France bans skinny models in anorexia clamp-down
TheRoadDog
Posts: 11,788 Member
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-bans-skinny-models-in-anorexia-clamp-down/ar-AAaohae
What is wrong with this world? It's now politically correct to discriminate against skinny people?
What is wrong with this world? It's now politically correct to discriminate against skinny people?
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Replies
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I don't see the issue. If they are that skinny it is not a healthy or a good look and maybe it will force the industry to deal with these issues instead of encouraging young girls to starve themselves in order to be models.0
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If they banned fat models because the were unhealthy, would that be okay?0
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Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html0 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »If they banned fat models because the were unhealthy, would that be okay?
World War 3 ensues lol0 -
This is absolute nonsense. It is an industry based on aesthetics- not a translation of real day to day human beings. If a person within the industry feels that they do not want an overly skinny representation of their creations, they have the ability to choose other models who fit their taste preferences. They are human hangers for art, not paragons.0
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mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
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TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
I really like this argument. Good point.0 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
Let's be clear about what the ban is intended to do. It is not intended to punish people who naturally fall outside the normal parameters of society, as you put it. It is intended to prevent people unnaturally starving themselves, in many cases to death.
Additionally, while there are people who naturally fall at the low end of the BMI scale, there is an enormous amount of evidence showing that being underweight is unhealthy. The cut-offs set by Milan and Israel were BMIs of 18 and 18.5 respectively. The low-end BMI cut-off agreed by the medical community to represent the minimum weight you should aim to be, for the sake of health, is usually set as 18.5. Anyone below this weight, regardless of whether this is due to an ED per se or just not really eating much, would decrease the risk of health issues by putting on some weight.
With the modelling industry, the goal is aesthetics, and being attractive is equated to being as thin as possible. Thus the industry (designers, agents, photographers, other models) is driving models and people who aspire to be models to be dangerously thin, for the sake of it. To the majority of the modelling industry it does not matter if the model is healthy, only that she is thin, at whatever the cost. Even 'plus size' models no longer represent a normal woman - typically a US 10 - 12 when the average US woman is a size 14 or above. These high-profile shows adding an additional criterion that models be healthy is not going to fix this culture overnight. It does, however, send out a strong message that the industry needs to change and to value health as well as thinness. I do not believe this is a bad thing.
Please read some more about eating disorders in the modelling industry. The links I posted barely touch the surface of the problem.
Re NFL: BMI is well known not to be effective at assessing health of rugby players, american football players, body builders etc. - their highly muscular bodies will often put them in the overweight category when their body fat % is quite low. The waist-to-height ratio is a much better indicator of health in athletes. In fact, the British military is considering changing its weight requirements to WTH ratio for this reason, as it is very difficult to meet the strength requirements while still being within the BMI requirements.
Re long distance runners: there is also an increased incidence of eating disorders among long distance runners, and a correlation between eating disorders and high achievers / competitive people in general. However, according to the studies I posted below, 16% of long distance runners show signs of an eating disorder, compared to 20 - 40% of models. So the scale of the problem in long distance runners, while worrying, is smaller than that of the modelling industry.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76241.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11746292
ETA:TheRoadDog wrote: »If they banned fat models because the were unhealthy, would that be okay?
'Fat' models cannot get work anyway, so there is no need to ban them!0 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
In Modeling, yes, but it should be up to the designer/company, not a blanket ban. In modeling, you are getting paid for your image, your body type, your look. If you don't have those things, then you don't qualify for the job.
In the NFL, the players need the extra weight/muscle to perform their job duties, you don't see scrawny, underweight, low muscle mass line backers often.
You wouldn't hire a garbage man to be a doctor, or a doctor to be a garbage man.
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mumblemagic wrote: »
However, according to the studies I posted below, 16% of long distance runners show signs of an eating disorder, compared to 20 - 40% of models. So the scale of the problem in long distance runners, while worrying, is smaller than that of the modelling industry.TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76241.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11746292
Why can't we say 15-35% for runners if we can say 20-40% of models? Then there's not much of a difference.
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_incogNEATo_ wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »
However, according to the studies I posted below, 16% of long distance runners show signs of an eating disorder, compared to 20 - 40% of models. So the scale of the problem in long distance runners, while worrying, is smaller than that of the modelling industry.TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76241.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11746292
Why can't we say 15-35% for runners if we can say 20-40% of models? Then there's not much of a difference.
