Is my real TDEE now almost 1000 less than calculated?
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No, it isn't.williams969 wrote: »OP--I plugged your sample day into MFP--it's ~2,115 calories. That's nearly 500 calories above your estimate. Congrats! You've found the source of most of the problem--"calorie creep"--and it happens to the best of us (I know, because I've fallen victim, too--and I'm the "best" in my eyes). Assuming a 5% margin of error (assuming best measuring practices, which I believe you use them, too), and you're losing "around" what you should (300-500 calorie deficit level--or your reported .59lb or whatever it is, I forgot).
Every measurement on that list other than the chicken and strawberries is directly off the manufacturers' labels.
Please post a screenshot of the calories and nutrients involved for each entry and I'll take a look at the differences.
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Have you tried the scooby modifier? It helps you find your true TDEE. Personally I would not set activity and leave it at sedentary then calculate exercise individually because "activity level" is wrongly understood as exercise when in fact it has to do with your lifestyle (example, a teacher who stands and walks around would be lightly active, a nurse at a busy hospital would be moderately active and a construction worker would have heavy activity).
When I set my activity to exercising 1-3 times a week it gives me an extra 300 calories a day, which would amount to 2100 calories a week... what kind "light exercise" would burn nearly 1000 calories? That's why I always use sedentary as a base.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
the modifier "Calibration Factor" excel sheet can be found here
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator-calibration/0 -
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Every item is from the USDA database, with the exception of the Yogurt, Whey, and tortillas--in those cases I tried to most closely match the macros you listed. HTH
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Roasting and franken-birds are the great equalizer - the breast-only entry is only a couple of calories lighter, per 100g.
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That's basically what I'm trying to sort out. I'd ignored exercise and TDEE up to this point, but I can't do that once I need to get to maintenance or bulking. Also, why I default to sedentary.amusedmonkey wrote: »Have you tried the scooby modifier? It helps you find your true TDEE. Personally I would not set activity and leave it at sedentary then calculate exercise individually because "activity level" is wrongly understood as exercise when in fact it has to do with your lifestyle (example, a teacher who stands and walks around would be lightly active, a nurse at a busy hospital would be moderately active and a construction worker would have heavy activity).
When I set my activity to exercising 1-3 times a week it gives me an extra 300 calories a day, which would amount to 2100 calories a week... what kind "light exercise" would burn nearly 1000 calories? That's why I always use sedentary as a base.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
the modifier "Calibration Factor" excel sheet can be found here
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator-calibration/
I'll take a look at the link. Thanks.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Here's one example:DeguelloTex wrote: »
Everything I've ever found, including while the weight was falling off, puts chicken breast at 31-35 calories per ounce. That would be 465-525 calories, and about 80 grams of protein, for 15 ounces, unless my math is just way off.DeguelloTex wrote: »Grilled Chicken - 15oz (79.8P, 0C, 20.85F)
Not sure about this entry. That's basically a pound of chicken. Assuming it's straight grilled chicken breast - ie, leanest lowest calorie part of the chicken - at 2 calories/gram -> 850-ish calories for the meat alone. Roughly double the protein grams.
That alone would be a big chunk of the riddle.
What am I missing or misinterpreting?
Where are you finding 160 grams of protein per 15 ounces of chicken breast or 57 calories per once of chicken breast? Yeah, that would make a difference, but I haven't seen those numbers anywhere at all.
I'm using cooked weights.
https://mobile.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/chicken-breast-ns-as-to-skin-eaten?portionid=5041&portionamount=1.000
Do you have a link or a search term in MFP's database that shows such high numbers? If the numbers I'm using are that far off, that would be a problem.
Edit: The first entry for grilled chicken in MFP is 31 calories per ounce.
And the USDA for cooked chicken breast is 47 calories per ounce. I'm guessing it's your problem... you're underestimating your calories. The issue with eating the same thing all the time is you can totally mess up your calorie intake if you use incorrect entries.
