nutrition during endurance sessions

davert123

Hiya. I am after any tips people have for what to eat during endurance sessions. I am gluten intolerant so the usual energy bars I've had in the past can upset me. I did a 3 1/2 hrs bike/run and started to bonk before I even started to run. I ended up eating a bar of chocolate which got me going but I am sure this isn't the best think I could have eaten. It worked after about 20 minutes but I'm thinking planning this out beforehand is going to be better. Can anyone give me some advice on what they eat and when they eat it. I carb loaded the night before but went out really early in the morning so only had a banana beforehand.
Thanks :-)

ThickMcRunFast

Clif just came out with a line of stuff for endurance athletes called 'organic energy food'. If you can get past the name, most of them are pretty good, and I believe they are gluten free. I like the Sweet Potato/Sea Salt and the Beet/Banana/Ginger ones. Sounds gross, but actually taste really good out there. Consistency is a bit like baby food. My one complaint is that the beet one is a bit low in calories (only 100ish cals per pouch), while the sweet potato one works well at 200 cals.

Stay away from the pizza flavored one though. That is nasty.

scottb81

Truthfully, if you bonk during training you are training beyond your current ability. In other words, too hard. Most of the time you ought to be able to do a long training session without eating anything.

MeanderingMammal

davert123 wrote: »

I carb loaded the night before...

Probably far too lat, if you needed to carb load as most of it wouldn't be in your system.

You could try gels, the SIS ones are ok but I fid more than three get a bit uncomfortable in my stomach.

Honey Stinger chews work well for me when I'm running, not sure how they're likely to be for cycling as I tend to stick to SIS bars.

Whilst I'd rather disagree with the point above about going too hard, it does strike me that if you'd already bonked before your transition then you need to work up in a more managed way. Three and a half hour bike/ run brick sounds like HAlf Ironman training, so odd to be at that length of session without having sorted your nutrition out.

davert123

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll have a go at what has been suggested. I have never do a tri before so I am ramping my training into unknown (to me) territory . I am going for the Slateman in the UK. Its not a standard length Tri and I had a nightmare with my transition point. I was going to transition where I work so got there ready to go only to find the place locked up for easier. I had to ride another 8 miles up a big hill to a place I could safely secure m bike before I could start to run so it ended up closer to half ironman than Olympic - with 2500 ft of assent. The run was tough as well - cross country running mainly up hill which turned out to be a bog after the heavy rain we've had :-) What concerned me is what MeaderingM... said, I am getting ready to do my first race and I don't really understand nutrition at all - hence my question :-) . My first race is in May and I am using it as a learning activity so I can sort all this out. My main race I am targeting is in the end of september so I have time to sort things out before then :-) . I learned a lot today which for me is what its all about. I think overstretching on the bike showed me how close I have been to my limits. Due to family commitments I had a heavy day Thursday and yesterday as well so I was half empty before doing the longest session of my life :-) Eating the night before doesn't work and burning 3000 calories on a banana is never going to work lmao. Stupid but all valuable learning. I will have a go at the gels and look at the Clif stuff as well. I like the idea of savory stuff so I'll definitely have a look.
Thanks again

scottb81

l would offer three things from my experience marathoning, but not biking.

Start the carb load 48 to 72 hours before the event. So, for a Saturday morning event start eating at Wed supper. That will get you topped off. Also, the night before there is no need to stuff yourself.

Eat your last food at least three hours before the exercise starts. That will allow the insulin surge that occurs from eating to subside before you start riding. If you eat too close to starting the insulin effect will still be there and you will start out burning a higher percentage of glycogen than you would otherwise. Once you start riding you can eat as you like without this concern as the exercise will suppress insulin.

Start eating early in the event and take a gel pack (or whatever) about every 30 min or so. That will spare the glycogen in your body as much as possible so that it's available longer. If you wait until you're starting to bonk to eat it's too late.

For training, my personal thought is to not use nutrition at all to maximize the training stimulation to the body to store increasing levels of glycogen. For most sessions (except those few long ones done at race pace) extra nutrition during the session is not needed if one is training at the correct intensity. Most of the time people train too hard too often which while yielding fast improvement for a limited time, causes that improvement to plateau within months and greatly limits long term development.

SBRRepeat

ThickMcRunFast wrote: »

Clif just came out with a line of stuff for endurance athletes called 'organic energy food'. If you can get past the name, most of them are pretty good, and I believe they are gluten free. I like the Sweet Potato/Sea Salt and the Beet/Banana/Ginger ones. Sounds gross, but actually taste really good out there. Consistency is a bit like baby food. My one complaint is that the beet one is a bit low in calories (only 100ish cals per pouch), while the sweet potato one works well at 200 cals.

