The Superman Debate

DoctahJenn

Please... let's keep this civil.

Superman's worth as a superhero is apparently a hot topic for debate, with both sides having strong viewpoints. So let's hear all sides of the discussion, whether he's your favorite *ever* or whether you think he needs to be retired.

The "pro" side argues that he's practically unbeatable, yet tries not to hurt people because everyone deserves to live. He could easily be a super villain, but chooses to be good because he knows it's the right thing to do. And life as a super-strong man isn't easy - he has to be so careful not to hurt people by accident, or destroy things. Also, don't blame the hero - blame the writers! He hasn't been written very well, but in the right hands he could be amazing.

On the "con" side, there's the argument that he's TOO powerful, TOO good, and quite frankly, too boring. What's interesting about a man with no character flaws? Whose main weakness has SOMEHOW managed to be just about everywhere, despite it's supposed rarity? He was something to aspire to when he was created, but in today's society, he's outdated.

So what say you? Remember - let's be civil! Argue the point, not the people.

maab_connor

honestly, the lack of flaws is one of the reasons i don't prefer him. he's not the first adopted kid to find out that his birth parents are dead, but i feel like they never did that story line justice. and maybe that's b/c when there was something to use as a touchstone for that feeling, (in the 50s when you started having kids who were snuck out of Occupied Europe during WWII getting old enough to ask those questions; old enough to start to understand the atrocities they came from) censorship in the US was just absolutely insane. there was no way the Comics Code Authority was going to take on that story line.

and ok, so his father's death was a major moment in his development - it is for all of us who have lost our fathers - but it's not like he was on some bad path that his father's death brought him away from (a'la Peter Parker when Uncle Ben was killed). it's an every day tragedy. it's a terrible thing to happen and it does shape you, but again, i feel like it was poorly-written. it didn't make him easier to see yourself in, it actually seemed to separate him more.

Conner Clark (Con, Kon El) i feel was more relate-able b/c he was flawed. he had some of Lex's worst qualities in him too and he was fighting his own nature a lot of the time. he was my fave Supes. in fact, when he and Jason met i felt like DC finally had a good story line, a friendship i could support. but then they did that DC thing where they backed away from really dealing w/ what they put the characters through.

but i will say this for Supes... he wasn't Aqua Man.

MaxPower0102

Don't want to turn this into physics debate, but one thing I've wondered... How does Superman fly faster? He is cruising along at one speed..... how does he go faster?

strozman

They keep the character from being boring by introducing other god like supervillians that can on occasion kick his booty. Without an earth that constantly needs saving he would just be an all too powerful duddly do right.

Bill8855

Superman is the bees knees

Capt_Inzane

Superman just needs to be re-invented. I like having someone who is in that God like power level because it allows more flexibility to create villains that are on the same power level. My biggest complaint about Superman is the inconsistencies. In some comics, film, etc he'll get hit by a super megaton bomb and not be phased while others a car will run into him and he'll be thrown back 200 ft.

Some of the best renditions of Superman are as follows.

Young Justice. I liked how he had to come to terms with a clone of himself and he didn't know how to handle it. I like when they instill some human concepts into Superman and how he's battling with everyday (kind of) things that regular people are.

I also liked Superman in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight returns part 2. I liked how Superman was still trying to be on the right side and how him and Batman went toe to toe and just thought overall they did an excellent job.

All Star Superman, without spoiling something happens to Superman and all he wants to do is spend some time with Lois. Can't say much more here because it'd ruin the movie.

Timshel_

DoctahJenn wrote: »

On the "con" side, there's the argument that he's TOO powerful, TOO good, and quite frankly, too boring. What's interesting about a man with no character flaws?

Societies values are warped is all. We should be celebrating men of character, but more so it is incredulous people who get the views, likes, and lemming following.

Superman was SUPPOSED to be the best of all of us as an example of what COULD be. Not just another popular person suffering the human condition of selfishness, temptation, greed, or the ilk.

wolfruhn

Chaelez is right, he is the man originally created. Created as all powerful. As in god's image. No we can't be superheroes. That's not the point. We are flawed. But we can aspire. To be a better persons.

ninerbuff

Hulk>Superman. Green stuff weakens Supes.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
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pipsqueak1990

spider pig spider pig does whatever a spider pig does, can he swing from a Web, no he can't because he's a pig...

shizzlenitts

I love superman, i love his ideals and i love that he promotes the best of humanity.

Ive collected Superman mem for the last 2 decades. Tattoo, clothing , you name it.
Take alook at my pics on MFP and you'll see a pattern.

The thing is , i also hate that he always does the right thing. i want grit, i want him to get his hands dirty.

I could/and have spent hours discussing his pro's and cons but for me personally i would love superman with deadpools brain. epic.

