Eating for recomposition
tomatoey
Posts: 5,446 Member
So I know meal timing tends not to matter generally (e.g. on the matter of hours). But I've read it does for recomposition (hence the advice to cycle calories by eating at maintenance on lifting days, and at a deficit on non-lifting days).
How much does adhering to that timescale really matter, vs. averaging things out over the week or eating the same amount daily? What is that timescale (roughly)?
If I eat less than maintenance on a training day, how much does it affect the gains from that particular workout?
Also, does it make sense to eat exactly at maintenance, or a few hundred calories under (have seen both bits of advice)?
How much does adhering to that timescale really matter, vs. averaging things out over the week or eating the same amount daily? What is that timescale (roughly)?
If I eat less than maintenance on a training day, how much does it affect the gains from that particular workout?
Also, does it make sense to eat exactly at maintenance, or a few hundred calories under (have seen both bits of advice)?
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Replies
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There are a few different schools of thought on it, but I haven't really seen any studies.
As you know, most things are not a 24 hour cycle. Your body doesn't shut off at a certain time and say that you were over your calories congrats on your new body fat. There are more optimal ways of doing things, like timing carbs and protein around workouts. In general, adherence and your training program are going to be the biggest factors to your success.
I know people who were successful with calorie cycling (ending the week with their average intake at about their TDEE). I also know people who were successful with a flat rate intake of about their TDEE.
I don't think anyone can quantify the difference in eating at TDEE versus calorie cycling. There are a lot of factors to consider and some of that will come down to how your body responds.
Sorry for the lack of an actual answer.0 -
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^^^ good vid right there.
and honestly with recomping or just trying to gain strength while putting on minimal weight is difficult.. just track calories and how I go about it is by trying to add as many cals as I can, as slow as I can, without gaining weight... do that for a while and ul be surprised how much more you can eat when adding calories slowly. scale don't move.0 -
Thank you all for your insights. I appreciate the focus on practicality. It makes sense to go with something I can adhere to, and adjust with results. It makes sense to take advantage of protein synthesis. So TDEE should be fine...
I don't want to actually add calories above maintenance, because I'm one of those normal bmi but overfat people.
(Not to influence further posts, because I'm interested in ideas around the questions as asked, but I might mention that in my particular case, I am not training with significant intensity because I'm working around stuff - sort of relying on volume for now, for the most part. So in my case the application of the questions would be "how should a 5'7, 141-lb, late 30s woman at roughly ~30% bf, who's mostly doing bodyweight stuff except for a very few exercises, eat for recomposition (or is that just a crazy goal anyway)". I'm thinking I might need to eat less than maintenance? Maybe? @usmcmp - you gave me good feedback in your thread about training, really appreciate it
) 0 -
I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).0 -
I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?0 -
arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Recomposition implies that you are gaining lean mass while losing fat. A woman who is 5'7" 140 pounds with 25% body fat has more lean mass and a higher BMR than a woman who has the same stats with 30% body fat. It won't be rapid.
I also mentioned improved hormones. As you know many people who have been dieting a long time hit a plateau and have to increase their calories to continue losing. The increase in calories changes the balance in leptin and cortisol.0 -
arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Recomposition implies that you are gaining lean mass while losing fat. A woman who is 5'7" 140 pounds with 25% body fat has more lean mass and a higher BMR than a woman who has the same stats with 30% body fat. It won't be rapid.
I also mentioned improved hormones. As you know many people who have been dieting a long time hit a plateau and have to increase their calories to continue losing. The increase in calories changes the balance in leptin and cortisol.
I understand the concept of recomp, but I didn't realize that your maintenance calories would grow. I was going to try it awhile back but didn't have the patience. Considering it again.0 -
arditarose wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Recomposition implies that you are gaining lean mass while losing fat. A woman who is 5'7" 140 pounds with 25% body fat has more lean mass and a higher BMR than a woman who has the same stats with 30% body fat. It won't be rapid.
I also mentioned improved hormones. As you know many people who have been dieting a long time hit a plateau and have to increase their calories to continue losing. The increase in calories changes the balance in leptin and cortisol.
I understand the concept of recomp, but I didn't realize that your maintenance calories would grow. I was going to try it awhile back but didn't have the patience. Considering it again.
