Standing overhead press PROPER form?

rainbowbow

Last night while working out with my trainer (whom i hired to correct my form) I was told i was doing completely improper form on overhead press.

I always use dumbbells and usually hit 3 sets of 7-9 with 25lbs in each hand or 3 sets of 5 with 30 in each hand.

My form has always looked EXACTLY like this-




I was told this was NO GOOD and i should be bringing the weight down JUST about to the level of my shoulders. He also instructed me that i SHOULD NOT be pressing straight up (weights almost touching at the top) but up from their current position leaving a "Y" kind of shape.

The best picture i can use to describe this is the following-




My question is this... Which is correct? Are they two different exercises entirely? I could only press (the way he instructed me) with15 pounds and left feeling defeated and weak and baby-like.

I only bought 4 sessions total with a trainer to correct my form. I have been trying to hit him up on each one of my 4 workouts i do so i can make sure my **** is straight when i'm by myself.


PLEASE HELP!!!!

rainbowbow

Bump!

bostonwolf

If you want to get stronger, switch to a barbell.

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/45_06_press.pdf
http://doubleyourgains.com/how-to-overhead-press

I tend to agree that banging the barbells together is a bad thing as it can impinge the shoulder. I don't see much of a difference between your picture and what your trainer is saying, however.

If you do OHP with a barbell and thing of where your hands are in the "finish" position, they would be closer to what your trainer is saying.

tacguy

I don't see anything "wrong" with your form. You will want to keep the weight in line with your shoulders. If the Y is too large, it could become unstable and hurt your elbow and shoulders areas.
I like to put one foot slightly forward to ensure balance, tighten my core for added stability and stand up straight and not lean back.
I like using dumbells. They require you to activate more stabilizer muscles than barbells do.

Good luck!
Joe

JNick77

With DB's I'm not sure that it matters or not if you bring the DB's together at the top of the lift, not sure what the value would be. The DB or BB should definitely come below your chin from the starting point and at the bottom of the eccentric motion. Starting from about your nose / forehead is only a partial rep. This video is pretty good to understand bar or even DB positioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae0Ya0s5pR4

M00NPYE

NROLFW book said not to bring them together at the top... I cant remember why... but I do mine just like in your first illustration, I don't form a Y, I just go straight up and don't let them touch at the top

Alphastate

Going any lower than parallel or slightly below parallel really doesn't do anything but put unnecessary strain on the muscle. Just move your arm without weight from the lowest possible to parallel and you can tell there isn't much work going on in the shoulders. Same with chest press. As far as touching, its the same thing. Your muscles let you know where they want to stop. Touching the weights will end up squeezing the shoulders together for most people.

aelunyu

Going any lower than parallel or slightly below parallel really doesn't do anything but put unnecessary strain on the muscle. Just move your arm without weight from the lowest possible to parallel and you can tell there isn't much work going on in the shoulders. Same with chest press. As far as touching, its the same thing. Your muscles let you know where they want to stop. Touching the weights will end up squeezing the shoulders together for most people.

Really have to disagree with this. But I understand where it's coming from. People that go only 90 degrees or just to parallel basically lack the flexibility to do full ROM. I used to be one of these guys that only lowered dumbells to my ears then pushed up. Fact is, injury is more a factor of inadequate flexibility or mobility rather than anything else. The more you limit ROM, the more your tendons and connective tissue dont want to stretch. This causes them to actually stiffen within that range of motion over time, therefore if one day you jerk something past its comfort range, it will strain.

Instead, the more sensible approach is to actively stretch out these tissues by pursuing full ROM. In the case of the bench press, though I agree that "touching the chest" is irrelevant, the movement of your elbows down and past your lats (breaking the lats) is quite crucial in achieving mobility in the shoulder. Moreover, in the case of a standing OHP, your elbows should be slightly ahead of your body, weights will rest naturally on the front of your shoulders near the outsides of your clavicles, from there, the intended sensation is that your back should tense up, your shoulders will drive the weight up and your head should naturally tilt back to avoid being hit by the weights. After you clear the chin/head, the head will move back into neutral position, and while the weights travel upward, they will "feel" like they're going behind you--this is purely illusory, as anything that goes behind the years "feels" like it's behind you, while infact you should have the weights exactly in your center of gravity when you finish at the top.

