Eating what you like vs. clean eating vs. following weight watchers or low carb or other method
Replies
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I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
and no, fwiw, I don't think volume eating is the same as binge eating. I volume eat raw and cooked vegetables.
I think binging is pretty complex. And a long term journey for most.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
You should not bother to argue about this with this particular poster... it will not go anywhere beneficial.
But I agree with everything you said, and I also moderate food. I also did struggle with binge eating and remedied that via moderation and owning up to MY responsibility and control in my weight management (i.e. it's not others' fault, it's not dictated by exercise or by the type of food I eat). Changing my attitude towards food was a big catalyst in that shift.
As for when people say that your weight loss diet should be one you practice indefinitely, it makes complete sense. If you lose weight while eating low-carb and subsequently go back to eating carbs while maintaining, you've not learned what your portion sizes should look like for your current weight and activity level when eating moderate- or high-carb. If you lose weight while eating any food you want and learn how each type of food affects your caloric intake in different ways and you continue to eat the same food during weight maintenance, you have a much better idea of what your portions ought to look like to maintain your weight. The same would hold for anyone who practices any type of diet during weight loss and then maintains it during weight management.
Actually, I'm rather enjoying the discussion, and their perspective, as I do with most open minded, well reasoned posters. I hope this poster feels the same about our exchange.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
No it doesn't make sense. But then folks often say they plan to weigh/measure/count and log forever.4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »If it is not something you want to do forever then no use starting.
That gets said around here all the time, and it makes no sense whatsoever. Life is full of things we only do for a while - there is no reason eating patterns need to be any different.
It seems the most ludicrous when folks declare you have to be low carb forever or you'll get fat, while simultaneously screaming CICO at the top of their lungs. You can't have it both ways lol.
I think that if one can logically eliminate something while they are losing and IT makes their deficit, they should be able to reintroduce it to an extent and eat at their maintenance calories and be fine. The problem comes when folks go back to what and how much they used to eat. Which is what MOST people do. Regardless of the approach.
I agree it is not 100% correct. But I think it is still a good rule of thumb because most people do not learn to moderately incorperate things when they cut them out all together to lose the weight.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
and no, fwiw, I don't think volume eating is the same as binge eating. I volume eat raw and cooked vegetables.
Lol the irony in this complaint is hilarious0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
As for when people say that your weight loss diet should be one you practice indefinitely, it makes complete sense. .
It makes sense, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. Most will make a user feel like they are wrong for wanting to cut out something. The fact is, there are 1000 ways to skin a cat.
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There are 16 tablespoons in a cup. 1/2 of a cup is usually ice cream serving size so a tablespoon is actually .125 of a serving
This is actually really enlightening information for me because for some reason I always had it in my head that there were 3 Tbsp in a quarter cup, so I would have said 12 Tbsp = 1 cup. I just looked it up to verify (not that I didn't believe you, just that I was surprised I was wrong all this time!). Trying to figure out if this news works out in my favor or not...
There are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon and four tablespoons in a quarter cup. The Hubster can't ever keep these ones straight, mainly because it's more than just a little silly.
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4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
No it doesn't make sense. But then folks often say they plan to weigh/measure/count and log forever.4legsRbetterthan2 wrote: »If it is not something you want to do forever then no use starting.
That gets said around here all the time, and it makes no sense whatsoever. Life is full of things we only do for a while - there is no reason eating patterns need to be any different.
It seems the most ludicrous when folks declare you have to be low carb forever or you'll get fat, while simultaneously screaming CICO at the top of their lungs. You can't have it both ways lol.
I think that if one can logically eliminate something while they are losing and IT makes their deficit, they should be able to reintroduce it to an extent and eat at their maintenance calories and be fine. The problem comes when folks go back to what and how much they used to eat. Which is what MOST people do. Regardless of the approach.
I agree it is not 100% correct. But I think it is still a good rule of thumb because most people do not learn to moderately incorperate things when they cut them out all together to lose the weight.
And I have to ask: do they need to? Is it a requirement for success? For all foods? Even here, some of the big advocates of moderation are still listing some foods they DON'T eat. Is that bad, somehow?0 -
That you find it ironic is, indeed, ironic.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
and no, fwiw, I don't think volume eating is the same as binge eating. I volume eat raw and cooked vegetables.