Haha it is a process that requires patience, but so is bulking and cutting. I think most people would find recomposition easier mentally. Gaining fat back was not easy even though I knew I was going to lose it again with some improved lean mass. At least with recomposition you can get in the mindset that you are maintaining while working hard in the gym for growth. You don't have to go through a fat phase.0 -
arditarose wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Recomposition implies that you are gaining lean mass while losing fat. A woman who is 5'7" 140 pounds with 25% body fat has more lean mass and a higher BMR than a woman who has the same stats with 30% body fat. It won't be rapid.
I also mentioned improved hormones. As you know many people who have been dieting a long time hit a plateau and have to increase their calories to continue losing. The increase in calories changes the balance in leptin and cortisol.
I understand the concept of recomp, but I didn't realize that your maintenance calories would grow. I was going to try it awhile back but didn't have the patience. Considering it again.
Haha it is a process that requires patience, but so is bulking and cutting. I think most people would find recomposition easier mentally. Gaining fat back was not easy even though I knew I was going to lose it again with some improved lean mass. At least with recomposition you can get in the mindset that you are maintaining while working hard in the gym for growth. You don't have to go through a fat phase.
Right, exactly. And even if I wanted to bulk now, doing my first bulk at the beginning of the summer, after losing all this weight...mentally, no. We'll see. I follow your posts and a few others who know a lot about recomp. Might give it a go again.0 -
arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
This...is the best news I've heard in weeks. I've been moping about my maintenance calories for so long. Will book mark the link for tomorrow.0 -
I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
This all makes sense, thank you! I'll stick with maintenance, then. I'm really not keen to be skinny fat again, at all (been there, done that).
(There's no way I'd expect you to remember, lol, you answer literally thousands of questions! Just wanted to give props where props are due )
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arditarose wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Recomposition implies that you are gaining lean mass while losing fat. A woman who is 5'7" 140 pounds with 25% body fat has more lean mass and a higher BMR than a woman who has the same stats with 30% body fat. It won't be rapid.
I also mentioned improved hormones. As you know many people who have been dieting a long time hit a plateau and have to increase their calories to continue losing. The increase in calories changes the balance in leptin and cortisol.
I understand the concept of recomp, but I didn't realize that your maintenance calories would grow. I was going to try it awhile back but didn't have the patience. Considering it again.
Haha it is a process that requires patience, but so is bulking and cutting. I think most people would find recomposition easier mentally. Gaining fat back was not easy even though I knew I was going to lose it again with some improved lean mass. At least with recomposition you can get in the mindset that you are maintaining while working hard in the gym for growth. You don't have to go through a fat phase.
I think it's really the ideal approach for many! No fat phase, and no skinny fat at the end.0 -
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
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LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
There it is! I was thinking about your bulking experience and wanted to tag you, but figured you were laying in bed crippled.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
bummer
how are you managing things at the moment? 0 -
A friend suggested a topical, so I've used that this week applying once a day and II seriously can't believe the difference. For the last 2 months, it's been really frustrating. Anytime I moved my right arm up, either in front or to my side the pain was excruciating and kinda felt like tendentious ....I had problems stretching to grab my seatbelt. Today which is just over a week using the topical, I feel no pain whatsoever so I think Sunday I'll try out the gym and do a light workout. It was the push movements that prevented me mostly from any activity with my upper, but hopefully that's about to change.neanderthin wrote: »
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
bummer how are you managing things at the moment?
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neanderthin wrote: »
A friend suggested a topical, so I've used that this week applying once a day and II seriously can't believe the difference. For the last 2 months, it's been really frustrating. Anytime I moved my right arm up, either in front or to my side the pain was excruciating and kinda felt like tendentious ....I had problems stretching to grab my seatbelt. Today which is just over a week using the topical, I feel no pain whatsoever so I think Sunday I'll try out the gym and do a light workout. It was the push movements that prevented me mostly from any activity with my upper, but hopefully that's about to change.neanderthin wrote: »
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
bummer how are you managing things at the moment?
I'm sorry That sounds quite painful, and I totally get it (also have mild, mostly healed rotator cuff tendonosis [aka tendonitis] - took me out of swimming for six months last year). Very frustrating!
Is it Voltaren you're using (or topical diclofenac if it's another brand in your country)? I've heard that many people get relief from pain with it, good to hear you are, as well. Have you had any help from a physio?
