not the usual question about calories...
totaldetermination
Posts: 1,184 Member
OK, so generally speaking:
calories in < calories out leads to fat loss
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
(I've read many threads discussing this point...but that's not what I'm questioning)
the body needs a certain amount of proteins, fats, carbs (as well as other things) to function optimally, with individual's needs varying depending on their circumstances.
for example, even if you meet your carb and fat goals but go over in your protein goals, the body will store the additional calories (which came from the protein) as fat.
So my question is
(my apologies if some of my terminology is not correct. I'm not a scientist)
when we say the body 'needs protein' is it the entire protein molecule that the body needs, or is it somehow referring to the protein molecule without considering its calories.
consider the following
if your body uses 75g of protein, is it 'using' 300 calories (75 g protein@ 4 calories/gram) as well ? In which case if you had eaten those 300 calories as carbs (and not reached your daily protein needs of 75g) then they would not be used ?
or does the body somehow separate the 'protein-ness' from the calories.
I'm not talking about protein where you go over your daily needs. Also, I imagine that one day probably wouldn't make a difference, but I'm just using one day as an example to make my point.
any ideas ?
calories in < calories out leads to fat loss
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
(I've read many threads discussing this point...but that's not what I'm questioning)
the body needs a certain amount of proteins, fats, carbs (as well as other things) to function optimally, with individual's needs varying depending on their circumstances.
for example, even if you meet your carb and fat goals but go over in your protein goals, the body will store the additional calories (which came from the protein) as fat.
So my question is
(my apologies if some of my terminology is not correct. I'm not a scientist)
when we say the body 'needs protein' is it the entire protein molecule that the body needs, or is it somehow referring to the protein molecule without considering its calories.
consider the following
if your body uses 75g of protein, is it 'using' 300 calories (75 g protein@ 4 calories/gram) as well ? In which case if you had eaten those 300 calories as carbs (and not reached your daily protein needs of 75g) then they would not be used ?
or does the body somehow separate the 'protein-ness' from the calories.
I'm not talking about protein where you go over your daily needs. Also, I imagine that one day probably wouldn't make a difference, but I'm just using one day as an example to make my point.
any ideas ?
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Replies
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Calories in/out always trumps macro balance whether you are trying to lose, gain, or maintain weight.
Macro balance, including protein, is for body composition. For example, if you want to gain muscle, you have to eat at maintenance or a little over and make sure you have enough protein in your diet.
In other words, if you have you macro balance perfect and you eat over your TDEE, you will gain weight.0 -
calories in < calories out leads to fat losstotaldetermination wrote: »OK, so generally speaking:
calories in < calories out leads to fat loss
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
(I've read many threads discussing this point...but that's not what I'm questioning)
the body needs a certain amount of proteins, fats, carbs (as well as other things) to function optimally, with individual's needs varying depending on their circumstances.
for example, even if you meet your carb and fat goals but go over in your protein goals, the body will store the additional calories (which came from the protein) as fat.
So my question is
(my apologies if some of my terminology is not correct. I'm not a scientist)
when we say the body 'needs protein' is it the entire protein molecule that the body needs, or is it somehow referring to the protein molecule without considering its calories.
consider the following
if your body uses 75g of protein, is it 'using' 300 calories (75 g protein@ 4 calories/gram) as well ? In which case if you had eaten those 300 calories as carbs (and not reached your daily protein needs of 75g) then they would not be used ?
or does the body somehow separate the 'protein-ness' from the calories.
I'm not talking about protein where you go over your daily needs. Also, I imagine that one day probably wouldn't make a difference, but I'm just using one day as an example to make my point.
any ideas ?
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
not totally accurate...take fat out and put weight in.
and no your body does not store excess protein as fat if you are in a deficit..
and what the PP said...macros are for health and nutrition and body comp...
a calorie is a calorie no matter where it comes from.
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Calories contribute to weight loss/gain. The macro balance will be a factor in determining where that loss/gain comes from (i.e. water, muscles, fat, etc.). The food you eat (carbs, fats, or protein) break down to individual components in your body so that it can utilize the building blocks the best it knows how.
Without protein building blocks, there is no proteins for your muscles to utilize. You can't create "protein-ness" or protein molecules out of carb molecules. Carbs just break down into glucose so that you can ultimately use it for energy.0 -
@SezxyStef, I don't think I've seen you around in a bit. It's good to see you here.
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Your body does not recognize where calories come from. It litterally sees calories as "energy".
If you are in a deficit, you cannot gain weight. You cannot burn, and gain fat at the same time. You are either burning it or gaining it.
I like to use the example of a cup of water. It is impossible to fill the cup while you are busy pouring the water out at the same time.0 -
I'm no scientist or dietitian, but from what I gather....your body uses what it can/needs from the food and gets rid of the rest. Unless you are CI>CO, then it will store stuff, making you gain weight. Your body isn't going to go "oh this is chicken, lets only take the protein from it" - it will use the fat in the chicken as well. For example, protein helps build your muscles back up. You are going to lose/maintain/gain based on CICO. Long term deficiencies or significant imbalances in macros/micros will start showing side effects.