Lol the irony in this complaint is hilarious
If you look, you'll find that how you view my approach isn't really compatible with reality.
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I would much rather have no ice cream than the one tablespoon of ice cream that actually fits in my goals - so no, I don't eat what I want because quantity is a big part of what I want, for some foods.
You however may be different - not everybody is the same.
Nowhere in this statement does he say a tablespoon equals a serving.
So he can only fit ~20 calories of ice cream into his diet every single time he'd potentially want ice cream? He can't eat to maintenance or have a single day eating above maintenance if he really wants a 130 calorie serving of ice cream?0 -
Right, didn't you just say you cut out some stuff while losing because it wasn't worth the calories? Seems legit to me!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
As for when people say that your weight loss diet should be one you practice indefinitely, it makes complete sense. .
It makes sense, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. Most will make a user feel like they are wrong for wanting to cut out something. The fact is, there are 1000 ways to skin a cat.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
and no, fwiw, I don't think volume eating is the same as binge eating. I volume eat raw and cooked vegetables.
Alright I will play along.
If the poster on the green car forum has done extensive research, read multiple reviews of hybrid vehicles, done a cost benefit analysis of the pros of going hybrid vs electric, and was just looking for other people to discuss ways to optimize their mileage or whatever, then yes, I think it would be unnecessary for people to jump in and try to sway that person. Not saying that people wouldn't do it, but I think it would be less likely if the OP had solid logic and reasoning behind their decision.
If the poster said, "hey, Al Gore said we should do more for the environment so I'm going to switch to a hybrid vehicle" or "Cameron Diaz says '“It gets 52 miles per gallon. In the city. Isn’t that exciting?”or "I heard I can save $10,000/year in gas by driving a hybrid... then I think it is totally reasonable that people who have some experience, done some research, or even just have logical reasons to point out the fallacies in some of those claims, may want to comment on the thread.
I believe much of what you will find on MFP is posters like the latter, where they heard about the latest diet du jour (there's another thread going on about the Military Diet right now) where I think it is reasonable for people to come in and correct misinformation, even if this poster has made up his/her mind there are lots of lurkers who may benefit from counterpoints.
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The way I've been losing is: I don't overanalyze things. Many people focus on what would get them that last 1% of results, but I choose to focus on what would get me the 99% first. I just eat things I like when I'm hungry, stop when I'm full, and correct with a fast day or more exercise if what I like happened to take me way over my calorie goal.
I'm a firm believer that the best way to lose weight is the easiest of them all. Basically, I'm curious and like to try things. I tried everything mentioned, in addition to many more, for a week or two. Based on that I formulated my own system taking all the things I liked and felt easy from various diets.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Right, didn't you just say you cut out some stuff while losing because it wasn't worth the calories? Seems legit to me!Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
As for when people say that your weight loss diet should be one you practice indefinitely, it makes complete sense. .
It makes sense, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. Most will make a user feel like they are wrong for wanting to cut out something. The fact is, there are 1000 ways to skin a cat.
And worked just fine
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In THAT situation, then by all means, educate them. I would as well, in fact, if they were being inaccurate or overly zealous and imprecise. When someone comes in with the latest Dr. Oz nonsense, sure, we should all carefully correct them.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
and no, fwiw, I don't think volume eating is the same as binge eating. I volume eat raw and cooked vegetables.
Alright I will play along.
If the poster on the green car forum has done extensive research, read multiple reviews of hybrid vehicles, done a cost benefit analysis of the pros of going hybrid vs electric, and was just looking for other people to discuss ways to optimize their mileage or whatever, then yes, I think it would be unnecessary for people to jump in and try to sway that person. Not saying that people wouldn't do it, but I think it would be less likely if the OP had solid logic and reasoning behind their decision.
If the poster said, "hey, Al Gore said we should do more for the environment so I'm going to switch to a hybrid vehicle" or "Cameron Diaz says '“It gets 52 miles per gallon. In the city. Isn’t that exciting?”or "I heard I can save $10,000/year in gas by driving a hybrid... then I think it is totally reasonable that people who have some experience, done some research, or even just have logical reasons to point out the fallacies in some of those claims, may want to comment on the thread.
