Running/Knee Injury

timandbeckivillard

I have been doing my cardio on the treadmill and recently started running on it. Well, that didn't work out great because now I can barely walk. The pain is on the inner side of my knee and it almost has a bruised feeling. Almost zero pain when I am sitting, but get me up and walking and its horrible. I had only been running on the treadmill for a few days, and only 60 seconds at a time x3 in each session. But on the third day, I couldn't even get through the first 60 seconds. It is now a couple days after I stopped, and the pain is still there. Like I said, it is kind of a bruised feeling when I walk. I have no external bruising or even swelling. Is it possible that from those little spurts of running, I bruised the inside of my knee? The pain is only on the inner part of my knee, zero pain on the knee cap, zero pain on the outer side of my knee.

Does this injury sound familiar to anyone? If so, how long before its gone, and any remedies to help it? I have already been icing it, 20 minutes on, 30 minutes off. But the pain is still the same.

Please help!

JenMaselli

It's really common to have knee pain when you first start running or if you run slowly. My knees hurt when I first started 5 years ago but it quickly resolved with ice and I just ran through it. But if it's that painful I would definitely see a doctor and make sure you haven't torn anything. If everything is ok make sure you get fitted for good shoes and maybe some inserts. Check with your local running store. I cannot emphasize enough how important the right shoes are. Good luck!

timandbeckivillard

JenMaselli wrote: »

It's really common to have knee pain when you first start running or if you run slowly. My knees hurt when I first started 5 years ago but it quickly resolved with ice and I just ran through it. But if it's that painful I would definitely see a doctor and make sure you haven't torn anything. If everything is ok make sure you get fitted for good shoes and maybe some inserts. Check with your local running store. I cannot emphasize enough how important the right shoes are. Good luck!

Does the area that I described sound common? I feel like maybe it is internal bruising from the impact of the running maybe? It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot. If it was just on one, I would lean towards it being maybe a more serious injury like something was torn. But the fact that It is on both in the exact same spot and the exact same type of pain, leads me to believe that it is just because I wasn't used to the running...at least that is what I am HOPING Does the area that I described sound common? I feel like maybe it is internal bruising from the impact of the running maybe? It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot. If it was just on one, I would lean towards it being maybe a more serious injury like something was torn. But the fact that It is on both in the exact same spot and the exact same type of pain, leads me to believe that it is just because I wasn't used to the running...at least that is what I am HOPING

qn4bx9pzg8aifd

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

I have been doing my cardio on the treadmill and recently started running on it. Well, that didn't work out great because now I can barely walk. The pain is on the inner side of my knee and it almost has a bruised feeling. Almost zero pain when I am sitting, but get me up and walking and its horrible. I had only been running on the treadmill for a few days, and only 60 seconds at a time x3 in each session. But on the third day, I couldn't even get through the first 60 seconds. It is now a couple days after I stopped, and the pain is still there. Like I said, it is kind of a bruised feeling when I walk. I have no external bruising or even swelling. Is it possible that from those little spurts of running, I bruised the inside of my knee? The pain is only on the inner part of my knee, zero pain on the knee cap, zero pain on the outer side of my knee.

Does this injury sound familiar to anyone? If so, how long before its gone, and any remedies to help it? I have already been icing it, 20 minutes on, 30 minutes off. But the pain is still the same.

Please help!

Without knowing more -- and without knowing specific relevant information -- my initial suspicion zooms in on the vastus medialis oblique (VMO), and for several reasons.

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot.

...and subsequently reading that results in my noting its being consistent with (and whether coincidentally or not) a VMO issue...

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

I have been doing my cardio on the treadmill

Did you begin doing cardio/running on the treadmill after an extended period of time of not engaging in this type of activity?

How physically active were you in the months preceding the timeframe of engaging in activity on the treadmill? -- And if physically active during the preceding timeframe, what kinds of activity did you engage in? -- And specifically, if you did walking, how long had you been engaging in that activity, and for what kinds of per-session -based times or distances?

