by their own metabolisms. My (doctor) sister would say that the behavior drifts in to damaging if this activity starts to significantly interfere with my life. Normal is a spectrum.

LAWoman72

tomatoey wrote: »

I've said this before, there's a learning curve to calorie counting. It's a definite change from just eating however much of whatever whenever. That involves stress for a lot of people. Particularly because it's not like learning software or something - it's stuff that involves a certain amount of emotional investment.

But, for many, once they're used to it and have a bank of knowledge and experience (and logged, reliably tasty + calorie-safe foods) to work from, it becomes much easier and less stressful.

But does stress over having to learn a new method equate to an unhealthy relationship with food? I don't see the connection. In your example, it's stress over having to learn something new. That doesn't mean one has an unhealthy view of food, one's body and so on.

PRMinx

JSurita2 wrote: »

Interesting thoughts. It looks like anxiety might be the defining factor on whether its healthy or not-healthy. Even if I obsess a little over counting calories or tracking, I don't experience anxiety over it. If it takes too much effort and time then I don't do it. Maybe that's why I'm not losing as quickly as I want to. Who knows.

Eating disorders are control disorders. People with OCD and other anxiety issues are more likely to struggle with the disorder, so that's why there is a correlation. Not everyone who logs every day has an unhealthy relationship with food. It's only a problem when logging brings out an underlying disorder that a person already struggles with naturally.

SilverRose89

mamapeach910 wrote: »

I don't think specific actions like measuring intake or eating a certain way are in and of themselves disordered, but I believe the attitude towards them can become disordered. You can take anything to an obsessive extreme.

This, basically.

cwolfman13

JSurita2 wrote: »

Reading another thread on here got me to think about this. I’m curious what is a healthy food relationship? What is an unhealthy one? If we obsess about what foods weigh to the last gram and count calories all day long, is this healthy (or normal)? To who? Should we seek professional help if we continue to do this as a lifestyle? Some people might think it’s overly obsessive to weigh and count every single morsel we eat. While others might feel its crazy not to (especially if you’re trying to lose weight).

Thoughts?

Counting calories CAN be unhealthy and can exacerbate *kitten* relationships with food.

When I first lost my weight, things started out just fine but quickly spun out of control as I started to obsess about every little detail...if I couldn't weigh something out to the exact gram, I would get overly anxious...that is not a healthy relationship with food. When the app would go down or I otherwise didn't have access to my diary, I would become very anxious...that is not a healthy relationship. When I would go over my calorie goals a bit I would freak out and become anxious even though I was still in a pretty substantial deficit...that is not a healthy relationship.

Ultimately I quit logging and keeping a diary because it had gone from simply being a tool to being an obsession. It's when I quit logging that I really honed in on actual nutrition and working out for my fitness. I also sought out treatment for my anxiety which has helped immensely. I spent 1.5 years simply maintaining without tracking anything...just eating healthfully...focusing on my nutrition and fitness.

My relationship with food has grown by leaps and bounds over that time. Not only can I enjoy things like my old foodie self used to...but food is no longer the enemy...it's nutrients for my body...it's fuel for my workouts...it's not something to be scared of and run away from.

I'm currently in a cut so logging again...so far so good as none of my previous obsessions have surfaced. It'll be a pretty quick cut too so hopefully I will remain in a healthy state of mind...it took me about 6 months last time before I really started developing unhealthy obsessions with all of this. Once I'm finished with my cut I will go back to maintenance and not keeping a diary and being "normal".

tomatoey

LAWoman72 wrote: »

tomatoey wrote: »

I've said this before, there's a learning curve to calorie counting. It's a definite change from just eating however much of whatever whenever. That involves stress for a lot of people. Particularly because it's not like learning software or something - it's stuff that involves a certain amount of emotional investment.

But, for many, once they're used to it and have a bank of knowledge and experience (and logged, reliably tasty + calorie-safe foods) to work from, it becomes much easier and less stressful.

But does stress over having to learn a new method equate to an unhealthy relationship with food? I don't see the connection. In your example, it's stress over having to learn something new. That doesn't mean one has an unhealthy view of food, one's body and so on.

Oh, agree. But I think there's a lot of potentially sensitive stuff in the trial and error. It depends on how people interpret the "errors". A lot of people internalize them.

Like instead of stepping back and thinking, "hmm, ok, I started with a small breakfast and lunch, and got really hungry and overate later; maybe this is because the breakfast and lunch were too small (or didn't have a satiety-promoting macro profile)", and taking that as feedback to use the next day, they might think, "I really screwed up, I'm a binger for life and a fatty fat fat".

What would help them is more knowledge about nutrition in that case, but if they don't have that knowledge yet, it's easy for some to slip into damaging ways of thinking.