I believe much of what you will find on MFP is posters like the latter, where they heard about the latest diet du jour (there's another thread going on about the Military Diet right now) where I think it is reasonable for people to come in and correct misinformation, even if this poster has made up his/her mind there are lots of lurkers who may benefit from counterpoints.
But if they say: I'm low carb and want new low carb breakfast ideas and they get "why not just do a calorie deficit", or pictures of ice cream....0 -
There are 16 tablespoons in a cup. 1/2 of a cup is usually ice cream serving size so a tablespoon is actually .125 of a serving
This is actually really enlightening information for me because for some reason I always had it in my head that there were 3 Tbsp in a quarter cup, so I would have said 12 Tbsp = 1 cup. I just looked it up to verify (not that I didn't believe you, just that I was surprised I was wrong all this time!). Trying to figure out if this news works out in my favor or not...
There are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon and four tablespoons in a quarter cup. The Hubster can't ever keep these ones straight, mainly because it's more than just a little silly.
And I think that is exactly where my memory got me in trouble. I'm pretty sure I remembered the 3tsp = 1tbsp from home ec class in middle school, and I'm not sure at what point I made the leap to 3Tbsp must equal 1/4 cup... but like I said, it may be something that has had some impact, I'm just too busy Mondaying to try to figure out how.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
and no, fwiw, I don't think volume eating is the same as binge eating. I volume eat raw and cooked vegetables.
Alright I will play along.
If the poster on the green car forum has done extensive research, read multiple reviews of hybrid vehicles, done a cost benefit analysis of the pros of going hybrid vs electric, and was just looking for other people to discuss ways to optimize their mileage or whatever, then yes, I think it would be unnecessary for people to jump in and try to sway that person. Not saying that people wouldn't do it, but I think it would be less likely if the OP had solid logic and reasoning behind their decision.
If the poster said, "hey, Al Gore said we should do more for the environment so I'm going to switch to a hybrid vehicle" or "Cameron Diaz says '“It gets 52 miles per gallon. In the city. Isn’t that exciting?”or "I heard I can save $10,000/year in gas by driving a hybrid... then I think it is totally reasonable that people who have some experience, done some research, or even just have logical reasons to point out the fallacies in some of those claims, may want to comment on the thread.
I believe much of what you will find on MFP is posters like the latter, where they heard about the latest diet du jour (there's another thread going on about the Military Diet right now) where I think it is reasonable for people to come in and correct misinformation, even if this poster has made up his/her mind there are lots of lurkers who may benefit from counterpoints.
Especially on detox and cleanse threads................................ o.o0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I agree with the second sentence wholeheartedly. As for the first, I used to naively believe that, and have been trying hard to be specific with how I respond. I still more often than not get the "I don't care if YOU want to eat Twinkies every day, but admit that you are just making excuses for your desire to eat in a way you KNOW is unhealthy." So I understand why people get impatient.I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge.
Yeah, I've seen (and it makes sense to me) just as many or more people say that getting over the idea that eating "bad" food made them bad and disgusting by accepting that it wasn't black and white allowed them to be able to have a little bit of something without going overboard (getting caught up in the shame cycle, I'd call it).
From my perspective as an emotional eater that makes sense--I know it has helped me a lot to get over the idea that I'm either "on the wagon" or "off the wagon" with food, that eating a little differently than intended doesn't mean I've screwed everything up and need to give up and start over later (and since this is depressing I might as well order pizza to make myself feel better, since being doomed to be fat at least means you can eat whatever you want).
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I would much rather have no ice cream than the one tablespoon of ice cream that actually fits in my goals - so no, I don't eat what I want because quantity is a big part of what I want, for some foods.
You however may be different - not everybody is the same.
LOL
a tablespoon of ice cream is .005% of a serving or something ridiculous like that….
A tablespoon is 15ml. A traditional scoop of ice cream is (or at least was) 50ml. A typical ice cream is ~2.5 calories/ml, so it's a difference of roughly 40 calories vs 120 calories.
