Plateaus explained
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Plateaus explained
You're eating too damn much ...stoppit
...you're welcome
Or even just... you know.... natural fluctuations. So if you have a small deficit for instance, or you are constantly changing your exercise routine, or consistently not pooping regularly, or your sodium levels vary all the time, that can easily mask fat loss on the scale. PLUS if you only weigh once a week you may just be weighing consistently on "bad" days.0 -
Amanda4change wrote: »Leptin
noun
1.a hormone that is thought to suppress appetite and speed up metabolism.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/leptin ?s=t)
Sounds like it isn't 100% if it actually "speeds up metabolism" or not.
Dig a little deeper into the functionality of Leptin. It also regulates your energy expenditure (BMR).
Do you have some peer reviewed studies to share? Where did you get your information?
A google search of leptin just gives me a whole lot of blogs telling me to reset my leptin levels.
Yes. Here is a article that explains Leptin in terms of weight loss: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark60.htm
And here is a peer-reviewed article: http://www.jci.org/articles/view/45888Our current understanding of leptin action on energy balance is largely based on animal research and, therefore, one may wonder how much we have really learned about leptin action in the human brain
It sounds like they don't really know either. That's from your peer reviewed study.
According to OP's "study" obese people have low levels of Leptin, yet according to this study (as well as others) Leptin levels are HIGH in obese people: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17212793/
Some years ago I was doing some research on leptin and ghrelin in lab rats and propensity towards weight gain. The results were pretty much inconclusive.
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The first time I heard of Leptin was a couple of weeks ago. I was very skeptical because I'd never heard of it before and it was being used to sell a product. I think more studies need to be done before we can draw conclusions about it. It's interesting, but I don't think anything has been proven.0
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Lept-in
Lept-out
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »Amanda4change wrote: »Leptin
noun
1.a hormone that is thought to suppress appetite and speed up metabolism.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/leptin ?s=t)
Sounds like it isn't 100% if it actually "speeds up metabolism" or not.
Dig a little deeper into the functionality of Leptin. It also regulates your energy expenditure (BMR).
Do you have some peer reviewed studies to share? Where did you get your information?
A google search of leptin just gives me a whole lot of blogs telling me to reset my leptin levels.
Yes. Here is a article that explains Leptin in terms of weight loss: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark60.htm
And here is a peer-reviewed article: http://www.jci.org/articles/view/45888Our current understanding of leptin action on energy balance is largely based on animal research and, therefore, one may wonder how much we have really learned about leptin action in the human brain
It sounds like they don't really know either. That's from your peer reviewed study.
According to OP's "study" obese people have low levels of Leptin, yet according to this study (as well as others) Leptin levels are HIGH in obese people: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17212793/
Those were studies done 6 years prior to the one I posted. The study of Leptin is still relatively new. Also, if people here are coming for confrontation, you are not going to find it. I do deserve the ridicule for my mix up of hormones because it was a careless mistake, and I apologize. I came across Leptin because I've been researching the reasoning by why some people are able to reach very lower body fat percentages with virtually no plateaus. They do this with a caloric deficit with consistent re-feed days to boost metabolism back up due to lower Leptin levels, which reduce BMR.
Except I'm not aware of studies confirming this belief of reduced BMR from a reasonable deficit (and not just a reduced BMR from the reduction of overall weight itself). Sure, many have found a re-feed day helpful in adherence to an otherwise overly large deficit, but not that it affects BMR in any meaningful way.
I'm not saying the belief isn't out there...it certainly is...everywhere you look (and, of course, by those selling you the idea), but the science that I'm aware of (and my own personal experience of daily logging for three+ years) has not yet demonstrated the belief is valid.
I sincerely appreciate your non-hostile response. The article I posted: http://www.jci.org/articles/view/45888
and
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark60.htm
talk about Leptin levels affecting your energy expenditure
"Since its discovery, leptin has been found to have profound effects on behavior, metabolic rate, endocrine axes, and glucose fluxes. Leptin deficiency in mice and humans causes morbid obesity, diabetes, and various neuroendocrine anomalies, and replacement leads to decreased food intake, normalized glucose homeostasis, and increased energy expenditure."
I was always fascinated on why people were getting such great results with re-feed days. This is just the science behind it.
So you're saying that leptin is a thermogenic food then.0 -
You know I don't have issues with refeeds eg eating at maintenance for a couple of weeks ..it does a body and mind good
A days refeed as a must-do though ...meh0 -
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Honestly, a day's "refeed" once a week sounds like a great way to wipe out a deficit and bunkum to justify cheat days, no matter how it was advised to eat on that day.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Honestly, a day's "refeed" once a week sounds like a great way to wipe out a deficit and bunkum to justify cheat days, no matter how it was advised to eat on that day.