I'd double check all your entries, honestly.0 -
1. Gotcha. I'm just trying to get an idea, though I know I'll have to adjust based on my particular situation. I was just surprised the difference is as big as it is.A few things to consider.
1. TDEE calculators aren't set in stone.
2. They say nothing about your hormonal situation(you might have a suppressed metabolism)
3. Are you tracking body fat as well? If you're not, it might be a body composition issue.
You say you're excluding exercise or something along those lines? Are you eating back your excise calories or not? That can also cause a problem as well if you're eating them back or not.
2. Yeah, something's up. That may be it, but I don't know at this point.
3. I'm only tracking body fat via comparisons to sample photos. I know it's only very vaguely "accurate" but it's the best I have reasonably available at the moment. How would a body composition issue make my numbers this far off all of a sudden? I guess there could be something to that.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Here's one example:DeguelloTex wrote: »
Everything I've ever found, including while the weight was falling off, puts chicken breast at 31-35 calories per ounce. That would be 465-525 calories, and about 80 grams of protein, for 15 ounces, unless my math is just way off.DeguelloTex wrote: »Grilled Chicken - 15oz (79.8P, 0C, 20.85F)
Not sure about this entry. That's basically a pound of chicken. Assuming it's straight grilled chicken breast - ie, leanest lowest calorie part of the chicken - at 2 calories/gram -> 850-ish calories for the meat alone. Roughly double the protein grams.
That alone would be a big chunk of the riddle.
What am I missing or misinterpreting?
Where are you finding 160 grams of protein per 15 ounces of chicken breast or 57 calories per once of chicken breast? Yeah, that would make a difference, but I haven't seen those numbers anywhere at all.
I'm using cooked weights.
https://mobile.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/chicken-breast-ns-as-to-skin-eaten?portionid=5041&portionamount=1.000
Do you have a link or a search term in MFP's database that shows such high numbers? If the numbers I'm using are that far off, that would be a problem.
Edit: The first entry for grilled chicken in MFP is 31 calories per ounce.
And the USDA for cooked chicken breast is 47 calories per ounce. I'm guessing it's your problem... you're underestimating your calories. The issue with eating the same thing all the time is you can totally mess up your calorie intake if you use incorrect entries.
I'd double check all your entries, honestly.
I have to agree with this. 15oz of cooked chicken breast is more like 700 calories.0 -
The chicken might be it, but I'm using two 7.5 ounce raw breasts (the trimmings get used in stir fry or whatever).williams969 wrote: »Every item is from the USDA database, with the exception of the Yogurt, Whey, and tortillas--in those cases I tried to most closely match the macros you listed. HTH
I'll weigh them cooked and see how the two compare.
Edit: The fat and carb grams for the chicken don't add up to the calorie total on that screenshot.
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This is 15 ounces raw. I don't weigh it cooked. I trim them to 7.5 ounces and put them all in a bag to grill at once. The thin parts tend to get dried out, so I cut them off to even out the weight.pinklotus_56 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Here's one example:DeguelloTex wrote: »
Everything I've ever found, including while the weight was falling off, puts chicken breast at 31-35 calories per ounce. That would be 465-525 calories, and about 80 grams of protein, for 15 ounces, unless my math is just way off.DeguelloTex wrote: »Grilled Chicken - 15oz (79.8P, 0C, 20.85F)
Not sure about this entry. That's basically a pound of chicken. Assuming it's straight grilled chicken breast - ie, leanest lowest calorie part of the chicken - at 2 calories/gram -> 850-ish calories for the meat alone. Roughly double the protein grams.
That alone would be a big chunk of the riddle.
What am I missing or misinterpreting?
Where are you finding 160 grams of protein per 15 ounces of chicken breast or 57 calories per once of chicken breast? Yeah, that would make a difference, but I haven't seen those numbers anywhere at all.
