Maximum heart rate question
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tincanonastring wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »The general guideline for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age. For light cardio, you should be at 60 - 70%, for intense cardio, you should be at 75 - 90%
What you were doing with resistance is actually a circuit training (they are misusing the name HIIT). True HIIT has you going full out for 20 - 30 seconds and then having a recovery period of 60 - 120 seconds. In that, you’ll run your heart rate up into the 95 - 110% range for that work period, and during recovery, you’re trying to get your heart rate back down to around 50 - 60%. If you’re doing this right, you’ll only be able to do this 5 - 10 cycles (I usually tap out at 8 rounds).
All of that said, I am not a fan of burning calories for the sake of losing weight. Fat loss comes from what and how much you eat. If you’re eating at a small deficit, you’ll lose weight slowly and steadily (the healthy way). Exercise should be done to improve other aspects of health (strength, endurance, muscle mass gain/retention, cardiovascular, mobility, balance, speed, agility, etc.). And then you eat back those workout calories to fuel the next workout.
Patience and persistence are the keys to success in fat loss and health improvement.
This equation would give me a maximum HR of 155 at 90%, that's the first time I've seen the second part of the 95-110% for HIIT and I'm glad to see it as I frequently go over my max heart rate and just apply the 'can I speak lucidly' / 'do I want to die?' test ... I always wondered if I got that wrong
I call it the, "Can I still dial 9-1-1" test.
Bumping for interest. I've seen a couple HIIT explanations, but this is the first I'm seeing that the peak HR should be 95-110% of max. I've been seeing 80-90% of max for peak and 50-60% for rest. I was going to post a thread today on this very topic because my peak HR seems to be a decent bit higher than what I projected at 80-90%.
@AllanMisner, do you have a source for those numbers?
Also, based on your statement of eating back exercise calories (which I do), how do you calculate the calorie loss from HIIT?
I second on links for the above @AllanMisner. From what I read, 110% of your max heart rate is a very dangerous thing to workout in.
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Funny enough I just talked to my GP this morning about working out at a high heart rate having had a Heart Attack 20 years ago at the age of 26. I was a bit worried as I often go into 165-175 bpm but he said as long as you feel ok and are not getting any pains in chest, arms, neck etc then carry on. He couldn't see it leading to any long term damage saying If anything it will make my heart stronger.
Another upside to this mornings visit was that my cholesterol is now down to 3.8 having been 5.8 before I started this fitness craze 4 months ago and that's with no medication at all only diet and exercise.
So go for it and get that heart pumping
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I never realised that a resting heart rate needs to be taken within a few minutes of waking up .. or after lying still for 10 minutes
I have no idea what my RHR is .. I've always thought it was a bit high because when I put my Polar on .. after climbing 3 flights of stairs, getting changed into gym clothes and coming back down it's always at around 80 - 90 and made me feel really unfit
maybe I'm not as bad as I thought0 -
PS .. getting changed in girl's gym clothes is a work-out in itself .. damn sports bras 0
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I never realised that a resting heart rate needs to be taken within a few minutes of waking up .. or after lying still for 10 minutes
I have no idea what my RHR is .. I've always thought it was a bit high because when I put my Polar on .. after climbing 3 flights of stairs, getting changed into gym clothes and coming back down it's always at around 80 - 90 and made me feel really unfit
maybe I'm not as bad as I thought
I have a cuppa in me within 30 minutes of waking and I then I caffeinate throughout the day, so I think upon waking is the only time I'd be accurate.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »I never realised that a resting heart rate needs to be taken within a few minutes of waking up .. or after lying still for 10 minutes
I have no idea what my RHR is .. I've always thought it was a bit high because when I put my Polar on .. after climbing 3 flights of stairs, getting changed into gym clothes and coming back down it's always at around 80 - 90 and made me feel really unfit
maybe I'm not as bad as I thought
I have a cuppa in me within 30 minutes of waking and I then I caffeinate throughout the day, so I think upon waking is the only time I'd be accurate.