I've done a proper refeed (minimum fat, high carb, at or above maintenance needs) once, and I've had single maintenance days thrown in. If doing a refeed/maintenance day it's not enough to wipe out the deficit entirely, it will just make it smaller. So e.g. if maintenance is 2500 and you eat 2000 every day for a 1lb/week loss, then eating 2500 once a week would result in a 2070 average intake, so a bit less than a lb a week lost. So they are definitely still great additions for sanity and just general preference, but I doubt they will play a role in weight loss in the long term.
But not tracking and just stuffing your face.... will probably have more consequences. I've definitely noticed more loss right after high calorie intake, but it's mostly water loss and such.0 -
If you can find the BBC program 'what diet is right for you'. It will explain the role of liptin. The hormone is produced by fat cells to send messages to the brain to let it know what the body's fat stores are. As the body decreases it's amount of fat less liptin is produced informing the brain that it needs restocking so appetite can increase. In some people the liptin levels are disproportionate to the actual level of body fat there is so the brain is getting incorrect information. So some obese people have the less liptin going to the brain then they should sending the message that they need to increase their body fat thus increasing appetite. These people are people who feel constantly hungry and think about food all the time even after they have just ate.
The program was really good and looked into other factors such as genetics and psychological reasons for why some people over eat.
I'm sorry but one study that is 60 years old is not sufficient evidence for your claims.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »
Honestly, a day's "refeed" once a week sounds like a great way to wipe out a deficit and bunkum to justify cheat days, no matter how it was advised to eat on that day.
Hmm. I lost over 30lbs and went from overweight to competing in a bodybuilding competition doing a cheat day once a week. Once I got closer to the competition it did change to a cheat meal.
I actually found that I learned a lot about my cravings and what food I actually liked. Even on a "cheat day" you can only eat so much. When you are so restricted the rest of the week, you start to learn what food is really "good". I'd have to choose what I was going to eat. I started finding that some foods just weren't "worth" it as they didn't taste as good or I'd rather something else.
And when I was craving something during the week, I'd put it on my mental list of cheat foods that weekend which helped me get through the craving. Most of the time by the time I was "allowed" to eat it, I didn't want it anymore either.
I found I learned a ton and it was really helpful to me.
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Hes already on another thread spouting this and people are following his advice, rather than accpet they could possibly be eating more than they think and burning less.-1
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A TRUE plateau is 6 weeks or more if one is CONSISTENT with calories in/out. In honesty, I've only dealt with 1 person as a client who experienced a true plateau and they were diabetic.
The rest of the ones that said they were on a plateau truthfully admitted they overate, over drank or under burned calories. Once one does that, it's NO LONGER a plateau. It's a stall. Which does apply to the majority of people stalled at weight loss. So whenever people feel stuck, it's more than likely to inaccuracy and inconsistency even if for a day.
Just a quick note: whenever anyone goes on a calorie deficit for a period of time, metabolic rate automatically drops. Physiology 101.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
Honestly, a day's "refeed" once a week sounds like a great way to wipe out a deficit and bunkum to justify cheat days, no matter how it was advised to eat on that day.
I've done a proper refeed (minimum fat, high carb, at or above maintenance needs) once, and I've had single maintenance days thrown in. If doing a refeed/maintenance day it's not enough to wipe out the deficit entirely, it will just make it smaller. So e.g. if maintenance is 2500 and you eat 2000 every day for a 1lb/week loss, then eating 2500 once a week would result in a 2070 average intake, so a bit less than a lb a week lost. So they are definitely still great additions for sanity and just general preference, but I doubt they will play a role in weight loss in the long term.
But not tracking and just stuffing your face.... will probably have more consequences. I've definitely noticed more loss right after high calorie intake, but it's mostly water loss and such.
I'm an old short lady, and my margins aren't as large as yours, so though I'd probably still come out ahead, it would not be by much. I should have more accurately said that doing a weekly refeed will bite into your deficit. That's presuming you're going for something like a pound a week. When you're down closer to goal and it's half a pound or less a week?
I don't know. I've run the numbers on IIFYM on my goal weight TDEE and BMR. There's not too many calories between them.
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3dogsrunning wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
Honestly, a day's "refeed" once a week sounds like a great way to wipe out a deficit and bunkum to justify cheat days, no matter how it was advised to eat on that day.
Hmm. I lost over 30lbs and went from overweight to competing in a bodybuilding competition doing a cheat day once a week. Once I got closer to the competition it did change to a cheat meal.