I don't have 80 extra calories to blow on it, and a tablespoon would just be torturing myself, so....easier to abstain entirely.
Others are free to chose their own "right" answer, even if it involves detached-from-reality hyperbole....
:drinker:0 -
deleted because it was a stupid post 0
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
As for when people say that your weight loss diet should be one you practice indefinitely, it makes complete sense. .
It makes sense, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. Most will make a user feel like they are wrong for wanting to cut out something. The fact is, there are 1000 ways to skin a cat.
And in most cases, that person says "hey I've cut out x but I haven't lost any weight" or "I'm cutting out x so I can lose weight but I want to eat it so bad!"
So... what would be the purpose of patting them on the back and congratulating them on this choice if they aren't even happy with their dietary intake? Many people falsely assume that in order to lose weight they need to cut out particular foods, even if they like those foods. That's what I thought for years, and it didn't help me maintain long-term nor did it allow for a positive relationship with food. There was even a study about 15 years ago about attitudes towards food, North Americans (particularly women) had the most negative attitude and were the most likely to associate food with words like "fattening." So why categorize particular food as being bad for weight loss if they are totally fine to eat and must just be portioned out accordingly if the person still wants to eat them? Much better to tell people on a calorie-counting website that the only requirement for weight loss is to count calories, such that they don't need to go through hoops to lose weight.
btw: faculty.som.yale.edu/amywrzesniewski/documents/Attitudestofoodandtheroleoffood.pdf0 -
I would much rather have no ice cream than the one tablespoon of ice cream that actually fits in my goals - so no, I don't eat what I want because quantity is a big part of what I want, for some foods.
You however may be different - not everybody is the same.
Nowhere in this statement does he say a tablespoon equals a serving.
So he can only fit ~20 calories of ice cream into his diet every single time he'd potentially want ice cream?
That's right - unless I want to give something else up.
There's no getting around it - for someone who has eaten themselves into Fatdom, eating a restricting calorie diet REQUIRES giving up consuming a whole lot of somethings we'd rather be eating.He can't eat to maintenance or have a single day eating above maintenance if he really wants a 130 calorie serving of ice cream?
I don't WANT to eat to maintenance. Why should I have to? I don't need it mentally, and my body certainly doesn't need it biologically.
If someone else wants to slow down the trip to their goals by incorporating more treats, they have every right to do so. And for them, maybe, it's even the right choice. But let's be clear about the tradeoff here - it means accepting a longer journey to the destination in exchange for an immediate reward.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
In THAT situation, then by all means, educate them. I would as well, in fact, if they were being inaccurate or overly zealous and imprecise. When someone comes in with the latest Dr. Oz nonsense, sure, we should all carefully correct them.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
and no, fwiw, I don't think volume eating is the same as binge eating. I volume eat raw and cooked vegetables.
Alright I will play along.
If the poster on the green car forum has done extensive research, read multiple reviews of hybrid vehicles, done a cost benefit analysis of the pros of going hybrid vs electric, and was just looking for other people to discuss ways to optimize their mileage or whatever, then yes, I think it would be unnecessary for people to jump in and try to sway that person. Not saying that people wouldn't do it, but I think it would be less likely if the OP had solid logic and reasoning behind their decision.
If the poster said, "hey, Al Gore said we should do more for the environment so I'm going to switch to a hybrid vehicle" or "Cameron Diaz says '“It gets 52 miles per gallon. In the city. Isn’t that exciting?”or "I heard I can save $10,000/year in gas by driving a hybrid... then I think it is totally reasonable that people who have some experience, done some research, or even just have logical reasons to point out the fallacies in some of those claims, may want to comment on the thread.
I believe much of what you will find on MFP is posters like the latter, where they heard about the latest diet du jour (there's another thread going on about the Military Diet right now) where I think it is reasonable for people to come in and correct misinformation, even if this poster has made up his/her mind there are lots of lurkers who may benefit from counterpoints.
But if they say: I'm low carb and want new low carb breakfast ideas and they get "why not just do a calorie deficit", or pictures of ice cream....
Why are you hijacking a thread about personal experience by wrongly portraying what you perceive happens on other threads through your personal bias? You did this the other day on another thread too.