Because that's not what the articles I linked said. If they had said that, that's what I would have posted. If you have contradictory information to the articles I found, please post it - I am interested.0 -
My point in all this is that if it's not illegal or violating someone's civil rights the government has no business imposing on the individual.
Additionally, isn't anorexia considered an medical issue? Are we to negatively impact those with unfavorable medical diagnoses? Should a person with a cleft palate be disallowed to seek employment? Where do we draw the line? I'm bald. Is that considered a medical malady? Should I stay hidden in my home?
Is there a prototype of what should be considered normal and those that don't meet those standards should be hidden away so as not to set a bad example?
If misfits misfits and outcasts are not allowed to work, will the Government (at the expense of the beautiful people) support them?
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mumblemagic wrote: »_incogNEATo_ wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »
However, according to the studies I posted below, 16% of long distance runners show signs of an eating disorder, compared to 20 - 40% of models. So the scale of the problem in long distance runners, while worrying, is smaller than that of the modelling industry.TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76241.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11746292
Why can't we say 15-35% for runners if we can say 20-40% of models? Then there's not much of a difference.
Because that's not what the articles I linked said. If they had said that, that's what I would have posted. If you have contradictory information to the articles I found, please post it - I am interested.
I don't. My point is, why would I let 20-40% hold weight when being compared to 16%. If it's 20% then the same ban should be put on runners, no?0 -
_incogNEATo_ wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »_incogNEATo_ wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »
However, according to the studies I posted below, 16% of long distance runners show signs of an eating disorder, compared to 20 - 40% of models. So the scale of the problem in long distance runners, while worrying, is smaller than that of the modelling industry.TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76241.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11746292
Why can't we say 15-35% for runners if we can say 20-40% of models? Then there's not much of a difference.
Because that's not what the articles I linked said. If they had said that, that's what I would have posted. If you have contradictory information to the articles I found, please post it - I am interested.
I don't. My point is, why would I let 20-40% hold weight when being compared to 16%. If it's 20% then the same ban should be put on runners, no?
Only on the skinny runners.0 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-bans-skinny-models-in-anorexia-clamp-down/ar-AAaohae
What is wrong with this world? It's now politically correct to discriminate against skinny people?
I appreciate your desire to not discriminate against people. This legislation is not about discrimination - it's about workplace safety.
Many models, in a quest to get and keep their careers, end up regularly in the hospital, regularly have to have IV's because their bodies cannot handle the starvation they are required to endure for their careers.
This legislation forces those who employ models to stop pushing the requirements of employment into hazardous levels.
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France just refuses to allow the continued promotion of pro-ana attitudes in the fashion industry - something that does influence and shape the thinking of young women.
A bit like the other part of that law which makes it illegal to promote a pro-ana website.
Much like MFP.
Really has nothing to do with linemen, runners and other red herrings where no one is promoting an eating disorder as a successful way of life.
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Saying the models are banned from all work is a straw man argument: It's not that they are not allowed to work, it is that they are not allowed work at these specific fashion shows. They are perfectly entitled to work in any job, modelling or otherwise, that does not require them to be a minimum healthy weight.TheRoadDog wrote: »My point in all this is that if it's not illegal or violating someone's civil rights the government has no business imposing on the individual.
Additionally, isn't anorexia considered an medical issue? Are we to negatively impact those with unfavorable medical diagnoses? Should a person with a cleft palate be disallowed to seek employment? Where do we draw the line? I'm bald. Is that considered a medical malady? Should I stay hidden in my home?
Is there a prototype of what should be considered normal and those that don't meet those standards should be hidden away so as not to set a bad example?
If misfits misfits and outcasts are not allowed to work, will the Government (at the expense of the beautiful people) support them?