I'm using cooked weights.
https://mobile.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/chicken-breast-ns-as-to-skin-eaten?portionid=5041&portionamount=1.000
Do you have a link or a search term in MFP's database that shows such high numbers? If the numbers I'm using are that far off, that would be a problem.
Edit: The first entry for grilled chicken in MFP is 31 calories per ounce.
And the USDA for cooked chicken breast is 47 calories per ounce. I'm guessing it's your problem... you're underestimating your calories. The issue with eating the same thing all the time is you can totally mess up your calorie intake if you use incorrect entries.
I'd double check all your entries, honestly.
I have to agree with this. 15oz of cooked chicken breast is more like 700 calories.
As above, I'll weigh them after I grill them this week and see if that's it.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
This is 15 ounces raw. I don't weigh it cooked. I trim them to 7.5 ounces and put them all in a bag to grill at once. The thin parts tend to get dried out, so I cut them off to even out the weight.pinklotus_56 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Here's one example:DeguelloTex wrote: »
Everything I've ever found, including while the weight was falling off, puts chicken breast at 31-35 calories per ounce. That would be 465-525 calories, and about 80 grams of protein, for 15 ounces, unless my math is just way off.DeguelloTex wrote: »Grilled Chicken - 15oz (79.8P, 0C, 20.85F)
Not sure about this entry. That's basically a pound of chicken. Assuming it's straight grilled chicken breast - ie, leanest lowest calorie part of the chicken - at 2 calories/gram -> 850-ish calories for the meat alone. Roughly double the protein grams.
That alone would be a big chunk of the riddle.
What am I missing or misinterpreting?
Where are you finding 160 grams of protein per 15 ounces of chicken breast or 57 calories per once of chicken breast? Yeah, that would make a difference, but I haven't seen those numbers anywhere at all.
I'm using cooked weights.
https://mobile.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/chicken-breast-ns-as-to-skin-eaten?portionid=5041&portionamount=1.000
Do you have a link or a search term in MFP's database that shows such high numbers? If the numbers I'm using are that far off, that would be a problem.
Edit: The first entry for grilled chicken in MFP is 31 calories per ounce.
And the USDA for cooked chicken breast is 47 calories per ounce. I'm guessing it's your problem... you're underestimating your calories. The issue with eating the same thing all the time is you can totally mess up your calorie intake if you use incorrect entries.
I'd double check all your entries, honestly.
I have to agree with this. 15oz of cooked chicken breast is more like 700 calories.
As above, I'll weigh them after I grill them this week and see if that's it.
Ok then yeah, that's not it, lol.0 -
It's the chicken, a funky metabolism, or a terrible, terrible run of acceptable variance in labeled nutrition information. I don't know what else it could be.
I'm hoping it's the chicken.0 -
They added up for me very, very well until I stopped worrying about it from the week of Thanksgiving until mid-January and then until about six weeks ago. I even have posts in my history saying so.I should have lost 36lbs, which obviously didn't happen. In this field, not once have the numbers ever added up for me, and i don't think for anyone else.
That's what's so funky.
I think I'll weigh the chicken after cooking, too, and see if anything weird shows up. Other than that, I guess it'll wait and I'll ask my doctor about it.0 -
I'm not stressing; I'm asking.DeguelloTex wrote: »
They added up for me very, very well until I stopped worrying about it from the week of Thanksgiving until mid-January and then until about six weeks ago. I even have posts in my history saying so.I should have lost 36lbs, which obviously didn't happen. In this field, not once have the numbers ever added up for me, and i don't think for anyone else.
That's what's so funky.
I think I'll weigh the chicken after cooking, too, and see if anything weird shows up. Other than that, I guess it'll wait and I'll ask my doctor about it.
If it's funky or not, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to quit, eat less, exercise more or what? More then likely you'll keep doing what you're doing. So i recommend stop stressing over this issue. It really won't solve anything.