This thread is all about what's working for individuals.
It's great that you found what works for you.
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LovelyIvy466 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yeah this is pretty dead on for me- I have a pretty set diet BUT I don't cut anything out entirely, I just eat unhealthy things really rarely. It's not really a reaction to people who say they never eat certain items, I just know that if I were to set a rule for myself that I would never eat something, it would become the one thing I wanted. So nothing is off limits, but my focus is on the good things I can have and feel good about eating rather than the unhealthy things that I eat rarely.
Yep, this is me too. I do much better focusing on positives (eating foods that are good for me and within a particular calorie limit) than on NOT eating things. I probably end up eating a lot of foods about as much as if I cut them out and just "cheated" every once in a while, but that would make me feel worse.
I also think I personally eat better when I make it about actively trying to eat healthy (nutrient dense foods) and not mostly about simply cutting out things. But of course if you fill your diet with nutrient dense foods you end up with only a limited amount of room for other things, so it follows naturally from focusing on eating what I like.
I don't assume that people who eat what they like will want unlimited Twinkies and KFC or whatever, as that just seems odd to me as a way to eat.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
As for when people say that your weight loss diet should be one you practice indefinitely, it makes complete sense. .
It makes sense, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. Most will make a user feel like they are wrong for wanting to cut out something. The fact is, there are 1000 ways to skin a cat.
And in most cases, that person says "hey I've cut out x but I haven't lost any weight" or "I'm cutting out x so I can lose weight but I want to eat it so bad!"
So... what would be the purpose of patting them on the back and congratulating them on this choice if they aren't even happy with their dietary intake? Many people falsely assume that in order to lose weight they need to cut out particular foods, even if they like those foods. That's what I thought for years, and it didn't help me maintain long-term nor did it allow for a positive relationship with food. There was even a study about 15 years ago about attitudes towards food, North Americans (particularly women) had the most negative attitude and were the most likely to associate food with words like "fattening." So why categorize particular food as being bad for weight loss if they are totally fine to eat and must just be portioned out accordingly if the person still wants to eat them? Much better to tell people on a calorie-counting website that the only requirement for weight loss is to count calories, such that they don't need to go through hoops to lose weight.
btw: faculty.som.yale.edu/amywrzesniewski/documents/Attitudestofoodandtheroleoffood.pdf
Well, when I started, my diet consisted of probably 80% "junk" food. I needed to cut out some of that...period. Sorry, but I couldn't see myself eating 1/2 of a quarter pounder or 1/2 of an oatmeal cream pie. It was just much easier to cut them out. The issue with someone isn't that they cut it out, it's lack of knowledge. I knew that I could eat those things again eventually because I had learned how it worked, but at that time, they needed to be cut out.
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I guess for part of the discussion I'm back to this:Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Not disagreeing there. But that isn't how it always sounds. Since "eat what I want" is somewhat vague, and neutral with respect to quantities. And it assumes folks also "want" to eat a nutrient dense diet.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
And the other caveat is: you don't struggle with binge eating. Moderation for binge eaters is much more challenging. And for some, not worth the struggle.
I've never struggled with binge eating either. I just didn't know how to eat or how much I was eating.
I agree that people could be more specific with the way that they respond to the questions or the way that they correct inaccurate understandings about weight loss and that would avoid many of the arguments on here. I often feel that aside from a few zealots on both sides of the debates, if you did a blind comparison of the diaries of some of the "clean eaters" and some of the "IIFYM" folks, you would be hard pressed to say who is who.
I understand that for some binge eaters, moderation is very difficult, but I have also seen many people on here say that moderation was the only thing that helped them overcome their binging tendencies. Knowing that they could have it, even a little bit, each day, made the food have less power over them so that they did not need to binge. Again, just going by what I've seen some folks say, some I think even in this thread. I know there are others who say that that might work for some trigger foods, but then there are still other trigger foods that are not able to be moderated no matter what.