This is a good resource for tendinosis, if you've not seen it: http://www.tendinosis.org/index.shtml . (An amazing number of medical people are treating it wrong, imo, because they're conceptualizing it in the wrong way. It's not an inflammation, as the -itis suffix implies. That only happens rarely, with acute trauma. What it is, is failed healing, like a scar. Degradation of tissue. So treating it like it's an inflammation (e.g. with NSAIDS or cortisone shots) might not be the way to go, is what many are saying now. Sorry if you're already familiar with this - a lot of people aren't; just wanted to mention it, in case.)0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
A friend suggested a topical, so I've used that this week applying once a day and II seriously can't believe the difference. For the last 2 months, it's been really frustrating. Anytime I moved my right arm up, either in front or to my side the pain was excruciating and kinda felt like tendentious ....I had problems stretching to grab my seatbelt. Today which is just over a week using the topical, I feel no pain whatsoever so I think Sunday I'll try out the gym and do a light workout. It was the push movements that prevented me mostly from any activity with my upper, but hopefully that's about to change.neanderthin wrote: »
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
bummer how are you managing things at the moment?
I'm sorry That sounds quite painful, and I totally get it (also have mild, mostly healed rotator cuff tendonosis [aka tendonitis]). Very frustrating!
Is it Voltaren you're using (or topical diclofenac if it's another brand in your country)? I've heard that many people get relief from pain with it, good to hear you are, as well. Have you had any help from a physio?
This is a good resource for tendinosis, if you've not seen it: http://www.tendinosis.org/index.shtml . (An amazing number of medical people are treating it wrong, imo, because they're conceptualizing it in the wrong way. It's not an acute inflammation, as the -itis suffix implies; it's failed healing, like a scar. Degradation of tissue. So treating it like it's an inflammation (e.g. with NSAIDS or cortisone shots) might not be the way to go, is what many are saying now. Sorry if you're already familiar with this - a lot of people aren't; just wanted to mention it, in case.)
I can't relate to shoulder stuff, but when I had tendonitis in my elbows compression sleeves at night helped and foam rolling my triceps did wonders. I'm not sure how that would apply to anyone else or a shoulder issue, but I do know that stimulation of the Golgi Tendon Organ through myofacial release can help release tension and reduce pain.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
A friend suggested a topical, so I've used that this week applying once a day and II seriously can't believe the difference. For the last 2 months, it's been really frustrating. Anytime I moved my right arm up, either in front or to my side the pain was excruciating and kinda felt like tendentious ....I had problems stretching to grab my seatbelt. Today which is just over a week using the topical, I feel no pain whatsoever so I think Sunday I'll try out the gym and do a light workout. It was the push movements that prevented me mostly from any activity with my upper, but hopefully that's about to change.neanderthin wrote: »
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
bummer how are you managing things at the moment?
I'm sorry That sounds quite painful, and I totally get it (also have mild, mostly healed rotator cuff tendonosis [aka tendonitis]). Very frustrating!
Is it Voltaren you're using (or topical diclofenac if it's another brand in your country)? I've heard that many people get relief from pain with it, good to hear you are, as well. Have you had any help from a physio?
This is a good resource for tendinosis, if you've not seen it: http://www.tendinosis.org/index.shtml . (An amazing number of medical people are treating it wrong, imo, because they're conceptualizing it in the wrong way. It's not an acute inflammation, as the -itis suffix implies; it's failed healing, like a scar. Degradation of tissue. So treating it like it's an inflammation (e.g. with NSAIDS or cortisone shots) might not be the way to go, is what many are saying now. Sorry if you're already familiar with this - a lot of people aren't; just wanted to mention it, in case.)
I can't relate to shoulder stuff, but when I had tendonitis in my elbows compression sleeves at night helped and foam rolling my triceps did wonders. I'm not sure how that would apply to anyone else or a shoulder issue, but I do know that stimulation of the Golgi Tendon Organ through myofacial release can help release tension and reduce pain.
