Am I doing cardio or strength?

kindrabbit

Hi
I wonder if I can get your opinion. I have read that its recommended to eat approx 50% of your cardio calories but that there is no accurate way to count your strength training calories so people tend not to record them.

I am not sure whether my workouts are strength or cardio as there is an aspect of both. If I give you the example of what I have done this afternoon can you tell me what you think?

Hrm on:
5 min fast walk 6kph
10 min jog 9.5 kph
500m row
50 thrusters (15kg bar) with atg squat and minimal pause to catch breath
250m row
25 thrusters
100m
10 thrusters
heavy deadlift:
I lifted 60kg X 5. Every set done on the minute if that makes sense.
Squats with 25kg kettle bell
I then realised that my hr had dropped below 130 so I paused the HRM.
20 lunges with 6kg bicep curls
some 6kg arm raises front and lateral (I've had a shoulder injury so going easy and light with that)
I then turned HRM back on and did 5 mins stepper and 10 mins elliptical.

The HRM said I've burned 451 calories in 50 minutes. I feel I'd be cheating if I put 451 into the MFP exercise thingie but I think I deserve some of them!

TIA
Karen

brianpperkins

You're doing both. The HRM might come close to an accurate caloric estimate for the rowing and running ... it won't accurately estimate for the any of the lifting.

cwolfman13

It's not "strength" but it's not steady state aerobic cardio either...what you're doing is going to cause spikes in your HR which is going to artificially inflate your calorie burn. Basically you're doing circuit training which is very good for your overall fitness and it's a good way to get a combination of resistance work and cardiovascular work.

HRMs are only reasonably accurate for steady state aerobic events (i.e. running, elliptical, etc)...they are not all that accurate for anaerobic activities. Your calorie burn is not directly correlated to your HR...your HR is just used in an algorithm in the machine to estimate some level of VO2 max that you are working and anaerobic activity isn't a good indicator of that...so the machine also would have to assume a steady state aerobic event.

kindrabbit

so what figure would you put into MFP? I put 300. Maybe that's too much?

Capt_Apollo

Karen_libert wrote: »

Hi
I wonder if I can get your opinion. I have read that its recommended to eat approx 50% of your cardio calories but that there is no accurate way to count your strength training calories so people tend not to record them.

people that tend to do a lot of weight lifting and some cardio tend to eat at TDEE-10% or whatever to maintain a deficit, and not count there exercise calories at all.

kindrabbit

cwolfman13 wrote: »

It's not "strength" but it's not steady state aerobic cardio either...what you're doing is going to cause spikes in your HR which is going to artificially inflate your calorie burn. Basically you're doing circuit training which is very good for your overall fitness and it's a good way to get a combination of resistance work and cardiovascular work.

HRMs are only reasonably accurate for steady state aerobic events (i.e. running, elliptical, etc)...they are not all that accurate for anaerobic activities. Your calorie burn is not directly correlated to your HR...your HR is just used in an algorithm in the machine to estimate some level of VO2 max that you are working and anaerobic activity isn't a good indicator of that...so the machine also would have to assume a steady state aerobic event.

I did pause it when my HR went below 130. The rest of the time it was at 130 or over (up around 160/170 during those thrusters!)

I like doing 'circuits' because I like my HR to be up and I like to get a sweat on. I don't see the point in lifting heavy then sitting and checking your phone for 10 minutes between sets. Get in and get it done!

thanks for the reply

margaretlb4

Capt_apollo - can you explain TDEE-10%? thanks!

people that tend to do a lot of weight lifting and some cardio tend to eat at TDEE-10% or whatever to maintain a deficit, and not count there exercise calories at all.[/quote]

kindrabbit

Capt_Apollo wrote: »

Karen_libert wrote: »

Hi
I wonder if I can get your opinion. I have read that its recommended to eat approx 50% of your cardio calories but that there is no accurate way to count your strength training calories so people tend not to record them.

people that tend to do a lot of weight lifting and some cardio tend to eat at TDEE-10% or whatever to maintain a deficit, and not count there exercise calories at all.