Stay away from the pizza flavored one though. That is nasty.

I saw those at Fleet Feet today and about gagged at the idea of pizza flavored paste. Good to know the other ones are edible-ish.

On really long rides, I like to carry Picky or Bonk Breaker bars, which are both gluten free and pretty calorie dense. For long runs, I'll use Huma gels occasionally, which are fruit and chia based and pretty tasty. I'm also a fan of those fruit purees with the squeeze tops that are marketed towards children's lunch boxes. Tasty and cheap. You can get organic ones if large quantities of corn syrup freak you out.
Of course, I also drink coke during the bike leg of tris, so there is a time and place for disturbing amounts of sugar and caffeine...

Ohhim

For me, on my longer (3+ hour) runs, I'll usually just top up the glycogen with gu, or cliff shot blocks, roughly taking on 100 calories of it every 30 minutes. Ultra-marathon/ironman friends of mine need to fuel much more heavily throughout the race past the 5 hour mark, as they'll need to continue burning faster than a body can fuel, but it'll be rare for you to need to keep your heart rate way up past your body's ability to generate fuel for that long otherwise.

When doing 3 days in a row of 100-130 mile rides last fall, I kept my intensity low enough (~60% HR max) that an occasional granola/protein bar + mid-day lunch did the trick as my body could burn fat fast enough otherwise.

Otherwise, @scottb81 is pretty much dead on with pre marathon fueling.

Camo_xxx

Here is what I know. I suggest additional research on your own
Your muscles store 2000 calories worth of glycogen and your liver another 500 ( of course these are averages, your milage will vary )
Your muscles can only use the glycogen they store locally and the glycogen in your liver can be delivered to where it is needed.
You can get 1 gram of glycogen per minute from digestion, so 30g per 1/2 hour.

The trick is as suggested to get to know your body during training so that you can refuel the day before without starting your event still digesting last nights huge carb load.

You need to experiment with pre race meals during training to see what works for you. 1 banana 30 minutes prior is all I need, other do different.
During your event you can eat 30 grams of carbs every 1/2 hour. Anymore then that isn't doing you any good.

As suggested you likely do not need to refuel during training sessions under 2 hours or so but it can be helpful to so just to train yourself how to
Eat during the event.

As to what to eat. Experiment during training and find what works for you. Go to a bike shop and try a few different styles.
Some folks like gels, others use bars or Liquids , I like the power bloks gummy cubes. To each their own. Experiment during training.
You can also make your own. I prepackaged 30 grams of raisins in foil. They are easy to eat and carry.
Make sure to drink with your fuel to aid digestion.

Additionally hydration. Hydration is equally as important as carbs. If you start out dehydrated or become dehydrated you are toast.

kristinegift

Re: nutrition suggestions for gluten-free: Honey stinger makes organic gels, chews, etc. that are gluten free and are very palatable, also come with caffeine with the chews. I also like Powerbar gels, which are also gluten free. I find the Powerbar gels work really well for me because they're easy to get down and the caffeine gives me an extra boost. I only take these on 16+ mile training runs (for me, that's 2:20 or longer) and take one gel every 5-6 miles, but everyone's timing/needs will be different.

Agreeing with all the above about everything generally. Working out for 3.5 hours+, you'll want to start to majorly hydrate and carb load 48+ hours beforehand. Part of training is experimenting to figure out what nutrition solution will work for you before and during your event; and once you find something that hits the sweet spot, stick with it!

Edit: As for an example of "sticking with it," for the last 9 months, the night before any long run I have the exact same meal: steam fresh sweet peas, a packet of tuna with light mayonaise, and Kraft mac and cheese. I eat that while I plan my route & update my shuffle with new podcasts. It's a simple routine, but I would feel weird if I didn't do it at this point.

glevinso

scottb81 wrote: »

Truthfully, if you bonk during training you are training beyond your current ability. In other words, too hard. Most of the time you ought to be able to do a long training session without eating anything.

I have to disagree here. Maybe your definition of long and mine are different, but if I am going past 2 hours, I won't be able to complete the session strong without fueling during the activity. Not eating during a 6 hour ride? Nearly impossible.

I can't help OP with gluten-free things, but many of the gels and other various sugar-based endurance fuel products should be GF. (They are just sugar after all). Personally I use Hammer Perpetuem on the bike, in concentrated form, for long distance racing. I can get 1000 calories of it into a single bottle, which is enough for 3 hours (when racing). During training rides I like to do about half that (500 calories for 3 hours). I also bring along some sport beans, clif chews, gels, etc.

glevinso

scottb81 wrote: »

For training, my personal thought is to not use nutrition at all to maximize the training stimulation to the body to store increasing levels of glycogen. For most sessions (except those few long ones done at race pace) extra nutrition during the session is not needed if one is training at the correct intensity. Most of the time people train too hard too often which while yielding fast improvement for a limited time, causes that improvement to plateau within months and greatly limits long term development.