That jibes with what I've read, which is that the aim of rehabilitation efforts should be to try to remodel the collagen fibers, or encourage them to lay down in a nonpathological way with mechanical intervention. I have had some relief for chronic peroneal tendinopathy with similar approaches. (It came a little late, though, after I wasted time with people who didn't know what they were talking about. Not angry about that at all, lol
)
(For the rotator cuff: it's mostly ok now, I just don't want to push it. I basically didn't use it much outside of prescribed exercises, after a rest period.)0 -
No, haven't done any research, so thanks for the info. The product I'm using is called moor spa tension balm and unless it's all coincidence it worked from the get go and got better each day, and I couldn't tell you what's in it.neanderthin wrote: »
A friend suggested a topical, so I've used that this week applying once a day and II seriously can't believe the difference. For the last 2 months, it's been really frustrating. Anytime I moved my right arm up, either in front or to my side the pain was excruciating and kinda felt like tendentious ....I had problems stretching to grab my seatbelt. Today which is just over a week using the topical, I feel no pain whatsoever so I think Sunday I'll try out the gym and do a light workout. It was the push movements that prevented me mostly from any activity with my upper, but hopefully that's about to change.neanderthin wrote: »
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
bummer how are you managing things at the moment?
I'm sorry That sounds quite painful, and I totally get it (also have mild, mostly healed rotator cuff tendonosis [aka tendonitis] - took me out of swimming for six months last year). Very frustrating!
Is it Voltaren you're using (or topical diclofenac if it's another brand in your country)? I've heard that many people get relief from pain with it, good to hear you are, as well. Have you had any help from a physio?
This is a good resource for tendinosis, if you've not seen it: http://www.tendinosis.org/index.shtml . (An amazing number of medical people are treating it wrong, imo, because they're conceptualizing it in the wrong way. It's not an inflammation, as the -itis suffix implies. That only happens rarely, with acute trauma. What it is, is failed healing, like a scar. Degradation of tissue. So treating it like it's an inflammation (e.g. with NSAIDS or cortisone shots) might not be the way to go, is what many are saying now. Sorry if you're already familiar with this - a lot of people aren't; just wanted to mention it, in case.)
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neanderthin wrote: »
No, haven't done any research, so thanks for the info. The product I'm using is called moor spa tension balm and unless it's all coincidence it worked from the get go and got better each day, and I couldn't tell you what's in it.neanderthin wrote: »
A friend suggested a topical, so I've used that this week applying once a day and II seriously can't believe the difference. For the last 2 months, it's been really frustrating. Anytime I moved my right arm up, either in front or to my side the pain was excruciating and kinda felt like tendentious ....I had problems stretching to grab my seatbelt. Today which is just over a week using the topical, I feel no pain whatsoever so I think Sunday I'll try out the gym and do a light workout. It was the push movements that prevented me mostly from any activity with my upper, but hopefully that's about to change.neanderthin wrote: »
Lean bulk works for me and I do it best by finding that new maintenance level with increased load and intensity, but not lately, my shoulder is letting me down.LolBroScience wrote: »arditarose wrote: »I actually think that a flat rate at maintenance would be appropriate for you based on your exercises (as I now remember from my previous thread, forgive me for forgetting). This will be a good opportunity for recovery and mobility.
As you are aware, calculators are only a guess. You may have to slowly increase or decrease calories to find where you will actually maintain. You will find that over time your weight should slowly drop as your maintenance increases (through hormonal profile improvement and lean mass gains, which raise your BMR).
Not to hi-jack, but if you're doing a recomp and losing fat...your maintenance calories will slowly increase?
Purely my opinion here...
Eating at a higher caloric level is easier to maintain or improve performance than say compared to a deficit. If you continue to eat at maintenance calories while increasing your work capacity via volume, intensity etc your caloric expenditure will increase. Thus, you would potentially reach a new higher level of maintenance calories to support that level of work capacity.
This article touches on it: http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
bummer how are you managing things at the moment?
I'm sorry That sounds quite painful, and I totally get it (also have mild, mostly healed rotator cuff tendonosis [aka tendonitis] - took me out of swimming for six months last year). Very frustrating!
Is it Voltaren you're using (or topical diclofenac if it's another brand in your country)? I've heard that many people get relief from pain with it, good to hear you are, as well. Have you had any help from a physio?
This is a good resource for tendinosis, if you've not seen it: http://www.tendinosis.org/index.shtml . (An amazing number of medical people are treating it wrong, imo, because they're conceptualizing it in the wrong way. It's not an inflammation, as the -itis suffix implies. That only happens rarely, with acute trauma. What it is, is failed healing, like a scar. Degradation of tissue. So treating it like it's an inflammation (e.g. with NSAIDS or cortisone shots) might not be the way to go, is what many are saying now. Sorry if you're already familiar with this - a lot of people aren't; just wanted to mention it, in case.)
No worries. Glad you're feeling relief!0
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