At least I think that is what you were getting at? Not overly sure what your point/question was.0 -
If your body needs protein and you aren't getting enough from food, it can get protein by breaking down muscles in other parts of the body. Same with calcium. If one bone needs to be strengthened and you are getting enough calcium from food, a less used bone will become weaker. But calories don't actually weigh anything. The macros carry calories with them that are released through a chemical reaction, but the weight comes from the macros, not the calories. Calories is just a convenient way to measure macro intake because it gives us something that is easy to compare to the amount of energy we exert in our activities.0
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Protein is a type of calorie and it is the only type of calorie that the body can use for building muscle. Protein can be chemically rearranged into other kinds of calories by the body but other kinds of calories cannot be turned into protein. The kind of calorie that protein is turned into will be based on whether the body needs more calories to burn at the moment or not. Whether your body can maintain its muscles will depend on whether it has enough protein calories for upkeep.
Eat your protein.0 -
Generally speaking, when people talk about the body "needing protein", they mean that the component amino acids need to be available as a resource - like having a ready supply of bricks when you're building a house.
That consideration is generally separate from the calories available from fully metabolizing the protein. Speaking purely about energy needs, you wouldn't bother differentiating between macros.0 -
I agree. And speaking purely about macronutrient needs, calories aren't really part of the picture. You need protein because of the amino acids. You need calories for entirely different reasons.Generally speaking, when people talk about the body "needing protein", they mean that the component amino acids need to be available as a resource - like having a ready supply of bricks when you're building a house.
That consideration is generally separate from the calories available from fully metabolizing the protein. Speaking purely about energy needs, you wouldn't bother differentiating between macros.
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@SLLRunner aww thanks...took a break for a bit when they changed up the forums...but ready to be here again...@SezxyStef, I don't think I've seen you around in a bit. It's good to see you here.
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Generally speaking, when people talk about the body "needing protein", they mean that the component amino acids need to be available as a resource - like having a ready supply of bricks when you're building a house.
That consideration is generally separate from the calories available from fully metabolizing the protein. Speaking purely about energy needs, you wouldn't bother differentiating between macros.
THERE IT IS! The calories are the energy component of the food, the nutrients are the other part. So a chicken breast has calories that your body burns for energy, and amino acids that your body uses to build or maintain muscle (and not just the "pretty" muscles, but ALL your muscle).0 -
No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.0
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calories in < calories out leads to fat losstotaldetermination wrote: »OK, so generally speaking:
calories in < calories out leads to fat loss
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
(I've read many threads discussing this point...but that's not what I'm questioning)
the body needs a certain amount of proteins, fats, carbs (as well as other things) to function optimally, with individual's needs varying depending on their circumstances.
for example, even if you meet your carb and fat goals but go over in your protein goals, the body will store the additional calories (which came from the protein) as fat.
So my question is
(my apologies if some of my terminology is not correct. I'm not a scientist)
when we say the body 'needs protein' is it the entire protein molecule that the body needs, or is it somehow referring to the protein molecule without considering its calories.
consider the following
if your body uses 75g of protein, is it 'using' 300 calories (75 g protein@ 4 calories/gram) as well ? In which case if you had eaten those 300 calories as carbs (and not reached your daily protein needs of 75g) then they would not be used ?
or does the body somehow separate the 'protein-ness' from the calories.
I'm not talking about protein where you go over your daily needs. Also, I imagine that one day probably wouldn't make a difference, but I'm just using one day as an example to make my point.
any ideas ?
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
not totally accurate...take fat out and put weight in.
and no your body does not store excess protein as fat if you are in a deficit..
and what the PP said...macros are for health and nutrition and body comp...
a calorie is a calorie no matter where it comes from.
^Why on Earth was this flagged?
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Biochemically speaking it is difficult for your body to convert excess protein into fat.0
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bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.0 -
bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Sorry, I meant fat, not carbs.0 -
hsmith0930 wrote: »Generally speaking, when people talk about the body "needing protein", they mean that the component amino acids need to be available as a resource - like having a ready supply of bricks when you're building a house.
That consideration is generally separate from the calories available from fully metabolizing the protein. Speaking purely about energy needs, you wouldn't bother differentiating between macros.
THERE IT IS! The calories are the energy component of the food, the nutrients are the other part. So a chicken breast has calories that your body burns for energy, and amino acids that your body uses to build or maintain muscle (and not just the "pretty" muscles, but ALL your muscle).
Thanks !
that answered my question.
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diannethegeek wrote: »
calories in < calories out leads to fat losstotaldetermination wrote: »OK, so generally speaking:
calories in < calories out leads to fat loss
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
(I've read many threads discussing this point...but that's not what I'm questioning)
the body needs a certain amount of proteins, fats, carbs (as well as other things) to function optimally, with individual's needs varying depending on their circumstances.
for example, even if you meet your carb and fat goals but go over in your protein goals, the body will store the additional calories (which came from the protein) as fat.