It is worth noting that it will be the agency that is punished, not the model. Therefore it is not the medical condition itself that is being discriminated against but the exploitation of it for material gain. According to this article based on an industry survey, 64% of models had been asked to lose weight by their agents, which puts a large chunk of responsibility for the issues on the agents, i.e. the employers. This is not a case of people randomly getting a medical condition by pot luck, but is a case of an employer directly contributing towards someone's ill health. In the UK and the EU, we have employment health and safety laws which aim to prevent employers causing harm to their employees. I do not think this is a bad thing, and I see this ban as on a par with those laws.
http://www.anneofcarversville.com/body-politics/2013/4/22/does-fashion-industry-promote-anorexia-do-models-eat-tissue.html
ETA:
Some stats from UCLA
http://www.stat.ucla.edu/~vlew/stat10/archival/fa02/handouts/modeling.pdf
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TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
Do the NFL linemen and runners have eating disorders?0 -
TheRoadDog wrote: »My point in all this is that if it's not illegal or violating someone's civil rights the government has no business imposing on the individual.
Additionally, isn't anorexia considered an medical issue? Are we to negatively impact those with unfavorable medical diagnoses? Should a person with a cleft palate be disallowed to seek employment? Where do we draw the line? I'm bald. Is that considered a medical malady? Should I stay hidden in my home?
Is there a prototype of what should be considered normal and those that don't meet those standards should be hidden away so as not to set a bad example?
If misfits misfits and outcasts are not allowed to work, will the Government (at the expense of the beautiful people) support them?
Your idea of government isn't universal.
The history of the social contract in France is such that the government has a stronger role in assuring a minimum of social, economic and medical protection of the individual.
This blocks employers from requiring unhealthy hiring conditions.
It really has nothing to do with physical abilities or limitations (and it might still get overturned by the high court if challenged and it can be shown that a person can't gain weight beyond a BMI of 18 ... as if.) but of influences of a major industry that force an unhealthy position for no actual benefit other than aesthetic and which has been seen to significantly influence attitudes of our youth.
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This former model discusses the lies she lived as a model. The article goes into detail about her healthy diet touted in magazines were lies, that her hair ads were lies, that her luxurious, shampoo ad hair was actually wigs and extensions because her real hair was falling out, that her brilliant smile was a photoshop lie because her teeth were yellowed from nicotine, that her smouldering bedroom eyes were also lies - her sex life with her boyfriend was essentially non-existent and orgasm faked when sex actually occurred. The damage her model lifestyle took was even greater - she ended up in the hospital with holes in her heart.
She also discusses the abuses in the industry, including outrageous work demands, withholding pay, etc.
Very sad industry.
http://m.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/fashion/the-truth-about-modelling-what-i-wish-i8217d-said-to-my-fans/story-fni0dflu-12267004419830 -
Just interested in the discussion
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mumblemagic wrote: »TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Even 'plus size' models no longer represent a normal woman - typically a US 10 - 12 when the average US woman is a size 14 or above. These high-profile shows adding an additional criterion that models be healthy is not going to fix this culture overnight. It does, however, send out a strong message that the industry needs to change and to value health as well as thinness. I do not believe this is a bad thing.
Re NFL: BMI is well known not to be effective at assessing health of rugby players, american football players, body builders etc. - their highly muscular bodies will often put them in the overweight category when their body fat % is quite low. The waist-to-height ratio is a much better indicator of health in athletes. In fact, the British military is considering changing its weight requirements to WTH ratio for this reason, as it is very difficult to meet the strength requirements while still being within the BMI requirements.
I couldn't have said it better0 -
This is from a former vogue editor, who describes models near passing out on model shoots:
http://www.styleite.com/news/the-vogue-factor-kristie-clements/0 -
They don't require you to be underweight to the point of health risk, most just tend to prefer it. The government has no place in the issue- that being said, i don't live in France.
My personal opinion of it is that if they have issue with maintenance of that body type they should be something other than a model.0 -
alywei3773 wrote: »They don't require you to be underweight to the point of health risk, most just tend to prefer it. The government has no place in the issue- that being said, i don't live in France.
My personal opinion of it is that if they have issue with maintenance of that body type they should be something other than a model.
Considering that you called models "human hangers for art" it is not surprising you had this opinion. It does seem that you value the art more than the human.
The art that is of such magnificent "importance" that people die in the quest to showcase it, has a two-year shelf life at best, after which the "breathtaking" outfit that a young girl starved themself to get into is an outdated embarrasment in the back of someone's closet.