I actually found that I learned a lot about my cravings and what food I actually liked. Even on a "cheat day" you can only eat so much. When you are so restricted the rest of the week, you start to learn what food is really "good". I'd have to choose what I was going to eat. I started finding that some foods just weren't "worth" it as they didn't taste as good or I'd rather something else.
And when I was craving something during the week, I'd put it on my mental list of cheat foods that weekend which helped me get through the craving. Most of the time by the time I was "allowed" to eat it, I didn't want it anymore either.
I found I learned a ton and it was really helpful to me.
I might be limited in thinking because of my calorie goal (which is limited by my age and height). I also am not the type to crave towards cheating, so that has some influence in what's going on with my position.
Congratulations on your loss AND for finding a way to fit in all the foods you loved.
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Maybe what works for you doesn't work for the above people, but I just want to thank you for trying to help others based on your experiences and I'm sorry you got roasted - but it's the nature of the beast on MFP. Best wishes on your journey.0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
Honestly, a day's "refeed" once a week sounds like a great way to wipe out a deficit and bunkum to justify cheat days, no matter how it was advised to eat on that day.
I've done a proper refeed (minimum fat, high carb, at or above maintenance needs) once, and I've had single maintenance days thrown in. If doing a refeed/maintenance day it's not enough to wipe out the deficit entirely, it will just make it smaller. So e.g. if maintenance is 2500 and you eat 2000 every day for a 1lb/week loss, then eating 2500 once a week would result in a 2070 average intake, so a bit less than a lb a week lost. So they are definitely still great additions for sanity and just general preference, but I doubt they will play a role in weight loss in the long term.
But not tracking and just stuffing your face.... will probably have more consequences. I've definitely noticed more loss right after high calorie intake, but it's mostly water loss and such.
I'm an old short lady, and my margins aren't as large as yours, so though I'd probably still come out ahead, it would not be by much. I should have more accurately said that doing a weekly refeed will bite into your deficit. That's presuming you're going for something like a pound a week. When you're down closer to goal and it's half a pound or less a week?
I don't know. I've run the numbers on IIFYM on my goal weight TDEE and BMR. There's not too many calories between them.
If your maintenance is say... 1500, you eat 1500 once a week, then your average intake would be 1240. so again, just a slightly slower weight loss rate.
You can stick to 1lb/week even if you have 5lbs to lose, it's rec'd you lower the goal for satiety purposes. But if you know that you want to have a 0.5lb/week rate and you want to do a once-weekly refeed/maintenance day, then you can adjust your intake so that the weekly average = 0.5lb/week. E.g if maintenance at 2500 and wanting to eat 2250 for a generic 0.5lb/week estimated loss, then you'd eat 2200 6x a week, 2500 once a week, gets you just short of 2250 daily average. You can have a 3000 calorie day if you want, and then 2125 6x a week, etc.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »Amanda4change wrote: »Leptin
noun
1.a hormone that is thought to suppress appetite and speed up metabolism.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/leptin ?s=t)
Sounds like it isn't 100% if it actually "speeds up metabolism" or not.
Dig a little deeper into the functionality of Leptin. It also regulates your energy expenditure (BMR).
Do you have some peer reviewed studies to share? Where did you get your information?
A google search of leptin just gives me a whole lot of blogs telling me to reset my leptin levels.
Yes. Here is a article that explains Leptin in terms of weight loss: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark60.htm
And here is a peer-reviewed article: http://www.jci.org/articles/view/45888Our current understanding of leptin action on energy balance is largely based on animal research and, therefore, one may wonder how much we have really learned about leptin action in the human brain
It sounds like they don't really know either. That's from your peer reviewed study.
According to OP's "study" obese people have low levels of Leptin, yet according to this study (as well as others) Leptin levels are HIGH in obese people: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17212793/
Those were studies done 6 years prior to the one I posted. The study of Leptin is still relatively new. Also, if people here are coming for confrontation, you are not going to find it. I do deserve the ridicule for my mix up of hormones because it was a careless mistake, and I apologize. I came across Leptin because I've been researching the reasoning by why some people are able to reach very lower body fat percentages with virtually no plateaus. They do this with a caloric deficit with consistent re-feed days to boost metabolism back up due to lower Leptin levels, which reduce BMR.
Except I'm not aware of studies confirming this belief of reduced BMR from a reasonable deficit (and not just a reduced BMR from the reduction of overall weight itself). Sure, many have found a re-feed day helpful in adherence to an otherwise overly large deficit, but not that it affects BMR in any meaningful way.
I'm not saying the belief isn't out there...it certainly is...everywhere you look (and, of course, by those selling you the idea), but the science that I'm aware of (and my own personal experience of daily logging for three+ years) has not yet demonstrated the belief is valid.
