Debating unlimited fruits and veggies, like on WW. Thoughts???
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Sure, seems like a good way to go. If you don't want to adjust your calorie total to compensate, I would count the fruit, starchier vegetables and things like avocadoes so they don't put you over. For a looser approach, you could drop your calories a little, and only count medium and larger pieces of fruit, potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn and avocadoes, letting your slightly lower calorie intake take care of the rest without having to count them.
IF can be a good way to eat more intuitively without counting I find also, with the little bit of restriction from the IF often allowing more freedoms elsewhere.0 -
I can see the unlimited fruit & vegetable idea being helpful to people just starting their journey toward better health. (A lot of the people who decide to join WW probably fall into this category.) If someone is trying to better unhealthy eating habits and begin replacing less healthful choices with more fruit & veg, even if they are not tracking them, they will likely still come out ahead of the game at the end of the day.
It might work for a while. But eventually they would probably have to tighten up their diet.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »But I eat as many and as much vegetable foods as I want and can.
Me too, but that doesn't mean I don't log them. IF one is logging (I know you don't) it makes no sense to me to log some foods and not others, as EWJLang said. That has nothing to do with limiting them.
I like to log veggies since it's how I give myself credit for them and can see them later if I wonder why some day was easier than another, maybe.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »But I eat as many and as much vegetable foods as I want and can.
Me too, but that doesn't mean I don't log them. IF one is logging (I know you don't) it makes no sense to me to log some foods and not others, as EWJLang said. That has nothing to do with limiting them.
I like to log veggies since it's how I give myself credit for them and can see them later if I wonder why some day was easier than another, maybe.
I log them too! It's important, calories in vs calories out...that's what we are doing, right?!0 -
Angela26point2finisher wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »I'm pretty sure fruit and vegetables have calories. It doesn't matter to your body where the calories comes from.
It does matter where your Calories come from. 100 Calories from an apple and a dozen baby carrots is going to have much more nutrients then a 100 Calorie pack of Oreo bites, way more filling, and won't leave you wanting more. The micro-nutrients matter, too.
He didn't say it doesn't matter what you eat. He said that it doesn't matter where the calories come from, clearly meaning that if you overeat on nutrient dense foods you will still gain weight.
I have some experience with that myself, you definitely do.
And unfortunately it's simply not the case that eating lots of veggies means that you won't be able to overeat on other foods. You might have an easier time resisting than if you let yourself be really hungry, but I expect a lot of us here don't actually overeat because of hunger.0 -
Yep. If you log, you log vegetables and fruits too!lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »But I eat as many and as much vegetable foods as I want and can.
Me too, but that doesn't mean I don't log them. IF one is logging (I know you don't) it makes no sense to me to log some foods and not others, as EWJLang said. That has nothing to do with limiting them.
I like to log veggies since it's how I give myself credit for them and can see them later if I wonder why some day was easier than another, maybe.
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There are all kinds of ways to log. I would suggest that you log everything for a few days and see how much produce you eat when you're not limiting yourself but eating it to satiety. It's probably 300-500 calories. Then subtract that from your goal and don't log produce, if that appeals to you. E.g., if you want to eat 1800 calories a day, allow yourself 1300-1500 and free produce. Less logging, more incentive to have an apple over a cookie, more fiber, more vitamins... lots of plusses.0
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I don't think it's a good strategy for someone with only 15 pounds to lose. If you were obese and new to counting, I think it would be a great strategy.
But if you want to do it, I would suggest limiting the number of servings.0 -
Angela26point2finisher wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »I'm pretty sure fruit and vegetables have calories. It doesn't matter to your body where the calories comes from.
It does matter where your Calories come from. 100 Calories from an apple and a dozen baby carrots is going to have much more nutrients then a 100 Calorie pack of Oreo bites, way more filling, and won't leave you wanting more. The micro-nutrients matter, too.
I won't argue about the micro-nutrients, but let's not pretend that an apple and a dozen baby carrots is any more filling than a 100 calorie pack of Oreos. In either case, I may as well have eaten nothing... I will be just as hungry regardless.0 -
Thank you everyone for your comments. i appreciate it!0
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I know with the old WW program - which I used to lose all of my pregnancy weight years ago - the points I was given averaged around 900 calories. We had unlimited non-starchy vegetables, but counted starchy vegetables and fruit. At the end, most days I probably was eating around 1100-1200 calories with vegetables.