What kind of arches do you have? And do you have any form of orthotic in your shoes? Do you happen to know whether you experience pronation, when you stand/step? And if you originally had high arches, have they fallen at all (even 'minimally') -- ?

How new (and more to the point, how *old* or 'worn') are your shoes? -- And are they level on the bottom (of *both* shoes) (?).


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are several (as-yet-unknown) aspects that are potentially highly relevant to the circumstance, but minimally, given what you've stated, I feel compelled to convey something regarding what's known as the 'Q angle', and the vastus medialis oblique (VMO) muscle.

I'm not certain whether by < The pain is on the inner side of my knee > you mean to indicate that the pain is located on the medial side of the knee (as opposed to the outer/lateral aspect) (?), or 'inner' as in 'inner underside' of the kneecap (?) -- or whether it feels a bit like an indiscernible mix of 'both'.

It is possible (though not definitive, of course) that you could be experiencing a strained VMO (and potentially the initial 'tipping point' pain associated with patellofemoral syndrome), which can happen if any of various specific realities (or a 'mix' of such) comes into play -- and it would appear that at least a subset thereof might apply in this circumstance.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The VMO is one of the quadriceps muscles, and is critical to the stability and correct tracking of the knee, and is a kind of 'unsung hero' of the leg. Unfortunately, its location (and the nature of its insertion point) on the medial side of the knee renders it vulnerable to a kind of 'pull' that can(/does) occur, biomechanically, as a result of pronation of the foot (and the associated 'torqueing' of the tibia). And pronation is not limited to the classically interpreted 'form' of such -- it can also involve someone whose historically 'high arch' has begun to 'fall' -- which can affect the biomechanics of their gait, and can essentially involve a form of 'pronating' (strain-wise, at least, even if not 'obvious' in the way that pronation of a 'flat' or 'flexible flat' foot is). Additionally, someone whose previously-higher arch has begun to 'fall' is also prone to potentially developing plantar fasciitis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Additionally -- and importantly -- weakening of the VMO, which essentially translates to a weakening of one of the quadriceps muscles relative to the other quadriceps muscles, results in an imbalance among the quad muscles (and often involves an imbalance of the medial and lateral aspects) -- and the quadriceps are crucial to the dynamic stabilization and tracking of the knee, and subsequently, an imbalance among them can affect a multitude of associated biomechanical actions (including compensatory ones) that occur up and down that kinematic chain (all the way from the foot, to the 'shin', to the knee, to the 'thigh', to the hips, to the back, etc. -- and including the musculotendinous and musculoligamentous connections in between).

In looking at the body from the standpoint of physics, the VMO (as well as various other structures) is a kind of linchpin of sorts, especially if/when focusing on the leg, and in particular, the knee.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are several things which can contribute to a weakening of the VMO, and among such are two 'primary culprits' (so to speak) -- the VMO can become weakened via various stress-and-strain -based and/or patho(bio)mechanical realities that can occur in conjunction with pronation, and/or in conjunction with the 'Q Angle'.

The 'Q Angle' can be thought of as a proxy for the lateral force of the quadriceps femoris muscle on the knee/patella, and the strain that this can impose is especially relevant to (and prevalent among) females, due to the greater angle that exists as a result of the pelvis being wider, and subsequently, the angle at which the quadriceps muscles attach to the knee involves more 'force'/strain (there's a reason females are more susceptible to ACL tears, and the greater Q-angle is a key factor).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a nutshell, the Q-angle affects the biomechanics of the patellofemoral joint.