I sincerely appreciate your non-hostile response. The article I posted: http://www.jci.org/articles/view/45888
and
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/sclark60.htm
talk about Leptin levels affecting your energy expenditure
"Since its discovery, leptin has been found to have profound effects on behavior, metabolic rate, endocrine axes, and glucose fluxes. Leptin deficiency in mice and humans causes morbid obesity, diabetes, and various neuroendocrine anomalies, and replacement leads to decreased food intake, normalized glucose homeostasis, and increased energy expenditure."
I was always fascinated on why people were getting such great results with re-feed days. This is just the science behind it.
A questions for you:
How long of a prolonged deficit does it take for Leptin levels to drop to the point where hunger is hard to control?
How susceptible to low Leptin levels are obese individuals? Does the amount of fat in the extra amount of fat cells they have result in affected the susceptibility of obese individuals getting low Leptin levels?
At what body fat stage would a lean individual getting leaner need to start worrying about Leptin or is it something they need to address before they get lean?
Is the theory that low Leptin levels leading to obesity a result of increased appetite which leads to over consumption of food?
Is it possible to confuse the feeling of low Leptin with that of high Ghrelin?
You mentioned refeeds, how often should someone be refeeding in order to increase leptin?
How many continuous days of over feeding do we need in order to impact leptin and how long does that last?
Listen, as most of you have probably realized, I'm not an expert on Leptin. I know that re-feed days have helped people (me included) get great results who were struggling to lose weight with prolonged deficits. I noticed that when I hit around 22% body fat, I could no longer lose fat anymore, and others like me have had the same problem. I heard people were doing periodic re-feed days to increase your metabolism. It seemed like the leaner the individual got, the shorter the intervals of re-feeds days were needed to get your desired body fat percentage.
In the body building community, re-feeds days are very well-known and accepted. I wanted to try and figure out the science behind why they work, and Leptin was the result.
I'm not advocating crazy cheat days. Just a simple day of eating 100-200 calories over maintenance.
I also want to clear up this confusion of calories in vs. calories out. I'm not trying to debate this widely accepted rule in the weight-loss community. I might have been quite ambiguous with it in my first post, so I apologize. I'm simply trying to say that with Leptin, or for some other reason, your metabolism slows down when you have prolonged deficits, or when you are trying to lose those last 5-10lbs, which decreases what people to perceive to be the "calories out." For some reason, a re-feed day has helped me--along with other people-- break out weight-loss plateaus.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
Honestly, a day's "refeed" once a week sounds like a great way to wipe out a deficit and bunkum to justify cheat days, no matter how it was advised to eat on that day.
I've done a proper refeed (minimum fat, high carb, at or above maintenance needs) once, and I've had single maintenance days thrown in. If doing a refeed/maintenance day it's not enough to wipe out the deficit entirely, it will just make it smaller. So e.g. if maintenance is 2500 and you eat 2000 every day for a 1lb/week loss, then eating 2500 once a week would result in a 2070 average intake, so a bit less than a lb a week lost. So they are definitely still great additions for sanity and just general preference, but I doubt they will play a role in weight loss in the long term.
But not tracking and just stuffing your face.... will probably have more consequences. I've definitely noticed more loss right after high calorie intake, but it's mostly water loss and such.
I'm an old short lady, and my margins aren't as large as yours, so though I'd probably still come out ahead, it would not be by much. I should have more accurately said that doing a weekly refeed will bite into your deficit. That's presuming you're going for something like a pound a week. When you're down closer to goal and it's half a pound or less a week?
I don't know. I've run the numbers on IIFYM on my goal weight TDEE and BMR. There's not too many calories between them.
If your maintenance is say... 1500, you eat 1500 once a week, then your average intake would be 1240. so again, just a slightly slower weight loss rate.
You can stick to 1lb/week even if you have 5lbs to lose, it's rec'd you lower the goal for satiety purposes. But if you know that you want to have a 0.5lb/week rate and you want to do a once-weekly refeed/maintenance day, then you can adjust your intake so that the weekly average = 0.5lb/week. E.g if maintenance at 2500 and wanting to eat 2250 for a generic 0.5lb/week estimated loss, then you'd eat 2200 6x a week, 2500 once a week, gets you just short of 2250 daily average. You can have a 3000 calorie day if you want, and then 2125 6x a week, etc.
You know, I teach my daughter algebra on a daily basis just fine, but that paragraph made my head spin. I hear what you're saying though.
I know that refeeds at maintenance are a thing to do at some point. I've only been doing this for about four months. I'm not at that point yet.
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