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_incogNEATo_ wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »_incogNEATo_ wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »
However, according to the studies I posted below, 16% of long distance runners show signs of an eating disorder, compared to 20 - 40% of models. So the scale of the problem in long distance runners, while worrying, is smaller than that of the modelling industry.TheRoadDog wrote: »mumblemagic wrote: »Milan banned models with a BMI of less than 18 from the runway a few years ago, and Israel did similarly last year. The reasoning behind it is that models are supposed to represent the archetype of beauty. Having models that are extremely thin encourages girls and women to aspire to be unhealthily thin, and is thought to be a contributing factor in the development of eating disorders for the majority of sufferers.
It is also a more direct way of trying to tackle eating disorders specifically within the modelling world. There have been numerous high-profile deaths of models with anorexia, including one who had a heart attack on the catwalk. By banning medically underweight models from the catwalks of the major fashion events, there is a real incentive for the models to keep their weight healthy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540595/Fashion-leaders-refuse-to-ban-size-zero-models.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/fashion/israel-passes-law-banning-too-skinny-models-article-1.1235593
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1542707/Sister-of-tragic-size-zero-model-found-dead.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8230624/French-model-in-anti-anorexia-campaign-dies.html
The average BMI for an NFL Professional Lineman is 31.5. Over 30 is considered obese. Should we ban them from professional football for setting a bad example for our youth.
Many long distance runners are flirting with the low end of the BMI. Ban them?
It's okay to keep someone from making a living because they don't fit in with the so-called "normal" parameters of society?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76241.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11746292
Why can't we say 15-35% for runners if we can say 20-40% of models? Then there's not much of a difference.
Because that's not what the articles I linked said. If they had said that, that's what I would have posted. If you have contradictory information to the articles I found, please post it - I am interested.
I don't. My point is, why would I let 20-40% hold weight when being compared to 16%. If it's 20% then the same ban should be put on runners, no?
I don't think so. The ban in France puts the legal liability on the agencies, as an employment law. This is because it is known that agencies put pressure on models to be as thin as possible. I am not sure the same can be said of coaches - the pressure they put on runners is to run as fast as possible.
ETA: Sports men and women earn their money from winning competitions and sponsorship deals. If modelling is part of their sponsorship deal, they would probably be covered by this law.
I think the ban for thin models is only one part of the solution in the modelling industry because although agents and the industry bears a large chunk of responsibility, eating disorders do not just come from people telling you to lose weight. They are serious psychiatric conditions which need to be treated as such. I think better mental health care and more understanding of mental health issues would reduce the incidence of a number of such conditions across the board.
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alywei3773 wrote: »They don't require you to be underweight to the point of health risk, most just tend to prefer it. The government has no place in the issue- that being said, i don't live in France.
My personal opinion of it is that if they have issue with maintenance of that body type they should be something other than a model.
Now they will tend to not prefer it. The local news (I am in France currently) shows that a recent study at an Paris agency outlined that all the models evaluated had a BMI of under 18 - a BMI which the WHO considers as undernourished.
Within the French concept of protection, government does have a role to define limiting work conditions and what an employer can require of employees.
Given that over 60 percent of models are regularly asked to lose weight, this actually seems to make sense.
What you do with your own body is your business but when business promotes or even requires unhealthy practices it becomes the government's business.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »alywei3773 wrote: »They don't require you to be underweight to the point of health risk, most just tend to prefer it. The government has no place in the issue- that being said, i don't live in France.
My personal opinion of it is that if they have issue with maintenance of that body type they should be something other than a model.
Now they will tend to not prefer it. The local news (I am in France currently) shows that a recent study at an Paris agency outlined that all the models evaluated had a BMI of under 18 - a BMI which the WHO considers as undernourished.
Within the French concept of protection, government does have a role to define limiting work conditions and what an employer can require of employees.
Given that over 60 percent of models are regularly asked to lose weight, this actually seems to make sense.
What you do with your own body is your business but when business promotes or even requires unhealthy practices it becomes the government's business.
Agreed.0 -
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TheRoadDog wrote: »http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-bans-skinny-models-in-anorexia-clamp-down/ar-AAaohae
What is wrong with this world? It's now politically correct to discriminate against skinny people?
They are not skinny they are sick. It should be illegal for an entire industry to capitlize on a persons illness. In addition to promoting this illness to get the models sick it is also tearing down the self esteem of most normal women.
I was glad to hear it.
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