Wal-Mart
Replies
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djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
I get your sentiment here, but what is the benefit to society in this viewpoint? Why would you want someone's past mistakes, possibly from more than 20 years ago, to make them an anchor to the rest of us?0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
Except you are assuming they made poor choices that led them to a minimum wage job. That's not always the case.
Did I make any claim about their choices being poor? If so, point it out. I will gladly own up to that mistake. I just claim it is their responsibility.
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tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
Specifically for patients in need of care, there are, in fact, laws that say they cannot be turned away. Those people then get billed, can't pay, and we end up picking up the cost anyway. If only there was a law that mandated people get paid enough money so that if they get sick, they can afford to take care of themselves (or at least afford the insurance to do so)...
With the exception of your last sentence, you repeated my post and worded it differently. And to avoid that, your solution is to further violate the rights of anyone who chooses to own a business. No violation of rights is acceptable.
Sorry, couldn't keep up with your edits.
Yeah, I need to preview before I post to make sure I said something the way I meant it, rather than editing. My bad.
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djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
Except you are assuming they made poor choices that led them to a minimum wage job. That's not always the case.
Did I make any claim about their choices being poor? If so, point it out. I will gladly own up to that mistake. I just claim it is their responsibility.
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Hospitals can't, by law turn you away, BUT Medical Centers can. I found that one out the hard way when I went in the ER and forgot my insurance card. I had to either pay upfront or leave. I had to drive back home, find my card and go back.... With a 104 fever.
...... But I digress.
While I'm not a huge fan of Wal Mart, they have made some improvements over the past 5 years or so. I personally prefer to shop locally at small businesses, even if that means spending a little extra. I have friends that work there. Some love it, some hate it. I still shop there when I need to get things I can't get at my store.
I have many other issues with the cooperation but that is neither here nor there. There are pros and cons any way you look at it. They do provide jobs for people who other wise wouldn't have one. They also drive out a lot of small businesses because they just can't compete. Pick you poison I guess?0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
I get your sentiment here, but what is the benefit to society in this viewpoint? Why would you want someone's past mistakes, possibly from more than 20 years ago, to make them an anchor to the rest of us?
You are under the assumption that they wouldn't be an anchor to the rest of us with a law requiring vastly higher pay for a job that is has nowhere near a free market value of that pay. You seem to be under the assumption that all these costs would be absorbed by the company, and would have not impact on anyone besides the person being paid.
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Big corporations are making record high profits while paying their employees record low wages. In a free market shouldn't those wages increase to keep up with the high profit?0
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FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
Except you are assuming they made poor choices that led them to a minimum wage job. That's not always the case.
Did I make any claim about their choices being poor? If so, point it out. I will gladly own up to that mistake. I just claim it is their responsibility.
Which has no impact on the discussion at hand. Out of my closest group of friends, one is a factory worker, and the another is a minimum wage line cook who I am actually helping get his foot in the door with the local IBEW (my dad's old union). I think I am better than no one, including them. Even though I am much better off financially. To expect one to be responsible for their own lot in life is not a sign of pride. It is a sign of someone who understands personal responsibility.
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kamakazeekim wrote: »Big corporations are making record high profits while paying their employees record low wages. In a free market shouldn't those wages increase to keep up with the high profit?
gotta source on the record low wages?0 -
kamakazeekim wrote: »Big corporations are making record high profits while paying their employees record low wages. In a free market shouldn't those wages increase to keep up with the high profit?
Yes, but the big corporations and their executives prefer to keep the money for themselves. A typical scenario is this: Big corporation has a concern. Hires a new CEO. New CEO fires thousands of people. Stockholders are happy. Employees take pay cuts. Two years later new CEO is out with big golden parachute. Repeat the cycle.
As far as Walmart is concerned, I think Walmart is just one of many.
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I don't have my books with me currently but it is well documented that the wages in America have not kept pace with rising inflation. The department of labor states that while the federal minimum wage was only $3.35 per hour in 1981 and is currently $7.25 per hour in real dollars, when adjusted for inflation, the current federal minimum wage would need to be more than $8 per hour to equal its buying power of the early 1980s and more nearly $11 per hour to equal its buying power of the late 1960s.
Worker productivity has more than doubled since 1968, and if the minimum wage had kept pace with productivity gains it would have been $21.72 last year. From 2000 to 2012 alone workers boosted their productivity by 25 percent yet saw their earnings fall rather than rise, leading some economists to label the early 21st century a lost decade for American workers.
Business Insider has this article about record high profits with record low wages http://www.businessinsider.com/profits-at-high-wages-at-low-2013-4
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pay cuts are relatively rare. they are not well received, so typically people just get fired and someone new is hired on at lower salary.
Essentially the same thing, but not...0 -
djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »djeffreys10 wrote: »ForStMicheal wrote: »^^ maybe under the new affordable care act, but in the past those people would have made to much to qualify for Medicaid and would basically be screwed out of health insurance.
Nobody has a right to the services of anyone else. Those services must be purchased. Doctors are not an exception to that rule.
Except they are. Maybe not at an individual practice, but a patient in need of care cannot be turned away from a hospital.
Except they aren't. You act as if there are no laws that violates the rights of an individual. The doctor is still paid for his/her time. It is those of us who made better choices in life left to unfairly foot the bill of those who did not.