And in a nutshell, the VMO is a medial patellar stabilizer (and one whose importance cannot be overstated).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are many resources that can be consulted for a 'picture' of the Q-angle, but the following is one I found with a quick search, and it includes some helpful associated info -- http://www.coreconcepts.com.sg/mcr/q-angle-and-knee-pain/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A gradually worsening strain -- and associated weakening of the VMO -- can occur almost imperceptibly, over time, with certain specific changes, including that of the addition of weight. A 'pull' on the VMO can occur 'gently' (relatively speaking) if/when one walks -- and can happen without being 'noticed' if/when one does not walk 'much'... and if one becomes predominantly sedentary in conjunction with weight gain, any added strain to the VMO, along with existing weakening of the VMO (again, relatively speaking), can involve a 'brewing problem' that would not become evident unless and until that weakened and increasingly strained VMO were 'put into action', let alone 'suddenly', and especially if 'forcefully so' -- and that can and does happen in conjunction with various individuals suddenly becoming engaged in running, let alone on a treadmill 'surface' (i.e. a surface which involves harder impact than many other surfaces, and involves an associated slight (though largely imperceptible) lateral instability aspect due to the 'belt').

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Additionally, when it comes to the supporting tendons and ligaments...

There was a recent article in the New York Times regarding Mary Cain, a gifted young middle-distance runner who is being coached by Alberto Salazar. Among the many fascinating(-to-me) details mentioned in the article was something that touched on an aspect of training that I don't see discussed very often in the so called lay press, and is stated in the following excerpt (from the article = http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/08/magazine/mary-cain-is-growing-up-fast.html ) --

Now that Cain is 18, Salazar has her training at about 85 percent of the volume and intensity of his older runners. She runs 70 miles a week, while the others, including Mo Farah, run 90 or more. Years of adaptation are required to make the body’s connective tissue and small stabilizer muscles in the legs, pelvis and back durable enough to withstand the older runner’s extreme mileage.

Now, if an elite athlete requires *years* to allow for adaptation of connective tissue and small stabilizer muscles in the legs, pelvis, and back -- and granted, for some serious training mileage -- why is it that non-elite athletes so often expect relatively seamless adaptation to all manner of whatnot associated with running if/when going from 'nothing to something', and especially if/when their circumstance happens to involve added weight (and subsequently increased force on various relevant structures), and potentially imbalanced muscle strength associated with one of the most critical joints in the body, let alone, one of the most pivotal of the joints involved in and required for running (and walking, for that matter).

That being said, we can't 'beat ourselves up' for allowing our enthusiasm and motivation to get ahead of our preparedness... it's understandable... the best we can do is to learn from whatever happens, and move forward, armed with new knowledge, insight, and experience... and continue to do our best...


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qn4bx9pzg8aifd

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timandbeckivillard, it's just my opinion, but if I experienced what you've described, I would do the following, and in the following order --

1) minimize all weight-bearing movement for the next few weeks (yes, weeks / it typically takes at least two (and that's for a best case scenario), in order to 'resolve' the pain of a weakened VMO that has suddenly been taken past its 'point of vulnerability', as I've come to think of such)... icing and NSAIDs can be helpful, as well, but the greatest contributor to a kind of 'reversal' of sorts will be not putting strain on the VMO (which is to say, not putting weight 'on' it)...

Interestingly, a means by which one can alter/decrease strain on the VMO when in a weight-bearing position, if pronation was/is a contributing factor, is to wear hiking boots, and specifically, those which provide good ankle support -- that form of 'firm' support around the ankle associated with a foot that is pronating, will provide a kind of supinatory counterforce that will aid in mitigating the 'pull' on the VMO. If you don't 'see' that you pronate, but find a form of VMO relief/'support' if/when wearing hiking boots with good/firm ankle support, then it can potentially be a means by which to indirectly 'clarify' whether there is a pronatory force involved (though a podiatrist with an understanding of podiatric biomechanics should be able to evaluate and readily identify whether you're pronating, regardless of whatever degree to which it might not be 'obvious').