Caffeine impacts too? Damn, I'm a caffeine junkie0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »The general guideline for maximum heart rate is 220 - your age. For light cardio, you should be at 60 - 70%, for intense cardio, you should be at 75 - 90%
What you were doing with resistance is actually a circuit training (they are misusing the name HIIT). True HIIT has you going full out for 20 - 30 seconds and then having a recovery period of 60 - 120 seconds. In that, you’ll run your heart rate up into the 95 - 110% range for that work period, and during recovery, you’re trying to get your heart rate back down to around 50 - 60%. If you’re doing this right, you’ll only be able to do this 5 - 10 cycles (I usually tap out at 8 rounds).
All of that said, I am not a fan of burning calories for the sake of losing weight. Fat loss comes from what and how much you eat. If you’re eating at a small deficit, you’ll lose weight slowly and steadily (the healthy way). Exercise should be done to improve other aspects of health (strength, endurance, muscle mass gain/retention, cardiovascular, mobility, balance, speed, agility, etc.). And then you eat back those workout calories to fuel the next workout.
Patience and persistence are the keys to success in fat loss and health improvement.
This equation would give me a maximum HR of 155 at 90%, that's the first time I've seen the second part of the 95-110% for HIIT and I'm glad to see it as I frequently go over my max heart rate and just apply the 'can I speak lucidly' / 'do I want to die?' test ... I always wondered if I got that wrong
I call it the, "Can I still dial 9-1-1" test.
Bumping for interest. I've seen a couple HIIT explanations, but this is the first I'm seeing that the peak HR should be 95-110% of max. I've been seeing 80-90% of max for peak and 50-60% for rest. I was going to post a thread today on this very topic because my peak HR seems to be a decent bit higher than what I projected at 80-90%.
@AllanMisner, do you have a source for those numbers?
Also, based on your statement of eating back exercise calories (which I do), how do you calculate the calorie loss from HIIT?
I second on links for the above @AllanMisner. From what I read, 110% of your max heart rate is a very dangerous thing to workout in.
It would be, if the equation he was using meant anything, but it doesn't due to variance.
The 220-Age equation has huge variance in real populations and can be off be 10-15 bpm. Others have highlighted other possible equations in this thread. They are a little better but still just guesstimates. (With errors of 7-10 beats, making 110% meaningless).
Do a lab stress test or carry out one of the "self test protocols" published on the web (and have 911 no speed dial).
Personally, my maxHR tested is 184, calculations would put it at 172 or 176.
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tincanonastring wrote: »Bumping for interest. I've seen a couple HIIT explanations, but this is the first I'm seeing that the peak HR should be 95-110% of max. I've been seeing 80-90% of max for peak and 50-60% for rest. I was going to post a thread today on this very topic because my peak HR seems to be a decent bit higher than what I projected at 80-90%.
@AllanMisner, do you have a source for those numbers?
The only effort rating I’ve seen published is 95% of VO2Max, but since that is hard to measure, I’ve adopted the max heart rate. Based on my experience with HIIT, a 95% - 110% of calculated max is about as intense as someone can maintain for 20 - 60 seconds. The “can I call 911” seems about right for perception based measurement. The point is all out, not holding back anything for the future rounds.tincanonastring wrote: »Also, based on your statement of eating back exercise calories (which I do), how do you calculate the calorie loss from HIIT?
Since calories are all estimates, I’ll just plug in a best guess. For an eight round, 30-90 second, session with five minute warm up and five minute cool down (roughly 30 minutes), I’ll estimate 250 calories. But then, I’m a 220 lb man at 20% bf, so everyone will be a little different and should tweak calorie estimates to fit themselves.
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following' =0)....always learning0
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yopeeps025 wrote: »
I second on links for the above @AllanMisner. From what I read, 110% of your max heart rate is a very dangerous thing to workout in.
I agree, but realize you aren’t training at that rate, you’re approaching that rate during a work round, then backing down.
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So to conclude, though my max HR should be about 173, it could be 10-15bpm out, therefore it could be up to about 190 which is pretty much what I think it is (or more) as I've seen it hit 185 while working out, but is around 170-175 when working very hard.