Realistically, if my maintenance calories really are 1965 while walking 42 miles a week and lifting three times a week, I'll probably see if I can get good life insurance separate from my wife's work policy while I'm in the normal BMI range and go back to eating more. I have no desire to eat eat sub-2000 calories a day for the rest of my life, especially if it takes that much activity even to bump it up to the 1900s.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
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pinklotus_56 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Here's one example:DeguelloTex wrote: »
Everything I've ever found, including while the weight was falling off, puts chicken breast at 31-35 calories per ounce. That would be 465-525 calories, and about 80 grams of protein, for 15 ounces, unless my math is just way off.DeguelloTex wrote: »Grilled Chicken - 15oz (79.8P, 0C, 20.85F)
Not sure about this entry. That's basically a pound of chicken. Assuming it's straight grilled chicken breast - ie, leanest lowest calorie part of the chicken - at 2 calories/gram -> 850-ish calories for the meat alone. Roughly double the protein grams.
That alone would be a big chunk of the riddle.
What am I missing or misinterpreting?
Where are you finding 160 grams of protein per 15 ounces of chicken breast or 57 calories per once of chicken breast? Yeah, that would make a difference, but I haven't seen those numbers anywhere at all.
I'm using cooked weights.
https://mobile.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/generic/chicken-breast-ns-as-to-skin-eaten?portionid=5041&portionamount=1.000
Do you have a link or a search term in MFP's database that shows such high numbers? If the numbers I'm using are that far off, that would be a problem.
Edit: The first entry for grilled chicken in MFP is 31 calories per ounce.
And the USDA for cooked chicken breast is 47 calories per ounce. I'm guessing it's your problem... you're underestimating your calories. The issue with eating the same thing all the time is you can totally mess up your calorie intake if you use incorrect entries.
I'd double check all your entries, honestly.
I have to agree with this. 15oz of cooked chicken breast is more like 700 calories.
This. It's really to underestimate those calories in if you don't choose correct entries.0 -
Disagree with a post made up above - my numbers have *always* worked out. Whenever a discrepancy has materialized, it was due to a logging error on either the CI or CO (or both!) side.
Any other outcome requires a violation of the laws of physics.
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Disagree with a post made up above - my numbers have *always* worked out. Whenever a discrepancy has materialized, it was due to a logging error on either the CI or CO (or both!) side.
Any other outcome requires a violation of the laws of physics.
Maybe we should all live in a metabolic chamber.
Not required.
Because science.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
I'm not stressing; I'm asking.DeguelloTex wrote: »
They added up for me very, very well until I stopped worrying about it from the week of Thanksgiving until mid-January and then until about six weeks ago. I even have posts in my history saying so.I should have lost 36lbs, which obviously didn't happen. In this field, not once have the numbers ever added up for me, and i don't think for anyone else.
That's what's so funky.
I think I'll weigh the chicken after cooking, too, and see if anything weird shows up. Other than that, I guess it'll wait and I'll ask my doctor about it.
If it's funky or not, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to quit, eat less, exercise more or what? More then likely you'll keep doing what you're doing. So i recommend stop stressing over this issue. It really won't solve anything.
Realistically, if my maintenance calories really are 1965 while walking 42 miles a week and lifting three times a week, I'll probably see if I can get good life insurance separate from my wife's work policy while I'm in the normal BMI range and go back to eating more. I have no desire to eat eat sub-2000 calories a day for the rest of my life, especially if it takes that much activity even to bump it up to the 1900s.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Okay asking is okay, it just seems you're putting in a lot of emphasis on this issue. If you're curious okay, the things i listed above in my first post are the issues. Metabolic variance based on diet, change in body composition, hormonal suppression possibly, many things we can't measure at home.