That would increase my allowance by a lot. I am happy with the rate I'm loosing. Is there a benefit in slowing the loss or am I OK keeping my allowance where I am with the 500 cal deficit?

I do:
Tuesday Boxercise
Wednesday either steady state 10k run (1hr) or a home You Tube video on the TV 45 min full body something or other, whatever I like the look of on the day.
Friday Strength
Sunday circuits

I'm on 1440 a day (including the 500 cal deficit that MFP gives me)
TDEE - 10% would put me up at 1796

I aim for 1 cal a week but because I've only just started I put on 2 the first week, lost 7lb the second week, stayed the same the third week and lost 3 this week. Of course I am quite happy with that and happy for it to continue like that!

cwolfman13

Karen_libert wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

It's not "strength" but it's not steady state aerobic cardio either...what you're doing is going to cause spikes in your HR which is going to artificially inflate your calorie burn. Basically you're doing circuit training which is very good for your overall fitness and it's a good way to get a combination of resistance work and cardiovascular work.

HRMs are only reasonably accurate for steady state aerobic events (i.e. running, elliptical, etc)...they are not all that accurate for anaerobic activities. Your calorie burn is not directly correlated to your HR...your HR is just used in an algorithm in the machine to estimate some level of VO2 max that you are working and anaerobic activity isn't a good indicator of that...so the machine also would have to assume a steady state aerobic event.

I did pause it when my HR went below 130. The rest of the time it was at 130 or over (up around 160/170 during those thrusters!)

I like doing 'circuits' because I like my HR to be up and I like to get a sweat on. I don't see the point in lifting heavy then sitting and checking your phone for 10 minutes between sets. Get in and get it done!

thanks for the reply

Circuit training is good fitness...but there is definitely a point to lifting heavy and taking rest...that's how you develop awesome strength. I can be in and out in 45 - 60 minutes with a solid strength program. But it really just depends on what you're shooting for...circuits are good for overall fitness and stamina.

Really, I usually recommend people mix in cycles of this type of work with heavy work and hypertrophy work...I pretty much cycle everything throughout the year...sticking with one specific thing gets boring and you don't get as much benefit as you do switching things up periodically...of course, this again depends on your goals...someone who wants to be a power lifter is obviously going to benefit from lifting heavy most, if not all of the time...but for general fitness, people should mix it up.

In RE to using your HRM....the problem is not that you are going under 130 or whatever...it's the spikes in HR that are going to inflate your calorie burn. There is no direct correlation to your HR and calorie burn...if there was, I'd just have someone come scare me every 5 minutes and I wouldn't have to put in all the work I do.

jennifershoo

cwolfman13 wrote: »

It's not "strength" but it's not steady state aerobic cardio either...what you're doing is going to cause spikes in your HR which is going to artificially inflate your calorie burn. Basically you're doing circuit training which is very good for your overall fitness and it's a good way to get a combination of resistance work and cardiovascular work.

HRMs are only reasonably accurate for steady state aerobic events (i.e. running, elliptical, etc)...they are not all that accurate for anaerobic activities. Your calorie burn is not directly correlated to your HR...your HR is just used in an algorithm in the machine to estimate some level of VO2 max that you are working and anaerobic activity isn't a good indicator of that...so the machine also would have to assume a steady state aerobic event.

This^

I wouldn't trust the HRM at all.
I would probably just eat back 100 or 200 cals and readjust in a few weeks if there is no weight loss.

brianpperkins

Karen_libert wrote: »

Capt_Apollo wrote: »

Karen_libert wrote: »

Hi
I wonder if I can get your opinion. I have read that its recommended to eat approx 50% of your cardio calories but that there is no accurate way to count your strength training calories so people tend not to record them.

people that tend to do a lot of weight lifting and some cardio tend to eat at TDEE-10% or whatever to maintain a deficit, and not count there exercise calories at all.

That would increase my allowance by a lot. I am happy with the rate I'm loosing. Is there a benefit in slowing the loss or am I OK keeping my allowance where I am with the 500 cal deficit?