In addition caffeine impacts the number (which I suppose can also add to the possibly dangerous effect that you can have from such a high HR), though I'd like to know how much difference it can make. I usually have 1 cup of coffee in the morning and 1 mid afternoon plus cups of tea throughout the day.
I have manually adjusted my max HR on my Polar to 190, and the watch is set to warn me if I hit 90% of max so it will beep at me at 171! When this happened today (though it was set to 185 at the time and beeped at me at 167) I tried to tone down the intensity a little by taking a break for a few seconds though not sure if this is necessary.
Talking about steady state cardio and calorie burns I don't really understand why burns could be inaccurate if you are not doing this as surely the higher your heart rate the more calories you are burning, and if your HR comes down during interval training then you are not usually standing there doing nothing like in weight training workouts, but doing a cardio interval between either body weight or other exercises using weights. I would assume that the watch reduces the calories it records you as burning if your heart rate goes down, so for example with a HR of 170 I could be burning 10 cals per minute but if it drops to 150 that would go down to 8 cals per minute etc. giving you a fairly accurate figure at the end.0 -
AllanMisner, I am a 139lb woman with 31% body fat and my calorie burns per my HRM after 35 minutes including warm up and cool down are coming out at 300-340 depeding on what I've done, and around 275 if I do the same length workout on the Eliptical and Rowing machine/running machine in the gym (walking at a brisk pace). The problem is it's hard to know how accurate these things are, though surely that's what they are designed to tell you?0
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AllanMisner, I am a 139lb woman with 31% body fat and my calorie burns per my HRM after 35 minutes including warm up and cool down are coming out at 300-340 depeding on what I've done, and around 275 if I do the same length workout on the Eliptical and Rowing machine/running machine in the gym (walking at a brisk pace). The problem is it's hard to know how accurate these things are, though surely that's what they are designed to tell you?
I would say follow it to the T and see if it is correct. Most of these things are all guesstimates. Also some people do find there HRM and right on or a little off with the calorie counts.
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Talking about steady state cardio and calorie burns I don't really understand why burns could be inaccurate if you are not doing this as surely the higher your heart rate the more calories you are burning, and if your HR comes down during interval training then you are not usually standing there doing nothing like in weight training workouts, but doing a cardio interval between either body weight or other exercises using weights. I would assume that the watch reduces the calories it records you as burning if your heart rate goes down, so for example with a HR of 170 I could be burning 10 cals per minute but if it drops to 150 that would go down to 8 cals per minute etc. giving you a fairly accurate figure at the end.
On a HIIT or while weight lifting (two things that HRM don’t work well for measuring calories) your heart rate goes up during the intense session, and slowly comes down. So, if you sprinted 100 meters and then just stopped and stood there, your heart rate would surge up and then slowly decline. Are you burning calories while your standing there at the rate your heart would indicate? No, you are not. Your higher heart rate carries over a lighter activity until it resettles (even if you’re moving some) and as a result, overstates your calorie burn.
Looking at it another way, if heart rate was an exact measure of calorie expenditure, then you’d burn more calories watching an action or horror movie than you would for a romantic comedy. Do you think that would be the case?
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AllanMisner wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Bumping for interest. I've seen a couple HIIT explanations, but this is the first I'm seeing that the peak HR should be 95-110% of max. I've been seeing 80-90% of max for peak and 50-60% for rest. I was going to post a thread today on this very topic because my peak HR seems to be a decent bit higher than what I projected at 80-90%.
@AllanMisner, do you have a source for those numbers?
The only effort rating I’ve seen published is 95% of VO2Max, but since that is hard to measure, I’ve adopted the max heart rate. Based on my experience with HIIT, a 95% - 110% of calculated max is about as intense as someone can maintain for 20 - 60 seconds. The “can I call 911” seems about right for perception based measurement. The point is all out, not holding back anything for the future rounds.tincanonastring wrote: »Also, based on your statement of eating back exercise calories (which I do), how do you calculate the calorie loss from HIIT?