There is a certain slow down with weight loss (about 15% slower compared to a normal person) but your numbers don't make sense even with that in mind. If that happened suddenly then something must be wrong. Either way, if you are using scooby to calculate your true maintenance, set to sedentary, stick religiously to the calorie limit for a whole month, and eat back your exercises in net calories. For strength training see what MFP recommends for calories burned, divide your predicted BMR by 1440 then multiply it by the minutes you spent exercising, then subtract that number from what MFP gives you and eat it back. For walking, use this website to see your actual burn, but make sure to set it to net calories and eat that back:
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/WalkRunMETs.html
If your true maintenance is indeed very low, and not just a fluke, a logging error, or simply being in a rut, you may need to investigate this further - medically speaking.
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Life insurance policy???0
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My SO is your height, almost the same age, currently weighs 246, does NO formal exercise, and recently lost 10 -12 lbs over about 4 - 6 weeks (going from memory here, neither of us track his stats, just what he has casually told me) merely by cutting his sugar consumption (candy) significantly. You probably have greater lean body mass as his job doesn't involve a lot of physical activity.
Looking back at a few days when we ate exactly the same meals/portions (mine are logged), he is eating between 2000 and 2500 cals daily.
In other words -- he is considerably less active, eating more, and losing weight quite effectively.0 -
I guess, since you haven't opened your diary, you have figured out many people would find it difficult to believe you eat the exact same foods every day, at the same weight, with no variability. Obviously most people think it is the CI since you are walking 90 minutes every day and lifting 3 days a week. The only thing is, how long have you been exercising by walking 10 1/2 hours and however many minutes/hours of lifting each week?0
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A couple of things that come to mind. First, you've lost a lot of weight; did you say when you last recalculated your calorie and macro needs? Second, I track my weight with Libra, and it tells me - based on my actual weight, not on predictive formulae - what my deficit is, so you might try that. It could just be that, for you as for most other people, the weight gets harder to lose as you get closer to your goal weight.
A formula derived from a population or a large sample tends to be true for the population or large sample, but can come to grief when applied to the individual. Sometimes people just don't quite fit the model.0 -
Disagree with a post made up above - my numbers have *always* worked out. Whenever a discrepancy has materialized, it was due to a logging error on either the CI or CO (or both!) side.
Any other outcome requires a violation of the laws of physics.
Maybe we should all live in a metabolic chamber.
That you apparently gained 4 pounds of LBM in 1 month seems more than suspect too.0 -
I've said a couple of times now that there is nothing in my diary because I've been logging in My Macros+ rather than MFP for a while now. So, opening it would do no good._Terrapin_ wrote: »I guess, since you haven't opened your diary, you have figured out many people would find it difficult to believe you eat the exact same foods every day, at the same weight, with no variability. Obviously most people think it is the CI since you are walking 90 minutes every day and lifting 3 days a week. The only thing is, how long have you been exercising by walking 10 1/2 hours and however many minutes/hours of lifting each week?
If you don't believe it's possible to measure out the same amounts of salsa, tortillas (OK, they vary a little, but not much), yogurt, strawberries, etc. and to cut chicken breasts to a uniform weight, I don't know what to tell you. I've been doing this for 343 days in a row now, so it's not like I'm a complete novice or just signed up to screw with people.
It's possible that the issue is that I've miscalculated calories in on the grilled chicken. I'm doing it the same way I was doing it for the 10 months before that, so I'm not sure why the numbers would suddenly be so off all of a sudden, but it's not impossible, I suppose. Even if I'm off by that much, it still only explains 25-50% of change. I'm going to track the chicken the same way I have been, but also track it by cooked weight/nutrition in Excel and see if it lines up differently with my results.
I've been walking about 10.5 hours a week since probably late May of last year. I walked less than that for the first month or so. I didn't walk for maybe 10-15 days during the winter when it was either too cold, icy, or both to mess with.
I've been lifting since June of last year.