If you are talking about <90 minute efforts, sure you don't need nutrition, but not training your body to accept calories while under effort for long steady sessions is a recipe for disaster on race day.

scottb81

glevinso wrote: »

scottb81 wrote: »

For training, my personal thought is to not use nutrition at all to maximize the training stimulation to the body to store increasing levels of glycogen. For most sessions (except those few long ones done at race pace) extra nutrition during the session is not needed if one is training at the correct intensity. Most of the time people train too hard too often which while yielding fast improvement for a limited time, causes that improvement to plateau within months and greatly limits long term development.

If you are talking about <90 minute efforts, sure you don't need nutrition, but not training your body to accept calories while under effort for long steady sessions is a recipe for disaster on race day.

i was talking about 2 to 2.5 hour runs which is all that is necessary for marathon training. Maybe triathlon training is different.

Curtruns

I usually bring something to eat on any run over 90 minutes, but lately I have been trying out different foods for my 60 minute runs as well. Want to know what my body disagrees with when it doesn't count

glevinso

scottb81 wrote: »

glevinso wrote: »

scottb81 wrote: »

For training, my personal thought is to not use nutrition at all to maximize the training stimulation to the body to store increasing levels of glycogen. For most sessions (except those few long ones done at race pace) extra nutrition during the session is not needed if one is training at the correct intensity. Most of the time people train too hard too often which while yielding fast improvement for a limited time, causes that improvement to plateau within months and greatly limits long term development.

If you are talking about <90 minute efforts, sure you don't need nutrition, but not training your body to accept calories while under effort for long steady sessions is a recipe for disaster on race day.

i was talking about 2 to 2.5 hour runs which is all that is necessary for marathon training. Maybe triathlon training is different.

Yea - I can see that. I carry a couple gels for my longest of long runs, but that's about it. For Half or Full Ironman, so much of the training is 3hrs or longer (no runs, but rides can easily go 6 hours), thus training your system to accept calories is necessary.

Camo_xxx

You most certainly don't want to find out that gel shots give you a stomach cramp and cause R.O.D. ( Rapid Onset Diarrhea ) on race day. Come to think of it, you don't really want to ever find out. LoL

sijomial

For long duration cycle rides I will eat a very carby breakfast and then aim to eat 40 - 60g of carbs every hour depending on how many hours and how hard my ride is.

On a training ride it will be a mixture of solid food and sports energy drinks. For an event I will be adding carb gels to my drink (partly to minimise weight carried and partly to minimise the faffing about involved in opening the gels on the move), some solid high carb foods but not a lot. Don't forget hydration and electrolytes needs as well as energy needs, especially in hot weather.

Practice your event nutrition during your training and don't change your eating plan for the event, a mistake I made on my first century.

Interesting read regarding different forms of sugar for endurance work:

Fructose as an energy source for exercise

During exercise the rapid demand for energy means that carbohydrates with a high glycaemic index (GI) are preferred. These get into the bloodstream much faster and help you to keep up with the demands of your activity.

Fructose is the sugar in fruit. It is sometimes included in sports nutrition products because it is absorbed via a different pathway to glucose, potentially increasing your maximum carbohydrate intake from 60g per hour to 90g per hour.

The issue is that fructose is a low GI sugar, meaning it takes much longer to get into the bloodstream. Even then, once fructose is in the bloodstream it has to be processed by the liver before it can be turned into a fuel source that your muscles can use. This process can take up to 90 minutes.

You also need to be aware that fructose is a simple sugar, which can create an increased risk of gastric distress if you don’t take enough water on board with it to dilute the concentration

Simple sugars also feed the bacteria in the gut, which can result in more gas being produced – and, in turn, this can cause bloating and cramps.

This all means that fructose can be useful as an energy source if you are doing an activity for longer than three or four hours and have taken in your full hourly quota of 60g of carbohydrate from other sources, such as maltodextrin, glucose or dextrose. However, it’s advisable to practise using fructose in training and be confident that it doesn’t cause you any additional gut issues before relying on it in a race or long sportive.

Maltodextrin is a better energy choice for a sports drink. It still has a high glycaemic index, meaning that the energy is available quickly, but does not carry the same gastric distress risk that simple sugars do.

Read more at http://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/four-sports-nutrition-myths-busted.html#WxhWzZrCrDCuyZJ2.99