If you tip forward, or get on your toes, you have weak glute activation/hip stabilizers. If you tilt backwards, you have weak abdominal stability, and perhaps anterior pelvic tilt.

Alphastate

Going any lower than parallel or slightly below parallel really doesn't do anything but put unnecessary strain on the muscle. Just move your arm without weight from the lowest possible to parallel and you can tell there isn't much work going on in the shoulders. Same with chest press. As far as touching, its the same thing. Your muscles let you know where they want to stop. Touching the weights will end up squeezing the shoulders together for most people.

Really have to disagree with this. But I understand where it's coming from. People that go only 90 degrees or just to parallel basically lack the flexibility to do full ROM. I used to be one of these guys that only lowered dumbells to my ears then pushed up. Fact is, injury is more a factor of inadequate flexibility or mobility rather than anything else. The more you limit ROM, the more your tendons and connective tissue dont want to stretch. This causes them to actually stiffen within that range of motion over time, therefore if one day you jerk something past its comfort range, it will strain.

I do agree with you on some level, but when speaking specifically of a press like chest or shoulder, the extra movement, in my opinion, doesn't help as much as it could hurt. The ROM is important, but should come from other exercises within a shoulder or chest routine. If press is the only exercise you're doing for that specific muscle group, then yes, a fuller ROM could have more benefits.

JNick77

I don't understand how it hurts. You're really not placing the head of the humerus in a bad position in the socket. How many people do you see do half-rep shoulder presses and then go on to do narrow grip upright rows which do put your shoulder in a bad position? Or do DB rows and induce "gliding" which puts the humeral head right up against the wall of the socket? Dips with their arms on a box or bench behind them? All bad... I tend to read a lot from various strength coaches that train people, pro athletes especially, and have never read from one that says to not use a full ROM on the shoulder press. They do say to do other things to maintain mobility and overall shoulder health. Things like band pull-aparts, shoulder separations, etc.

ninerbuff

Form will vary from person to person due to the fact that some are more flexible than others as well as how holding the dumbells feel. Some like to do it with a neutral grip, some with a common pronated grip, some like myself like to like to hold it with an angle where it puts less strain on the elbows.
Some like to touch at the top some don't. What one shouldn't do is "lock" elbows as the top, rebound (bounce) the weight from the bottom to leverage it up (can get a really bad shoulder injury from this especially with heavier poundages) and breath incorrectly because "blacking out" could cause you to drop the weights on yourself and/or others.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

RECowgill

My question is this... Which is correct? Are they two different exercises entirely? I could only press (the way he instructed me) with15 pounds and left feeling defeated and weak and baby-like.

I only bought 4 sessions total with a trainer to correct my form. I have been trying to hit him up on each one of my 4 workouts i do so i can make sure my **** is straight when i'm by myself.


PLEASE HELP!!!!

When I do them its actually between these two, I go down almost as low as the 2nd pic and up as high as the first pic. Correct you never bang them together at the top, there's no benefit to it and its representative of a lack of control.

So these 2 pics do not represent 2 different exercises, it really depends on the kind of range of motion you want to get and the slightly different muscle emphasis. I believe in a full range of motion always, which is why I probably go deeper and up higher than most would. But I believe that that act of fully stretching the muscle as well as lifting heavy creates its own emphasis on strength building, despite the fact that some tension is lost by lifting the weights all the way through the available range. But it is not wrong. People who say you should always keep tension at the sacrifice of full range are missing out on those benefits, and probably developing little crab arms that don't bend so well.

There's probably no real, true way to do them. It comes down to a series of tradeoffs, and slightly different emphasis. Which would make your personal trainer wrong on the facts, sorry to say.

But I recently stopped doing these anyway in favor of upright rows and arnold presses. I think arnold presses are the most valuable shoulder exercise you can do.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

Use a barbell. I like to bring my hand to shoulder level at the bottom of the movement then raise my arms up (but not locked elbows) at the top of the movement.