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I recalculate every time the weight I enter into MFP is a new low weight. Actually, at this point, I only enter my weight in MFP if it is lower than my previous low. Then, when I enter it, I change my activity level to something other than Sedentary and then back to get a new number. Right now, that number is 1650.Larissa_NY wrote: »A couple of things that come to mind. First, you've lost a lot of weight; did you say when you last recalculated your calorie and macro needs? Second, I track my weight with Libra, and it tells me - based on my actual weight, not on predictive formulae - what my deficit is, so you might try that. It could just be that, for you as for most other people, the weight gets harder to lose as you get closer to your goal weight.
A formula derived from a population or a large sample tends to be true for the population or large sample, but can come to grief when applied to the individual. Sometimes people just don't quite fit the model.
It makes sense that for most people the weight gets harder to lose as you get closer to their goal weight because the caloric deficit shrinks. Not many people can go 500 or 1000 calories under maintenance and be happy when they don't have as much fat to call on to make up the difference. I've pretty much reached my tolerance level, which is why I'm targeting very, very slightly more than the 1650.
The only thing in my diet that could be causing this is the chicken, it seems to me. The yogurt seems like it would be pretty consistent nutritionally and the strawberries just don't have the volume to make it skew this much. I'm going to recalculate all this stuff in Excel using the USDA cooked chicken breast numbers -- even though the nutrients don't add up to the caloric total, which makes me wonder what's going on -- and see what that looks like.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
I've said a couple of times now that there is nothing in my diary because I've been logging in My Macros+ rather than MFP for a while now. So, opening it would do no good._Terrapin_ wrote: »I guess, since you haven't opened your diary, you have figured out many people would find it difficult to believe you eat the exact same foods every day, at the same weight, with no variability. Obviously most people think it is the CI since you are walking 90 minutes every day and lifting 3 days a week. The only thing is, how long have you been exercising by walking 10 1/2 hours and however many minutes/hours of lifting each week?
If you don't believe it's possible to measure out the same amounts of salsa, tortillas (OK, they vary a little, but not much), yogurt, strawberries, etc. and to cut chicken breasts to a uniform weight, I don't know what to tell you. I've been doing this for 343 days in a row now, so it's not like I'm a complete novice or just signed up to screw with people.
It's possible that the issue is that I've miscalculated calories in on the grilled chicken. I'm doing it the same way I was doing it for the 10 months before that, so I'm not sure why the numbers would suddenly be so off all of a sudden, but it's not impossible, I suppose. Even if I'm off by that much, it still only explains 25-50% of change. I'm going to track the chicken the same way I have been, but also track it by cooked weight/nutrition in Excel and see if it lines up differently with my results.
I've been walking about 10.5 hours a week since probably late May of last year. I walked less than that for the first month or so. I didn't walk for maybe 10-15 days during the winter when it was either too cold, icy, or both to mess with.
I've been lifting since June of last year.
Well time seems to be an answer. Not sure if it is thee answer. Eating the exact same and doing the exact same and yielding no results due to math may be a matter of giving it more time to get past the stall. Alternatively, you may have lower your metabolic rate to the point where what you are doing isn't working. Change may be an option. Interval training and lifting more would be an option for change. IDK but I think good ole metabolism has said enough for now.
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Okay- so what answer are you hoping people give you?
All I have seen is you trying to refute every answer people try to provide.
You can either accept that you may have made an error somewhere and take the advice people have given you, and possibly continue to lose weight; or continue to fight tooth and nail, demand that you're perfect in your logging, and continue to have the issue you are having now.
Choice is yours.
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If I knew what the answer was, I wouldn't have asked.Okay- so what answer are you hoping people give you?
All I have seen is you trying to refute every answer people try to provide.
You can either accept that you may have made an error somewhere and take the advice people have given you, and possibly continue to lose weight; or continue to fight tooth and nail, demand that you're perfect in your logging, and continue to have the issue you are having now.
Choice is yours.
If all you've seen is my refuting every answer, you haven't been reading very well. I've said, what, about five times now that the chicken may be the issue and that I was going to calculate it using raw and cooked weights and nutritional information to see if that's part of the issue. Did you miss those posts?
Apparently so.
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