Also, I don't know if there is a difference or not, but I've seen a few people mentioning that they are "volume eaters" which I think Mr_Knight may have mentioned in this thread or another recently. Would that be considered the same as a binge eater? I don't think so, again, maybe semantics but to me, binge eating implies that there is a total lack of control over how much you are going to eat, that you can't stop yourself. To me, volume eating means that in order to be satisfied, you prefer a much larger volume of food, but it doesn't sound like there is the same issue with giving up control completely to the food.
Suppose someone posts on a green car forum and says: looking for other hybrid drivers. Or, I'm looking for hints to get the best mileage out of my hybrid. Wouldn't it be weird and counter productive if EVERY thread immediately had someone posting: you should drive an electric car instead. Followed by long arguments on the pros and cons of electric versus hybrid when all the OP wanted was to talk to other hybrid drivers?
But the context here is that someone posts "I am looking for clean eaters to share recipes and talk about healthy eating." Why are only "clean" eaters qualified to talk about healthy eating or recipes to that person, especially when what "clean" means varies dramatically from person to person. As I like to say, that I enjoy ice cream doesn't mean that my dinners are "contaminated" with ice cream, so why exclude people like me from the discussion? Many of us who aren't clean eaters have been cooking from whole foods a lot longer than many of the "clean" eaters in these parts and eat plenty of lean meats and veggies and all that.
I find the desire to segregate the discussions weird.
And no, I never encourage anyone to eat foods they don't want to eat. There are lots of foods I don't eat (although not because I cut them out, IMO).0 -
I would much rather have no ice cream than the one tablespoon of ice cream that actually fits in my goals - so no, I don't eat what I want because quantity is a big part of what I want, for some foods.
You however may be different - not everybody is the same.
LOL
a tablespoon of ice cream is .005% of a serving or something ridiculous like that….
A tablespoon is 15ml. A traditional scoop of ice cream is (or at least was) 50ml. A typical ice cream is ~2.5 calories/ml, so it's a difference of roughly 40 calories vs 120 calories.
I don't have 80 extra calories to blow on it, and a tablespoon would just be torturing myself, so....easier to abstain entirely.
Others are free to chose their own "right" answer, even if it involves detached-from-reality hyperbole....
:drinker:
That you say you can't even use 100 calories of your day on ice cream kinda makes me sad. And curious about how many calories your daily intake is.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »I would much rather have no ice cream than the one tablespoon of ice cream that actually fits in my goals - so no, I don't eat what I want because quantity is a big part of what I want, for some foods.
You however may be different - not everybody is the same.
LOL
a tablespoon of ice cream is .005% of a serving or something ridiculous like that….
A tablespoon is 15ml. A traditional scoop of ice cream is (or at least was) 50ml. A typical ice cream is ~2.5 calories/ml, so it's a difference of roughly 40 calories vs 120 calories.
I don't have 80 extra calories to blow on it, and a tablespoon would just be torturing myself, so....easier to abstain entirely.
Others are free to chose their own "right" answer, even if it involves detached-from-reality hyperbole....
:drinker:
That you say you can't even use 100 calories of your day on ice cream kinda makes me sad.
Why? I use those 100 calories for something I want more. Yeah, I *love* ice cream - but I have fitness and health goals that are more important to me than a few moments of transitory gastromic pleasure.
To me this a cause for happiness, not sadness.
0 -
The OP didn't even ask for only clean eating discussion, and even said they are trying to incorporate their binge foods into their daily plan, and asked everyone else what works for them, so why is everyone even arguing? LOL
For me, I'm weighing/logging everything, even the little no-no's that weren't planned like the two MnM's when I packed the kids' Easter baskets, etc. I work planned yummies into my day, so ice cream and chocolate milk actually do make my menu. I focus primarily on how I'm going to get around 30g/protein in at each meal, and the rest just falls into place for the most part. I find that eating heavy on the protein leaves very little room in my belly for the excessive carbs that trigger my over-eating tendencies and contributed to my weight gain.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »beachlandia wrote: »I eat "whatever" I want as long as it fits in my calories. But this means I have also cut out or greatly reduced amounts of high calorie foods. Like, I COULD fit a 680-calorie giant chocolate muffin from Costco into my day, and it's not that I don't enjoy those muffins anymore... but I'd much rather use those calories for other things. And I guess that makes me eat "healthier" (which is a subjective term) because I'll eat things like chicken breast and fruit instead of a muffin.