Since calories are all estimates, I’ll just plug in a best guess. For an eight round, 30-90 second, session with five minute warm up and five minute cool down (roughly 30 minutes), I’ll estimate 250 calories. But then, I’m a 220 lb man at 20% bf, so everyone will be a little different and should tweak calorie estimates to fit themselves.
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Doesn't Tabata describe a maximum benefit with a ratio of peak:rest at 2:1, and I've seen others at 3:1, but I'd need to look at those sources. Your ratio looks reversed. Do you think that gives the same benefit?
That type of estimation is basically what I'm doing with the calorie burns. I'm a little lighter than you with a higher BF, but I've been estimating around that myself because I think my total time is a little longer. I've been working myself up to longer peak times and have settled on around 30 seconds at peak. I'm currently trying to reduce the duration of my rest times.
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AllanMisner wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »
I second on links for the above @AllanMisner. From what I read, 110% of your max heart rate is a very dangerous thing to workout in.
I agree, but realize you aren’t training at that rate, you’re approaching that rate during a work round, then backing down.
Also would you say that you are able to give 100% effort on round 1 to round 8 on your HIIT training? I know I might if I use your ratio of HIIT but I do tabata HIIT so I never really complete my workout technically.0 -
A standard tabata is 4 minutes, so the reverse of the work-recovery can be maintained. If you’re trying to do a standard HIIT, you’ll find you need a 2 to 4 times recovery to get back to baseline. I think the recovery is an important part of the HIIT workout, as you’re training your body to get ready for another session. So, I make sure I’m back to conversational mode.0
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tincanonastring wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »Bumping for interest. I've seen a couple HIIT explanations, but this is the first I'm seeing that the peak HR should be 95-110% of max. I've been seeing 80-90% of max for peak and 50-60% for rest. I was going to post a thread today on this very topic because my peak HR seems to be a decent bit higher than what I projected at 80-90%.
@AllanMisner, do you have a source for those numbers?
The only effort rating I’ve seen published is 95% of VO2Max, but since that is hard to measure, I’ve adopted the max heart rate. Based on my experience with HIIT, a 95% - 110% of calculated max is about as intense as someone can maintain for 20 - 60 seconds. The “can I call 911” seems about right for perception based measurement. The point is all out, not holding back anything for the future rounds.tincanonastring wrote: »Also, based on your statement of eating back exercise calories (which I do), how do you calculate the calorie loss from HIIT?
Since calories are all estimates, I’ll just plug in a best guess. For an eight round, 30-90 second, session with five minute warm up and five minute cool down (roughly 30 minutes), I’ll estimate 250 calories. But then, I’m a 220 lb man at 20% bf, so everyone will be a little different and should tweak calorie estimates to fit themselves.
Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Doesn't Tabata describe a maximum benefit with a ratio of peak:rest at 2:1, and I've seen others at 3:1, but I'd need to look at those sources. Your ratio looks reversed. Do you think that gives the same benefit?
That type of estimation is basically what I'm doing with the calorie burns. I'm a little lighter than you with a higher BF, but I've been estimating around that myself because I think my total time is a little longer. I've been working myself up to longer peak times and have settled on around 30 seconds at peak. I'm currently trying to reduce the duration of my rest times.
Well what benefits are we talking? His ratio would technically bring you to be more intense during your work rounds with longer rest periods.
I know when I used to do like 30 sec: 30 sec on jump rope that I was able to keep going at almost the same intensity as round one.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »
I second on links for the above @AllanMisner. From what I read, 110% of your max heart rate is a very dangerous thing to workout in.
I agree, but realize you aren’t training at that rate, you’re approaching that rate during a work round, then backing down.
Also would you say that you are able to give 100% effort on round 1 to round 8 on your HIIT training? I know I might if I use your ratio of HIIT but I do tabata HIIT so I never really complete my workout technically.
I run each round knowing it will potentially be my last. I give every round all I have, not saving anything for later. I want to get to ten, but seldom get past eight.
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