You don't know anyone's life story. You don't know the life choices made by a person who works at Walmart. You don't know why they are working at Walmart. They could've been a successful business man who was laid off but still had a family to support so he took what he could find. I suggest a little less judging and a little more compassion.
You seem to think you are better than everyone else. THAT attitude is not valuable in any workplace.
But I do know that life is a summation of the choices made. And it is your responsibility to live with your choices. Furthermore, it is not the fault of any future employer that a businessman got laid off and has a family to support. Not even Wal-Mart. And it has no impact on what he should be paid.
I get your sentiment here, but what is the benefit to society in this viewpoint? Why would you want someone's past mistakes, possibly from more than 20 years ago, to make them an anchor to the rest of us?
You are under the assumption that they wouldn't be an anchor to the rest of us with a law requiring vastly higher pay for a job that is has nowhere near a free market value of that pay. You seem to be under the assumption that all these costs would be absorbed by the company, and would have not impact on anyone besides the person being paid.
So, why are you assuming they will be an anchor? I do know that cost analyses have been performed on how higher wages would be passed on to the consumer, and, if memory serves correct, the effect on product pricing is minimal. I'll try to find some of the analyses I've seen.0 -
kamakazeekim wrote: »The department of labor states that while the federal minimum wage was only $3.35 per hour in 1981 and is currently $7.25 per hour in real dollars, when adjusted for inflation, the current federal minimum wage would need to be more than $8 per hour to equal its buying power of the early 1980s and more nearly $11 per hour to equal its buying power of the late 1960s.
Not true in real world situations. Having lived on my own in the 80's I can tell you that $3.35 minimum wage has about as much buying power as the current minimum wage. It was exactly what it should be, which is enough to get the basics with some caveats.
I had to live with roommates, ate cheap food. didn't have cable TV or a cell phone, and tried to find ways to make going to college a reality. None of which included food stamps or other government supplements. I did use students loans which I paid back over A LOT of years, but that was a small price for the long term gain of my degree. I worked 3 jobs at one point just to make it work. Same with my wife.
Even after getting degrees and "decent" jobs, we had hand-me-down furniture, cars, clothes, and all kinds of stuff. I didn't own a house until I was almost 30, didn't build a house until I was almost 40, didn't have a new car until I was in my 30's, and really never got into anything trendy. We also saved for retirement along the way somehow.
Sorry. But I do a lot of hiring of new employees and the quality of younger people in the workforce is (overall/generally) VERY low compared to when I was one of those younger people. Many come in with no skills, low ambition and work ethic, and a high expectation for pay and position based on nothing more than (as someone said earlier), just because. I have seen this for years now. Albeit anecdotal, it still rings with some truth.
Too many younger people today do not have the common sense and lack of pride it takes to work hard, work their way up the ladder, and to sacrifice to make it all work. Working at a college, I get to see many who do though, so I have hope.
My bottom line would be. Forget minimum raise increases, put heavy restrictions on welfare programs, and make free education and trade training a priority.
Anyway, if you don't like Walmart, just vote with your dollars and don't shop there. Same with any business or service.
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Wal-Mart employees should be poor.
That way, when they catch you shoplifting, you can bribe them to let you go with less money than the article you stole was worth.
The system just wouldn't work if you had to spend more on bribes than you saved by stealing...0 -
kamakazeekim wrote: »The department of labor states that while the federal minimum wage was only $3.35 per hour in 1981 and is currently $7.25 per hour in real dollars, when adjusted for inflation, the current federal minimum wage would need to be more than $8 per hour to equal its buying power of the early 1980s and more nearly $11 per hour to equal its buying power of the late 1960s.
Not true in real world situations. Having lived on my own in the 80's I can tell you that $3.35 minimum wage has about as much buying power as the current minimum wage. It was exactly what it should be, which is enough to get the basics with some caveats.
I had to live with roommates, ate cheap food. didn't have cable TV or a cell phone, and tried to find ways to make going to college a reality. None of which included food stamps or other government supplements. I did use students loans which I paid back over A LOT of years, but that was a small price for the long term gain of my degree. I worked 3 jobs at one point just to make it work. Same with my wife.
Even after getting degrees and "decent" jobs, we had hand-me-down furniture, cars, clothes, and all kinds of stuff. I didn't own a house until I was almost 30, didn't build a house until I was almost 40, didn't have a new car until I was in my 30's, and really never got into anything trendy. We also saved for retirement along the way somehow.
Sorry. But I do a lot of hiring of new employees and the quality of younger people in the workforce is (overall/generally) VERY low compared to when I was one of those younger people. Many come in with no skills, low ambition and work ethic, and a high expectation for pay and position based on nothing more than (as someone said earlier), just because. I have seen this for years now. Albeit anecdotal, it still rings with some truth.
Too many younger people today do not have the common sense and lack of pride it takes to work hard, work their way up the ladder, and to sacrifice to make it all work. Working at a college, I get to see many who do though, so I have hope.
My bottom line would be. Forget minimum raise increases, put heavy restrictions on welfare programs, and make free education and trade training a priority.
Anyway, if you don't like Walmart, just vote with your dollars and don't shop there. Same with any business or service.
Brilliant, just brilliant.0 -
Hubby works at Walmart. We make enough for me to be a stay at home mom, and no we do not draw any benefits.
Although for all the bs my husband goes through, he should get paid more...0
This discussion has been closed.
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