This.
It's not really "whatever you want" if there is a constraint around it.
Agreed.
Folks should be saying: I incorporate treats and favorite foods into my calorie and macro counting routine.
Because when you look at some of their logs (I can think of two "I eat whatever" people in particular) they eat a pretty set routine of proteins and veg. With some chocolate or what not thrown in.
Yes but that is the distinction that most people miss. Usually when people say, "I eat whatever" it is in response to people who are posting that they have cut out or severely restricted a food or particular macros in order to lose weight. The "I eat what I want" is meant to explain to the poster that you don't have to cut out entire food groups, you can continue to eat all the foods you like, in moderation.
The strawman assumption then comes out that because these people are saying there is nothing wrong with donuts, that they must be eating nothing but donuts all day long.
For the record, I am firmly in camp moderation. I still eat pizza, donuts, gelato and wine and have lost 30lbs doing so. I don't foresee any issue with maintaining the weight loss and sustaining this lifestyle for the foreseeable future. I don't know if I will be logging when I'm in my 80s, but I don't really see any reason to stop anytime soon.
PS - I've never struggled with binge eating or emotional eating, just wanted to provide that context to the discussion since OP specifically mentioned this.
As for when people say that your weight loss diet should be one you practice indefinitely, it makes complete sense. .
It makes sense, but that doesn't mean it's the only way. Most will make a user feel like they are wrong for wanting to cut out something. The fact is, there are 1000 ways to skin a cat.
And in most cases, that person says "hey I've cut out x but I haven't lost any weight" or "I'm cutting out x so I can lose weight but I want to eat it so bad!"
So... what would be the purpose of patting them on the back and congratulating them on this choice if they aren't even happy with their dietary intake? Many people falsely assume that in order to lose weight they need to cut out particular foods, even if they like those foods. That's what I thought for years, and it didn't help me maintain long-term nor did it allow for a positive relationship with food. There was even a study about 15 years ago about attitudes towards food, North Americans (particularly women) had the most negative attitude and were the most likely to associate food with words like "fattening." So why categorize particular food as being bad for weight loss if they are totally fine to eat and must just be portioned out accordingly if the person still wants to eat them? Much better to tell people on a calorie-counting website that the only requirement for weight loss is to count calories, such that they don't need to go through hoops to lose weight.
btw: faculty.som.yale.edu/amywrzesniewski/documents/Attitudestofoodandtheroleoffood.pdf
Well, when I started, my diet consisted of probably 80% "junk" food. I needed to cut out some of that...period. Sorry, but I couldn't see myself eating 1/2 of a quarter pounder or 1/2 of an oatmeal cream pie. It was just much easier to cut them out. The issue with someone isn't that they cut it out, it's lack of knowledge. I knew that I could eat those things again eventually because I had learned how it worked, but at that time, they needed to be cut out.
My diet also used to be way more "junk" food than it is now. I didn't cut it out, just reduced the intake. If I had thought that I had to cut it out again like I did 5 years ago, I probably would just keep repeating the same cycle I went through when I first lost weight.
I find it much more enjoyable to still eat "junk" food while losing weight even if it means eating it in a smaller portion. I also had to learn to eat fruit in a smaller portion, just because I used to binge on fruit doesn't mean I wanted to cut it out. So if someone posts about cutting food out because they seemingly think it's the only way they will lose weight (like when people say that you have to "eat clean" to lose weight) then I'll continue to tell them that it's not necessary, they can simply reduce how much of it they eat while monitoring calories. If after trial and error they find that eating ice cream every day just isn't working for their satiety and goals, then they can cut that intake down to a few times a week if they still want to be able to eat it. If they decide to just eat it a few times a month, that is fine. They have still learned that the item can still be consumed, they just need to find a portioning that works for them (and yes, keeping food within one's diet doesn't mean that it has to be consumed daily. I haven't eaten cheese curds in a while because the store that sells the good ones has wonky hours that don't give me a chance to get there when it's open right now, but I still consider them as something that I eat in my diet. I just don't eat it daily).0
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