2) before re-engaging in *any* running (or walking -based exercise, for that matter), your circumstance would need to be evaluated -- I have no idea whether you might happen to need custom orthotics, but minimally, what I would do, if I were you, would be to (and only after the pain had subsided) engage in strengthening the VMO (which would ultimately involve strengthening all of the quadriceps muscles, to bring the relative strength of each more in 'balance' with the others)

3) only after any potential need for orthotics has been clarified and addressed, and after the VMO has -- and technically, the quads, overall have -- been strengthened (and to an extent that would allow you to engage in some walking, as exercise), would I then *carefully* and *gradually* introduce some walking into your physical activity (and I would *not* ramp up quickly, with respect to time and distance of any walking 'sessions') -- while also continuing to work on strengthening the VMO (by strengthening the quads, overall -- strengthening the VMO 'in isolation' is not only impractical, but it's also not advised -- the 'end game' is to strengthen the quad muscles relative to one another -- you want their strength to be 'balanced')... the VMO won't become stronger 'right away', and it would be important to continue to focus on strengthening it -- and keeping it strengthened -- especially if whatever contributing factors to its strain are ongoing...


Additionally, supportive shoes in good condition are essential -- (over)'worn' shoes can essentially 'introduce' a form of artificial pronation, by triggering a pronatory force if/when walking with a shoe that isn't 'level' on the bottom.

I used to be a 'cheapskate' when it came to shoes, but learned the hard way that overworn shoes can ultimately 'cost me' in the form of an injury (and a painful one, at that) that is otherwise avoidable.


Also, something to keep in mind, is that as weight decreases, strain on the VMO decreases.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It can seem like one is forced to go at somewhat of a snail's pace, when it comes to carefully proceeding, in conjunction with a weakened VMO (including a VMO whose strength one is gradually increasing), but experiencing the pain associated with a VMO that has been strained past its 'point of vulnerability' (again, as I've come to think of such, though it could technically be considered a kind of patellofemoral syndrome 'threshold'/'breach point' of sorts) essentially 'guarantees' that one will not be doing 'anything' -- so being 'better safe than sorry' becomes a mantra that is a useful 'guiding principle'... and respecting the limits one is indirectly 'granted', while one carefully ramps up, can serve one well...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are many exercises one can utilize to strengthen the quads, but not all would be advised when carefully addressing the 'rehabilitation' of a weakened VMO (for example, quad-strengthening actions that involve dynamic movement while weight-bearing, would be a recipe for more pain and strain -- instead, one would initially want to utilize static 'hold' -based strengthening, before 'graduating' to strengthening options that included any movement while in a weight-bearing 'hold' or 'push').


I searched for a 'good' article regarding this overall multifaceted 'topic', and the following is one of the 'best' I found (and it includes some quad-strengthening rehabilitative guidance) --
http://www.runnersworld.com/injury-treatment/taking-it-kneecap


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are also various patellar stabilizer 'braces' that one might find useful, including what is known as a "Cho-Pat Strap", and a "Cho-Pat Dual Action Knee Strap" (both of which can be found online) -- but it would be best to not see these or the use thereof as a 'solution'.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not everyone is fortunate enough to have feet, knees, quads, hips, etc. that would allow for one to partake of a 'just do it' -based engagement in running -- there are many out there who have undiagnosed aspects which would all but guarantee any of various ongoing problems, pain, and/or serious injury, unless and until certain specific realities are addressed.


As for me, the force on my knees from running on a treadmill is such that there is only one kind of treadmill I'll ever run on, due to its being the only kind which allows for dramatically mitigated impact, including its having noticeably different/better lateral stability than the belts associated with most treadmills. I simply work within the constraints of what my body is biomechanically able to withstand, and have no desire to try and 'force' something that the laws of physics will always win out on (let alone, would include 'expression' in the form of premature wear on cartilage, and arthritic consequence, as well as pain and recklessly minimized lifetime use). I wish I could effortlessly run to my heart's content, and on whatever type of surface I so chose or desired, but that's never been my reality, nor will it ever be (without some sort of (non-existent) magic, that is).


timandbeckivillard, I wish you the very best, and hope that your circumstance is resolved with a positive outcome that allows you to resume your desired activity level as soon as possible.