With the new plan, I don't know if they built in that super low calorie target in order to make up for the unlimited vegetables, but "zero point" fruit or starchy vegetables makes zero sense to me.0 -
peter56765 wrote: »My body's intuition tells me to eat when I'm hungry, bored, stressed, for pleasure, or just when I'm sitting around in front of the TV - basically whenever possible. I suspect I am descendant from a long line of people who managed to survive periods of famine by stuffing their faces when a surplus was available. Now of course, I am surrounded by surplus all the time but my "intuition" keeps telling me to chow down. So, yeah, I think I'll pass on intuitive eating.
Totally! My intuition tells me to eat at least three packets of biscuits a day, and that dairy milk is a legitimate way of dealing with stress.0 -
To much of a good thing can be bad for us. Eating an abundance of any food, even fruits and veggies stretches the stomach mussel itself. It can then leave you feeling hungrier later just with the simple fact of having more space to fill just to feel full and this can carry on far later down the road. Once this happens it leads to some potentially poor choices if not careful. That is not taking into account the calories at all that add up as well. I hope this helps.0
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isulo_kura wrote: »A banana has on average 150 calories, Avocados are very high a few of those free fruits/veggies and you'll be putting on weight. Nothing is free it all has calories
Holy crap, what size banana's are you getting. The average banana I eat is less than 100 calories. Usually right around 90 calories. Because I know they can be high in calories I always weigh them out in grams.
Either way, I agree with other posters, fruit can really get away from you fast.
I used to do WW and did the free fruit and veggies. That whole unlimited fruit and veggies is a marketing gimmick. After getting into it, you will find they only recommend so many servings of fruit a day. Also, if people start complaining about not losing weight the first thing asked is how much fruit are you eating? It is a marketing scam to get you sucked into their program.0 -
isulo_kura wrote: »A banana has on average 150 calories, Avocados are very high a few of those free fruits/veggies and you'll be putting on weight. Nothing is free it all has calories
Holy crap, what size banana's are you getting. The average banana I eat is less than 100 calories. Usually right around 90 calories. Because I know they can be high in calories I always weigh them out in grams.
Either way, I agree with other posters, fruit can really get away from you fast.
I used to do WW and did the free fruit and veggies. That whole unlimited fruit and veggies is a marketing gimmick. After getting into it, you will find they only recommend so many servings of fruit a day. Also, if people start complaining about not losing weight the first thing asked is how much fruit are you eating? It is a marketing scam to get you sucked into their program.
Yeah, I think this person isn't using the USDA entry. I think the largest bananas I've eaten have been in the low 120s.
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Maybe some people weigh it with the peel on?0
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WalkingAlong wrote: »Maybe some people weigh it with the peel on?
I hope not, because I think eating the peelings is bad for you
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isulo_kura wrote: »A banana has on average 150 calories, Avocados are very high a few of those free fruits/veggies and you'll be putting on weight. Nothing is free it all has calories
Holy crap, what size banana's are you getting. The average banana I eat is less than 100 calories. Usually right around 90 calories. Because I know they can be high in calories I always weigh them out in grams..
Well the average banana is around 1 Kcalorie per gram so mine average between 120 and 170 (peeled) which is average size where I buy them from. Occasionally I'll get one around 100 but not often0 -
Angela26point2finisher wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »I'm pretty sure fruit and vegetables have calories. It doesn't matter to your body where the calories comes from.
It does matter where your Calories come from. 100 Calories from an apple and a dozen baby carrots is going to have much more nutrients then a 100 Calorie pack of Oreo bites, way more filling, and won't leave you wanting more. The micro-nutrients matter, too.
Not in regards to weight loss and since the OP mentioned 'Weight Watchers' we can assume the goal is weight loss.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »Angela26point2finisher wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »I'm pretty sure fruit and vegetables have calories. It doesn't matter to your body where the calories comes from.
It does matter where your Calories come from. 100 Calories from an apple and a dozen baby carrots is going to have much more nutrients then a 100 Calorie pack of Oreo bites, way more filling, and won't leave you wanting more. The micro-nutrients matter, too.
I won't argue about the micro-nutrients, but let's not pretend that an apple and a dozen baby carrots is any more filling than a 100 calorie pack of Oreos. In either case, I may as well have eaten nothing... I will be just as hungry regardless.