JSurita2

I hate that I have to leave now but definitely some interesting dialogue here. I'll come back and catch up for sure. Thanks.

esjones12

LAWoman72 wrote: »

I am not a professional, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that even "professionals" won't necessarily agree on one exact definition.

^Ditto.

I definitely think it has a lot to do with the person's intentions behind their decisions. There is a difference between starting new habits (like measuring food) to create a healthier body and someone who uses food (or the lack there of) as a punishment to their body. Is anxiety from food causing disruption into daily activities it should not be? Are you happy with your life overall? Is your body healthy and properly fueled? Etc.

Personally I was a huge emotional eater. That's what got me overweight. I fixed the emotional eating (and depression) for the most part. But I have felt myself toe the line into the unhealthy OCD obsession of counting calories. I have a strong health oriented group of friends that I am able to lean on, which includes some fitness/nutrition professionals. And I've been finding ways to correct that behaviors, otherwise I'd probably be seeking professional help by now.

But any time someone admits to unhealthy behavior or displays some red flags of an ED (I've had multiple friends with serious ED's and have done lots of Googling on the subject) - I always suggest professional help. Always better safe than sorry. It's the internet. It is their choice if they choose to follow any advice (good or bad) given.

tomatoey

jgnatca wrote: »

What worries me is people who start to view food as the enemy, or claim to hate all food. Food is tasty and gives us the energy to live.

If we obsess about what foods weigh to the last gram and count calories all day long, is this healthy (or normal)?

I must count calories daily for some time to come as part of the program I am on. To make sure I eat enough of the right things means I think about food quite a bit. Diabetics have to think about food all the time too, managing a function that non-diabetics have taken care of by their own metabolisms. My (doctor) sister would say that the behavior drifts in to damaging if this activity starts to significantly interfere with my life. Normal is a spectrum.

right. so, it might take a lot of time initially for people to plan their meals and shop and whatnot, that's a kind of interference, and they might feel anxious about food choices because of lack of certainty. but that often goes away once they know what they're doing.

i just think that for some people, calorie counting is just going to involve a bit of weirdness at the beginning.

ndj1979

when you start to assign values to food = clean, good, bad, dirty, etc that typically is going to set one up to have a bad relationship with food...

food = energy ...nothing more, nothing less...

marissafit06

One of the problems with the assertion in that other thread is the implication that because someone can lose weight means they are necessarily unhealthy. Counting calories and weighing food can be and easy way of keeping yourself accountable, in the same way that a pedometer can remind you to stay active. For me seeing what I eat helps me to realize certain things about my diet and habits. I find that I have a slightly better relationship with food when I am logging as a have a natural tendency to undereat during the day and then snack while studying/working at night. Calorie counting is just a tool.

jenncornelsen

being relatively new to this site i find it can become obsessive. im not always a fan when people encourage others to weigh every single thing they put in theyre mouth, research to make sure what u are entering is accurate... and so on. this can put lots of stress on someone who is just starting out. i only weigh my proteins since they are very tough to measure otherwise. i consistently lose. ive been keeping track of calories now for a few years but mostly just on paper or in my head. i joined this site because after being in maintenance for the past two years im ready to lose the last 20lb. sometimes i wonder if it was worth the anxiety and im hoping when i reach goal i can one day not obsess to quite the same degree

jkal1979

mamapeach910 wrote: »

I don't think specific actions like measuring intake or eating a certain way are in and of themselves disordered, but I believe the attitude towards them can become disordered. You can take anything to an obsessive extreme.

I agree. Just because someone weighs everything doesn't mean it's obsessive. I weigh it, log it, and move on with my day without thinking about it until I log the next meal. Unfortunately it does become an obsession for some.

As far as other factors go, I think misinformation about food and dieting can also contribute to an unhealthy relationship. Fearmongering posts on social media and "documentaries" on Netflix are a few examples I can think of right off the bat. It's pretty alarming to see how many people will just take what they see at face value and not do any research on it.

ndj1979

jenncornelsen wrote: »

being relatively new to this site i find it can become obsessive. im not always a fan when people encourage others to weigh every single thing they put in theyre mouth, research to make sure what u are entering is accurate... and so on. this can put lots of stress on someone who is just starting out. i only weigh my proteins since they are very tough to measure otherwise. i consistently lose. ive been keeping track of calories now for a few years but mostly just on paper or in my head. i joined this site because after being in maintenance for the past two years im ready to lose the last 20lb. sometimes i wonder if it was worth the anxiety and im hoping when i reach goal i can one day not obsess to quite the same degree

most of the time people are recommending that because people say they have either stalled or claim to be in a deficit and are not losing. Eye balling portion sizes can result in a 20 to 50% error rate in logging. The only way to know for sure is to use a food scale....

jgnatca

right. so, it might take a lot of time initially for people to plan their meals and shop and whatnot, that's a kind of interference, and they might feel anxious about food choices because of lack of certainty. but that often goes away once they know what they're doing.

i just think that for some people, calorie counting is just going to involve a bit of weirdness at the beginning.