JenMaselli

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

Does the area that I described sound common? I feel like maybe it is internal bruising from the impact of the running maybe? It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot. If it was just on one, I would lean towards it being maybe a more serious injury like something was torn. But the fact that It is on both in the exact same spot and the exact same type of pain, leads me to believe that it is just because I wasn't used to the running...at least that is what I am HOPING Does the area that I described sound common? I feel like maybe it is internal bruising from the impact of the running maybe? It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot. If it was just on one, I would lean towards it being maybe a more serious injury like something was torn. But the fact that It is on both in the exact same spot and the exact same type of pain, leads me to believe that it is just because I wasn't used to the running...at least that is what I am HOPING

So the guy posting above me has a ton of information! I am not a medical professional of any sort, but it sounds like you've strained some of the ligaments in your knee. Again, have your doc take a look and advise. I would rest it until the pain is better and get fitted for shoes and perhaps orthotics. Probably your gait or something you are doing with your feet is placing strain on a specific area of the knee.

timandbeckivillard

JenMaselli wrote: »

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

Does the area that I described sound common? I feel like maybe it is internal bruising from the impact of the running maybe? It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot. If it was just on one, I would lean towards it being maybe a more serious injury like something was torn. But the fact that It is on both in the exact same spot and the exact same type of pain, leads me to believe that it is just because I wasn't used to the running...at least that is what I am HOPING Does the area that I described sound common? I feel like maybe it is internal bruising from the impact of the running maybe? It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot. If it was just on one, I would lean towards it being maybe a more serious injury like something was torn. But the fact that It is on both in the exact same spot and the exact same type of pain, leads me to believe that it is just because I wasn't used to the running...at least that is what I am HOPING

So the guy posting above me has a ton of information! I am not a medical professional of any sort, but it sounds like you've strained some of the ligaments in your knee. Again, have your doc take a look and advise. I would rest it until the pain is better and get fitted for shoes and perhaps orthotics. Probably your gait or something you are doing with your feet is placing strain on a specific area of the knee.

I wish what he posted was in plain English. That was WAY too much information for me to process. Lol. Do you think I am able to still do the stationary bike because that doesn't put any weight on my knees? Or do I just not need to do anything AT ALL? And how long is "normal" for pain to stay there before it is there too long and you realize that you have to see a doctor?

qn4bx9pzg8aifd

Lesson learned... I'll refrain from trying to help in this way again...

timandbeckivillard

qn4bx9pzg8aifd wrote: »

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

I have been doing my cardio on the treadmill and recently started running on it. Well, that didn't work out great because now I can barely walk. The pain is on the inner side of my knee and it almost has a bruised feeling. Almost zero pain when I am sitting, but get me up and walking and its horrible. I had only been running on the treadmill for a few days, and only 60 seconds at a time x3 in each session. But on the third day, I couldn't even get through the first 60 seconds. It is now a couple days after I stopped, and the pain is still there. Like I said, it is kind of a bruised feeling when I walk. I have no external bruising or even swelling. Is it possible that from those little spurts of running, I bruised the inside of my knee? The pain is only on the inner part of my knee, zero pain on the knee cap, zero pain on the outer side of my knee.

Does this injury sound familiar to anyone? If so, how long before its gone, and any remedies to help it? I have already been icing it, 20 minutes on, 30 minutes off. But the pain is still the same.

Please help!

Without knowing more -- and without knowing specific relevant information -- my initial suspicion zooms in on the vastus medialis oblique (VMO), and for several reasons.

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

It is on both legs/knees in the EXACT same spot.

...and subsequently reading that results in my noting its being consistent with (and whether coincidentally or not) a VMO issue...