So my question is
(my apologies if some of my terminology is not correct. I'm not a scientist)
when we say the body 'needs protein' is it the entire protein molecule that the body needs, or is it somehow referring to the protein molecule without considering its calories.
consider the following
if your body uses 75g of protein, is it 'using' 300 calories (75 g protein@ 4 calories/gram) as well ? In which case if you had eaten those 300 calories as carbs (and not reached your daily protein needs of 75g) then they would not be used ?
or does the body somehow separate the 'protein-ness' from the calories.
I'm not talking about protein where you go over your daily needs. Also, I imagine that one day probably wouldn't make a difference, but I'm just using one day as an example to make my point.
any ideas ?
calories in > calories out leads to fat gain
not totally accurate...take fat out and put weight in.
and no your body does not store excess protein as fat if you are in a deficit..
and what the PP said...macros are for health and nutrition and body comp...
a calorie is a calorie no matter where it comes from.
^Why on Earth was this flagged?
cause I am just that special.
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bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Sorry, I meant fat, not carbs.
Still nope. Calories in vs out is all that matters. Protein does not magically turn into fat if you go over.0 -
bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Not ever? You sure?
Protein is broken down into amino acids via proteolysis. Amino acids can be broken down, the carbon backbones can be converted to acetyl-CoA and fed into the Krebs Cycle/Citric Acid Cycle/TCA Cycle. The intermediates and products of the Krebs Cycle can be used to build other compounds including carbohydrates.
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bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Not ever? You sure?
Protein is broken down into amino acids via proteolysis. Amino acids can be broken down, the carbon backbones can be converted to acetyl-CoA and fed into the Krebs Cycle/Citric Acid Cycle/TCA Cycle. The intermediates and products of the Krebs Cycle can be used to build other compounds including carbohydrates.
Gluconeogenesis0 -
bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Sorry, I meant fat, not carbs.
Still nope. Calories in vs out is all that matters. Protein does not magically turn into fat if you go over.
Here's my source, have fun learning.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/changingshape5.htm0 -
bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Sorry, I meant fat, not carbs.
Still nope. Calories in vs out is all that matters. Protein does not magically turn into fat if you go over.
Here's my source, have fun learning.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/changingshape5.htm
It is highly unlikely protein will be converted to fat
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html/0 -
protein won't get stored as fat unless you are in a caloric surplus…
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bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Sorry, I meant fat, not carbs.
Still nope. Calories in vs out is all that matters. Protein does not magically turn into fat if you go over.
Here's my source, have fun learning.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/changingshape5.htm
bb.com the new cambridge journal…who knew?0 -
bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Sorry, I meant fat, not carbs.
Still nope. Calories in vs out is all that matters. Protein does not magically turn into fat if you go over.
Here's my source, have fun learning.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/changingshape5.htm
It is highly unlikely protein will be converted to fat
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excess-protein-and-fat-storage-qa.html/
I know, that's why in my first post were I said carbs instead of fat by mistake, it would take an extreme case for it to happen.0 -
bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Not ever? You sure?
Protein is broken down into amino acids via proteolysis. Amino acids can be broken down, the carbon backbones can be converted to acetyl-CoA and fed into the Krebs Cycle/Citric Acid Cycle/TCA Cycle. The intermediates and products of the Krebs Cycle can be used to build other compounds including carbohydrates.
I thought I was clear with what I meant but I guess not. I was talking about the MACROs people usually refer to. For example: a piece of steak is not going to magically turn into an apple in the body. Not the same as the multi-step break down cycles in the body (which most people don't even know the name of).
You sure you want to battle with science?0 -
This content has been removed.
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bostonultd1 wrote: »No, protein doesn't turn into carbs unless under extreme cases or turn into extra calories than what you've already consumed. It takes far more energy to turn protein into energy than carbs or fat. Your body would simply get rid of the excess protein just like excess vitamins or minerals. Normally, if you lift heavy, people tend to consume 1g of protein per pound of weight. Some heavy lifters even do 2g of protein per pound. Make sure to get a good blend of whey, whey isolate and casein protein.
Yeah.... No. Protein does not turn into carbs EVER. They are two different compounds.
Not ever? You sure?
Protein is broken down into amino acids via proteolysis. Amino acids can be broken down, the carbon backbones can be converted to acetyl-CoA and fed into the Krebs Cycle/Citric Acid Cycle/TCA Cycle. The intermediates and products of the Krebs Cycle can be used to build other compounds including carbohydrates.
I thought I was clear with what I meant but I guess not. I was talking about the MACROs people usually refer to. For example: a piece of steak is not going to magically turn into an apple in the body. Not the same as the multi-step break down cycles in the body (which most people don't even know the name of).
You sure you want to battle with science?
So you're talking about macros and don't mean protein and carbohydrate, you mean steak and apple. You also assume people are too ignorant to realize that an apple will not *poof* turn into a piece of steak in the body or anywhere else. OK.
I'm pretty sure I am big buddies with science. You, however, not so much.0
This discussion has been closed.
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