I do:
Tuesday Boxercise
Wednesday either steady state 10k run (1hr) or a home You Tube video on the TV 45 min full body something or other, whatever I like the look of on the day.
Friday Strength
Sunday circuits

I'm on 1440 a day (including the 500 cal deficit that MFP gives me)
TDEE - 10% would put me up at 1796

I aim for 1 cal a week but because I've only just started I put on 2 the first week, lost 7lb the second week, stayed the same the third week and lost 3 this week. Of course I am quite happy with that and happy for it to continue like that!

If you're aiming for 1 pound per week .. you're doubling your planned loss right now. If your ticker is accurate .. 1/2 pound per week is more reasonable if you want to preserve lean body mass.

esjones12

I use my HRM for similar circuit training. It's the only way to measure intensity. I was eating only 50% back of what it was telling me and I was dying. I was also doing 8-10hrs a week of high intensity though, so that may have made a difference. I had to up it to 75-80% eat back to function normally.

It is hard to get any accurate read with anything. Ball parks are nice, you just have to adjust. Your workout definitely burned some calories and you should eat some of those back or you may start getting symptoms of eating too little (headache, hungry, tired, etc). Use your HRM as a starting point....eat x% back for a few weeks. Check the scale. If you are losing and feel fine, do what is working. If you are losing but feel weak/tired/etc then you need to eat more % back. If you aren't losing, then you should decrease the %.

kindrabbit

I'd just have someone come scare me every 5 minutes and I wouldn't have to put in all the work I do. [/quote]

OO, maybe I'll try that next!

Capt_Apollo

Karen_libert wrote: »

Capt_Apollo wrote: »

Karen_libert wrote: »

Hi
I wonder if I can get your opinion. I have read that its recommended to eat approx 50% of your cardio calories but that there is no accurate way to count your strength training calories so people tend not to record them.

people that tend to do a lot of weight lifting and some cardio tend to eat at TDEE-10% or whatever to maintain a deficit, and not count there exercise calories at all.

That would increase my allowance by a lot. I am happy with the rate I'm loosing. Is there a benefit in slowing the loss or am I OK keeping my allowance where I am with the 500 cal deficit?

I do:
Tuesday Boxercise
Wednesday either steady state 10k run (1hr) or a home You Tube video on the TV 45 min full body something or other, whatever I like the look of on the day.
Friday Strength
Sunday circuits

I'm on 1440 a day (including the 500 cal deficit that MFP gives me)
TDEE - 10% would put me up at 1796

I aim for 1 cal a week but because I've only just started I put on 2 the first week, lost 7lb the second week, stayed the same the third week and lost 3 this week. Of course I am quite happy with that and happy for it to continue like that!

you can try tdee-15% if you prefer. the loss will slow down anyway, because in the beginning your body is going to lose a lot of weight no matter what. it'll slow down a bit, but it'll be more maintainable with more calories

kindrabbit

esjones12 wrote: »

I use my HRM for similar circuit training. It's the only way to measure intensity. I was eating only 50% back of what it was telling me and I was dying. I was also doing 8-10hrs a week of high intensity though, so that may have made a difference. I had to up it to 75-80% eat back to function normally.

It is hard to get any accurate read with anything. Ball parks are nice, you just have to adjust. Your workout definitely burned some calories and you should eat some of those back or you may start getting symptoms of eating too little (headache, hungry, tired, etc). Use your HRM as a starting point....eat x% back for a few weeks. Check the scale. If you are losing and feel fine, do what is working. If you are losing but feel weak/tired/etc then you need to eat more % back. If you aren't losing, then you should decrease the %.

Sounds like a plan, thank you. I'm just getting into the swing of things and am happy with my losses and the way I'm feeling currently. I tend to eat back my exercise depending on how hungry I am so it ranges from none to all. Because my loss has been better than expected I've got a bit of wiggle room I think.

I did use to do full lifting sessions but just lately I'm enjoying the buzz of a quick, high intensity workout. I'm even doing home exercise videos and I never thought I'd do that! As I'm not training for anything in particular except feeling great and enjoying myself, I go with what I enjoy.

Friday nights are particularly wiggly!

In fact, it just occurred to me, maybe I'm enjoying the high intensity because I want to burn the extra calories so I can eat more food! That sounds like something I'd do!!