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

I have been doing my cardio on the treadmill

Did you begin doing cardio/running on the treadmill after an extended period of time of not engaging in this type of activity?

How physically active were you in the months preceding the timeframe of engaging in activity on the treadmill? -- And if physically active during the preceding timeframe, what kinds of activity did you engage in? -- And specifically, if you did walking, how long had you been engaging in that activity, and for what kinds of per-session -based times or distances?

What kind of arches do you have? And do you have any form of orthotic in your shoes? Do you happen to know whether you experience pronation, when you stand/step? And if you originally had high arches, have they fallen at all (even 'minimally') -- ?

How new (and more to the point, how *old* or 'worn') are your shoes? -- And are they level on the bottom (of *both* shoes) (?).


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are several (as-yet-unknown) aspects that are potentially highly relevant to the circumstance, but minimally, given what you've stated, I feel compelled to convey something regarding what's known as the 'Q angle', and the vastus medialis oblique (VMO) muscle.

I'm not certain whether by < The pain is on the inner side of my knee > you mean to indicate that the pain is located on the medial side of the knee (as opposed to the outer/lateral aspect) (?), or 'inner' as in 'inner underside' of the kneecap (?) -- or whether it feels a bit like an indiscernible mix of 'both'.

It is possible (though not definitive, of course) that you could be experiencing a strained VMO (and potentially the initial 'tipping point' pain associated with patellofemoral syndrome), which can happen if any of various specific realities (or a 'mix' of such) comes into play -- and it would appear that at least a subset thereof might apply in this circumstance.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The VMO is one of the quadriceps muscles, and is critical to the stability and correct tracking of the knee, and is a kind of 'unsung hero' of the leg. Unfortunately, its location (and the nature of its insertion point) on the medial side of the knee renders it vulnerable to a kind of 'pull' that can(/does) occur, biomechanically, as a result of pronation of the foot (and the associated 'torqueing' of the tibia). And pronation is not limited to the classically interpreted 'form' of such -- it can also involve someone whose historically 'high arch' has begun to 'fall' -- which can affect the biomechanics of their gait, and can essentially involve a form of 'pronating' (strain-wise, at least, even if not 'obvious' in the way that pronation of a 'flat' or 'flexible flat' foot is). Additionally, someone whose previously-higher arch has begun to 'fall' is also prone to potentially developing plantar fasciitis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Additionally -- and importantly -- weakening of the VMO, which essentially translates to a weakening of one of the quadriceps muscles relative to the other quadriceps muscles, results in an imbalance among the quad muscles (and often involves an imbalance of the medial and lateral aspects) -- and the quadriceps are crucial to the dynamic stabilization and tracking of the knee, and subsequently, an imbalance among them can affect a multitude of associated biomechanical actions (including compensatory ones) that occur up and down that kinematic chain (all the way from the foot, to the 'shin', to the knee, to the 'thigh', to the hips, to the back, etc. -- and including the musculotendinous and musculoligamentous connections in between).

In looking at the body from the standpoint of physics, the VMO (as well as various other structures) is a kind of linchpin of sorts, especially if/when focusing on the leg, and in particular, the knee.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are several things which can contribute to a weakening of the VMO, and among such are two 'primary culprits' (so to speak) -- the VMO can become weakened via various stress-and-strain -based and/or patho(bio)mechanical realities that can occur in conjunction with pronation, and/or in conjunction with the 'Q Angle'.

The 'Q Angle' can be thought of as a proxy for the lateral force of the quadriceps femoris muscle on the knee/patella, and the strain that this can impose is especially relevant to (and prevalent among) females, due to the greater angle that exists as a result of the pelvis being wider, and subsequently, the angle at which the quadriceps muscles attach to the knee involves more 'force'/strain (there's a reason females are more susceptible to ACL tears, and the greater Q-angle is a key factor).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a nutshell, the Q-angle affects the biomechanics of the patellofemoral joint.