Yep. And if I was eating the apple instead of the Oreos I was craving, I'm likely to then eat the Oreos too. Which is how I got fat.
OP, the free fruits and veggies thing didn't work for me, my husband, and a lot of folks who were previously successful with WW. However, the suggestion above for allotting a set amount of calories for f/v, then eating a fairly consistent amount of f/v on a day to day basis, is very sensible. Just don't go nuts and overeat.
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go for it but dont complain when youre eating a crap load of fruits and veggies and still not losing lol0
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2snakeswoman wrote: »I think if you want to use Weight Watchers strategy, you will have to do the whole WW program, not just the part that appeals to you.
I seem to recall WW actually saying this. Don't try to do WW and Atkins at the same time, for example. That said, I'm guessing most people don't gain weight on carrot sticks and apples. Just my opinion, though.0 -
I think the current WW diet is around 1100 calories, then "unlimited" fruits and vegetables (the non-starchy, non-fatty kind - you'd have to count avocados for example). So as someone stated above, unlimited only works as long as you don't overeat fruits or vegetables. Most of us didn't get fat eating too many fruits and vegetables but we certainly could keep ourselves from losing by doing so.0
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That said, I'm guessing most people don't gain weight on carrot sticks and apples. Just my opinion, though.
We're all guessing as a consumption of fruit or veg that high is 6 sd from the mean and we just don't know how healthy or fattening that is. The median intake of fruit struggles to reach one item per day.
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This assumes there's only one goal.beemerphile1 wrote: »Angela26point2finisher wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »I'm pretty sure fruit and vegetables have calories. It doesn't matter to your body where the calories comes from.
It does matter where your Calories come from. 100 Calories from an apple and a dozen baby carrots is going to have much more nutrients then a 100 Calorie pack of Oreo bites, way more filling, and won't leave you wanting more. The micro-nutrients matter, too.
Not in regards to weight loss and since the OP mentioned 'Weight Watchers' we can assume the goal is weight loss.
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Yes the overall amount of pionts you get factors in free fruits and veggies. So if you are doing WW and not over doing it. Then it works ( I am a vegan who lost 75 lbs on WW and kept it off for a years but I stopped doing everything and regained 55 decided to switch to MFP snd calories for a change) but you won't drop weight if you eat to your calorie goal without tracking veggies and fruit sinc eyiur calorie gola is set to include those pieces unlike WW where it is set to not include them.Yeah that won't work. You can still eat unlimited veggies and fruit... you just got to log them. They are only free with WW because you have less points than you would if you counted them.
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Being vegan is NOT a silver bullet. Nothing is. I have been every size under the sun in my 25 years as a vegan. I am vegan for a lot of reasons animal, enviro, AND LONG term health. But I undertsand that my size is related to the amount of calories I consume and the amount I move. There is a ton of high calorie vegan junk food. I would say somethings you don't get much of as a vegan even if you over eat.But for weight/size calories in vs calories out still applies to us vegans.beachhouse758 wrote: »It depends on your goals. If you're obese and eat a generally unhealthy diet, then WW's tactic of not counting fruits and veggies is probably great. It gets people into the habit of eating healthier and probably won't hinder weight loss.
Now if you're already pretty healthy and lean, and just trying to get a bit leaner to look great in a swim suit than you should log everything.
I agree.
Also, different approaches work for different people.
I have to log everything. That's what works for me.
For example I usually eat 1 avocado a day. I love them. Each avocado has about 200 calories and about 15-20 grams of fat.
If I ate unlimited avocados, then I would not be able to maintain a deficit.
But I eat one and I make my numbers work.
I also eat a ton of raw veggies, but I log them because I still need to learn portion control as part of my long term health goals.
I see a lot of the "Vegan Fitness Gurus" on IG and they don't count calories, they don't count portions and they have an enormous amounts of fruits and veggies everyday and they still manage to look like magical forest fairies. But since I love steak, bison, seafood etc..; so I have to make room in my diet for these things. And that means limiting my avocados.
I still don't understand those people... one of my best friends is a raw vegan and he literally consumes like 10 avocados a day like 100 oranges like the most ridiculous (and expensive) diet ever and he is skin and bones. i logged his day once and it was about 5k in calories.
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