I agree. The key word is significantly. I think if a person avoids eating out because the uncertainty of logging that food, that is a significant departure and it is interfering with their life.

If I pull out my iPhone at dinner and spend five minutes logging my meal, that's my weirdness and my dining partner is just going to have to adjust.

Need2Exerc1se

Weighing everything you eat seems obsessive to me. But then having a relationship is food is a rather bizarre concept to me, even though I probably spend much more time thinking about food than the average person.

Calling food bad or unhealthy does not necessarily mean something wrong any more than calling all food good or healthy does. Not wanting to eat certain foods because you fear they will make you overeat is no more a sign of something wrong than feeling that you must eat a little bit of something in order to stay within your goals.

I don't think anyone can really judge what is disordered or abnormal for another person without knowing them very well. Some people are just naturally more laid back and some are more neurotic.

Liftng4Lis

For me counting calories is a means to an end and I do it for awareness. There is nothing unhealthy about it. You get someone who starts obsessing, because they ate some fritos or starts calling foods "bad", then you have someone with an unhealthy relationship.

MindySaysWhaaat

Try not to look at logging food as a chore. I try to look at it like any other daily ritual for health like brushing my teeth, taking my vitamins/pills etc. I try not to overanalyze it because that led to binge eating in the past.

I also have been focusing more recently (the past two months) on not beating myself up if I overeat. I find that the more guilty I feel, the worse I do in the long run. I've been focusing on positive thoughts instead of negative ones.

I also don't consider foods "bad" because I don't like to demonize them. In the end if I don't let myself have something I find that I want it more, and I end up having a binge on that particular food.

For me this whole thing is about moderation, and learning how to be okay with eating proper portion sizes. The more I've been doing it, the easier it's starting to become. This is at least my experience.

riffraff2112

Liftng4Lis wrote: »

For me counting calories is a means to an end and I do it for awareness. There is nothing unhealthy about it. You get someone who starts obsessing, because they ate some fritos or starts calling foods "bad", then you have someone with an unhealthy relationship.

Pretty much my feelings too. I personally am not a 'weigher' of food, but that is just me. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, just not a habit I have picked up.

I dont think that is an obsession, any more than writing down how much weight you are working out with, or how many miles you have run. More information the better as far as I am concerned.

amusedmonkey

I personally don't like this phrase. It's food. I like enjoy eating it (probably a bit too much). It's important for survival...and so on, but I don't need to have any kind of relationship with it. The thought of having a relationship with food, ironically, makes me feel like a person is too emotionally attached to food and may have an "unhealthy relationship" with it. It's semantics, but I felt like getting that out there so I digress.

Now a person can have unhealthy practices and underlying issues that manifest in the way they see and deal with food. A person who stresses over every morsel of food may feel that food is the problem, but it's not. The same person may be prone to stressing over every morsel of something else, so there are underlying causes to that which need to be addressed. Now a person who does so because they think they need to make radical changes or take extreme dieting measures is stressing as a result of being in a stressful situation (doing more than they can comfortably handle) and that's due to being misinformed. They don't necessarily have issues that relate to food in this particular aspect (stressing about details).

I personally weigh food most of the time because I've been doing it for long and it's become a mechanical habit + I like numbers and data. Data (on many things) fascinates me. Would I be annoyed if my food scale broke? Yes, because it would disrupt a habit, and people don't usually like that. Would I break down or stop eating because I feel lost? No.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should not dub food-related behaviors as unhealthy (unless they are obviously unhealthy like eating disorders) unless we know their source: is it a true problem, a habit, or simply because that person just doesn't know better?

PeachyCarol

Need2Exerc1se wrote: »

Weighing everything you eat seems obsessive to me. But then having a relationship is food is a rather bizarre concept to me, even though I probably spend much more time thinking about food than the average person.

Calling food bad or unhealthy does not necessarily mean something wrong any more than calling all food good or healthy does. Not wanting to eat certain foods because you fear they will make you overeat is no more a sign of something wrong than feeling that you must eat a little bit of something in order to stay within your goals.

I don't think anyone can really judge what is disordered or abnormal for another person without knowing them very well. Some people are just naturally more laid back and some are more neurotic.

You can't judge what is disordered or abnormal yet you judge that weighing everything is obsessive. Ooooooooookay.

unknown

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