And in a nutshell, the VMO is a medial patellar stabilizer (and one whose importance cannot be overstated).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are many resources that can be consulted for a 'picture' of the Q-angle, but the following is one I found with a quick search, and it includes some helpful associated info -- http://www.coreconcepts.com.sg/mcr/q-angle-and-knee-pain/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A gradually worsening strain -- and associated weakening of the VMO -- can occur almost imperceptibly, over time, with certain specific changes, including that of the addition of weight. A 'pull' on the VMO can occur 'gently' (relatively speaking) if/when one walks -- and can happen without being 'noticed' if/when one does not walk 'much'... and if one becomes predominantly sedentary in conjunction with weight gain, any added strain to the VMO, along with existing weakening of the VMO (again, relatively speaking), can involve a 'brewing problem' that would not become evident unless and until that weakened and increasingly strained VMO were 'put into action', let alone 'suddenly', and especially if 'forcefully so' -- and that can and does happen in conjunction with various individuals suddenly becoming engaged in running, let alone on a treadmill 'surface' (i.e. a surface which involves harder impact than many other surfaces, and involves an associated slight (though largely imperceptible) lateral instability aspect due to the 'belt').

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Additionally, when it comes to the supporting tendons and ligaments...

There was a recent article in the New York Times regarding Mary Cain, a gifted young middle-distance runner who is being coached by Alberto Salazar. Among the many fascinating(-to-me) details mentioned in the article was something that touched on an aspect of training that I don't see discussed very often in the so called lay press, and is stated in the following excerpt (from the article = http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/08/magazine/mary-cain-is-growing-up-fast.html ) --

Now that Cain is 18, Salazar has her training at about 85 percent of the volume and intensity of his older runners. She runs 70 miles a week, while the others, including Mo Farah, run 90 or more. Years of adaptation are required to make the body’s connective tissue and small stabilizer muscles in the legs, pelvis and back durable enough to withstand the older runner’s extreme mileage.

Now, if an elite athlete requires *years* to allow for adaptation of connective tissue and small stabilizer muscles in the legs, pelvis, and back -- and granted, for some serious training mileage -- why is it that non-elite athletes so often expect relatively seamless adaptation to all manner of whatnot associated with running if/when going from 'nothing to something', and especially if/when their circumstance happens to involve added weight (and subsequently increased force on various relevant structures), and potentially imbalanced muscle strength associated with one of the most critical joints in the body, let alone, one of the most pivotal of the joints involved in and required for running (and walking, for that matter).

That being said, we can't 'beat ourselves up' for allowing our enthusiasm and motivation to get ahead of our preparedness... it's understandable... the best we can do is to learn from whatever happens, and move forward, armed with new knowledge, insight, and experience... and continue to do our best...


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That was A LOT of information and I am not sure if I really even understand it all. Prior to the injury, I had been walking on the treadmill for a couple months. Before I started this run on it, I had never ran before. I just feel its kind of weird that it is BOTH knees in the EXACT same spot with the EXACT same type of pain. However, it would be my luck that I get a serious injury in both knees...but hopefully that isn't the case.

When I say the "inside" of me knee...this is what I mean and hopefully I explain it clearly. Standing up straight, with your arms at your side, your arms are on the "outside" of your legs. Bring your arms/hand around to the opposite side, and they are on the "inside" of your legs. That is where the pain is at my knee area. I don't mean "inside" as in "internal" and under the knee cap. My knee cap does't hurt and it doesn't seem to hurt under my knee cap either which is what I think you meant by "inside".

cheshirecatastrophe

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

When I say the "inside" of me knee...this is what I mean and hopefully I explain it clearly. Standing up straight, with your arms at your side, your arms are on the "outside" of your legs. Bring your arms/hand around to the opposite side, and they are on the "inside" of your legs. That is where the pain is at my knee area. I don't mean "inside" as in "internal" and under the knee cap. My knee cap does't hurt and it doesn't seem to hurt under my knee cap either which is what I think you meant by "inside".