Superman/Deadpool/Hulk FTW

CantonMan1234

First kudos to DoctahJenn for setting the stage for this conversation.
Second, kudos to Chaelaz because I agree that Superman is supposed to be the example to the human condition of what could be and possibly what should be. As a super hero I believe that Superman should be the standard of a hero, not because he is strong enough to draw a line in the sand, but because he does draw a line.

As a character, Superman has been poorly portrayed in every media type in which he has appeared ever since Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. And as great as the art was The Death of Superman was just a joke. In the comic Superman has been re-invented at least three times since the 1990's but once a storyline completes or writers change he just seems to drift along.

Superman IS super and should be portrayed as such, he is as fast as Flash, as intelligent as Batman, can travel without aid through the depths of both the oceans and outer space. His potential is practically unlimited. Forget the question of CAN it be done, with Superman it is a matter of HOW to get it done safely for the others involved. This is someone who can crush coal and make diamonds, I don't want to read how Clark Kent is going to make rent if he loses his job, I want to read how Superman is going to safely land a plane that has just broken into three pieces. I want to read how Superman kept a bridge from collapsing, a volcano from erupting and the moon from losing orbit. I want to read how Superman goes into the tech business and beats Lex Luthor at his own game. Instead of reading how human Clark is I want to read about how super Superman is.

I don't believe he is a boring character, I will admit that he is currently being portrayed that way.

Sinistrous

...there's a debate? Whut....?

La_Malfaisante_

Here for the debate...

Becka4Real

Superman

Timshel_

CantonMan1234 wrote: »

I don't believe he is a boring character, I will admit that he is currently being portrayed that way.

Agree. In the Justice League he was the recognized leader by all other heroes, but seems they want to 'humanize' him too much to knock him down and put lesser people on pedestals.

_John_

ninerbuff wrote: »

Hulk>Superman. Green stuff weakens Supes.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

in real world physics hulk whips his *kitten* because he weighs so much more.

_John_

LiftingRiot wrote: »

I'm not gay but I'd suck the mans.....

that brings up a good point...would superman endanger the whole world if he had a solo "release".

Joannah700

As a superhero? He's foundational, but not the life of the party. Part of it is - the writers are having too much fun exploring the bad guys to really give Superman the density he deserves. They explore the external challenges because...Superman is a stand-up guy and doesn't seem to struggle internally.

Ironically, this is what would make me want to date Superman over any other superhero. PLUS - he would totally be able to get takeout from anywhere.

But there is so much to Superman - oftentimes they seem to depict Superman with this one-dimensional boy scout personality, when really? He's a reporter for a major metropolitan newspaper. He would be an excellent conversationalist, being able to talk about everything from healthcare to the Kardashians. I think part of it is - Superman doesn't have an opinion about any of that. The writers don't explore this. Batman? He has an opinion and an agenda. Superman? He wouldn't make fun of the Kardashians....or so we think. Batman would.

Need2Exerc1se

Chaelaz wrote: »

DoctahJenn wrote: »

On the "con" side, there's the argument that he's TOO powerful, TOO good, and quite frankly, too boring. What's interesting about a man with no character flaws?

Societies values are warped is all. We should be celebrating men of character, but more so it is incredulous people who get the views, likes, and lemming following.

Superman was SUPPOSED to be the best of all of us as an example of what COULD be. Not just another popular person suffering the human condition of selfishness, temptation, greed, or the ilk.

This

Hornsby

What's the opposite of Christopher Reeves?

Christopher Walken

Timshel_

Joannah700 wrote: »

They explore the external challenges because...Superman is a stand-up guy and doesn't seem to struggle internally.

I think people miss his internal struggles. In many different mediums (movies, books, etc) he has had to fight against his own abuse of power, using just compassion instead of hate, and other issues of character. This was especially true of stories including his younger self and coming into this power, life, and leadership that is thrust upon him. The problem there is, people deny the power within themselves to settle for mediocrity, so the storyline doesn't resonate as it should. Truth be told, people are too self-UNaware, the amazing journey of Superman's quest to conquer himself is lost on them, like the major lines of Moby Dick.

I think the quote, "with great power comes great responsibility" is misplaced in Spiderman and really would be more applicable with Superman.

lexlowe

Superman is still the most epic superhero out there. I don't understand why being good is something that is frowned upon. The only time he sucked is when they had his superdog Krypto, his supercat, and his superhorse helping him fight crime. In hindsight those SuperPet stories are ridiculous, but to an eight year old they were so much fun to read.

RunTimer

pipsqueak1990 wrote: »

spider pig spider pig does whatever a spider pig does, can he swing from a Web, no he can't because he's a pig...

Omi...now i have this diddy running through my brain! Curse you @pipsqueak1990!!