For future reference, the fancy anatomy word you're looking for is "medial." (I thought your original description was fine, though!)

maxit

qn4bx9pzg8aifd wrote: »

Lesson learned... I'll refrain from trying to help in this way again...

I for one found your post quite useful. Thank you.

timandbeckivillard

maxit wrote: »

qn4bx9pzg8aifd wrote: »

Lesson learned... I'll refrain from trying to help in this way again...

I for one found your post quite useful. Thank you.

I didn't mean it in any disrespectful way. It was jut a lot of information and terms that I didn't understand. But I do very much appreciate the time you took to get that information and post it here for my reading. Please don't take offense to what my response was. I didn't mean it to be mean

qn4bx9pzg8aifd

maxit wrote: »

qn4bx9pzg8aifd wrote: »

Lesson learned... I'll refrain from trying to help in this way again...

I for one found your post quite useful. Thank you.

I'm glad someone did... thank you for posting.

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

I didn't mean it in any disrespectful way.

I understand... I didn't consider anything disrespectful.

timandbeckivillard wrote: »

It was jut a lot of information and terms that I didn't understand. But I do very much appreciate the time you took to get that information and post it here for my reading.

The time I took wasn't in 'getting' any information -- the time I took was in composing and attempting to carefully convey a lot of information that I knew, and had learned 'the hard way', and that a lot of those I attempted to get assistance from didn't, unfortunately. And I tried to make it a bit easier to read by using squiggly delimiters to mark off(/'lead off') the different concepts, etc.


I've been forced by circumstance to learn a lot about the realities I wrote about, and have seen many people suffer from a lack of knowledgeable assistance associated with their unfortunate experience dealing with issues that involved the same biomechanical 'chain' -- and these are issues that affect a lot of people... and many needlessly experience ongoing pain, complications, and cascading negative impact in the wake of not getting the information and assistance they need, and not knowing what actions (or inaction) would be relevant to successful recovery, let alone not knowing what is relevant or otherwise necessary to mitigate the odds of any future occurrence.

I strongly suspected that I knew what you'd encountered (consequence-wise, at least), and what the 'problem' just might be (as well as its potential 'solution' (and future prevention)), and didn't want to simply 'walk away' after reading of what you'd experienced... in suspecting that I knew (and was very familiar with) the kind of pain that you mentioned, and knew information that I considered relevant and potentially helpful to you, in your circumstance, I took the time to break down relevant aspects, and used the terms that would aid in your looking anything up, should you desire to learn more about it, or otherwise look up someone else's description of such.

The time taken to look up the few links I provided to further assist was trivial. The time taken to convey information that I thought would be helpful was not. Regardless, I tried... if others out there found/find the information I conveyed to be of assistance in their or someone else's circumstance, now or in the future, then the time and effort will not have been for naught. I'm glad to know that at least one person found it useful.


Lastly, as a final attempt to assist you in some way, I did a quick search to find a link that you (or anyone else, for that matter) might find useful, regarding the concept of a biomechanical chain (and I have no idea who the chiropractic folks are whose blog post I'm about to convey the link for, and I'm not 'for' or 'against' chiropractic anything -- it's merely a reality that the post happens to be on a site associated with someone's practice, and I'm including a link to the post due to my considering the information to be presented well for a lay audience) --

http://www.gutierrezchiropractic.com/understanding-the-biomechanical-chain


timandbeckivillard, I'm bummed that my attempt to assist you didn't turn out the way I had hoped... I wish you the very best...

ShellyBell999

Stop running if it hurts and consult your Dr.

timandbeckivillard

ShellyBell999 wrote: »

Stop running if it hurts and consult your Dr.

I did stop running. But the pain is still there. Just curious how long I should give it to go away on its own before it is time to see a doctor.